New Smash Bros for WiiU

[JordantheGiant]

Just in case a visual helps, y'know. That's 44 slots, 48 characters. All rather reasonable choices. Obviously some notable characters are left out. K. Rool? Medusa? Burger Knight? Add them and that's 51. It's an increase of 12, which is one less than the increase we saw from Melee to Brawl, and two less than the increase we saw from 64 to Melee. Perfectly reasonable, I'd say.

Very reasonable roster I'd say. Just curious, why no Starfy?

 

[JavaCroc]

Very reasonable roster I'd say. Just curious, why no Starfy?

It was only an example roster. It's not the roster he's necessarily predicting or wanting. He was just showing how a roster of 48 characters (including transformations) is reasonable.

But even if it's only an example, it would be a decent SSB4 roster.

 

[Oasis_S]

Very reasonable roster I'd say. Just curious, why no Starfy?

Mostly I just keep forgetting about him, lol. The only thing going against him is that supposed "rivalry" between Kirby and Starfy, right? Also, I'm not sure of his moveset potential. Would his normals be much more than spinning around...? Just doesn't seem very interesting in my (uneducated in the ways of Starfy) opinion. I know Mac could only PUNCH, but... there's loads more you could do with that than just spinning, lol. Actually has LIMBS to work with. Plus, I'd say Mac could have an interesting GIMMICK about him. Oh, but I'm rambling.

 

[Deleted member]

I know I'm a little late to respond, but you've got a point. Ridley, Little Mac, and King K. Rool are the newcomers for SSB4, in probably just that order I named them. I've already explained Ridley. Little Mac's revival and retro games puts him up there with Pit as a character - plus, he was probably one of the more popular characters wanted for an considered for Brawl. And Donkey Kong - the franchise responsible for creating Mario - has the historical significance and the series revival that should give it another character - and despite his lack of relevance currently, K. Rool is that character.

Afterwards, it should be noticeable to everyone that we debate and have set opinions for, against, or uncaring for the inclusion of any other characters.

We can also throw Isaac into this as well. Almost no one oppose his inclusion (I have yet to see any) and he also receives very high demands, although if we get 3DS and Wii-U exclusives, it's questionable whenever or not he'll appear on the Wii-U.

Dang, I forgot Little Mac.

My suggestion is that you swap an Advance Wars rep in your Brawl roster with him.

I doubt SSB4 is dying. However, I don't think losing Smash Bros. would completely stop Nintendo in their tracks, although it would greatly hinder them. We'd still have all their other franchises and inevitable games to enjoy.

That's true and I'm probably going to buy a Wii-U regardless of whenever or not Smash gets cancelled as I'm confident it'll be a good system, but most core gamers don't trust Nintendo to make quality products nearly as much as we do and many of them consider SSB4 to be the last beacon of hope for core gamers.

I don't know man, "that" spot? perhaps the fifth gen spot. Though I play and love the hell out of lucario, I bet that neither he nor jigglypuff are secured.

Its anyone's game at this point (Deoxys is still a BAMF)

You raise a good point. For all we know, we could see Scrafty as the fifth-gen rep, although that's probably not happening.

So why again isn't Krystal on the map? I seem to remember her being a popular choice for Brawl, and while her popularity inevitable waned over time, I don't think it would be low enough to bar her as a potential newcomer.

It's not just that. Krystal has major relevancy issues, has a large hate fan base in Japan, lots of people assume that all Krystal supporters are furries, and is not as important as Falco, Wolf, or Fox.

 

[OmegaXXII]

@Oasis: where the heck is Black Knight?

 

[Chris the Ripper]

How many years till SSB4 comes out?

 

[Oasis_S]

@Oasis: where the heck is Black Knight?

WELL, I still think he's pretty unlikely. He's more of a "wishlist" guy than "prediction" for me. Still, if I could add more characters, it'd probably be King K. Rool, Medusa, Burger Knight (yay villains, lol) and Starfy. ...Eh. That's 52. Whatever.

Don't want to say Tingle or Paper Mario, since those series don't need more than 4 slots.

Also, I want to say Masked Man and Sukapon, but that'd be a lot of bias on my part, lolol. u3u

 

[Greave]

Krystal has major relevancy issues, has a large hate fan base in Japan, lots of people assume that all Krystal supporters are furries, and is not as important as Falco, Wolf, or Fox.

I wouldn't say she's irrelevant. She's still probably the 4th most important (feasible for Smash) character in Star Fox, despite the fact that the newest SF game does not feature her. However, I wasn't aware of the overseas hate for her, which could be a damper on that. I guess it boils down to whether or not Star Fox needs another representative; their rep is pretty heavy already.

BTW, all Krystal supporters ARE furries. There's no getting around that.

 

[Chris the Ripper]

How many ****ing years till SSB4 comes out?

 

[JordantheGiant]

How many ****ing years till SSB4 comes out?

Its speculated to come out late 2013/2014.

 

[Chris the Ripper]

Its speculated to come out late 2013/2014.

See?Thats not that far away.(assuming that we live past 2012) Continue your predictions.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Finally chilled.


Ok. So in the end, no franchise is too big, no franchise is too small. At the end of the day, the developers have the final say on character inclusions. We can only more or less predict their likeability.


Random question:

Which are the most popular requested villains so far? And in what specific order?

 

[OmegaXXII]

WELL, I still think he's pretty unlikely. He's more of a "wishlist" guy than "prediction" for me. Still, if I could add more characters, it'd probably be King K. Rool, Medusa, Burger Knight (yay villains, lol) and Starfy. ...Eh. That's 52. Whatever.

Don't want to say Tingle or Paper Mario, since those series don't need more than 4 slots.

Also, I want to say Masked Man and Sukapon, but that'd be a lot of bias on my part, lolol. u3u

I wouldn't really consider Burger Knight as a wishlist character, he is in a bigger league than say King Hippo or Waluigi.

IMO his chances are somewhat good since he is after all the main antagonist from Ike's game, plus Ike will probably return so I could probably see him as the 3rd FE rep alongside Ike and Marth.

His chances of course would considerably drop if we indeed to get a new FE lord announced and represented such the way Roy did in Melee, but other than that I think it's safe to say that he will at least be considered and isn't necessarly out of the picture just yet.

Tbh Masked man really doesn't stand a chance compared to The Black Knight, The Zelda series already has sufficient reps and with Gharaim coming around in the new game; he is the most probably if we indeed where to get a 5th Zelda rep.

As for Medusa, shame on you!!

She definetly has realistic chances considering she probably going to be the main antagonist villain from Kid Icarus Uprising, though if she doesn't I could easily see Palutena in as well, heck Magnus would be awesome.

Random question:

Which are the most popular requested villains so far? And in what specific order?

Well let's see:

•Ridley
•Medusa
•Bowser Jr.
•King K. Rool
•The Black Knight
•Mewtwo (sort of)

In that order, I might be missing some so don't bash me lol, I think those are the most probable villains for Smash IMO.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Well let's see:

•The Black Knight
•Ridley
•King K. Rool
•Mewtwo (sort of)
•Medusa
•Bowser Jr.

I might be missing some so don't bash me lol, I think those are the most probable villains for Smash IMO.

The order is questionable. But I agree those are pretty much the most mentioned names around here. :D Thanks.

 

[Deleted member]

This is my revamp on my essay on Victini.

What do you think of this essay in comparison to the last one? I'll make sure PM nLiM8d about this before sending this to other sites.

@shinhed-echi: According to GameFAQs, the order goes like this from most requested to least requested:

- Ridley
- King K. Rool
- Bowser Jr.
- Mewtwo
- Medusa

All of them have received high requests to be playable in SSB4. I think all have a fair shot of being playable (Mewtwo's chances are questionable, but still has a shot).

 

[OmegaXXII]

The order is questionable. But I agree those are pretty much the most mentioned names around here. :D Thanks.

Lol.. That wasn't in order, look at my post again I edit it for you.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Heh... who would've known MEDUSA would be 2nd only after almighty RIDLEY. :D

I thought people were saying "Kid Icarus doesn't deserve a second rep" all around. Guess these people aren't too vocal, or deep inside they do want Medusa.

Anyway, this was a helpful confirmation, so thanks.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol.. That wasn't in order, look at my post again I edit it for you.

I don't think that's the order. Ridley is certainly the most wanted among non-trolls, but King K. Rool should be second because I also see next to no opposition for his inclusion. Even Ridley fans has to fight off trolls (Although non-trolls like us almost unanimously agree that he should get in). Medusa and Bowser Jr. are certainly highly requested, but they receive some oppositions as well as to a lesser extend, Mewtwo. Take Black Knight off the list since he has low requests.

 

[Oasis_S]

I wouldn't really consider Burger Knight as a wishlist character, he is in a bigger league than say King Hippo or Waluigi.

IMO his chances are somewhat good since he is after all the main antagonist from Ike's game, plus Ike will probably return so I could probably see him as the 3rd FE rep alongside Ike and Marth.

His chances of course would considerably drop if we indeed to vet a new FE lord announced and represented such the way Roy did in Melee, but other than that I think it's safe to say that he will at least be considered and isn't necessarly out of the picture just yet.

Tbh Masked man really doesn't stand a chance compared to The Black Knight, The Zelda series already has sufficient reps and with Gharaim coming around in the new game; he is the most probably if we indeed where to get a 5th Zelda rep.

As for Medusa, shame on you!!

She definetly has realistic chances considering she probably going to be the main antagonist villain from Kid Icarus Uprising, though if she doesn't I could easily see Palutena in as well, heck Magnus would be awesome.

I'd agree that Burger Knight is the most likely FE character (at this point), but he's still just not in the league of other character suggestions.

Also, Masked Man is from Earthbound, you silly goose. >8O I've been wanting Ness to be CUT, and have Masked Man take his place, lol. BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT IS A LOAD OF BIAS ON MY PART, so I'm not saying that is going to happen at all.

And the only reason people suggest Medusa is because of Uprising, and assuming Sakurai would show it some favor because he's the one behind it. I mean, yeah, that's definitely something. But you'd also have to consider he might show some humility about it. And does Kid Icarus really need another character? I would say the series is NOT deserving of a second rep. I would concede that Medusa is probably the most iconic of all "retro villains." So that's something too.

I mean, I support her and all, but I wouldn't say she's likely. She's pretty much just a token female villain at this point.

 

[BKupa666]

I agree with the villain suggestions with the exception of Medusa. Because her game hasn't even been released yet, I don't think she will have had time to build up as big a fanbase as the other villains, due to her lack of real exposure other than in trailers. She has a few things in her favor, potential and relevancy among them, but more things against her, IMO.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I would disagree on Medusa being the most iconic "retro villain".

I'd say that either goes to King Hippo or Mike Tyson, because I bet most people didn't get too far in Kid Icarus. That game is really hard. I'd say it's harder than Punch Out, and this coming from a platformer junkie.

I have surprisingly seen a good reception on Medusa though. And heck even I think she'd be cool. Do I think Kid Icarus needs another rep? NO. Would I complain if we get Medusa? No, in fact, that'd be pretty cool. I'd feel guilty, but I'd find it really cool.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree with the villain suggestions with the exception of Medusa. Because her game hasn't even been released yet, I don't think she will have had time to build up as big a fanbase as the other villains, due to her lack of real exposure other than in trailers. She has a few things in her favor, potential and relevancy among them, but more things against her, IMO.

Her fan base has been building up since Kid Icarus: Uprising announcements. I am very curious to see all your arguments against her inclusion.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I have no arguments with Medusa, but Palutena should be considered first.

 

[Oasis_S]

Goodness, man. I know. I could seriously not get past the second level of Kid Icarus no matter how much I tried. Not to brag but I'm, THE GUY.

You're probably right about King Hippo... Maybe I should say "most viable" retro villain. Still, we don't even know what she can do in Uprising. Although turning opponents into stone (like turning them into Kirby's down special, fall down A SHORT DISTANCE, effected by inclines, and can be grabbed) would be really cool. Does she even do that in the games? Lol.

@Palutena: No way.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Goodness, man. I know. I could seriously not get past the second level of Kid Icarus no matter how much I tried. Not to brag but I'm, THE GUY.

You're probably right about King Hippo... Maybe I should say "most viable" retro villain. Still, we don't even know what she can do in Uprising. Although turning opponents into stone (like turning them into Kirby's down special, fall down A SHORT DISTANCE, effected by inclines, and can be grabbed) would be really cool. Does she even do that in the games? Lol.

Well, that could certainly explain all of Palutena's centurions turned to stone and placed all over the dang GAME. For you to waste your precious hammers on. XD


I have a moveset in mind. I might put it up sometime later.

 

[Oasis_S]

I have a moveset in mind. I might put it up sometime later.

Better contain some snake hair attacks, yo.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I don't think that's the order. Ridley is certainly the most wanted among non-trolls, but King K. Rool should be second because I also see next to no opposition for his inclusion. Even Ridley fans has to fight off trolls (Although non-trolls like us almost unanimously agree that he should get in). Medusa and Bowser Jr. are certainly highly requested, but they receive some oppositions as well as to a lesser extend, Mewtwo. Take Black Knight off the list since he has low requests.

Even though the Black Knight isn't a highly requested character compared to the other five; I believe he was at least worth mentioning, sure you can argue about his chances being low, but you can't rule him out just yet, if Sakurai is known for something it's to surprise and give us the unexpected so I wouldn't rule him out just yet.

As for King K. Rool, it's agreed that he's deserving enough but don't forget, he also faces opposition from Dixie Kong who Sakurai actually considered at one point during development, what it means is that Sakurai might want to bring back the idea of Dixie to Smash 4, of course this is only saying if she were a solo character which we all know she's likely to be in a duo with Diddy Kong, so yes K. Rool can be considered as deserving but his absence from DK Returns is what's hurting his chances ATM.

As for Medusa, remember she will be in the upcoming Kid Icarus game and unlike K. Rool, she doesn't face oppossition from such a character from the series, maybe Palutena but not as much.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I think Krystal is the biggest villain of all.

Spoiler

She played with Fox's heart, and she then had the gall to switch over to Star Wolf. She single handedly disbanded Star Fox. She's the Yoko Ono of the franchise. Who can ever beat that? :D

I'm only joking by the way.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't think that's the order. Ridley is certainly the most wanted among non-trolls, but King K. Rool should be second because I also see next to no opposition for his inclusion. Even Ridley fans has to fight off trolls (Although non-trolls like us almost unanimously agree that he should get in). Medusa and Bowser Jr. are certainly highly requested, but they receive some oppositions as well as to a lesser extend, Mewtwo. Take Black Knight off the list since he has low requests.

There's pretty much no reason for why Ridley can't be playable. So he's a giant, so what, Bowser has been giant-sized himself, and he's been playable since Melee. Being too big is a lame excuse.

K. Rool needs some fame himself. Although not in DKCR, K. Rool did appear in Mario Super Sluggers, so he's not completely forgotten.

Bowser Jr. has become a common character in the mainstream Mario titles, so seeing him take the battlefield should be a no-brainer.

Black Knight pretty much has no chance. He may have been Ike's enemy, but other than that, not much is going for him.

 

[BKupa666]

Well, there is the potential roadblock that the sidekick gets added before the villain, in which case Magnus/Palutena gets the slot over Medusa despite being inferior characters (IMO).

And in terms of her fanbase, I think this is a case of exaggeration by her supporters (I'm indifferent, as long as she doesn't usurp a slot from a more deserving franchise newcomer). Her fanbase has only really kicked up after this summer's E3 (a little over a month ago)...no one was suggesting Medusa when she was first revealed at E3 2010, or because she was a retro female villain from the 80's. Even now, I doubt many people would even care about Medusa if Sakurai weren't in charge of Kid Icarus, which is where I think she draws the majority of her chances from. The roster will be decided in October this year, before Kid Icarus gets released (I believe...), so I doubt Medusa will garner that large of a fanbase outside message boards or hardcore fans who watch E3 and see trailers (the audience Sakurai -doesn't- cater to, in other words), or much of a large fanbase compared to fellow villains Ridley and K. Rool.

I don't want to attempt to second-guess Sakurai, because of his apparent instability, but if I had to guess, I would think he'd be a bit more humble toward his creations this go around, due to him pimping Kirby hardcore in Brawl, just like he apparently made Melee Kirby a bad character, because he was so good in SSB64, and didn't add Dedede to Melee because of his humble attitude.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I think Krystal is the biggest villain of all.

Spoiler

She played with Fox's heart, and she then had the gall to switch over to Star Wolf. She single handedly disbanded Star Fox. She's the Yoko Ono of the franchise. Who can ever beat that? :D

I'm only joking by the way.

Glad you were joking about this son!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Glad you were joking about this son!

Especially considering that Star Fox Command has multiple endings. Of course, I never played the game, and I tend to think of the game as not being canon, because of those multiple endings.

 

[Pickle]

ive just nyan cat for 9 hours!!! :D

 

[Oasis_S]

Well, there is the potential roadblock that the sidekick gets added before the villain, in which case Magnus/Palutena gets the slot over Medusa despite being inferior characters (IMO).

And in terms of her fanbase, I think this is a case of exaggeration by her supporters (I'm indifferent, as long as she doesn't usurp a slot from a more deserving franchise newcomer). Her fanbase has only really kicked up after this summer's E3 (a little over a month ago)...no one was suggesting Medusa when she was first revealed at E3 2010, or because she was a retro female villain from the 80's. Even now, I doubt many people would even care about Medusa if Sakurai weren't in charge of Kid Icarus, which is where I think she draws the majority of her chances from. The roster will be decided in October this year, before Kid Icarus gets released (I believe...), so I doubt Medusa will garner that large of a fanbase outside message boards or hardcore fans who watch E3 and see trailers (the audience Sakurai -doesn't- cater to, in other words), or much of a large fanbase compared to fellow villains Ridley and K. Rool.

I don't want to attempt to second-guess Sakurai, because of his apparent instability, but if I had to guess, I would think he'd be a bit more humble toward his creations this go around, due to him pimping Kirby hardcore in Brawl, just like he apparently made Melee Kirby a bad character, because he was so good in SSB64, and didn't add Dedede to Melee because of his humble attitude.

If I may just... QFT.

Also I wonder how Wolf is going to look this time around. With Star Fox 64 3D, he might revert back to this original design. And be British, lol.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Back then, I was rooting for Medusa, but only when people wanted the Eggplant Wizard, a generic enemy, to be Pit's rival.

 

[Pickle]

Back then, I was rooting for Medusa, but only when people wanted the Eggplant Wizard, a generic enemy, to be Pit's rival.

I was one of those people... boy, now we got beef >:O

 

[BKupa666]

Back then, I was rooting for Medusa, but only when people wanted the Eggplant Wizard, a generic enemy, to be Pit's rival.

On the subject of Eggplant Wizard, I am not advocating for him in any way, shape or form, but he does have plenty of moveset potential (despite this one being highly needlessly complicated). I think he'd be the coolest Kid Icarus newcomer, but he's blatantly outclassed by Medusa, Palutena and Magnus for the slot. Is he even in Uprising?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Black Knight pretty much has no chance. He may have been Ike's enemy, but other than that, not much is going for him.

That's a big understatement you mentioned there, read my prevous post, god this is making write an essay over him, people seem to underestimate this guy alot, he freakin has a chance no matter how low there are, enough said, if you don't like him that's fine but don't say he has "no chance" because he clearly does even if they are low.

 

[Oasis_S]

Wouldn't Eggplant Wizard make a great Assist Trophy? Turning people into eggplants for a short period of time and all. :I

 

[Barbasol]

Black Knight pretty much has no chance. He may have been Ike's enemy, but other than that, not much is going for him.

Not true. That seems to imply Black Knight was merely a boss battle Ike fought on several occasions. Bear in mind, that Zelgius (Black Knight's true identity) was the commander of Bengion's Central Army, together with the guise of Black Knight, I'd argue he's the deepest character who was developed throughout the Tellius Series. Moreso than Ike or Michaiah actually. (Those of you who finished with the final true ending know all about this).

Anyway, aside from story importance... Fire Emblem had two reps when it was Japan-Only, it's far more popular now, western releases sell more than Japan-Only, so that franchise boomed. It's characters are also VERY rich in fighter potential. Black Knight stands as the most likely newcomer. He's rivalled only by Lyn (who had a brief window of popularity, as why she's the assist trophy. She's since fallen by the wayside, only mentioned by non-FE speculators). Those who know Fire Emblem realize in the grand scheme, she's not important, being one of three main characters in her game, and being the primary in the tutorial section only. Caeda is the other contender, who's from Marth's series as the deuteragonist, she is Marth's wife later in the series. Drawbacks? Well, she's a cavalry fighter. It's integral to her fighting style, taking her off horseback would be like stripping Dedede of his hammer, yes it could work, but it's not how he fights.

The only drawback? If Fire Emblem gets no newcomers. Then obviously, no. But if they do, count on Black Knight.

There's also no chance of a new Fire Emblem coming out soon enough for a Lord to arrive. The newest Fire Emblem 12 has yet to be localized (Expect late august), which is only a remake of Marth's famicom game.