New Sheik Tech NLC (Needle Ledge Cancel)

[saviorslegacy]

Alright so first off let formally apologize to the community for not providing any pictures, videos or gifs. I do not have access to youtube or any ability to upload any pictures or any kind of media due to PII. So please bare with me and my descriptions. If anyone would like to volunteer to make a gif it would be much appreciated. Please do not post videos in the thread for me to use beacuse it will be blocked. A video link would work though.


Alright, so now onto the tech. There are 2 different kinds of NLC. The first is the grounded version. So I will refer to this as the gNLC. The second is the air version. This will be refered to as the aNLC.


gNLC
I have a video on my old youtube channel showing the gNLC. Basically if you throw needles as you approach the ledge and then fall off you will cancel all of your ending lag and then you can combo into bouncing fish. It requires the opponent to be lined up perfectly with the ledge which is why it isn't used even though a lot of people know about it. On top of all of that it doesn't get much love on platforms due to the opponent having to be lined up with the platform.
Comboing into another needle isn't as effective because usually they are up and away from the stage. Which means you can't get the right angle. On top of that most enemies can just recover at this point making it pretty much a pointless endevour.

That is my opinion on the gNLC. It has a little bit of potential but it is just out shined by other options. It would look nice in a combo video though.


aNLC
Now this is the reason for this post. I discovered that you can cancel a needle thrown in the air by sliding off of a platform during your landing lag. This has both potential on platforms and as gimping. You can throw a needle while landing on the ledge of a platfrom and cancel it immediatly. If you fast fall this can lead into a grab, DA or an air attack.... also bouncing fish beacuse their knock back angle is better to your position.
My personal favorite use of this is a double needle gimp at the ledge. You can aNLC> jump> Needle. Depending on the percentage of the enemy it could be a true combo. I do not have the ability to test this, I apologize.
This will help us gimp low recovering enemies like Ike.

Alright aaaaaaand... discuss.

I wanted to do them a while ago, and I have some extra gifs in here for another thread, but you made me ignore my schedule and make new gifs as well as post older ones. Well yea.

Basic, canceled into bouncing fish.

Aerial, Nair followup (I missed the true combo, it just shows how little the lag is)

Aerial, then what I call powerfall (edge cancel to fastfall) into jab

Now, SL said the Grounded was useless, however there is an application that always works when theres an edge, as it requires your oppnent to be on the same platform as you... Doing the whole thin REVERSE.

Basic on a platform canceld into bouncing fish.

Now what to do with this? Well, it allows you to run away from an opponent, then suddenly turn around, hit him and true combo into a bouncing fish.

Reverse actually hitting someone

Yea thats basicly all I've got. Sorry I'm a bit in a huurry so my tiping is pretty off i guess, well whatever, I'l llet pictures speak. Enjoy ~

 

[Jaxas]

Alright so first off let formally apologize to the community for not providing any pictures, videos or gifs. I do not have access to youtube or any ability to upload any pictures or any kind of media due to PII. So please bare with me and my descriptions. If anyone would like to volunteer to make a gif it would be much appreciated. Please do not post videos in the thread for me to use beacuse it will be blocked. A video link would work though.


Alright, so now onto the tech. There are 2 different kinds of NLC. The first is the grounded version. So I will refer to this as the gNLC. The second is the air version. This will be refered to as the aNLC.


gNLC
I have a video on my old youtube channel showing the gNLC. Basically if you throw needles as you approach the ledge and then fall off you will cancel all of your ending lag and then you can combo into bouncing fish. It requires the opponent to be lined up perfectly with the ledge which is why it isn't used even though a lot of people know about it. On top of all of that it doesn't get much love on platforms due to the opponent having to be lined up with the platform.
Comboing into another needle isn't as effective because usually they are up and away from the stage. Which means you can't get the right angle. On top of that most enemies can just recover at this point making it pretty much a pointless endevour.

That is my opinion on the gNLC. It has a little bit of potential but it is just out shined by other options. It would look nice in a combo video though.


aNLC
Now this is the reason for this post. I discovered that you can cancel a needle thrown in the air by sliding off of a platform during your landing lag. This has both potential on platforms and as gimping. You can throw a needle while landing on the ledge of a platfrom and cancel it immediatly. If you fast fall this can lead into a grab, DA or an air attack.... also bouncing fish beacuse their knock back angle is better to your position.
My personal favorite use of this is a double needle gimp at the ledge. You can gNLC> jump> Needle. Depending on the percentage of the enemy it could be a true combo. I do not have the ability to test this, I apologize.
This will help us gimp low recovering enemies like Ike.

Alright aaaaaaand... discuss.

Well then...
onwards, to the lab!

I'll see if I can get a gif made sometime soon, but if so expect 30fps heavily-interlaced 480p (so low) quality at best.

EDIT:
To clarify, does the 'Grounded' variant send a needle at the diagonal angle, or straight ahead?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Well then...
onwards, to the lab!

I'll see if I can get a gif made sometime soon, but if so expect 30fps heavily-interlaced 480p (so low) quality at best.

EDIT:
To clarify, does the 'Grounded' variant send a needle at the diagonal angle, or straight ahead?

It is grounded needles so straight.

 

[Jaxas]

It is grounded needles so straight.

Alright, and does it work with any charge level?
(I haven't been able to pull it off so far, just wanting to make sure I'm doing it right)

 

[saviorslegacy]

Yes, although you have to input it twice if you are not fully charged. For the sake of learning the tech use fully charged needles at first.

Yeah have fun with that timing.

 

[Zankoku]

It's pretty much applying the concept of ledge canceling to Needle Storm. As long as you are able to land and immediately slide off of a ledge, the special's ground recovery will be negated by falling state.

The important thing is finding what can be done with it... ledge canceling a falling Needle Storm on a platform might allow for quick followups like
needles -> falling fair -> grab
Similar to what you'd be able to pull off in Melee due to Needle Storm outright having no specific landing recovery in that game.

 

[Metallinatus]

For a moment I thought they were making a new Sheik tech DLC

My personal favorite use of this is a double needle gimp at the ledge. You can gNLC> jump> Needle.

Don't you mean aNLC> jump> Needle? Or are you talking about combining both aNLC and gNLC there?

 

[Jaxas]

So I've gotten it exactly... once, with fully charged needles.

Uncharged, however, seems to actually be easier; it just cancels into an aerial charge (which you can then Needle Fidget out of; probably does this because I'm running at the ledge and mashing B )

Seems really neat, though

EDIT:
And as I post I start getting the full-charged variant reliably; awesome.
It seems like it cancels into a ledge-grab if you're not holding down (at least on Omega Battlefield's left ledge; haven't really tested anywhere else), so it can potentially Trump too

EDIT #2:
Even when I hit B only twice, it still cancels the throw into an Aerial Needle Charge; doesn't seem to be based on mashing B after all.
Hooray for Needle Fidgeting!

 

[saviorslegacy]

Don't you mean aNLC> jump> Needle? Or are you talking about combining both aNLC and gNLC there?

Oops.. I meant aNLC.

It's pretty much applying the concept of ledge canceling to Needle Storm. As long as you are able to land and immediately slide off of a ledge, the special's ground recovery will be negated by falling state.

The important thing is finding what can be done with it... ledge canceling a falling Needle Storm on a platform might allow for quick followups like
needles -> falling fair -> grab
Similar to what you'd be able to pull off in Melee due to Needle Storm outright having no specific landing recovery in that game.

Pretty much. I just don't have the proper resources to test and report right now. Sooooo everything is kinda up in the air.

 

[sadn3ss]

what is the main point of this tech what does it accomplish? does anyone have any gifs to make sure im doing it right

 

[?.?]

My main interest is if it can get people during the 2 frames of ledge vulnerability... Super safe mixup
Other than that it sounds super useful on any stage with platforms

 

[saviorslegacy]

If you want to know if you are doing it right then follow this:
aNLC on the ledge of the stage and don't perform anything. You should hear Sheik throw a Needle, land with a dust cloud and then grab the ledge.

 

[iAft3rbang]

@ Wasserwipf We need some gifs !!!!

 

[_Tree]

You guys always find this stuff when it's 3AM over here, meaning I have to wait till morning to test it out :<<

But it sounds cool, definitely want to try it. Everytime I think Sheik is out of tech you always find something else Saviors.

 

[Jaxas]

I have gifs, but I've been trying to upload them for over 24 hours now; damn do I hate my internet sometimes...

They're not even large files or anything

 

[Wasserwipf]

@ Wasserwipf We need some gifs !!!!

I wanted to do them a while ago, and I have some extra gifs in here for another thread, but you made me ignore my schedule and make new gifs as well as post older ones. Well yea.

Basic, canceled into bouncing fish.

Aerial, Nair followup (I missed the true combo, it just shows how little the lag is)

Aerial, then what I call powerfall (edge cancel to fastfall) into jab

Now, SL said the Grounded was useless, however there is an application that always works when theres an edge, as it requires your oppnent to be on the same platform as you... Doing the whole thin REVERSE.

Basic on a platform canceld into bouncing fish.

Now what to do with this? Well, it allows you to run away from an opponent, then suddenly turn around, hit him and true combo into a bouncing fish.

Reverse actually hitting someone

Yea thats basicly all I've got. Sorry I'm a bit in a huurry so my tiping is pretty off i guess, well whatever, I'l llet pictures speak. Enjoy ~

 

[TCL | Harp & Dagger]

I wanted to do them a while ago, and I have some extra gifs in here for another thread, but you made me ignore my schedule and make new gifs as well as post older ones. Well yea.

Basic, canceled into bouncing fish.

Aerial, Nair followup (I missed the true combo, it just shows how little the lag is)

Aerial, then what I call powerfall (edge cancel to fastfall) into jab

Now, SL said the Grounded was useless, however there is an application that always works when theres an edge, as it requires your oppnent to be on the same platform as you... Doing the whole thin REVERSE.
Basic on a platform canceld into bouncing fish.

Now what to do with this? Well, it allows you to run away from an opponent, then suddenly turn around, hit him and true combo into a bouncing fish.

Reverse actually hitting someone

Yea thats basicly all I've got. Sorry I'm a bit in a huurry so my tiping is pretty off i guess, well whatever, I'l llet pictures speak. Enjoy ~

This looks like it is very good, but difficult. Due to the nature of b-reversing needles (and what makes wave needles and stuff like traingle jumps and aerial pivot needle edgeguards possible), you would slide the way you were facing them. What do you do for timing on the reverse? Do you have a specific time when you are about to fall off (like a visual, it's hard to tell on the gif's since sheik moves 50 differnt places in a split second)?

 

[Wasserwipf]

This looks like it is very good, but difficult. Due to the nature of b-reversing needles (and what makes wave needles and stuff like traingle jumps and aerial pivot needle edgeguards possible), you would slide the way you were facing them. What do you do for timing on the reverse? Do you have a specific time when you are about to fall off (like a visual, it's hard to tell on the gif's since sheik moves 50 differnt places in a split second)?

Sorry, bad wording on my part. You don't do a "B-reverse" but rather a "Turnaround-B".
So it's (run), then (tilt, let go quickly), . This should lead you to slide left while facing and throwing needles to the right. Its kinda hard to pull off^^.

Aaand, change of my routine style, a none scaled, 1 FPS gif of it, created with a 60 FPS video source (so you can see all the frames...)

Timing is suuuuper hard tho, I can't do it consitently, i just wanted to drop it in here so that others might find ways to work with it

 

[saviorslegacy]

Sorry, bad wording on my part. You don't do a "B-reverse" but rather a "Turnaround-B".
So it's (run), then (tilt, let go quickly), . This should lead you to slide left while facing and throwing needles to the right. Its kinda hard to pull off^^.

Aaand, change of my routine style, a none scaled, 1 FPS gif of it, created with a 60 FPS video source (so you can see all the frames...)

Timing is suuuuper hard tho, I can't do it consitently, i just wanted to drop it in here so that others might find ways to work with it

I can't get it to load but I think I know what you are talking about. I have just started messing around with this myself. It is good for opponents that recover very low below the stage. If Bowser Jr. is recovering this way it is pretty much a garunteed gimp. I personally want to know how this works on Ike.

Thank you for the gifs btw wasserwipf.

 

[TCL | Harp & Dagger]

I can't get it to load but I think I know what you are talking about. I have just started messing around with this myself. It is good for opponents that recover very low below the stage. If Bowser Jr. is recovering this way it is pretty much a garunteed gimp. I personally want to know how this works on Ike.

Thank you for the gifs btw wasserwipf.

You can actually grab Ike through his jump while he's going to catch his sword if you have really good timing. I think the easier (not exactly easy but less risky from being hit) option is to runoff b-reverse needle into footstool or fair stagespike. Even though that's difficult it's probably easier lol.