New player here,do not know how to start.

[YouCMe]

Hi,Sm4sh is my first smash game that i played and i really wanted to try project m.But i have difficulties getting used to the controls and using the techniqes like l-cancel and wavedash.So can anyone guide me on starting the game?

 

[CORY]

First: who are you looking to main? If you're on the fence, I'd recommend Mario, shiek, or marth as they're all good starting characters to learn the basics of the game and most fundamentals. On that note avoid snake, lucario, and yoshi, as they play very differently and it'll hamper you in learning how to even deal with general stuff.

Now, don't worry about wavedashing at this point. Take your chosen main and get used to basic control (landing your tilta when you want, especially utilt, etc... You have smaah4 experience, so this shouldn't be too hard). Get used to short hop and fast falling aerials, specifically. Out of run, raring, jumping backwards, all that.

As you get used to the sh and ff part of shffl, start working on lcancelling. Don:t make it a rhythm, get used to "I'm near the ground, better get ready to hit shield." Once you get consistent, start doing th shffl on opponents in training, and even turn control on and hitting the shield with aerials.

Also varying timing, like late aerials vs early as possible, vs full jump etc... This is your basic, moat primal tech skill that gets used on basically every character. Once you get used to shffl, you can start picking up more specialized and niche tech skills.

Now, as you're learning this stuff (shffl) if you play people, you'll need to know basics of spacing. I'll find a good video for that when I'm not on mobile. But, the basis is that spacing isn't just your move, spacing for certain hitboxes, though that's important, but more about space control on stage. You want more stage behind you, than behind your opponent, basically, and that's what much of the game revolves around.

edit:

here's that video about "effective" spacing i was talking about. it goes into more detail about effective area of control.

 

[YouCMe]

I'm looking to main roy.After i posted this,i was getting used to the controls and practicing my shffl fair.I could do shffl pretty consistent except sometimes when i whiffed it.I also practiced my wavedash,but except that i could not really apply it when im playing.Am i going to a right direction??

 

[CORY]

roy's not a bad first character. he's less forgiving, but he still wants you to play a basic dd-punish game, so that's not bad.

don't worry about wd for now. if you're still learning the basics of how the pm meta works, you won't be able to use it effectively. if you're not able to shffl consistently, then focus on that. if you want a faster way to edgehog, learn to rar-edgehog for now (since rar is really simple).

the main uses for wd are for positioning, then extending some combos. you can extend past your dash into your run and then wd back, when you wouldn't be able to dd, then punish, or you can learn a burst mobility option's distance and hover near the end of it, then wd back (facing forward) and fsmash to punish. or run at someone in a tech, get them to roll behind you, then wd back and punish. things like that. other uses are going to be for another oos option (it's basically the same amount of frames as a raw shield drop, except you get to move some) or edgehogging quicker (you'll probably kill yourself a lot doing it at this point), especially in conjunction with rar.

and a lot of these things can be accomplished with just basic dashdance play, which is why i say don't worry about wavedashing. wd is like the tricks you learn to do on a skateboard after you've learned how to not fall on your ass just moving around and can do a basic ollie. you don't jump into it and immediately start aiming to hit massive railgrinds or crazy kickflips and stuff. you go into it learning to stand on the board, then move with it while keeping balance, then pick up speed and do your turns and stop when you want to, while keeping balance, then the basic ollie, then you build off of that.

so, focus on shffl's, focus on tilting when you want to tilt and smashing when you want to smash, get used to utilt vs usmash vs jump-uair, learn to space your moves properly and learn how the basics of stage control work (your effective range, as explained in that video). once you get used to all of that basic, more fundamental tenets of the game, then you work on into how to spice things up and use more options to exploit your opponent (wd out of dashes and shield, platform wl's, ledge wl's, invincible ledge wl's into grabs/smashes/etc....)

 

[YouCMe]

Oh ok.Thanks for the help!I will just focus on shffl and getting used to my controls before i start on the advanced techniques.

 

[Scuba Steve]

work on the -->, <--, ------>, <--, ----> game first. easiest thing to start using that is still a critical part of the game at any level

 

[OSCA MIKE]

to add on to cory's very helpful advice, feel free to also go into options and edit your controls if you want a different control scheme; for example, if it would be easier for you to jump with the "A" button, go ahead and map the "A" button to jump. The PMDT implemented unrestricted control options, so you can set any input to any other input you want.

i would still suggest getting used to the default controls first before going around and changing them willy-nilly. experiment with the default controls first. if that suits you fine, then keep working your game around default controls. it's worth nothing that the default control scheme in PM is also the same control scheme in Melee as well, so, if you ever want to play Melee, you can get used to the controls here in PM and be able to transfer over to Melee fairly well. there are a few nuances between the two that aren't exact, but that's mostly relegated to the technical aspects.

 

[Trollinguy]

First learn how to multishine, then shine out of sheild, then waveshine, and then not getting arthritis in your hands tech skill

 

[ElitistTX]

I'm also in your situation at the moment, planning on playing Falco. Best advice I can give is to look into as many resources as possible to learn the game.

 

[vegeta18]

im in this situation as well, played both brawl and smash 4. I mained marth in brawl and main rosalina in smash 4, trying to pick a brand new main for PM as well as learn some basics of the game, i never played much melee but i can wavedash and dash dance fine im just not very good at actually applying these skills at all.

 

[Trollinguy]

im in this situation as well, played both brawl and smash 4. I mained marth in brawl and main rosalina in smash 4, trying to pick a brand new main for PM as well as learn some basics of the game, i never played much melee but i can wavedash and dash dance fine im just not very good at actually applying these skills at all.

Luigi might not be bad then. Luigi is more of a floaty character that has the best wavedash in the game by far. You will learn to apply wavedashing with Luigi because you will wavedash everywhere instead of running. Also he has a quick combo escape move (his nair). Since your coming from brawl and smash 4 Luigi might be very natural because the combo systems in those games are more escapable and the characters are more floaty so Luigi might be a nice fit.

 

[Tomaster]

im in this situation as well, played both brawl and smash 4. I mained marth in brawl and main rosalina in smash 4, trying to pick a brand new main for PM as well as learn some basics of the game, i never played much melee but i can wavedash and dash dance fine im just not very good at actually applying these skills at all.

First of all I wanna say you made the right choice of main
As for applications for wavedashing and dash dancing, mewtwo doesn't really have good dash dances but you still wanna utilize them in neutral to confuse your opponent and stay mobile. For wavedashing practice wavedash-->down tilt or wavedash-->down smash/fsmash. I didn't use wavedashing much when first learning it except after taking a stock... But now I use it all the time. Mewtwo has the 4th best wavedash in the game so since you can wavedash make sure to utilize it.

 

[AudioSilver]

I would suggest playing as every character, at least once. And looking at your skill with each one. (Or just who you want to main... If you want to work.)

 

[Mizzy Moe]

thanks for the help guys as i kinda want to get into pm a lil bit as well i hated brawl but loved melee so i figured id at some point when i have everything i need for it i will try and see if i can get it to work to try out

i have some questions though. so you guys are saying mario shiek and marth are good starters, but what about sonic, squirtle, or ivysaur? i really want to try out squirtle and ivysuar because the way they play just looks extremely fun and sonic looks good as well
(especially with the shadow like skin :D ) and im loving how he has a more reliable spike with the fair. i never got into competitive melee or brawl ive just now got competitive with sm4sh any more advice for a pm newbie like me?

 

[Binary Clone]

thanks for the help guys as i kinda want to get into pm a lil bit as well i hated brawl but loved melee so i figured id at some point when i have everything i need for it i will try and see if i can get it to work to try out

i have some questions though. so you guys are saying mario shiek and marth are good starters, but what about sonic, squirtle, or ivysaur? i really want to try out squirtle and ivysuar because the way they play just looks extremely fun and sonic looks good as well
(especially with the shadow like skin :D ) and im loving how he has a more reliable spike with the fair. i never got into competitive melee or brawl ive just now got competitive with sm4sh any more advice for a pm newbie like me?

I would not recommend Sonic or Squirtle. They have burst movement options and unusual dash/run characteristics that make them play fairly differently. Sonic especially has odd movement, and Squirtle has a lot of odd tech to him that you should definitely not bother with at this point.

Ivy has some unusual characteristics as well, but nothing that I think drastically changes her general gameplan. She's a decent starter character, but her slow grab means that DD punishes might be more odd, and her tether-only recovery means that you won't get experience with more typical styles of recovery.

 

[Mizzy Moe]

I would not recommend Sonic or Squirtle. They have burst movement options and unusual dash/run characteristics that make them play fairly differently. Sonic especially has odd movement, and Squirtle has a lot of odd tech to him that you should definitely not bother with at this point.

Ivy has some unusual characteristics as well, but nothing that I think drastically changes her general gameplan. She's a decent starter character, but her slow grab means that DD punishes might be more odd, and her tether-only recovery means that you won't get experience with more typical styles of recovery.

okay so i should go ivy to get things down then when i feel comfortable with the basics?
also i i was wondering about ice climbers as well ive wanted to try them since i got back into melee (watching it ive lost my copy and its too expensive to just buy DX) but if im not mistaken they have always been hard to learn.

another question (sorry for all of them )

is knuckles actually gonna be added to pm or was that a joke of some sort? because i would love to see another sonic rep and knuckles seems perfect :D

 

[CORY]

thanks for the help guys as i kinda want to get into pm a lil bit as well i hated brawl but loved melee so i figured id at some point when i have everything i need for it i will try and see if i can get it to work to try out

i have some questions though. so you guys are saying mario shiek and marth are good starters, but what about sonic, squirtle, or ivysaur? i really want to try out squirtle and ivysuar because the way they play just looks extremely fun and sonic looks good as well
(especially with the shadow like skin :D ) and im loving how he has a more reliable spike with the fair. i never got into competitive melee or brawl ive just now got competitive with sm4sh any more advice for a pm newbie like me?

i recommend those three because they're not terrible and they teach you good basics that you can use mostly universally throughout the cast. they also make it difficult to just "ooops, i fell off the side and died randomly : /" if you have a good grasp of the basics (basic control, how and why to dd, an idea on how the spacing game, both move and stage control wise, works, etc...) then you can start picking up whoever and make it work.

i just don't like recommending newer players pick up goofier characters because they don't necessarily teach you "smash". they teach you "squirtle" or "snake" or whoever it is. which isn't necessarily bad, but if you've only played that character most of your smash career, it gets difficult to pick up and switch to other characters later on, as well as making it more difficult to understand why some characters do the things they do and how/why those things work.

/clarification

 

[Binary Clone]

okay so i should go ivy to get things down then when i feel comfortable with the basics?

Yeah, that's probably a better game plan.

also i i was wondering about ice climbers as well ive wanted to try them since i got back into melee (watching it ive lost my copy and its too expensive to just buy DX) but if im not mistaken they have always been hard to learn.

You'd be right, IC's are very very unusual, and you probably want to hold off on them for a bit as well.

another question (sorry for all of them )

is knuckles actually gonna be added to pm or was that a joke of some sort? because i would love to see another sonic rep and knuckles seems perfect :D

It's not allowed to discuss leaks, real or fake, on Smashboards, so I can't really answer that.

 

[Mizzy Moe]

i recommend those three because they're not terrible and they teach you good basics that you can use mostly universally throughout the cast. they also make it difficult to just "ooops, i fell off the side and died randomly : /" if you have a good grasp of the basics (basic control, how and why to dd, an idea on how the spacing game, both move and stage control wise, works, etc...) then you can start picking up whoever and make it work.

i just don't like recommending newer players pick up goofier characters because they don't necessarily teach you "smash". they teach you "squirtle" or "snake" or whoever it is. which isn't necessarily bad, but if you've only played that character most of your smash career, it gets difficult to pick up and switch to other characters later on, as well as making it more difficult to understand why some characters do the things they do and how/why those things work.

/clarification

makes sense 2 questions for you though

1. whats a "goofy" character
2. and how would learning snake or squirtle be different from learning say luigi or lucas

It's not allowed to discuss leaks, real or fake, on Smashboards, so I can't really answer that.

oh okay i mean i dont wanna break any of the rules but its been a year as the last ive seen about him and i looked on the voting poll and it showed him as an f under pichu, plusle and minun and even slippy toad.

as again i dont wanna break any rules but would it be okay to talk about the probability that he would ever make the appearence that not many people seem to want actually? (ps im mad hes only above shadow and im mad shadows last sure he COULD be an exact sonic clone but he has so many moves he could easily not have a single move sonic has and be okay at least in my opinion.)

 

[Mizzy Moe]

-Double post sorry delete if anyones able-

 

[CORY]

makes sense 2 questions for you though

1. whats a "goofy" character

it's really subjective to me. like, they don't play "normal" smash, as in they do stage control or option coverage drastically differently than most of the rest of the cast. or they have movement that works very differently to the rest of the cast. squirtle's kind of in this boat (leading a bit into your second question) because i joke around that you need to spend a week practicing him to learn to not kill yourself just doing normal on stage stuff. once you get past that, he mostly plays the way you would expect a highly mobile character to do so (i.e. a lot of low commitment stuff to open the opponent up, lead into combos. try to get knockdowns to use mobility/speed for tech chasing, etc... not super good at outright killing, but builds incremental damage up to get the killing blow or gimps).

i think of snake as goofy because he does stage control very differently from most of the cast, his grenade puts him into a different stance, rather than just being an item he pulls, his upb acts quiet differently from most in the game, he sets up for kills differently, just overall a very different playstyle that has a spot in the meta, but it's not good to learn the game with, imo.

previously, even ddd could've been considered in this camp, probably, since he turned your usual positional advantage paradigms on their heads, since he wasn't really afraid of being above a lot of the cast and he could just block out a lot of horizontal zoning tools with waddles (or by just staying in the air and fishing for a conversion from there).

2. and how would learning snake or squirtle be different from learning say luigi or lucas

kinda subjective, too, but for me luigi almost falls into a funky character paradigm. he's built on burst mobility from downb and wd, has mostly juggling moves, but low aerial movement speed making it hard to do much if they di out without a commitment in the form of wavedashing, and his aerial pressure is also odd in that he likes to double aerial you with his fast aerials and floaty fall speed.

lucas plays more like a normal character that's super focused around shield pressure and controlling your opponent's options from there. his recovery and dj are different and give different options than the rest of the cast, but his base game is still "maintain spacing, poke for an opening using your tools, get opening, comboooooooooooooooooooo".

like i said, a lot of it is subjective, for me, and i don't have a good barometer besides "i just know it when i see it" : / there's kind of a demilitarized buffer zone going on where it's a bit "jank", as far as normal gameplay is concerned, but still not too far out there in teaching you the game, that then progresses into "yeah, you're learning yoshi as your first character? that's going to be interesting".

 

[Deleted member]

lmao the advice in this thread is so bad

step 1. pick a character you like
step 2. kill the ****ing opponent

 

[Mizzy Moe]

-snip-

so it seems like basicly if the character plays like a normal character (mario, dk, maybe peach) and goofier character have something weird about them that you have to play around with before you play them to their potential?

 

[CORY]

lmao the advice in this thread is so bad

step 1. pick a character you like
step 2. kill the ****ing opponent

this works, too.

 

[mimgrim]

lmao the advice in this thread is so bad

step 1. pick a character you like
step 2. kill the ****ing opponent

I pretty much agree with this.

But if you really want to know a character that will "teach you Smash" then just learn Fox.

He'll teach you how to not get punished hard.
He'll force you to get L-cancel timings down.
He'll teach you how to put on pressure.
How to be aggressive.
How to force approaches.
How to be passive.
He'll teach you when to be aggressive or passive at a given moment.
He'll teach you how to move your hands really fast.
How to properly control your character.
He'll teach you sweet and sour spot stuff.
He'll teach you how to cross-up an opponent.
He'll teach you how to space properly.
He'll teach you both the neutral game and punish game very well.

He's a very versatile character who can be played in many ways and is very good but is also a character that many people know the match-up of which will force you to git gud so you will stop getting punished hard.

After that you can just stick with Fox because he is god. Or you can go on to a different character who feels better for you to play/you like more and a lot of what you learned as Fox will transfer over.

Or, again, just do what Umbreon said.

 

[Mizzy Moe]

reporting back got it workin on my wii

honestly i feel most comfortable with squirtle and ivysaur i love sonics forward air but compared to sm4sh his side b seems pretty much nonexistent.

i cant get online to work so i dont know if ill actually try it other than just playin with my friends

but like umbreon said it seems like just try out characters until you like how one plays then youll be fine