New kind of ledge stall that most characters can do

[The Mofo]

Today I was using debug mode to research ways I could regrab ledge faster with Ness. This is what I came up with:

Basically, this is what is happening:

1. Drop off ledge
2. Air jump and hold in toward the stage
3. Air dodge / waveland back off stage
4. Fast-fall regrab ledge

I initially thought this was only possible with Ness because of his unique second jump, but after trying it with more characters, I found out that most of the cast can do it. Here is the complete list:

Falcon
DK
G&W*
Bowser
Link*
Luigi
Mario*
Marth
Ness
Jigglypuff
Samus
Zelda*
Y. Link*
Doc
Roy*

Something interesting that I found out while testing was that a character cannot regrab the ledge in their neutral state while they still have ledge invincibility. Because of this, one repetition always is 37 frames long. The characters with * by their name mean that it is possible to completely miss the ledge if you follow the steps too quickly. With these characters, you have to either delay your fast-fall, or not fast-fall at all, in order to regrab the ledge.

(I'm guessing this was the way the programmers made sure that characters didn't regrab a ledge immediately after they let go of a ledge.)

Now, I'm aware that this maneuver is extremely difficult, stupidly risky, and because of this it's not likely something useful, but I thought I'd share it anyway. Discuss.

 

[Vegard]

This is not a new way to regrab the ledge?

 

[_wzrd]

wow sick, didn't know you could do this without losing your invincibility.

 

[rjgbadger]

fox can't do it

don't care

 

[The Mofo]

Fox already has multiple ledge stalls...

 

[SinisterB]

cool find Mofo

time to head to the lab

 

[poega]

fresh find, I think this might be quite a bit better than traditional ledgestalling (for baiting up-b's) in dubs and overall as to trigger marths etc to upb

 

[Kadano]

Is it really a coincidence you post this a few hours after my post? Hehe.

Nice find that it’s the invincibility that keeps you from regrabbing the ledge earlier, I didn’t figure that out as the cause.
Your list isn’t complete, though. I know for a fact that Ganondorf, Fox¹, Falco, Pikachu and Popo can also do it and Marth deserves a *.

¹Hold down until »FALL 7«, then press jump, then hold towards the stage until »JUMPAERIALF 13«, fastfall asap. No point in doing it with that ez mode up-B stall though, haha.

 

[ElloEddy]

this is hax planking stuff .... idk not so new in tristate , but its still pretty new ..didnt know all thoes characters could do it ..... its very dangerous lol..since they can just grab the ledge and if your a bad character doing this you will get wrecked =/ (imma ylink main it has happened lol )

 

[V3ctorMan]

^Good find Mofo, but yeah.. I've seen Hax$ do this like all the time.. but yeah nice to know all those other characters can do that too

 

[MookieRah]

People were talking about this exact thing in the PP Marth thread and I was wondering if you could do it with Roy (assumed that you could) but it's nice to know that it does indeed work for him.

 

[ZaXXoR]

So to pull this off you basically do a WL off stage instead of on-stage and regrab ledge? cool

 

[Nicco]

Is this new? I've been doing this with CF for a long time now...

 

[The Mofo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_discovery

 

[Bones0]

The invincibility thing is why Fox and Falco appear to require frame-perfect firestalls when in reality they don't. I think they have 2-3 frames of error for the actual input, but they won't regrab the ledge until the frame after they run out of invincibility.

 

[Hax]

Haxdashing (C)

 

[Construct]

Yeah, I always called it the Hax$, he was the first person I ever saw doing it. I'm not precise enough to rely on it though.

 

[EbAgItachi]

Most of the Cfals and Ganons I play against have been doing this for years now. Do most people not know about it?

 

[Metal Reeper]

Haxing. Ten get.

 

[The Mofo]

Hax, with all due respect, I highly doubt you do this without dropping your invincibility frames.

 

[OldSchool09]

Not that I care, but just for the smash historian, I've been doing this since early 2007 and have video evidence to back up this claim (everyone in Texas sees me doing it all the time, I would even say it's my favorite thing to do in the game.. definitely my favorite thing to suicide with - it's pretty gay on Yoshi's Story...)

Something that could be said to be new though is that you have apparently shown that it's an actual stall. I never knew this, nor could I do it well enough to make a legitimate stall out of it..


Also, I'm a huge fan! I remember watching your gameplay back in early 2006 and being amazed by you :D I was entirely inspired by your gameplay to develop the tech skill I did develop (not that I have good tech skill by today's standards, it fact it's quite ****ttty Never got to say anything to you back in 2006, but I think I should let you know that you inspired people back in the day

And yes, this is a troll account <.< But this is a rare serious post..

As for the history of sort of where I saw this and started using it, I can't remember the exact history, but I do remember seeing G@BE doing it in Texas and we sort of decided it either came from Isai or Rayzorium. What really came from them though was the simple wavedash off and then double jump back onto the stage, a trick you see many falcons doing today. I added the simple wavedash off to fast fall ledgegrab just because it was very fun to do.

 

[BTmoney]

I wonder how much slack various characters get, I know from Kadano that Marth has to do his pretty close to frame perfect

 

[enCouRaging Bear]

..... efff at the prospect that we're advancing ledge stalling tech.

 

[Vixen]

This was shown off as early as 05/06 by SDM.

Sent from my Event using Tapatalk 2

 

[AXE 09]

Can someone post a vid where Hax does this?

 

[Kadano]

Can someone post a vid where Hax does this?

No Johns 5_4_13_ Hax vs Mew2King Grand Finals, 4:12. This iteration takes him 22 30-Hz frames, exactly as much as Crimson Blur. So, at least in this iteration, he wasn’t invincible throughout (only 37 out of ~44 frames).

 

[Ramo]

Can someone post a vid where Hax does this?

I think I remember him doing this a lot in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5a2qAKPYr0) set. I don't have time to watch the whole thing, but he does it at 2:42 briefly.

 

[ZaXXoR]

I think I remember him doing this a lot in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5a2qAKPYr0) set. I don't have time to watch the whole thing, but he does it at 2:42 briefly.

that's nasty.... lol, that trade they made because of it seemed to make m2k lose the stock as well


on a side note... you made your account on my birthday, weird

 

[Ramo]

that's nasty.... lol, that trade they made because of it seemed to make m2k lose the stock as well


on a side note... you made your account on my birthday, weird

I know, that was my birthday present to you =D

 

[ZaXXoR]

I know, that was my birthday present to you =D

omg ur DP goes with this so well... LMFAO

 

[Massive]

I've been wasting time between stocks with this for years.

I've never used it to ledgestall though, the characters I play lose invincibility too quick making it basically worthless.

 

[The Mofo]

All characters are invincible for 37 frames upon grabbing the ledge.

 

[rawrimamonster]

I guess all of us can get CT tags now.

 

[Vixen]

People this osmt new. It has existed as early as 2005.

I even have vids of it being used in tournament in 09.

Sent from my Event using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ramo]

omg ur DP goes with this so well... LMFAO

What about my double penetration?

 

[ZaXXoR]

lol.... this has gone too far

 

[Superspright]

Ganondorf has been doing this for like...6 years. Seriously. I am surprised you didn't see that Ganondorf stays invincible for the whole thing, but you gotta FF to ledge.

 

[The Mofo]

To everyone saying "I've been doing this / I've seen this been done since 1994":

I think the big thing here isn't grab-ledge-waveland-back-to-edge, because I would agree that this is not something new nor difficult. It's doing this in a way that keeps the characters' invincibility. This usually requires timing within 1-4 frame windows, moving the analog stick from down/back to inward in one frame, and having precise angle control with the air dodge. I'm willing to wager that nobody can consistently do this yet, and I'm also willing to wager that few to none will ever do this consistently.

I wouldn't be surprised if SDM figured this out back in '05, though, as Mizuki claims.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Mofo, this has been known for a long time. Magus even made a post a few years ago explaining it entirely.

 

[The Mofo]

Alrighty then. Like I said, not surprised. Do you have a link to the Magus post? Or what he called it / keywords I should be searching for?