New Jersey killed Brawl. They alone, and no one else.

[Cassio]

When I said subjective I meant things like stage diversity being something that people want/care about, while also caring about things others might not feel is important. Not necessarily that they are or are not true, but half the community is going to agree with your standards and the other half are going to want the opposite.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Makes me want to drop Brawl permanently and go back to Street Fighter. At least that game is constantly evolving.

I should just stick to playing Brawl for fun and wait for Smash 4 to come out so I can REALLY unload.

 

[M@v]

We knew this all along. Too bad nobody cared. Now it's too late.

The unity ruleset committee cared and banned him, because we saw what was happening, the majority of the community was for it, and they were beginning to run their own mk banned events even before we made a decision. But just a few months later, everyone hated us, and blamed us, saying we screwed up and the ban fell apart. The URC fell apart with the ban as well.

Gee, how times have changed

 

[-LzR-]

Finland banned MK a few months before the official announcement. He was unbanned about half a year later because of the outside pressure. If only people would let people play in MK banned if they felt like it without all the whining.

 

[Espy Rose]

Cassio, you are like a reverse alchemist. You turned a thread worth diamonds into a thread worth coal.

 

[Cassio]

Well if it's a thread regarding MKs ban, then my job here is done

 

[Espy Rose]

I wish you never played Smash. Ever.

 

[Cassio]

Lol, but seriously you know I don't care if people play MK banned. But the brawl community's organization is the biggest problem not a three years ago universal ban.

 

[theunabletable]

The idea that MK is the reason that Brawl died is really ridiculous to me.

whether or not he should be banned, it's much more complex than MK being broken.

None of that was ever the point anyway; it was all to make sure M2K/whoever else didn't cry and quit. And now, 10 Meta Knight Cinderella Stories later (lookin' at you, Zero), we have arrived in exactly the world pro-ban always said we would.

Not interested in any real argument, but this is a pretty clear cut post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. It doesn't provide anything to say "Brawl died, and I predicted 4 years ago that the game would die because of MK," and to then conclude that MK's dominance was the primary reason for the game's decline. There are so many people that hate this game, for such a wide variety of reasons.

Isn't it much simpler to say that the game is probably dying, because its slow pace (especially in contrast to its now thriving predecessor) is less pleasant for most people?

Ask a Melee player, an FGC player, a person who has heard of and lightly dabbled in competitive Brawl, why they aren't really into Brawl. Is it because most of the top players play MK? They just can't possibly win money because MK gives their character the ****?

For the average player, the game simply got boring, as far as I can tell, anyways. (I guess the easy, confirmation-bias response is to say that it got boring because of MK)

 

[Espy Rose]

MK broke Brawl.

 

[Djent]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Knight. Controls. Everything.

 

[Xyro77]

6 years of MK
6 years of rulesets slowly helping MK
6 years of uneducated anti bans sucking MK disco stick


#Smash4SaveUs

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Here is a better idea. Ban Brawl and play Melee instead. You casual.

This attitude is unnecessary, especially when you purposefully wander into the Brawl sub-forum to do it.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Or.......

Make Brawl go out with a bang. Brawl's absence from MLG and EVO should make it clear that no one else will do it for you, so I would suggest that the remaining members of the Brawl community go out on whatever the next national/international is that has Brawl(APEX 2015 would be idea if there's none else) and make it the most hype and best tournament possible in every way.

It won't be easy with the odds against you, and some of you may have to go the extra mile, but I feel as though it's the best COA all things considered.

Make Brawl leave a dent and void in tournaments that none can fill.

Even though I don't like Brawl, I don't want to see it die with a whimper like the Wii.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

No, I feel like the next WHOBO will be the hypest Brawl tournie. If they have a hype regulated items tournie and MK banned.

 

[josh bones]

No, I feel like the next WHOBO will be the hypest Brawl tournie. If they have a hype regulated items tournie and MK banned.

There are no more WHOBO'S tho

 

[Shadow the Past]

There are no more WHOBO'S tho

http://smashboards.com/threads/may-...ition-brawl-melee-pm-64-200-pot-bonus.348315/

:V

 

[[TSON]]

OP, blaming the mistakes of a whole community on one person is disgraceful and borderline bullying. Alex Strife is a cool dude.

 

[Espy Rose]

He's not blaming just one person.

 

[[TSON]]

He's not blaming just one person.

Meta Knight players in NY/NJ and their powerful, influential tournament organizer (specifically, Alex Strife) cried about it and found reasons to justify Meta Knight's continued legality. Strife, who runs Apex, which is unavoidably the gold standard of tournament regulation, chose to keep MK legal and to remain a qualifier and keep the bloody Apex label, others followed. Nepotism at its finest.

That is some mighty fine namedropping.

 

[Espy Rose]

I would like to take the moment to direct you towards the title of the thread. Should be proof enough.

 

[[TSON]]

Alex is from NJ. It's clear from the post that the blame is going primarily to him for being "greedy" alongside the NJ community.

 

[Espy Rose]

Then he's blaming more than one person. I appreciate your help and understanding.

 

[Xinc]

Actually, you're very right. I totally forgot about that. lol This only applies to stuff like wave dashing then.

Also, Thor. Nobody is saying they didn't get outplayed by the Meta Knight player. but that's the problem; the Meta Knight player. A large quantity of picking the most obnoxious character that invalidates the cast is like a forest fire for a diversity of Metagames. You can beat majority of characters with just tornado alone.

I'm just going to say: http://smashboards.com/threads/disp...-intervew-wavedashing-was-intentional.162416/

If we take this thread as truth, then Wavedashing was intended.

Also, my penny's worth into the thread is that SSB4 is definitely a huge factor in the decline of Brawl. The second is that Brawl spectators do get bored after a while. Brawl isn't as fast paced as a lot of fighting games and that's a big reason for why Brawl is getting less popular. These points, however, I believe have already been covered in this thread.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I'm definitely blaming a region, which includes a lot of working parts (and people).

The Brawl community in general does not value sportsmanship, fairness, or honesty. It does not value the community, its players, or its own long-term viability, only short-term monetization and especially winning. It's an enormous culture problem that is unparalleled in severity across the entire spectrum of esports and even Smash in general, and it all started in one region.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I never actually traveled around all that much to see what other locations were doing. From my stand point in WI/MN its generally just the lack of interest in the game due to its overall mechanics. Apart from MK stigma and tripping there were lots of other elements as well. Overall, there were huge defensive buffs with shielddrop being -7 lag instead of -22 in melee. Spot dodging for some characters is stupid, and air dodge and speed of falling makes juggling nigh impossible for many characters. Tack in the ledge buff and going out for edge guards is actually riskier for the attacker than the defender in many cases.

To me, these defensive buffs are way more annoying than MK has ever been. I actually find it a nice challenge to try to beat MK with say Falco/Snake provide the MK I am playing is not trying to stay overly defensive.

 

[TreK]

Why did I even read this thread it's making me angry.

 

[Cassio]

The Brawl community in general does not value sportsmanship, fairness, or honesty. It does not value the community, its players, or its own long-term viability, only short-term monetization and especially winning. It's an enormous culture problem that is unparalleled in severity across the entire spectrum of esports and even Smash in general, and it all started in one region.

Nope nope nope. Though such judgementalism and blanket attribution is rarely correct. Forced me to log in just to say that, congrats.

 

[Espy Rose]

Too bad you're wrong Cass.

 

[Thor]

then Wavedashing was intended

I think Sakurai intended it as in "this is the result of pushing the physics engine into this odd situation," not "I want this to be another form of movement and to become an integral part of a competitive community." I don't think you can assert that Sakurai intended wavedashing to be in the game as a primary component of movement (considering it's not in the instruction booklet) although it's not a glitch either. That's neither here nor there with respect to most of this thread though.

It does not value the community, its players, or its own long-term viability, only short-term monetization and especially winning. It's an enormous culture problem that is unparalleled in severity across the entire spectrum of esports and even Smash in general, and it all started in one region.

Perhaps my Brawl area is radically different from what you've put up with, so take this with a grain of salt.

But this is closer to the MELEE community in my area [though far-off on both] - the Brawl players are nice people who play Melee because MELEE people cut Brawl from events for PM pools. Not PM. PM POOLS. But we love the game (Smash) enough to just play Melee/PM and try to get better at it (or most quit).

The stuff you've said isn't even close to our community, except the viability thing, and we're not long-term viable because we're outvoted by Melee players and don't have the funds/space to hold Brawl tournaments, and we're starting to lose numbers. But we always bring the Brawl setups to smashfests and tournaments if we can find like 3 people to play with (otherwise Melee people complain we're wasting a setup).

So Melee people hold votes to favor themselves because they know they outnumber us, and don't value us, part of the community and playerbase. We put up with it and play when we can, despite bleak tournament prospects. We have some MK players but most of them have backups anyway, just in case an MK ban lands around here. And we don't care about the ban either way locallly, because we don't care if we lose to some MKs, as it's more about playing with the best you can play with (admittedly we don't have uber-skilled players). The ban would only be beneficial to non-mains travelling, and I'd go to any tournament I could, MK or no, as would most of the other few players we have.

On an interesting note, I find it ironic that you accuse them of being concerned only with winning, while you obviously want MK banned to increase your own odds of success in a tournament.

 

[Espy Rose]

I think SFP is more than aware of the fact that banning MK won't really do much for him on the level of personal success.

 

[Vashimus]

We kill a lot of things here, SFP. Nothing personal.

 

[Gardex]

100% agree, OP. with MK banned there would be actual diversity in some of these tourneys... because watching MK dittos over and over on apex stream is just so much fun! -.-




Salem winning 2013 isnt exactly the point

That picture is ******** whether you support the MK ban or not.
You take players like Nakat, who mostly used ICs, and count him as MK, then you say something that doesn't exist(top 25) to make it seem more extreme.
It's top 24 or top 32.

A simplified version would say 9 MKs in the top 24. (You can add 0.5 for Ally and Havok if you'd like)

Like holy ****, if MK is obviously banworthy, then why do you have to make up skewed numbers to back up your case?

 

[etecoon]

To say that NJ accelerated Brawl's death is laughable, it hung on a lot longer than it should have given it's merits as a competitive game-regardless of MK legality or any number of other rules that have been experimented with. You can't fix Brawl with rulesets, it runs much deeper than that

 

[trash?]

You can't fix Brawl with rulesets, it runs much deeper than that

you certainly could patch areas up, though.

thing is, for all intents and purposes, brawl is using a slightly modified version of a melee ruleset. melee didn't have an established ruleset for years, and east and west coast rulesets were incredibly varied, with west coast even having items on in its earliest years, before finally finding a ruleset to stick to. brawl, on the other hand, never had what is an incredibly important step, instead taking the rules from a metagame far too different to its own and modifying it slightly to just barely function.

in the same way you should not try to enforce standard poker rules on texas hold em, you should not try to enforce melee rules in brawl. similar ideals and concepts, yet completely different beasts.

maybe the one-stock rule could fix it, maybe it couldn't. maybe banning MK could fix it, maybe it couldn't. I wouldn't know, I'm no fortune teller. that's not really the point, though, the point is that the brawl community needs to operate under its own rules. you have all these things you can change in the game, but you refuse to, "because that's not what the other games do", and that needs to stop. you aren't the other games. should you not be more proud of that, if anything else?

 

[NAKAT]

Whoever made this or even remotely agrees with this is toxic.

Please grow up.

 

[Espy Rose]

Save it for the judge, Adolf.

 

[Djent]

maybe the one-stock rule could fix it, maybe it couldn't. maybe banning MK could fix it, maybe it couldn't. I wouldn't know, I'm no fortune teller. that's not really the point, though, the point is that the brawl community needs to operate under its own rules. you have all these things you can change in the game, but you refuse to, "because that's not what the other games do", and that needs to stop. you aren't the other games. should you not be more proud of that, if anything else?

Just wanted to say, this is probably the most important thing to take away from this thread.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Whoever made this or even remotely agrees with this is toxic.

Please grow up.

Found the New Jersey resident

 

[Dekillsage]

This is my favorite thread