New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[NWRL]

Gosh people keep talking about Ridley and Dark Samus, but I'm bout to blow your minds with the true Smash worthy Metroid villain.

Too many spikes, he's crossing into Bowser's design territory.

 

[Solbliminal]

Too many spikes, he's crossing into Bowser's design territory.

You want to talk about crossing the line into Bowser territory?

Spoiler

 

[Anti Guy]

Thank you for the feedback. And if you want to keep tabs on my progress more deeply, I am inclined to give you my skype to share it more thoroughly. As for my vote for Shadow, I'll give a more of an in depth reasoning behind why I've chose to do so.

-Custom Robo was a game that kind of slipped my mind during my initial votes, and something I mistakenly overlooked. It is literally a game I owned and loved, but as time went by it just kind of went to the back of my mind. I had somewhat of a limited understanding of the choices before me and chose the characters I either found to be most interesting, or ones I felt should be in. If I had to pick a more sincere character to replace on my votes, that would be Primid, because the character shows little promise when compared to the large list before me after seeing a more thorough display of characters. He was a vote I felt highly about before my understanding of clones, feasibility, and other matters that go into how much time is required of a character as well as their true demand in appearance. But if I were to replace Shadow, it is because I don't want a vote to have so many reasons to be wasted, no matter how strongly I feel of the character. It is ultimately up to you if you will allow my vote change to waver or not. I'm taking this far more seriously than before.

To wrap this up, I gave it sincere thought and would not be making a moveset if I didn't completely support a character I felt deserved the position.

Sure, I'll replace your vote for Primid. I don't really follow anything closely in this thread. I'm way too busy these days to have the free time for that. I just pop in, scan stuff, and try to knock some sense in when things go out of control. So I'll generally only give input on more completed things. Still, I generally discourage movesets as I've said before. Movesets and a lot of speculation and the arguing here tend to be more or less mental masturbation, which is why I haven't even set foot in the SSB4 forums. I doubt the PMBR care much for detailed movesets here either.

The only movesets I value are ones that show proof of concept -- i.e. "This character can be implemented, and this is how. This is how it's feasible. And this is how it can be interesting." Specifics and superfluous **** like taunts and final smashes don't matter. It's all in the general idea (so I prefer something like: "Down A: Circular sweep kick. Fast with medium range." or "Forward Smash: Shoots a short-ranged arc of explosives (just explosives, no articles). Slow animation, but powerful" instead of stuff like "Down A: 12% damage, XX knockback, XX seconds animation.. blabla" and "Down Taunt: He looks left and right, pauses for 10 seconds, then utters "Pichu" while a bunch of dazzling fairies circle around him and a flame shield appears and disappears for 1.2 seconds.")

If a moveset hits that, then I link it in the OP.

 

[Empyrean]

I say we need more stationnary/extremely slow chars. Kraid would be good.

Even better, lets use Wispy Woods! Galacta Knight? Pfft, who the **** is that?? Wispy Woods would have top notch stage control with his apple shenanigans. On top of that, his apples can shine if they connect, setting up for some easy gimps.

He even has a home stage already.
/

On a more serious note, I actually read a Wispy moveset somewhere before that was...innovative, for lack of a better word.

On an even more serious note, does Galacta Knight qualify for the clone engine? I know there is practically zero support for an additional Kirby character, but he can be cloned easily off MK and bring a new weapon to the table for all you diverse-weapon lovers.

 

[laspacho]

Unofficial Polling
So that we have better evidence of what the community is thinking, I'll try to run a tally of votes. But I'm a very, very busy guy, so if people can help keep track for me, that would be great. There are five remaining clone slots, so I propose the following:

----

Here are my five votes/choices:
Black Shadow
Meowth
Simon Belmont
Megaman
Little Mac

1/2 VOTE:
Eggplant Wizard
Bowser Jr.
Tails

Pichu would be on the list but I think Pichu and Young link would be nice as skins. The Pokemon trainer with the fishing pole is a cool skin for Ike as is the Mega Evolution Charzard / Mew2.

 

[Shin F.]

Unofficial Polling
So that we have better evidence of what the community is thinking, I'll try to run a tally of votes. But I'm a very, very busy guy, so if people can help keep track for me, that would be great. There are five remaining clone slots, so I propose the following:

----

Here are my five votes/choices:
Black Shadow
Meowth
Simon Belmont
Megaman
Little Mac

1/2 VOTE:
Eggplant Wizard
Bowser Jr.
Tails

Pichu would be on the list but I think Pichu and Young link would be nice as skins. The Pokemon trainer with the fishing pole is a cool skin for Ike as is the Mega Evolution Charzard / Mew2.

First, Anti Guy already keeps up with all of our votes.

Second, Mega Man and Simon aren't eligible since they aren't in Brawl.

 

[Anti Guy]

Unofficial Polling
So that we have better evidence of what the community is thinking, I'll try to run a tally of votes. But I'm a very, very busy guy, so if people can help keep track for me, that would be great. There are five remaining clone slots, so I propose the following:

----

Here are my five votes/choices:
Black Shadow
Meowth
Simon Belmont
Megaman
Little Mac

1/2 VOTE:
Eggplant Wizard
Bowser Jr.
Tails

Pichu would be on the list but I think Pichu and Young link would be nice as skins. The Pokemon trainer with the fishing pole is a cool skin for Ike as is the Mega Evolution Charzard / Mew2.

Simon Belmont and Megaman are inelligible because they're not in Brawl.

 

[Solbliminal]

Sure, I'll replace your vote for Primid. I don't really follow anything closely in this thread. I'm way too busy these days to have the free time for that. I just pop in, scan stuff, and try to knock some sense in when things go out of control. So I'll generally only give input on more completed things. Still, I generally discourage movesets as I've said before. Movesets and a lot of speculation and the arguing here tend to be more or less mental masturbation, which is why I haven't even set foot in the SSB4 forums. I doubt the PMBR care much for detailed movesets here either.

The only movesets I value are ones that show proof of concept -- i.e. "This character can be implemented, and this is how. This is how it's feasible. And this is how it can be interesting." Specifics and superfluous **** like taunts and final smashes don't matter. It's all in the general idea (so I prefer something like: "Down A: Circular sweep kick. Fast with medium range." or "Forward Smash: Shoots a short-ranged arc of explosives (just explosives, no articles). Slow animation, but powerful" instead of stuff like "Down A: 12% damage, XX knockback, XX seconds animation.. blabla" and "Down Taunt: He looks left and right, pauses for 10 seconds, then utters "Pichu" while a bunch of dazzling fairies circle around him and a flame shield appears and disappears for 1.2 seconds.")

If a moveset hits that, then I link it in the OP.

Well it is a good thing you told me this. Literally the only aspects I had in mind when starting the moveset is how the move will perform, how feasible it would be, and if it were possible to even have the character balanced. The stance picture I gave was more along the lines of a height comparison tool I'll be using similar to the Ridley one from earlier, and a way of showing how the character would appear in the game. I do want to explain how the character CAN be use to further gauge interest of the readers though. I'm not building some "fan moveset that absolutely happen at all costs because SSB4 kthx". Ray's capabilities, practicality, and feasibility are top priorities here and I understand most of what is necessary to prove the characters worth as one of the 5 slots. So I will do my best to stay within what you are expecting.

 

[laspacho]

Oh I'm sorry, I'm new here. I didn't realize there was a ineligible list. I saw Waluigi as a choice so I thought I could choose any character.

I'll change my other choices to Toad and Bowser Jr.

 

[PaRappa the Rapper]

Simon Belmont and Megaman are inelligible because they're not in Brawl.

Samurai Goroh, Black Shadow and Skull Kid is though

*whistles nonchalantly*

 

[Solbliminal]

Next WIP in my icon.

 

[Shin F.]

Oh I'm sorry, I'm new here. I didn't realize there was a ineligible list. I saw Waluigi as a choice so I thought I could choose any character.

I'll change my other choices to Toad and Bowser Jr.

There's not an 'ineligible list', as such. Rather, PMBR have decided that they won't include any character unless they appear in Brawl in some form already (ie, as a sticker or a trophy).

 

[arcticfox8]

I see Ray as a small airdashan projectile character. I think he should be about Olimar sized. If you upscale him you lose a lot of personality the character had as an AT.

 

[Shin F.]

I see Ray as a small airdashan projectile character. I think he should be about Olimar sized. If you upscale him you lose a lot of personality the character had as an AT.

I think he could work as an Olimar-sized character. In fact, I think he may be better that way.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Yeah, I like the idea of him being small too.
Megaman size would be fine with me though.

 

[Solbliminal]

I disagree. The only reason the character was small was because of the fact the character was an assist trophy representing a robotic toy. I can see him being more Luigi sized though. But as of my preference, Marth's height is about what I see him standing. In the same regard of Ridley being downscaled, I would want Ray upscaled.

 

[Shin F.]

I disagree. The only reason the character was small was because of the fact the character was an assist trophy representing a robotic toy. I can see him being more Luigi sized though. But as of my preference, Marth's height is about what I see him standing. In the same regard of Ridley being downscaled, I would want Ray upscaled.

Well, he would have to be up-scaled regardless, but the question is how much he should be scaled. The other characters that are scaled up are pretty consistent in their size (Kirby and Olimar). I think he would feel a bit more like him at that size. Could you imagine if Kirby or Olimar had been Marth sized? Of course, I say this as someone who has only experienced Custom Robo through Smash, so again, I'm not going to really argue over it.

 

[Empyrean]

Agreed with Solbliminal on this one. I might not know anything about Custom Robo, but I would be more interested in a larger Ray. A small one would look too much like a toy IMO. Judging from the design, a size close to Link seems appropriate for me.

 

[Shin F.]

Agreed with Solbliminal on this one. I might not know anything about Custom Robo, but I would be more interested in a larger Ray. A small one would look too much like a toy IMO. Judging from the design, a size close to Link seems appropriate for me.

... But he is a toy, isn't he? Genuine question, here, since I haven't played the games.

 

[Xinc]

Simon Belmont and Megaman are inelligible because they're not in Brawl.

Well, definitely not Megaman, since he's in SSB4.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I'm okay with any size. I just like the idea of a little cute robot running around kicking ass.

 

[Solbliminal]

Well, he would have to be up-scaled regardless, but the question is how much he should be scaled. The other characters that are scaled up are pretty consistent in their size (Kirby and Olimar). I think he would feel a bit more like him at that size. Could you imagine if Kirby or Olimar had been Marth sized? Of course, I say this as someone who has only experienced Custom Robo through Smash, so again, I'm not going to really argue over it.

Oh I'm not really posing an argument man. I can see what you all see in him being small for sure, but roughly around Mario or Luigi's height is the smallest I would want to see the character myself. For 2 reasons in fact:

1) The amount of detail on Ray would look odd in a character being that small.

2) Small character about Kirby / Olimar's size that shoots projectiles rapidly and moves quickly is going to be one hell of a gripe when it comes to fighting.

... But he is a toy, isn't he? Genuine question, here, since I haven't played the games.

It is "sort of" that way. The best way to describe Ray's fighting environment is the same way Smash bros environment is. The Holosseum is sort of a mechanical dream realm where the "toys" fight. In this realm, a robot of about Ray's size is around the average height of a young adult like Link.

 

[arcticfox8]

I just like him small because I've only seen him through Brawl, and in Brawl he's a little

cute robot running around kicking ***.

And I love it.

 

[archedmaid]

One of the guys who helped create some of the new alternates has posted a Bowser Jr. recently. I think Bowser Jr. would be interesting as a new character. If they didn't use the paint brush and they cloned him off of Bowser it would be cool if they changed is forward special to withdraw like squirtle and some of the koopalings, also instead of breathing fire like Bowser breathing a fire ball or a charge up that spurts three fire balls.

 

[Anti Guy]

I'm okay with any size. I just like the idea of a little cute robot running around kicking ***.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Yeah. He was one of my initial +1's actually.
But then Masked Man was like "Hey, I'm Masked Man, vote for me."

 

[Solbliminal]

I just like him small because I've only seen him through Brawl, and in Brawl he's a little

And I love it.

So you would be okay with Ridley remaining his same size since he appeared that way in Brawl? Just saying.

Yeah. He was one of my initial +1's actually.
But then Masked Man was like "Hey, I'm Masked Man, vote for me."

Can't go wrong with a vote for Sukapon~ I wouldn't mind seeing both Ray AND Sukapon. That way we get a cool robot and a cute one. Those guys be besties for life.

 

[Shin F.]

So you would be okay with Ridley remaining his same size since he appeared that way in Brawl? Just saying.

There's a distinct difference there. He's not saying he doesn't want him scaled at all, he's saying he wants him scaled less so that he still feels small. Not as small as he actually is, since (like Ridley) that would be impractical.

To use the Ridley example - we would naturally want him scaled to about Bowser size, maybe a bit bigger, right? But if you scale him down too much, let's say to Marth-sized, then he loses a bit of what made him who he is. Likewise, he's saying that if you scale Ray up too much, then he stops feeling like Ray.

 

[Arteen]

I think Ray would look weird if he was as tall as Marth, and it wouldn't represent the character well. None of the character sizes in Smash are canonical, but they do reflect their general sizes. Olimar is still a small character and Bowser's still large. Ray's a toy, not human-sized android, and his scale should reflect that. Something Mario or Luigi sized would be better.

 

[Solbliminal]

What you guys are seeing:

Spoiler

What I am seeing:

Spoiler

 

[Shin F.]

What you guys are seeing:

Spoiler

What I am seeing:

Spoiler

Fixed just a tad bit

 

[Arteen]

He actually is a small toy, though. He's not a tall, human-sized android like X.

 

[Empyrean]

Though it might be caused by my ignorance of the series, I wouldn't feel off with a human-sized Ray. Someone can correct if I'm wrong, but it isn't his size that makes him interesting, it's his bad*** design and the fact that he fights in what I understand is mechanical gladiator combat.

 

[Solbliminal]

Fixed a bit

I don't think you guys understand how much faster (in terms of mobility) Ray is than Classic Mega Man. It is going to be absolutely nuts fighting him if he were any smaller than Luigi. It would be like fighting Vanilla Meta Knight equipped with a gun.

Though it might be caused by my ignorance of the series, I wouldn't feel off with a human-sized Ray. Someone can correct if I'm wrong, but it isn't his size that makes him interesting, it's his bad*** design and the fact that he fights in what I understand is mechanical gladiator combat.

I'm not entirely sure who all here has played Custom Robo, but if Empyrean has the right mindset for this.

He actually is a small toy, though. He's not a tall, human-sized android like X.

....So you are trying to say his non-canon scaling should be based on a canon piece of information? Stop contradicting yourself.

 

[HayabusaTaichou]

When you play custom Robo all you see is the robots running around an arena which more often than not gives no indication that it is as small as it is meant to be so the robots really feel like they're just the size of any human. Having Ray be really small would actually feel completely off to me cause in game you never really feel like you're playing a tiny robot.
Another way to think about it using a similar thing is I collect gunpla, in reality they're just plastic models sitting on my shelf but to me they're awesome mecha 144 times their size.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

April Fool's day is a third of the year down the road, but I bet we all know the best candidate for a joke character:

Not that I wouldn't mind it being real...Playing as Shadic would be awesome

 

[Arteen]

....So you are trying to say his non-canon scaling should be based on a canon piece of information? Stop contradicting yourself.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. What is the contradiction? Every character's size in Smash reflects their canon size to some degree.

 

[Solbliminal]

When you play custom Robo all you see is the robots running around an arena which more often than not gives no indication that it is as small as it is meant to be so the robots really feel like they're just the size of any human. Having Ray be really small would actually feel completely off to me cause in game you never really feel like you're playing a tiny robot.
Another way to think about it using a similar thing is I collect gunpla, in reality they're just plastic models sitting on my shelf but to me they're awesome mecha 144 times their size.

-claps-

What I originally was seeing:

Spoiler

What I should have said:

Spoiler

 

[Shin F.]

I don't think you guys understand how much faster (in terms of mobility) Ray is than Classic Mega Man. It is going to be absolutely nuts fighting him if he were any smaller than Luigi. It would be like fighting Vanilla Meta Knight equipped with a gun.

Luigi-sized would be better than Marth-sized, I think. I would be okay with that. I just have a hard time seeing him as big as a normal-sized human like Marth. I think he'd feel more unique if he wasn't quite that big.

 

[Solbliminal]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. What is the contradiction? Every character's size in Smash reflects their canon size to some degree.

The fact that you've probably not even played Custom Robo to be making this argument with me in the first place. That would be a start. I haven't really even seen a real suggestion made from you to contribute to the moveset. So let me ask you this....

Luigi-sized would be better than Marth-sized, I think. I would be okay with that. I just have a hard time seeing him as big as a normal-sized human like Marth. I think he'd feel more unique if he wasn't quite that big.

...and you...

Spoiler

Does THIS strike you as a game about toys?