New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Anti Guy]

it's because she's taller, isn't it?

No, it's because she has bigger... bombs to throw

 

[Shin F.]

Not me...I'm sorry.

Now, onto what I came here for.
Based on popular demand (3 people), I will be giving ideas for Micaiah's specials (cloned from Ness). A full moveset may come later.
[collapse=da special specials]
Neutral B: Mend

very pretty, much heal...

A traditional Fire Emblem healing staff. Works just like Ivysaur's Synthesis, but working 1.25x faster. (dunno the actual numbers). Instead of being a charging sequence for an attack, the primary purpose of this is healing. However, upon the first 3 frames of the move, it acts as a pseudo-Counter. She'll counter using the staff, dealing 4% and causing a trip.

I would've used her trademark move "Sacrifice", but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense in a 1 v 1, and I dunno if it's possible to recreate in teams. If it is possible, maybe it can be like a Taunt switch type of thing, switching between Mend and Sacrifice.


Up B: Rexaura

On the ground, sends a large pillar of light energy directly above her, kind of like Pikachu's Thunder.
In the air, Micaiah fires the same pillar below her, propelling her upwards.
Not a good edge guarding technique due to the knockback, which always sends the enemy straight up, but good for kills off the top. Does 15% and doesn't have as much knockback as one would expect.


Side B: Light Ball (cloned from Ness' Final Smash)


PK Starstorm, but a little smaller (just a little). No charge necessary. Fires it straight ahead on the ground, diagonally downwards in the air (doing so will also send her backwards, like Mewtwo's Shadow Ball, allowing for SOME use in recovery). Travels VERY slow (just a bit faster than Lucario's Spirit Bomb), posing the threat of a strong, lingering hitbox. Only two can be out at a time. Does 13%, can only kill midweights at VERY high percents (>200%). Primarily a spacing move.


Down B: Thani (cloned from Ness' PK Flash)

Her signature spell in FE10.
I have 2 possibilities for how it could be made.

1. Having it travel and exploding at a set distance, not requiring player control, freeing up the player for
movement. This method is MUCH more useful than Ness' PK Flash, befitting for a signature attack.
The player can press Down B again to have it explode instantly for less power.
(25%, 15% if exploded prematurely)

*This would be optimal

2. Having it work EXACTLY like PK Flash with minor aesthetic changes. The easy way.


Final Smash: Goddess Yune


Micaiah becomes possessed by the Goddess Yune and uses all of her powers.
Her eyes become red and she emits a light yellow aura.
ALL of her attacks triple in percentage and knockback for 20 seconds.
She can move twice as fast and has an infinite number of jumps.

*Very minor spoilers

[/collapse]
Potential Alt Costumes:

Spoiler

Her original appearance for reference

Light Sage (I would prefer this one)

Light Priestess

Her Awakening, fan servicey appearance (Dark Mage)

Muy bueno?
Tres mal?
How I do?

More magic users is good. I approve, regardless of the fact that I don't play Fire Emblem. ... As long as the healing thing isn't too cheap.

 

[Anti Guy]

Not me...I'm sorry.

Now, onto what I came here for.
Based on popular demand (3 people), I will be giving ideas for Micaiah's specials (cloned from Ness). A full moveset may come later.
[collapse=da special specials]
Neutral B: Mend

very pretty, much heal...

A traditional Fire Emblem healing staff. Works just like Ivysaur's Synthesis, but working 1.25x faster. (dunno the actual numbers). Instead of being a charging sequence for an attack, the primary purpose of this is healing. However, upon the first 3 frames of the move, it acts as a pseudo-Counter. She'll counter using the staff, dealing 4% and causing a trip.

I would've used her trademark move "Sacrifice", but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense in a 1 v 1, and I dunno if it's possible to recreate in teams. If it is possible, maybe it can be like a Taunt switch type of thing, switching between Mend and Sacrifice.


Up B: Rexaura

On the ground, sends a large pillar of light energy directly above her, kind of like Pikachu's Thunder.
In the air, Micaiah fires the same pillar below her, propelling her upwards.
Not a good edge guarding technique due to the knockback, which always sends the enemy straight up, but good for kills off the top. Does 15% and doesn't have as much knockback as one would expect.


Side B: Light Ball (cloned from Ness' Final Smash)


PK Starstorm, but a little smaller (just a little). No charge necessary. Fires it straight ahead on the ground, diagonally downwards in the air (doing so will also send her backwards, like Mewtwo's Shadow Ball, allowing for SOME use in recovery). Travels VERY slow (just a bit faster than Lucario's Spirit Bomb), posing the threat of a strong, lingering hitbox. Only two can be out at a time. Does 13%, can only kill midweights at VERY high percents (>200%). Primarily a spacing move.


Down B: Thani (cloned from Ness' PK Flash)

Her signature spell in FE10.
I have 2 possibilities for how it could be made.

1. Having it travel and exploding at a set distance, not requiring player control, freeing up the player for
movement. This method is MUCH more useful than Ness' PK Flash, befitting for a signature attack.
The player can press Down B again to have it explode instantly for less power.
(25%, 15% if exploded prematurely)

*This would be optimal

2. Having it work EXACTLY like PK Flash with minor aesthetic changes. The easy way.


Final Smash: Goddess Yune


Micaiah becomes possessed by the Goddess Yune and uses all of her powers.
Her eyes become red and she emits a light yellow aura.
ALL of her attacks triple in percentage and knockback for 20 seconds.
She can move twice as fast and has an infinite number of jumps.

*Very minor spoilers

[/collapse]
Potential Alt Costumes:

Spoiler

Her original appearance for reference

Light Sage (I would prefer this one)

Light Priestess

Her Awakening, fan servicey appearance (Dark Mage)

Muy bueno?
Tres mal?
How I do?

...why Ness? Zelda makes a lot more sense. Her spells are right in line, and she doesn't have a bat or anything that you'd need to replace.

 

[Promestein]

Okay, I'll try to explain it as best I can.

Project M is a mod in which the primary purpose is to create move sets for characters with two goals:
1. Make it play like Melee, but improve it as much as possible so all characters are viable.
2. Stay as true to the characters as possible while maintaining balance.

Having said this, nothing matters more than the techniques and abilities each character has. Not representation. Not bringing something back just because. While that is important, it's all about the metagame.

When we say Giegue and Ninten have the same moveset potential as far as borrowed techniques and PSI, you say you'd take Giegue but not Ninten. Your best argument is 'he looks like Ness.' Yet, Giegue looks like Mewtwo. He's kind of different, but Ninten can also be made to look different if he's based on his appearance from the original Mother commercial, or even his sprite. You're rejecting one character for the exact same reasons you wouldn't mind the other, which is highly hypocritical. Now do you understand how you're contradicting your own statements?

To my knowledge, that is the only time Giegue has ever been physically seen. I don't believe there has ever been any artwork made of him, although it seems insane to say it doesn't exist. That's not to say, however, that there can't be more detail added in something like Project M. Take a look at Pit, for instance.

That is what Ninten's official art looks like, as seen in Brawl. The commercial for Mother is deliberately non-canon, with the changes from the artwork coming from a need to make the commercial more visibly appealing. For an example of what I'm talking about, look at Ness cosplayers. That outfit does not "pop" as well as Ninten's does in that commercial. It's just simply not canon, it's there just for marketing. You might as well pull from fanart for Giegue, then. As for the sprite? I don't see how pulling from a sprite could be preferable to pulling from the official art, since there are sprite limitations. Were that the case, Kraid would actually be possible.

Kraid has zero chance. I can't say anything about Donbe since I don't know him, but he's got to have more potential than Kraid of all things.

Such was the point. Takamaru apparently has a chance of being in Smash 4. Donbe is extremely, extremely, unlikely. But that game was a text adventure, and one I have not played.

I am not sure why people are arguing about Giegue/Giygas being a possible Mother newcomer considering he does not even qualify for Project M.

...You're right. I got off track. My apologies.

 

[Pikmin1211]

Louie gets no love.
He could be like Luigi version of Olimar.

 

[Banjodorf]

Wait a minute. I forgot about Michaiah. I'd be willing to forgo my stance about clone slots for her maybe, because of the whole "more female representation and more magic users is good" thing, and especially after playing RD and finding her a pretty decent character, I definitely wouldn't be against it.

 

[Pikmin1211]

Wait a minute. I forgot about Michaiah. I'd be willing to forgo my stance about clone slots for her maybe, because of the whole "more female representation and more magic users is good" thing, and especially after playing RD and finding her a pretty decent character, I definitely wouldn't be against it.

Isn't Michaiah a little... random?
I mean, we have 5 / 6 magic users already, and 3 FE characters.
2 slots for FE cloned characters?

 

[Shin F.]

That is what Ninten's official art looks like, as seen in Brawl. The commercial for Mother is deliberately non-canon, with the changes from the artwork coming from a need to make the commercial more visibly appealing. For an example of what I'm talking about, look at Ness cosplayers. That outfit does not "pop" as well as Ninten's does in that commercial. It's just simply not canon, it's there just for marketing.

Why is it not canon? They're just clothes, and it was an official ad from Nintendo. What makes it any less valid than the official art?

As for the sprite? I don't see how pulling from a sprite could be preferable to pulling from the official art, since there are sprite limitations. Were that the case, Kraid would actually be possible.

Spoiler

Based primarily on his sprite, with a little influence from the commercial and some creative license.

That's another way you're contradicting yourself, too. You point at Pit and say Giegue can be updated in the same way, but say we can't use Ninten's actual appearance from official advertisements. Even if they didn't use his commercial or sprite appearance, they could do the same thing for Ninten. That's another argument you're trying to use for Giegue but ignore for Ninten. If you don't want Ninten because you personally prefer Giegue, just say so instead of making up invalid reasons that Giegue would be better.

Such was the point. Takamaru apparently has a chance of being in Smash 4. Donbe is extremely, extremely, unlikely. But that game was a text adventure, and one I have not played.

Didn't know anything about Donbe, so I couldn't tell.

...You're right. I got off track. My apologies.

Now, can we please stop talking about him?

 

[Solbliminal]

I would be very interested in seeing Ashley. She seems like a very fun idea character and I've played a few Wario Ware games.

 

[Banjodorf]

Isn't Michaiah a little... random?
I mean, we have 5 / 6 magic users already, and 3 FE characters.
2 slots for FE cloned characters?

Probably. Just putting out some ideas. I totally wasn't even considering Mewtwo a magic character. It's true though.

Though granted, Ashely is probably a better choice. I'm all for that. Ashley and Dixie seem like perfect female representation, now that I think about it.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

If another Fire Emblem character were to get in I'd say it's almost too likely that it'd end up being Lyn. As much as I like Michaiah I vastly prefer the idea of having a katana wielder over a magic wielder from Fire Emblem... And I'd venture to say Lyn is a bit more popular then her.

I'd say leave the magic casting to the likes of Isaac.

 

[Pikmin1211]

Probably. Just putting out some ideas. I totally wasn't even considering Mewtwo a magic character. It's true though.

Though granted, Ashely is probably a better choice. I'm all for that. Ashley and Dixie seem like perfect female representation, now that I think about it.

Krystal? Rosalina?

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

...why Ness? Zelda makes a lot more sense. Her spells are right in line, and she doesn't have a bat or anything that you'd need to replace.

I picked Ness over Zelda because his specials allowed for much more of a canonical moveset. The closest thing Zelda has to Thani is Din's Fire, which still looks nothing like it. Zelda does have Teleport, which could have been used as Teleportation powder, but Micaiah never uses that, and Mewtwo was able to get a Teleport while being based on Lucario. Plus, Ness just has a lot more projectiles to be repurposed into her spells (I only used a few). From what I hear (from cmart), the bat Ness uses isn't an article either, and probably wouldn't be an issue to get rid of. If that's somehow incorrect, Micaiah can always beat up ******* with a Mend staff for her normals, properly representing ALL FE healers.

 

[Solbliminal]

Krystal? Rosalina?

Ashley and Dixie are definitely better choices. By far.

 

[Pikmin1211]

Ashley and Dixie are definitely better choices. By far.

I don't disagree with Ashley or Dixie, but what makes them so much better?

 

[Banjodorf]

Krystal? Rosalina?

Krystal I can't speak on, because I'm incredibly biased against her. However, Rosalina is good, but I'd still rank her below Ashley and far below Dixie.

As for what makes them better: Dixie is one of the few older Nintendo characters considered an All-star that has yet to appear in Smash. In addition, she was actually considered for Brawl, and she's Dixie, an incredibly popular and fan-beloved character.

Ashley is also popular, and has an archetype that isn't yet realized in Smash.

Rosalina on the other hand, while being amazing, is another princess, and Krystal is a very divisive character. There's also a bit of a stigma around adding more Starfox characters.

 

[Pikmin1211]

Chunky Kong?
Lanky Kong?
They are way past cool.
Also, yay 100th post!

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Updating my votes just a little

FULL VOTES

-Ridley
-Toad
-A New Ganondorf (keep the one already in and add one for Wind Waker or Ocarina of Time)
-Sukapon
I'll add a fifth one when the OP is updated

HALF VOTES

-Ninten
-Masked Man (probably discredited, since Lucas wears his clothes as an alt, as a reference to Chapter 5 of Mother 3, but I'm holding out anyway)
-Waluigi
-Kamek
-Dixie Kong
-Ashley*
-Samurai Goroh
-Pichu
-Isaac

*update from old votes

 

[Solbliminal]

I don't disagree with Ashley or Dixie, but what makes them so much better?

Krystal is generally hated because of the game she is from and the drama she causes in the Star Fox series. Rosalina because of that whole "too many characters from a series" argument. Plus I hear she has a chance to be in Sm4sh. Not like it matters to me, but to some people it might. But still, Dixie is a bigger fan favorite than Rosalina to my knowledge. Ashley, I'm not sure about. But she is very popular from what I've seen. I personally prefer a Wario Ware rep over another Mario rep. Ashley is the go to choice.

 

[Shin F.]

Ashley is the go to choice.

Or a Kat & Ana Ice Climber duo type of character. Speedier, with elements from Sheik to represent their Ninja abilities. A rapid jab combo like Link's, a recovery like Sheik's Teleport with a sword strike coming out of it instead of an explosion, a ninja star projectile in place of Ice Climbers' Ice Shot, things like that.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

If another Fire Emblem character were to get in I'd say it's almost too likely that it'd end up being Lyn. As much as I like Michaiah I vastly prefer the idea of having a katana wielder over a magic wielder from Fire Emblem... And I'd venture to say Lyn is a bit more popular then her.

I'd say leave the magic casting to the likes of Isaac.

Yeah, I don't think Micaiah will be picked over Lyn any time soon.
I only post these movesets to show what these FE characters are capable of, and how diverse they can actually be. (would've made one for Lyn if ManlySpirit's wasn't so brilliant.)
After a lot of time on this thread, I personally find Hector and Micaiah more interesting than Lyn, in terms of both personality and moveset potential. I only upvoted Lyn because I thought she was the FE character with the best chance to make it in, and it's too late to change that vote.

 

[Solbliminal]

Or a Kat & Ana Ice Climber duo type of character. Speedier, with elements from Sheik to represent their Ninja abilities. A rapid jab combo like Link's, a recovery like Sheik's Teleport with a sword strike coming out of it instead of an explosion, a ninja star projectile in place of Ice Climbers' Ice Shot, things like that.

That would take two slots. No one wants that.

 

[Banjodorf]

Well there's definitely nothing wrong with:

Dixie
Ashley
Ridley (Or Dark Samus, but preferably Ridley. I don't think the PMBR will pass up a chance to give the fans Ridley.)
Isaac
Someone?

 

[Shin F.]

That would take two slots. No one wants that.

Would it? The normal Ice Climbers only take one slot, so if they were cloned from them, it should work with only one... right?

I think I read a comment by Eternal Yoshi once that said Nana was an article for Popo... though, what do I know about articles?

EDIT: Found it on Kitty Corp. It's the first one on the page.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=53347.810

 

[Anti Guy]

I picked Ness over Zelda because his specials allowed for much more of a canonical moveset. The closest thing Zelda has to Thani is Din's Fire, which still looks nothing like it. Zelda does have Teleport, which could have been used as Teleportation powder, but Micaiah never uses that, and Mewtwo was able to get a Teleport while being based on Lucario. Plus, Ness just has a lot more projectiles to be repurposed into her spells (I only used a few). From what I hear (from cmart), the bat Ness uses isn't an article either, and probably wouldn't be an issue to get rid of. If that's somehow incorrect, Micaiah can always beat up *****es with a Mend staff for her normals, properly representing ALL FE healers.

Honestly you wouldn't even have to mimic the FE spells though. Smash Bros generally does a half-assed job when it comes to sticking with canon. Just look at Zelda; her Din's Fire is completely different. Roy never got his ranged attack. And then there's Ganondorf. Overall, Zelda's body type is much, much easier to clone than Ness, and you can just simply light-ify her spells (or adjust them a lot, which they can probably do). The biggest thing is that most of her normal attacks can just be slightly modified. This is a HUGE timesaver. Then for a down B, you can have that Pika Thunder-like attack. And if you go with Ness as a base, you'd virtually have to change everything.

 

[Solbliminal]

Would it? The normal Ice Climbers only take one slot, so if they were cloned from them, it should work with only one... right?

I think I read a comment by Eternal Yoshi once that said Nana was an article for Popo... though, what do I know about articles?

EDIT: Found it on Kitty Corp. It's the first one on the page.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=53347.810

Well that is...odd... I thought that folder for Nana was a separate character from Popo. That is how it was always explained to me as well. If Kat an Ana take one slot, then go for it. But I still think Ashley is the superior choice here.

 

[Shin F.]

Well that is...odd... I thought that folder for Nana was a separate character from Popo. That is how it was always explained to me as well. If Kat an Ana take one slot, then go for it. But I still think Ashley is the superior choice here.

Yeah, so did I, but then I read that thread about a month ago and I'm not sure about how it works any more. Anyways, I would accept either Ashley or KatAna with open arms.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Honestly you wouldn't even have to mimic the FE spells though. Smash Bros generally does a half-***** job when it comes to sticking with canon. Just look at Zelda; her Din's Fire is completely different. Roy never got his ranged attack. And then there's Ganondorf. Overall, Zelda's body type is much, much easier to clone than Ness, and you can just simply light-ify her spells (or adjust them a lot, which they can probably do). The biggest thing is that most of her normal attacks can just be slightly modified. This is a HUGE timesaver. Then for a down B, you can have that Pika Thunder-like attack. And if you go with Ness as a base, you'd virtually have to change everything.

You do have a point that cloning off of Zelda would save a lot of time. But I wasn't going for a time saving moveset. I was trying to give a near perfect emulation of Micaiah in Smash, which is what a lot of FE fans would like, rather than a Luigi-fied Zelda (though most of the FE fanbase wouldn't want Micaiah at all, but that's another story). While Sakurai doesn't know what canon means, Project M does. Having Micaiah use a lot of Zelda's attacks wouldn't be too fun from an aesthetic or a fighting game standpoint, considering the magic the Clone Engine is capable of.

Cloning off of Ness may not even be possible, but with the information given, I figured that he would be the best option for the best looking moveset (which could take 3000+ hours to make, I dunno). Not trying to offend you, just giving my two cents.

 

[Anti Guy]

You do have a point that cloning off of Zelda would save a lot of time. But I wasn't going for a time saving moveset. I was trying to give a near perfect emulation of Micaiah in Smash, which is what a lot of FE fans would like, rather than a Luigi-fied Zelda (though most of the FE fanbase wouldn't want Micaiah at all, but that's another story). While Sakurai doesn't know what canon means, Project M does. Having Micaiah use a lot of Zelda's attacks wouldn't be too fun from an aesthetic or a fighting game standpoint, considering the magic the Clone Engine is capable of.

Cloning off of Ness may not even be possible, but with the information given, I figured that he would be the best option for the best looking moveset (which could take 3000+ hours to make, I dunno). Not trying to offend you, just giving my two cents.

Yeah, as long as you know what you're talking about and making a "near perfect emulation" is pretty much a fantasy.

Micaiah is already a super long shot as it is, and the only way you can sell is as a Zelda clone to make it an easy job for the PMBR.

 

[trojanpooh]

I've been awhile for a few days and god damn has this thread devolved into a load. Slot counting? Smash 4 speculation? I believe I read that how a character plays shouldn't be an argument in future polls? Rosalina likely in 4? Female reps being somehow better just because boobs? I mean, it was bad before but this is just sickening.

 

[Anti Guy]

I've been awhile for a few days and god damn has this thread devolved into a load. Slot counting? Smash 4 speculation? I believe I read that how a character plays shouldn't be an argument in future polls? Rosalina likely in 4? Female reps being somehow better just because boobs? I mean, it was bad before but this is just sickening.

...what? Aside from some Smash 4 speculation and some random comment on Rosalina, none of the rest happened. You sure your reading comprehension's intact?

 

[Yeerk]

...what? Aside from some Smash 4 speculation and some random comment on Rosalina, none of the rest happened. You sure your reading comprehension's intact?

I don't think you understood him. He said he's been awhile.

I believe I read that how a character plays shouldn't be an argument in future polls?

If that's referring to my post, you've got it pretty wrong.

 

[Yeerk]

oops double post

 

[CardiganBoy]

Ok i wanna give Ninten a Half-vote

 

[ZaTaisho]

This would be the top 10 characters I would like to see implemented for Project M:

10 - Rayman (Not listed; It could happen...)
09 - King K. Rool
08 - Shadow the Hedgehog (I can see potential in his Moveset like Chaos Spear, Chaos Control, and even use the arsenal of weapons he uses)
07 - Dixie Kong
06 - Lyn
05 - Goemon (Not listed; Would be a good addition)
04 - Waluigi
03 - Ridley
02 - Krystal
01 - Bomberman (Not listed; Definitely a must-have character!)

 

[AnOkayDM]

This would be the top 10 characters I would like to see implemented for Project M:

10 - Rayman (Not listed; It could happen...)
09 - King K. Rool
08 - Shadow the Hedgehog (I can see potential in his Moveset like Chaos Spear, Chaos Control, and even use the arsenal of weapons he uses)
07 - Dixie Kong
06 - Lyn
05 - Goemon (Not listed; Would be a good addition)
04 - Waluigi
03 - Ridley
02 - Krystal
01 - Bomberman (Not listed; Definitely a must-have character!)

Rayman and Bomberman are bot ineligible.

 

[ZaTaisho]

Rayman and Bomberman are bot ineligible.

Thanks, nice to know.

 

[Anti Guy]

Rayman and Bomberman are bot ineligible.

And Goemon. Either way, he didn't even follow the voting rules...

 

[AnOkayDM]

And Goemon. Either way, he didn't even follow the voting rules...

I don't know who that is, whoops.

 

[ZaTaisho]

This is Goemon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystical_Ninja_Starring_Goemon

I know some weren't on the voting list, but I tried to make some additions if possible.