NC Brocator Thread!

[lord karn]

We realize it as well, Theo. It's expected, and your friends expect such self-awareness.



And, uhh...

It just doesn't seem necessary to me to make any changes to Peach or Jigglypuff.


This goes especially for Jigglypuff, who, IMO, can be argued for the #1 position on the NTSC tier list (along with four other characters).


Peach, if anything, could be made a little better, though I fear that even minor tweaks can tip a character out of balance.... So, I don't think that I have the wisdom to describe what specifically needs changing. Perhaps making U-air and D-air more combo-friendly, but increasing the knockback of another fast option to compensate for removing a kill move.

Peach needs a better way to maneuver herself around the stage. Either faster ground speed or perhaps make her jump speed higher and allow her to pressure top platforms more easily. The problem with peach is that she is zoned way too easily. She's good because she has really fast moves that are strong and stay out for a while. The problem is she is slow and has no range. Fox/Marth/Sheik can just run away and defensively space way too easily against her and just swat her out of the air as she is desperately chasing you or just shoot lasers/needles. Peach is good when people don't play gay and run into her moves.

I also think that some of peach's gay characteristics should be changed too. Make downsmash not as stupid (not broken, just stupid) and take out death radishes.

 

[stingers]

i wonder if armada would beat a fox who just ran away and platform camped the whole time o.O

 

[lord karn]

i wonder if armada would beat a fox who just ran away and platform camped the whole time o.O

If I remember correctly Lucky played pretty gay vs. him at Genesis 1 on dreamland and took that match. He lost on both yoshi's and pokemon, I think, which is funny considering so many people think fox does really well on those levels vs. peach.

 

[Mahone]

Armada would argue it

Damn you win again PP, good stuff....

Actually i don't really know if he would... i think he thinks that puff is unfairly easy to play, broken in teams, and he is really good against peach, but i would be surprised to hear that he thinks puff is the best character overall... you probably know better than i do though

 

[Dr Peepee]

I saw his post about it a few months after G1, but I don't know if that has changed because that bit won't post more lol.

Not saying I win or anything but I'm trying to bring all the info out haha.

 

[Mahone]

I saw his post about it a few months after G1, but I don't know if that has changed because that bit won't post more lol.

Not saying I win or anything but I'm trying to bring all the info out haha.

Well either way, i shouldn't of brought up the fact that no top player thinks it, since that isn't a good argument anyway since most of them are biased and pretty bitter when they lose.... more importantly, i would like to hear arguments for why jiggs is the best vs someone like fox.... and for the record i don't think jiggs is bad, i think she is capable of winning otherwise i probably wouldn't play her lol...

i think she's like 5th best, but its weird cuz one of her big weaknesses is that she doesn't just **** a lot of the mid tiers like the characters above her, she still has pretty even matchups against like ics, falcon, ganon, pikachu, etc... and some of her harder matchups are random characters like ylink and doc....

I think if only the top 5 characters were played she would be better, cuz she loses to fox and marth and beats falco and sheik.... fox would still be better in that situation though

 

[Dr Peepee]

She gets a lead and then can't lose it when planking I suppose. Rests and gimps bring comebacks, which aren't as likely vs her without getting a few more reads on her(depends on matchup and %).

I could probably assume more for this theory but I'll see what you think about that much. I don't buy into it but I could sure as heck act like I believe it lol.

 

[Mahone]

She gets a lead and then can't lose it when planking I suppose. Rests and gimps bring comebacks, which aren't as likely vs her without getting a few more reads on her(depends on matchup and %).

I could probably assume more for this theory but I'll see what you think about that much. I don't buy into it but I could sure as heck act like I believe it lol.

Dude, im not gonna argue with you when i know you don't think jiggs is in contention for first lol... shouldn't you be getting super drunk right now

 

[Dr Peepee]

Shouldn't you be debunking central puff theories ur on the boards

I had a sip of wine earlier

 

[ph00tbag]

Puff isn't a contender for best character in the game.

 

[ph00tbag]

Puff is the best character in the game.

 

[Mahone]

Shouldn't you be debunking central puff theories ur on the boards

I had a sip of wine earlier

Dude i can't even understand your post, your words are so slurred, i don't think you are thinking strait

Puff isn't a contender for best character in the game.

Puff is the best character in the game.

Ya there you go, see i can agree with this guy cuz he didn't hedge like a *****... he has confidence it what he says

 

[stingers]

mahone u coming to ncsu dawg?

 

[Dark Hart]

Pp, get flowin to ncsu

 

[Dr Peepee]

How would I do that??

 

[Mahone]

mahone u coming to ncsu dawg?

probably, but some personal issues came up so we'll see...

 

[Dr Peepee]

Wait really? When will you know by?

 

[Mahone]

i'm not to sure, but im like 90% confirmed

 

[Dark Hart]

How would I do that??

Iunno your PppPppP0=0=000=pPpppopPp

 

[Dr Peepee]

I have no way to contact him lol.

and aight mahone keep me updated please. hope you can still make it dude =)

 

[0Room]

I'm slowly realizing how good Falcon actually is
[talking about characters being good/bad]

Pretty much I feel like his MUs are

Hard:
Spacies

50/50: [in order of difficulty/experience needed to win]
Sheik
Marth
Jiggs
Peach

Agree/Disagree?
Falcon can wreck semi floaties/floaties pretty hard when he gets a hit in
And he can easily control the match with his speed [Marth being the only exception, to a point]
So I personally believe that's his Match ups

 

[Dr Peepee]

Depends on how you learn. Thumbs learned a ton about spacies but crippled his floaty game in doing so.

On an even spread, then maybe those things could be true, but in this metagame where puff got weirder then maybe puff requires more experience for most people....

Fox is worse than Falco for Falcon. Does Falcon's game better than him where at least Falcon can maneuver around Falco. Also, Fox's Nair rofl.

Sheik is probly in a tier between the two you have(maybe with puff?) because sheik's harrrrd for Falcon still, but I dunno if it's as bad as spacies or not. Sheik's weird but great lol.

 

[0Room]

Well you can still 0-death Sheik with [relative] ease once you understand how both your characters work, same way you can against Marth though slightly differently
Obviously DI and stuff gets in the way of that, but the potential of comboing Sheik at 25% exists

But yes it's definitely Sheik first as far as hardest under spacies
All the others are kind of personal preference
And I definitely agree Fox > Falco when it comes to Falcon
Fox's nair sticks out weird

But having a guaranteed dthrow->knee makes everything wonderful against Jiggs/Peach
And uthrow->knee at certain percentages makes Sheik/Marth bearable

So [shrugs]

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well Falcon should be tech chasing/punishing spacies fairly hard on reads too, especially past like 45% or something. He also gets upthrow knee/fsmash on them at fair killing percents.

I was talking more about neutral game though lol. Guess I should factor in spacies are harder to punish overall, even at top level.

 

[0Room]

Oh okay. I just didn't make that distinction

But yes at neutral I think CF is at a disadvantage
When they can nair anything you do on reaction

That makes it really frustrating

 

[SK919]

60-40 Shiek imo.

Shiek wins in neutral and her game off a down throw is bull**** buttttt if you bring yourself to a high level you should be able to capitalize off a hit HARD. Falcon's combo potential on sheik is nuts but if you don't have that ability to consistently destroy after getting that one precious hit then you will have problems.

That's how I look at it. Shiek will probably always win the match up because her moves in general stop falcon in his tracks an ya know tope chase but... falcon's speed and punishment game is off the charts.. you have to be creative in neutral to get those opportunities to punish her.. baits are important.. critical.. Getting the first stock helps a lot because now shiek has to take more risk if she wants to even up the match. So now she has to approach you essentially and you can find more situations to punish her out of your dash dance for approaching...


yeah.. uh doable but hard match up. You gotta be technical to get it done imo. Consistent as ****

 

[bossa nova ♪]

i know it was a while ago, but actually PP i wouldn't nerf ANYONE in melee besides sheik.

i would only make characters better



sheik is the best char in melee though. that dthrow needs to go.

 

[Dr Peepee]

So you'd prefer PAL then since sheik's Dthrow isn't as potent in that game, or is everything else that comes with it not worth it?

 

[AlcyoNite]

I think nerfing sheik vs fox is bs personally

if ur gonna nerf sheik, nerf fox too

 

[bossa nova ♪]

i think PAL is a better version of melee, yes



it's melee though, i'm giddy playing either one

 

[stingers]

until you use falcos dair
then you'll come right back to us

 

[Dr Peepee]

One never really means to hit with the weak part(except when edgeguarding), so that isn't that big of a difference to me.

I talked to Faab once and he said it felt weaker in PAL though, which would definitely make me sad LOL

 

[stingers]

I use the weak part a lot
but im bad

fh rising dair traps *****
or using it at the apex of your jump then fastfalling with the weak part
its fun!

 

[Dr Peepee]

Most people don't though is my point. Obviously there are great ways like that to use it. I mean I do it too but I could learn to get along without it because the strong part stays out a while as it is.

 

[OmniOstrich]

imo it's more the fact that you can meteor cancel it (and marth's dair, though that's less important)

 

[Dr Peepee]

Can't meteor cancel Falco's Dair in PAL

only Marth's lol

 

[Dark Hart]

... Dair isn't a meteor in PAL??

God damnit tonberry, ****in liar

 

[AlcyoNite]

That would make me love PAL

 

[rhan]

Theo. You should bring a PAL copy back! <3

 

[Ocean]

[deleted.]