Motion Control competition

[Crimson King]

Do you really think it's a coincidence that for seven consecutive generations of consoles, the weakest hardware has always had the best sales? From a purely mathmatical standpoint, the odds of that happening are too low for coincidence to be a feasible explanation. It is the single most consistent way for determining which console will have the best sales, after all.

Do you just say things without actually checking the facts?

SNES used 16 bit with 3.56 Mhtz processor. The Genesis used 16-bit with an older processor type, and the SNES won, when the Genesis was either equal or lesser in power.

The PS1 beat the Sega Saturn while having a 32-Bit Processor as Saturn did but running it at 33 mhtz, while the Saturn's ran around 28, making the Saturn slower than the PS1.

So, basically your claims are completely made-up. Companies that win console battles are the ones who have the most games to attract fan bases. If you look in the past, PS1 and PS2 had the fewest peripherals as well. The 64 had the rumble pack and expansion bay, the latter being required to play some games, while PS1 just had the Dual Shock.

For PS2 gen, all the consoles lacked much in the realm of peripherals, and hardware was relatively close enough that games could be made across the board. The reason the GCN failed was because it didn't have mass appeal.

With the Wii and motion capture, it, for the time, was a big thing. Nintendo has a 50 million market share, while 360 has 30, and PS3 has 22. Sony is sticking to their 10-year console life line (Which it has done since the PS1 if you count the times it over lapped with the next gen) and MS has commented on wanting to do the same thing, so that gives the two more powerful consoles until 2016 and 2015, respectively, to gain enough supporters to surpass Nintendo. The only way they can really do that is to take market share from Nintendo, and one of the ways of doing that is to take nichés that Nintendo has tapped into and innovate it. With the Natal as far as I can see, Microsoft has best integrated motion capture into the console overall. With the Wii, you have a remote, and with Sony's, you have the sticks, but with Natal you have your hands to do most of the work. Two of the best things I saw in the video were the ability to add your gear to the game and the ability to scroll through menus from your couch using your hands. Both seemed quite neat and quirky, and if they work, I think that will be a huge advancement over the WiiMotes.

My concerns with Natal are application and range. I know with the PS3 Eye if you are too close, the camera won't work. Also, if you have any dark rooms or spots of light, it will conflict with the image. For example, I have a large closet in the room with the PS3, and the camera reads that area as a dead zone. If I walk in front of it, I am gone from view. I would like to see how Natal will work around this. Also, application: I HATE how every Wii game uses the WiiMote. I find the controls uncomfortable, forced, and unnatural. Also, the games feel so much shorter and easier with the WiiMote. I remember playing RE on the other consoles, and head shots were easy, but not as easy as in RE4 Wii. It was so bad that I rarely died once I got into a comfortable position where I was sitting and could aim with ease. Add in the fact that a ton of Wii Games feel just like Tech Demos, and that is pretty much my concern with Natal. I think things like Natal are awesome, but they should be an alternative way to control a game, much like how the PC lets you use a joystick, game pad, or mouse and keyboard in some games. The transition is seamless, and the customization allows me to play the game as I want. If Natal could somehow let you change the controls in any game to accommodate a player's preference, I can see this becoming a huge thing. For example, when I am by myself, I may not feel like playing Halo 3 with full motion control, but with friends, I may want to show it off. If you can customize the options to allow this, I see the games offering a richer experience overall rather than the forced "Deal with it or don't play" manner that Nintendo has adopted.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Do you just say things without actually checking the facts?

SNES used 16 bit with 3.56 Mhtz processor. The Genesis used 16-bit with an older processor type, and the SNES won, when the Genesis was either equal or lesser in power.

The PS1 beat the Sega Saturn while having a 32-Bit Processor as Saturn did but running it at 33 mhtz, while the Saturn's ran around 28, making the Saturn slower than the PS1.

So, basically your claims are completely made-up. Companies that win console battles are the ones who have the most games to attract fan bases. If you look in the past, PS1 and PS2 had the fewest peripherals as well. The 64 had the rumble pack and expansion bay, the latter being required to play some games, while PS1 just had the Dual Shock.

I don't know enough about the PS1/Saturn generation (except historically the North American branch of Sega pretty much gave up on the system in advanced, and that it had two CPUs instead of one), but I believe you are forgetting about several crucial Genesis add-ons that made it more powerful than the SNES. Such as Sega CD and 32X.

And blast processing lol.

Now, I suppose you could say that the Wii has the most games to attract fanbases. I suppose you could also say the quanity of games on a console is caused by the popularity of the console attracting new publishers, not the other way around.

I mean seriously, why wouldn't the leading console be given the most support?

I remember playing RE on the other consoles, and head shots were easy, but not as easy as in RE4 Wii. It was so bad that I rarely died once I got into a comfortable position where I was sitting and could aim with ease.

FPS's and 3rd person shooters are supposed to be that easy to control. If you are having more difficulty with the aiming of other consoles, then you understand why the wii system is a better system for shooters. The shortcoming is that because the control scheme is obviously significantly superior, the games have to be played at a harder difficulty level to compensate for the added ease of use.

The Wii was really built for shooters more than any other genre, IMO.

Weakest doesn't = high sales. What everyone is forgetting about is the affordability of the cheaper console as well as the principle of supply & demand. It not coincidental like you say. What matters is how they play the game called marketing.

But the gamecube was cheaper and more powerful than the PS2.

By the way, saleswise, Motion plus wins. These kinds of peripherals rarely do well in the market, and the motion plus is being sold at only $10 when packaged with the corresponding software rather than being sold seperately. That still only brings the price of the game itself up to the average cost of a typical PS3 or Xbox 360 game ($60). I can tell at a glance that neither Microsoft's nor Sony's new control setups will be less than $50 without software, and they'll probably cost much more than that.

 

[Cashed]

Halloween Captain analyst of the century right here.

 

[DivineBlade]

But the gamecube was cheaper and more powerful than the PS2.

By the way, saleswise, Motion plus wins. These kinds of peripherals rarely do well in the market, and the motion plus is being sold at only $10 when packaged with the corresponding software rather than being sold seperately. That still only brings the price of the game itself up to the average cost of a typical PS3 or Xbox 360 game ($60). I can tell at a glance that neither Microsoft's nor Sony's new control setups will be less than $50 without software, and they'll probably cost much more than that.

But you can be too sure and conclusive that it would do good based on your opinion. Let's face it, marketing new peripherals and setups is no different from gambling. You can be the most deserving person or influential in the world but it deosn't mean you're gonna win. Same goes for business, you have to be at the right place and at the right time to guarantee your success. We can all see that this component is what is needed, but the mass media may think in a different way and look for something you never bothered looking into.

Natal IMO is a double-edged sword, it brings a fresh new way of interacting with gaming but at the same time seems almost impossible to adapt to this concept, whatever Microsoft was doing in the past to remain successful, it's not going to work here. As for the WiiMotion Plus, we see it as beneficial to a new dimension of gameplay, but everyone else is gonna see its no different from the Wii Remote despite it upgrading the capabilities of motion control.

 

[Crimson King]

By the way, saleswise, Motion plus wins. These kinds of peripherals rarely do well in the market, and the motion plus is being sold at only $10 when packaged with the corresponding software rather than being sold seperately. That still only brings the price of the game itself up to the average cost of a typical PS3 or Xbox 360 game ($60). I can tell at a glance that neither Microsoft's nor Sony's new control setups will be less than $50 without software, and they'll probably cost much more than that.

The motion plus is going for $20 without software. If you intend to play games, as Nintendo made them, with four players, you will have to shell out at minimum $80. To put that into perspective you buy a $250 Wii with one game, one nunchunk, and one Wii Mote. You add $80 per control set for 3 full controllers. That's $240 + $250 = $490 with Wii Sports/Whatever game may have Wii Motion Plus packaged. That's $90 more than a PS3 is selling for now, which is called the most expensive console. For the late adopters/people who wanted to wait a while for the Wii to get games, they are screwed if they don't want to spend all that money on the complete, Wii Experience.

Natal will likely be around $100. If it can do what I suggested, that is allow the controls to work in ANY game in an option, it will blow away Wii Motion Plus.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Halloween Captain analyst of the century right here.

Thank you.

The motion plus is going for $20 without software. If you intend to play games, as Nintendo made them, with four players, you will have to shell out at minimum $80. To put that into perspective you buy a $250 Wii with one game, one nunchunk, and one Wii Mote. You add $80 per control set for 3 full controllers. That's $240 + $250 = $490 with Wii Sports/Whatever game may have Wii Motion Plus packaged. That's $90 more than a PS3 is selling for now, which is called the most expensive console. For the late adopters/people who wanted to wait a while for the Wii to get games, they are screwed if they don't want to spend all that money on the complete, Wii Experience.

Natal will likely be around $100. If it can do what I suggested, that is allow the controls to work in ANY game in an option, it will blow away Wii Motion Plus.

You're thinking of it wrong.

I have found that most people simply don't own 4 wii-motes and nun-chucks. I myself own only two, one of them coming with the system, and the other one from wii play. When I want to play wii with friends, I rarely ever use more than two wii-motes, and it is not uncommon for people to bring extra wii-motes to their friend's house.

Wii-mote w/ Nunchuck #1 - packaged with wii.
Wii-mote #2 - packaged with wii-play.
Nunchuck #2 - bought because of second wii-mote.
Motion plus #1 - packaged with wii sports resort
Motion plus #2 - packaged with Tiger Woods PGA Tour '09.

I'm not arguing that Natal isn't better, but at the very least, Motion plus will sell much, much better, as one wii system will often have multiple motion pluses, as you often need one per controller. It's also conveniently packaged with a lot of games, which will really boost it's incorperation. Although I could see a lot of people only buying one motion plus and using it to play only 1-player/online/golf games.

Now the sony product requires you buy 8 wii-mote like controllers and an eye toy for a full set-up. As the typical wii-mote costs $40, that just isn't happening.

EDIT: To be clear, I am counting 1 purchase of a game packaged with wii motion plus as 1 wii motion plus sale, in addition to the $20 standalone wii motion plus.

 

[Firus]

At this point of time, the argument is worthless. Introducing a new controller this late in this generation too me is a bad idea, especially that we all know the Wii won the console race, despite what we want to think.

It certainly won sales-wise, but I'd like to think that the fact that it said "Screw you" to long-time fans in so many ways counts for something...

I notice no one mentioned the PS3 Eye, which had a mic built in for voice commands (never used or used sparingly), can detect multiple people and action, etc. It was still only 2D, but it's a better comparison than the EyeToy.

I didn't actually know that existed, so that's why I didn't mention it.

As I stated before, I hate motion controls. The forced innovation is so constricting and leaves most games with so little to work with. Most games that I have played that were strictly Wiimote based were really shallow games that didn't provide a great experience. Take Galaxy. It was a fun game, but I hated how easy it was in terms of being unable to actually lose all your lives. By the time I hit less than 5, I'd get a letter giving me more. With this in mind, what is my incentive to not actually strategize and just run into things hoping something works?

I agree...to be honest, I'd rather see something like the EyeToy which is interesting for a few things, but doesn't go overboard and invade the entire system, than something like motion sensor which is used in basically EVERY GAME on the Wii. The EyeToy may have died down and have been pretty useless, but at least it didn't ruin the entire console for anyone who wasn't a fan of it.

When motion sensor is used well and added only when necessary more than 1 time out of 20 (it's probably currently even less than that), I'll like it.

I don't know enough about the PS1/Saturn generation (except historically the North American branch of Sega pretty much gave up on the system in advanced, and that it had two CPUs instead of one), but I believe you are forgetting about several crucial Genesis add-ons that made it more powerful than the SNES. Such as Sega CD and 32X.

And blast processing lol.

Yeah, those were so crucial that they were used a whole lot and were bought by everyone, and didn't flop at all.

Look, I love the Genesis, but it simply wasn't as powerful as the SNES. There are a myriad of games on both SNES and Genesis. Try playing both versions and notice how they're different.

You're thinking of it wrong.

I have found that most people simply don't own 4 wii-motes and nun-chucks. I myself own only two, one of them coming with the system, and the other one from wii play. When I want to play wii with friends, I rarely ever use more than two wii-motes, and it is not uncommon for people to bring extra wii-motes to their friend's house.

Oh, but what happened to the Wii bringing families together? Kind of hard to play the Wii with your family if you've only got one or two Wiimotes, unless you're playing a controller-swap game.

GAMERS don't generally own four controllers. But the wave of people who'd never touched a video game before this generation will not be the kind to have a bunch of gamer friends to hang out with and play Wii with.

I'm not arguing that Natal isn't better, but at the very least, Motion plus will sell much, much better, as one wii system will often have multiple motion pluses, as you often need one per controller. It's also conveniently packaged with a lot of games, which will really boost it's incorperation. Although I could see a lot of people only buying one motion plus and using it to play only 1-player/online/golf games.

Saying that Motion+ will sell better because each system will have multiple Motion+'s is like saying that the grass is green because it's green. Obviously if someone has to buy three Motion+'s it's going to sell more than something you only have to buy one of.

I'd say the comparison point is how much money is made from each thing.

Motion+ is going to sell better anyways, because everyone and their grandma (literally) is going to at least be buying Wii Sports Resort. It's like how Wii Sports became the best-selling game of all time. Yeah, it's packaged with something everyone's going to get...it's going to sell really well. Even a lot of gamers enjoy Wii Sports (though I got bored of it after a month or so).

I would honestly be surprised if Motion+ didn't sell best, even money-wise, but I don't think the comparison point is how many, even taking that into account. Theoretically, even if Motion+ sells 4x as many as Natal, assuming Natal sells for $100, Microsoft is still making $20 more on each Natal sold. Sales only really matter for advertising and to people buying the games, to the company itself, it matters how much money is made.

 

[Crimson King]

Thank you.

Cashed was being sarcastic.

Also, Sony's motion sensor was said to come with two sticks. So, that's 2 - 4 sets you'd have to buy if you wanted to play with friends. Most of my friends found PS3 Eye boring, and all of them lost interest in Wii, so I really only need one at most.

With Natal, if it can do something good and integrate itself into games as an option, I can see myself getting a 360 just to try it out.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Cashed was being sarcastic.

Also, Sony's motion sensor was said to come with two sticks. So, that's 2 - 4 sets you'd have to buy if you wanted to play with friends. Most of my friends found PS3 Eye boring, and all of them lost interest in Wii, so I really only need one at most.

With Natal, if it can do something good and integrate itself into games as an option, I can see myself getting a 360 just to try it out.

I can't sense internet sarcasm.

If you really want the core experience though, obviously the motion plus will be best. Natal and Sony are in the tech demo stages, where their devices will pretty much be home to software that will demonstrate the capabilities of the devices (minigames). It would be nearly impossible for a big budget (3rd party) game to come out for them as no publisher could justify the expense. Hence, no core games.

Motion plus, on the other hand, specifically functions to make the wii control set-up more accurate, and can be packaged in with any game that needs it without pricing itself out of the market. The only reason a publisher would use motion plus is to make the games it's compatible with have better, more complex motion controls than the default wii-mote set up - in other words, it was built with the purpose of making core games that use motion controls.

 

[Crimson King]

Wow, you would have been one of the first to drink Jim Jones' Kool-Aid as long as he promised it'd be better than anyone elses, wouldn't you?

Motion Plus will just make the WiiMote 1:1. There is nothing magical about it. If developers don't want to make games that utilize it, nothing will change. With Natal, there is the chance to at least integrate it into games. If they do, it'll be amazing. I notice you refuse to acknowledge that point I am making. If Natal is used as an optional control type, it will be the best control set-up ever.

 

[DivineBlade]

Wow, you would have been one of the first to drink Jim Jones' Kool-Aid as long as he promised it'd be better than anyone elses, wouldn't you?

I know you mean well but being part Guyanese, I take a little offense to that.

 

[Crimson King]

Jim Jones was a murderer who convinced 909 people that he was the messiah and they should follow him into death. I know exactly what I meant.

 

[DivineBlade]

Jim Jones was a murderer who convinced 909 people that he was the messiah and they should follow him into death. I know exactly what I meant.

No what I meant was that I took offense to you applying it to this discussion which has nothing to do with the thread. And you meant well as of defending your opinion. I'm offended because of people labeling my kind as deranged murderers. I hope you don't think I'm defending this guy.

Besides we're getting off topic.

 

[Firus]

If you really want the core experience though, obviously the motion plus will be best.

We haven't used any of the three technologies, there is absolutely NO way of making this judgment. For all we know none of them are any good or all of them will revolutionize gaming in their own way.

Natal and Sony are in the tech demo stages, where their devices will pretty much be home to software that will demonstrate the capabilities of the devices (minigames).

And...the Wii isn't still doing this, about 2.5 years after it came out?

It would be nearly impossible for a big budget (3rd party) game to come out for them as no publisher could justify the expense. Hence, no core games.

Wh...what?

Motion plus, on the other hand, specifically functions to make the wii control set-up more accurate, and can be packaged in with any game that needs it without pricing itself out of the market. The only reason a publisher would use motion plus is to make the games it's compatible with have better, more complex motion controls than the default wii-mote set up - in other words, it was built with the purpose of making core games that use motion controls.

Um, Wii Sports Resort has Motion+, and it's definitely not core. You could've argued before the Wii came out that motion sensor would only be used to immerse you in the game and make it core.

The same thing applies to Motion+. Say what you will, we cannot say that it'll only be core games with it until we actually see how it turns out, and given what we've seen so far, it doesn't necessarily look promising.

No what I meant was that I took offense to you applying it to this discussion which has nothing to do with the thread. And you meant well as of defending your opinion. I'm offended because of people labeling my kind as deranged murderers. I hope you don't think I'm defending this guy.

It was a metaphor for him to basically say "You'll eat anything up, won't you?", so it actually was related...

No one's...labeling your kind as anything. If someone talked about Al Capone being a bad person, I'm not going to be offended just because I'm Italian...

 

[bball2012]

I don't think either Natal or Sony's solution will be able to make a significant impact in the short term. Wii is already in 50 million+ homes. The number will probably be 75 million+ by the time competing motion controls are released. What will compel developers to produce content for a peripheral vs. the fastest-selling console of all time? I don't see it happening, unless Microsoft and Sony are extremely aggressive and a) make their devices extremely affordable and b) pack them in with every system sold.

Another problem they will run into is the distinctness of the two control methods. PS360 has succeeded so far, despite being expensive to develop for and less popular than the Wii, because the combined userbase of the two consoles is pretty big and lots of publishers have found multiplatform success. But it will be a lot more difficult to create cross-platform games that effectively use both Natal and Sony's wand. So suddenly there is even less incentive to develop for it.

Both companies have talented first party studious, though, so hopefully they will make some interesting stuff.

Ultimately I think it's all just a feeling-out process and Sony and Microsoft are hoping to be better positioned for next gen. In the short term I don't think it will affect console sales or the kinds of games being produced very much.

 

[Brawler1432]

Hate to stray from Natal, but the title implies all motion controller so:

Who do you think would win if Sony's motion controller face Wii motion plus.

They both claim to be 1:1

Personally the archery I saw at the Nintendo conference looked closely accurate as the sony motion controller.

If I'm not mistaken they use different technology

As cool as it is and everything that Sony came out with the motion controller, you think they could have not made a wii-mote2 like they did, especially when very similar tech was coming out of Nintendo.

At least Microsoft added a lot in copying the eye toy.


EDIT:

I don't think either Natal or Sony's solution will be able to make a significant impact in the short term. Wii is already in 50 million+ homes. The number will probably be 75 million+ by the time competing motion controls are released. What will compel developers to produce content for a peripheral vs. the fastest-selling console of all time? I don't see it happening, unless Microsoft and Sony are extremely aggressive and a) make their devices extremely affordable and b) pack them in with every system sold.

Another problem they will run into is the distinctness of the two control methods. PS360 has succeeded so far, despite being expensive to develop for and less popular than the Wii, because the combined userbase of the two consoles is pretty big and lots of publishers have found multiplatform success. But it will be a lot more difficult to create cross-platform games that effectively use both Natal and Sony's wand. So suddenly there is even less incentive to develop for it.

Both companies have talented first party studious, though, so hopefully they will make some interesting stuff.

Ultimately I think it's all just a feeling-out process and Sony and Microsoft are hoping to be better positioned for next gen. In the short term I don't think it will affect console sales or the kinds of games being produced very much.

All 3 companies are trying to get somewhere different, they are all heading to the same middle ground, but each one has a different thing to fix

Sony: Less expensive, and exclusive technology. More appeal to other types of gamers (dare I even sya they should get more casual) More third party support.

Microsoft: More appeal to other types of gamers ( once again casualish)

Nintendo: Less casual approach. More hardcore games. Better third party support.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Motion Plus will just make the WiiMote 1:1. There is nothing magical about it. If developers don't want to make games that utilize it, nothing will change. With Natal, there is the chance to at least integrate it into games. If they do, it'll be amazing. I notice you refuse to acknowledge that point I am making. If Natal is used as an optional control type, it will be the best control set-up ever.

I understand your point, but it's wrong. What you hope will happen is simply not possible in any of the typical marketting strategies that have been employed for peripherals introduced this late into a console's lifecycle. Microsoft and Sony can only hope to give their peripherals mass market appeal if they use a buisness strategy that they have never before used. Even wii fit with it's 15 million balance board install base failed to attract very many publishers to the balance board.

In other words, I refuse to acknowledge your ideas as a feasible reality, given the knowledge I possess. Now if microsoft uses a radically different buisness model than the one I am accustomed to, such as packing Natals into every Xbox 360 box with a demo game called "Natal Sports", then the reality you propose at least becomes feasible, as standardization begins. That is when I'll know Natal has the potential to be awesome.

My point about the motion plus is that because it only makes the motions more 1:1, very few bad games will employ it. Only games with good controls need motion plus, and as such, I have a hard time picturing much shovelware utilizing it, as that would increase the cost of making a budget title.

EDIT: @ Firus: Define "core." I typically define "core" as "good, fun and deep." Tiger Woods 09 might be considered a core title. Red Steel 2 as well. The exception, for me, is Wii Sports Resort.

It is unlikely you will see a GTA game support Natal. But if it does, it will be awesome. But it is very unlikely to happen.

EDIT 2:

I don't think either Natal or Sony's solution will be able to make a significant impact in the short term. Wii is already in 50 million+ homes. The number will probably be 75 million+ by the time competing motion controls are released. What will compel developers to produce content for a peripheral vs. the fastest-selling console of all time? I don't see it happening, unless Microsoft and Sony are extremely aggressive and a) make their devices extremely affordable and b) pack them in with every system sold.

Another problem they will run into is the distinctness of the two control methods. PS360 has succeeded so far, despite being expensive to develop for and less popular than the Wii, because the combined userbase of the two consoles is pretty big and lots of publishers have found multiplatform success. But it will be a lot more difficult to create cross-platform games that effectively use both Natal and Sony's wand. So suddenly there is even less incentive to develop for it.

Both companies have talented first party studious, though, so hopefully they will make some interesting stuff.

Ultimately I think it's all just a feeling-out process and Sony and Microsoft are hoping to be better positioned for next gen. In the short term I don't think it will affect console sales or the kinds of games being produced very much.

I agree completely.

 

[Cashed]

The Balance Board has seen little support because it's so limited in what it can do. That was also the reason the Eye Toy never took off, it was really limited in what it could do.

GTA would have to be totally revamped to use Natal, and I really can't imagine it ending up anything but terrible.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

The Balance Board has seen little support because it's so limited in what it can do. That was also the reason the Eye Toy never took off, it was really limited in what it could do.

GTA would have to be totally revamped to use Natal, and I really can't imagine it ending up anything but terrible.

I could imagine it if it had a couple peripherals, maybe become an FPS.

When your walking, you use a device like the wii zapper. Driving, you pick up a wii-wheel type peripheral. And a 3rd Nun-chuck type peripheral with a control pad/joystick for running.

Although switching between peripherals every three seconds might be a pain.

Maybe if you held the wheel with joystick in your left hand, and the gun in your right?

The lack of a standardized control set up for in-game movement (such as a joystick) may also limit Natal in what it can do, unless peripherals are made.

 

[Cashed]

That would be stupid.

Though with Natal you could just gesture all of the actions (which I won't list out, they're easy enough to imagine), but it's still something I can't imagine being good.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

That would be stupid.

Though with Natal you could just gesture all of the actions (which I won't list out, they're easy enough to imagine), but it's still something I can't imagine being good.

To be honest, I can't imagine gestering the actions would be a good idea. You simply have to have peripherals, even if they are made entirely out of plastic, for natal to work for pretty much any core game (except maybe RTS's and a couple RPGs). Golf needs a club, racing needs a wheel, FPS's need a gun, Natal needs cheap plastic peripherals.

 

[Crimson King]

To be honest, I can't imagine gestering the actions would be a good idea. You simply have to have peripherals, even if they are made entirely out of plastic, for natal to work for pretty much any core game (except maybe RTS's and a couple RPGs). Golf needs a club, racing needs a wheel, FPS's need a gun, Natal needs cheap plastic peripherals.

That is the Nintendo mindset. They showed a clip of Natal with someone driving quite well, and it looked perfectly fine without worthless peripherals.

 

[Red Exodus]

To be honest, I can't imagine gestering the actions would be a good idea. You simply have to have peripherals, even if they are made entirely out of plastic, for natal to work for pretty much any core game (except maybe RTS's and a couple RPGs). Golf needs a club, racing needs a wheel, FPS's need a gun, Natal needs cheap plastic peripherals.

Why would it need peripherals? I'm pretty sure the entire point of Natal is to create a new type of control without having to use controls.

I personally hate extra peripherals, especially on the Wii. I had to get mine in a bundle so I have an extra nunchuck, a tennis racket and some other ******** stuff I will never use, then there's the Wii Wheel I got with Mario Kart Wii that I never opened. The other peripherals like the Balance Board and Zapper are just not worth the money, I didn't buy a Wii so I could spend more on plastic Wiimote-holders than I do on games and Nintendo continues to encourage this by releasing games like Crossbow Training and Mario Kart Wii [it hardly feels like Mario Kart anymore] as an excuse to use peripherals that would otherwise be useless.

I'm use if the PS3 Eye or Natal throw around too many peripherals it won't be good for business.

 

[metalmonstar]

The Balance Board has seen little support because it's so limited in what it can do. That was also the reason the Eye Toy never took off, it was really limited in what it could do.

GTA would have to be totally revamped to use Natal, and I really can't imagine it ending up anything but terrible.

For its limitation it has gotten decent support. All it can really do are fitness games, snowboarding, skiing, skateboarding, and the likes. Then again though the fitness games have taken off because of it.

My issue with Natal is how will it tell if I am moving forward or not? Will it be able to track small movements such as pretending to pull a trigger. The most important issue is how much will it cost.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

That is the Nintendo mindset. They showed a clip of Natal with someone driving quite well, and it looked perfectly fine without worthless peripherals.

How long were they playing the game?

The reason you need a wheel for a racing game is that it keeps your hands where they need to be for the game to understand your motions. Most people will not naturally keep their hands in the correct positions relative to each other unless a physical aid helps them. At least, I know I won't

Why would it need peripherals? I'm pretty sure the entire point of Natal is to create a new type of control without having to use controls.

I personally hate extra peripherals, especially on the Wii. I had to get mine in a bundle so I have an extra nunchuck, a tennis racket and some other ******** stuff I will never use, then there's the Wii Wheel I got with Mario Kart Wii that I never opened. The other peripherals like the Balance Board and Zapper are just not worth the money, I didn't buy a Wii so I could spend more on plastic Wiimote-holders than I do on games and Nintendo continues to encourage this by releasing games like Crossbow Training and Mario Kart Wii [it hardly feels like Mario Kart anymore] as an excuse to use peripherals that would otherwise be useless.

I'm use if the PS3 Eye or Natal throw around too many peripherals it won't be good for business.

Do you really need to ask why a racing game needs a wheel and a shooting game needs a gun?

The prop is there to help you have better control of the game. It would be very, very difficult to hold your hand in the proper position for a shooting game without a physical object to help you place your hand in the correct position.

I know that my hands tend to drift when I'm not holding something to keep them in the proper place. I could not play Natal without getting frustrated unless the games came packaged with an object I could rely on to guide my hands into the correct positions relative to eachother, especially with a racing game as I often drive with only one hand on the wheel in real life and I doubt natal can handle that.

 

[Mic_128]

The prop is there to help you have better control of the game. It would be very, very difficult to hold your hand in the proper position for a shooting game without a physical object to help you place your hand in the correct position.

I know that my hands tend to drift when I'm not holding something to keep them in the proper place. I could not play Natal without getting frustrated unless the games came packaged with an object I could rely on to guide my hands into the correct positions relative to eachother, especially with a racing game as I often drive with only one hand on the wheel in real life and I doubt natal can handle that.

Go to the kitchen and get a plate. There's your controller. Feel free to mail me the 20 bucks you would have paid for a round piece of plastic.

 

[Red Exodus]

Do you really need to ask why a racing game needs a wheel and a shooting game needs a gun?

The prop is there to help you have better control of the game. It would be very, very difficult to hold your hand in the proper position for a shooting game without a physical object to help you place your hand in the correct position.

I know that my hands tend to drift when I'm not holding something to keep them in the proper place. I could not play Natal without getting frustrated unless the games came packaged with an object I could rely on to guide my hands into the correct positions relative to eachother, especially with a racing game as I often drive with only one hand on the wheel in real life and I doubt natal can handle that.

I'm just looking at it from a consumer's point of view. MS and Sony simply can't ask people to buy the product and then tell them they need to buy a wheel and a gun if they want to use the technology on their games. It wouldn't make sense.

EDIT: Someone beat you to it Mic:

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I'm just looking at it from a consumer's point of view. MS and Sony simply can't ask people to buy the product and then tell them they need to buy a wheel and a gun if they want to use the technology on their games. It wouldn't make sense.

I agree.

However, not programming with the assumption that a player will use a toy gun in an FPS or a paper plate in a racing game would cause problems.

I think the biggest problems come from FPS's, which would benefit the most from headtracking unfortunately. When a person wants to pretend to shoot something, he sticks out his hand, points two fingers, says "bang", and makes a recoil motion. That recoil motion pretty much destroys any sense of accuracy there might have been. A peripheral is pretty much essential, even if you're just buying yourself any old toy gun.

 

[Cashed]

Thankfully you don't work in the industry.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Thankfully you don't work in the industry.

Everyone here assumes that peripherals are inherently a bad thing. It's rather irritating considering that the reason a peripheral becomes popular in the first place is that it offers a level of immersion/interactivity that would otherwise not exist.

I mean, what fun would cosplayer fights be if they didn't wave around lightsabers? NOT COOL MAN!

 

[Firus]

Everyone here assumes that peripherals are inherently a bad thing. It's rather irritating considering that the reason a peripheral becomes popular in the first place is that it offers a level of immersion/interactivity that would otherwise not exist.

I mean, what fun would cosplayer fights be if they didn't wave around lightsabers? NOT COOL MAN!

Peripherals are inherently gimmicks. That's why everyone assumes that.

As has been said, if you're THAT desperate to hold something, get a toy wheel or a plate or something round. Get a toy gun for FPS's.

It is inherently a bad thing if we have to pay $100 for Natal and then another $100 to get each peripheral to go along with it. If you want to play with controllers, that's what the Wii and PS3 are going to do. Natal is clearly aimed to be controller-less, and while I don't really want controller-less gameplay myself just because I enjoy controllers, for Natal I'm not expecting peripherals. It's like expecting a Blackberry to be large and have a real mouse and keyboard, that defeats the purpose of it.

And yeah. Cosplayer fights are definitely comparable to video games, what was I thinking. >_>

 

[Crimson King]

I wish I could rep Firust.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Peripherals are inherently gimmicks. That's why everyone assumes that.

As has been said, if you're THAT desperate to hold something, get a toy wheel or a plate or something round. Get a toy gun for FPS's.

It is inherently a bad thing if we have to pay $100 for Natal and then another $100 to get each peripheral to go along with it. If you want to play with controllers, that's what the Wii and PS3 are going to do. Natal is clearly aimed to be controller-less, and while I don't really want controller-less gameplay myself just because I enjoy controllers, for Natal I'm not expecting peripherals. It's like expecting a Blackberry to be large and have a real mouse and keyboard, that defeats the purpose of it.

And yeah. Cosplayer fights are definitely comparable to video games, what was I thinking. >_>

Buying peripherals that cost $100 dollars would be stupid. Making Natal able to register toy lightsabers as in-game ones would be smart.

Personally, I think cosplayers are fairly comparable to gamers. Especially where the two groups overlap. They're both core fans looking for a level of immersion in their hobby that would otherwise not exist.

If you take away the prop of a cosplayer, they get annoyed because the prop is half the fun of wearing the costume.

I mean come on, would you really play Guitar Hero if it wasn't for the plastic guitar shaped controller?

 

[Red Exodus]

Buying peripherals that cost $100 dollars would be stupid. Making Natal able to register toy lightsabers as in-game ones would be smart.

Wii controllers are pretty close to that price, $60 for the combo and $20 for the motion plus, if all of my friends wanted to use a Wii-wheel or any other peripherals the price would shoot pass that. Thankfully I don't have any multiplayer games that force you to use the Wiimote anyway so I don't have to worry about getting extra controls. No one I know owns a Wii so there's no one to bring their own controller.

I mean come on, would you really play Guitar Hero if it wasn't for the plastic guitar shaped controller?

I don't like RB or GH, partially because of the control and partially the gameplay, I pretty much don't like the whole idea but that's just me, although I can see why other people would like it.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Wii controllers are pretty close to that price, $60 for the combo and $20 for the motion plus, if all of my friends wanted to use a Wii-wheel or any other peripherals the price would shoot pass that. Thankfully I don't have any multiplayer games that force you to use the Wiimote anyway so I don't have to worry about getting extra controls. No one I know owns a Wii so there's no one to bring their own controller.



I don't like RB or GH, partially because of the control and partially the gameplay, I pretty much don't like the whole idea but that's just me, although I can see why other people would like it.

Actually, I don't like Rock Band or Guitar Hero myself. In fact, it's somewhat ironic that I am arguing the way I am, as in general I dont' actually use or like peripherals. I do, however, like having something in my hands which is something that Natal lacks. Whether it's a pen, a video game controller, or a T.V. remote, it's just easier to relax (for me) when I have something in my hands to fiddle with.

Yes, the wii-mote approaches $100's pretty quickly, depending on how you pick up your peripherals. I never buy a peripheral seperate from a game, so the relative cost for myself is considerably lower. I also fail to see why I need the "full wii experience" when I don't need it - so I would only have one wii-wheel (which came with Mario Kart Wii), one motion plus, and no more than two wii-motes anyway. Backwards compatibility with the gamecube controller for games like SSBB and Mario Kart also keep my expenses down, as I don't need to buy extra controllers.

I kind of hoped that no one was shooting for the "full wii experience" when I considered cost - the full experience seems mostly unnecesary. Perhaps another software-based model would be more appropriate? That would be the model by which other than a spare nun-chuck, all peripherals and wii-motes are packaged and purchased with highly popular games, rather than a model that assumes the consumer purchases the many add-ons outside the software bundle.

(All numbers approximate)
Wii: wii sports, wii-mote, nunchuck: $250
Wii play: wii mote: $50
Wii sports resort: wii motion plus: $60
Mario Kart wii: Wii Wheel: $60
Wii Fit: Wii balance board: $90
spare nun chuck: $20

Total cost: $530
software total: 5 games (wii sports, wii fit, wii sports resort, wii play, Mario Kart wii)

You can strike off wii-play from that list, but the rest of the software is highly desired and are reasons people buy wii's in the first place. The approximate cost (without wii play) of the combined peripherals not packaged with the wii would be $80 (assuming typical software cost of $50). That's for the wii-wheel, wii balance board, wii mote, nunchuck, and wii motion plus combined.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

edit: better link

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-co...lls---tobacco--project-natal---graveyard-bids

go to 1:50 specifically if you dont want to watch the amazingness that is colbert.

_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.hulu.com/watch/78622/the-colbert-report-thu-jun-18-2009#s-p1-so-i0

go to 12:21.

This is on topic i promise.

 

[Brawler1432]

http://www.hulu.com/watch/78622/the-colbert-report-thu-jun-18-2009#s-p1-so-i0

go to 12:21.

This is on topic i promise.

Colbert on the money with the new xbox idea.

Natal looks great but boy was he right- "Now a boy who has a skateboard, and the skill to ride a skateboard, will not have to ride a skateboard."