Mother's Boys - The Lucas and Ness FAQ

[Aevin]

Contents

-Guide FAQ

-Quick Character Comparison

-Special Attacks
Ness
Lucas

-PSI Magnet Absorption List

-Smash Attacks
Ness
Lucas

-Tilt and Dash Attacks
Ness
Lucas

-Grabs and Throwing Attacks
Ness
Lucas

-Jumps

-Aerial Attacks
Ness
Lucas

-Ledge and Get-up Attacks

-Basic Character Strategies
Lucas
Ness

-Advanced Character Strategies
Recovery
PKT2 Wall Climbing
Dealing With Ledge Guarding
Shooting Directly into the Ground?
PKT2 as a Combo Finisher
PK Thunder Mind Games
Ledge Guarding
Double Aerial Shuffle (Ness)
Air Stalling with PSI Magnet
Magnet Canceling
More on PK Fire
B-Sticking
Magnet Pulling (Lucas)
Ground-canceling Aerials
Spiking Techniques
Zap Jumping (Lucas)
PK Jumping (Ness)
Firebounding (Ness)
PK Wind (Ness)
Thundersliding
PK Thunder Edge Stall
Ledge Canceled PKT2

-Other Important Notes
Infinte Grabs and Pummels

-Opponent Match-Ups (Under Construction)

-Credits


Guide FAQ

What do you have to offer that other Ness or Lucas guides don't?
What I hope sets this apart from other guides is depth of moves and strategy. This guide will contain detailed information on strategies and approaches, as well as advice on which character to use against certain opponents. As of now, I don't have any nifty pictures, videos or links. What I do have is greater depth on each of the characters' moves and how they can be used in actual battle. The guide will be constantly under construction using my own discoveries and information from readers. I love these characters, and want to help make others be the best they can be with them.

If you have any additions, or believe I've misrepresented something, feel free to contact me. I welcome information from readers, and would gladly share any new information with a credit to whoever provides it.

Why a FAQ for two different characters?
I've said it myself. Ness and Lucas are completely different in play style. In a sense, comparing the two is like comparing Bowser and Diddy Kong. So why write one guide for both characters?

First of all, the two invite comparison due to some of their similar moves.

Second of all, fans of the Mother series and many others intend to play both characters as a fighting team. They each complement some of the other's weaknesses, and make sense to use together.

Thirdly, I think playing both can help improve your game more than playing only one of them. For example, I know that Lucas's reliance on projectiles and tilt attacks has helped me use Ness's more effectively, while my mid-air and grabbing skill with Ness has improved my aerial precision with Lucas.

That, and they're just so friggin' cute together.

Anyway, you should find the guide informative if you play only Ness or only Lucas, but it's really designed for those who main both, or main one with a little of the other. Please don't flame me if you think Ness or Lucas is better than the other.

Why not just make separate sections for Ness and Lucas?
The guide is designed keeping the two characters as a team in mind. I alternated between them in order to invite comparison on their attacks. When reading Lucas's attacks, I want readers to have Ness's abilities fresh in their minds, to compare and understand when one will work better than the other's. This, I hope, will help inform people as to when to choose one character over the other, and improve their abilities with both characters.

Ness and Lucas: Quick Comparison

This guide is aimed at helping players become proficient with both characters, and in using them as a single fighting unit to overcome different kinds of opponents. A huge part of this is knowing when to use Ness and when to use Lucas. Later in the guide is more information on specific match ups, but here's some general info on strengths and weaknesses.

Ness

Ness's biggest strengths lie in his aerial combat. Not only are four out of five of his aerial attacks potentially killers, but they come out and recover very quickly, making them easy to chain together. Ness also has great strength in his grab and throws, which can set up for combos and kill under certain conditions. His smash attacks cover great range but are relatively slow and weak, (even his baseball bat, as I'll discuss later), and his tilts are quick but short ranged.

Ness relies on being able to get close to opponents and chaining together numerous attacks. His air control makes this easy to do. However, when faced with long ranged opponents--especially those who outdo him in the air--Ness is at a disadvantage. Marth, for example, is everything Ness hates. Long ranged attacks both on the ground and in the air ... Ness will be hard pressed to get close to him. Ness does best against huge characters with little range.

Lucas

Fortunately, Ness's shortcomings are in line with Lucas's strengths. Most of Lucas's moves have a high initial knock back, and many of them operate about the same regardless of damage. He's the type to swoop in for quick hits, sending his opponents far enough away to prevent retaliation. This is complemented by his projectiles, which are generally more useful than Ness's.

Lucas also has amazing killing power. His smash attacks do high damage and kill at low percentages. However, they are usually slow or otherwise difficult to land. His tilt attacks and aerials are quick, but require much precision, meaning he'll have to go outside his comfort zone and get close to opponents in order to land them best. Lucas does best against large characters, short-ranged characters, or long-ranged characters who can't quite reach within PK Fire range. He's weak against characters who outdo him in range--a skilled Dedede is like a brick wall.


Special Attacks

Ness

PK Fire (Forward + B) - (6%, 2%)
A short-ranged projectile which creates a pillar of flame on contact, repeatedly hitting opponents for small damage and producing a stunning effect. In the air, the fire will travel at a 45 degree angle down from Ness. Great for surprise attacks or countering chasing opponents in the air. Also great for ledge guarding, and the stun effect sets up easily for other moves such as grabs, spikes or smash attacks. The initial bolt does 6% damage, the pillar hits each do 2%.

PK Thunder (Up + B) - (About 8%)
A very quick projectile which can be directed using the controller. On contact, it deals damage and sends the victim upwards. When steering, Ness's thunder can't make very sharp turns, but travels quickly. Unlike Lucas's version, Ness's hits only once before disappearing, unless you "tail whip" opponents by hitting with the trail behind the thunder ball. This stuns them for a second, and can foul up their recovery in certain cases--or aid in yours. Tail-whipping does 1% damage per hit. By steering the thunder into Ness, you can perform the PK Thunder 2.

PK Thunder 2 (Up + B, steered into Ness) - (21-25%)
When PK Thunder is steered into Ness, there's an explosive effect which propels him forward like an electrified human cannonball. This can be used for recovery, or as an attack. This move KOs at low percentages (around 70% in some cases). When used as a recovery move, it has some weaknesses. In Brawl, the tail has been extended, so sometimes when opponents jump at you they'll be stunned, but there's still the danger of them attacking or leaping into the thunder to cancel it, causing Ness to fall to his doom. The initial blast when the thunder first strikes him has armor (invincibility?) frames and KO's as low as 50%, while the later hits of the move KO above about 120%. Hitting projectiles or opponents halves the distance Ness travels, so be careful when using this for recovery.

PSI Magnet (Down + B)
A field surrounds Ness, absorbing most energy-based projectiles. Comes out much quicker than in Melee, and replenishes 1.5 times the damage the attack would have dealt, but has slightly better range than Lucas's version. The absorption maxes out at 30% per hit. Upon deactivation, it creates a wind effect which can repel projectiles or move certain things a bit. See the advanced strategy section for more on this effect. Psi Magnet can also can be used to stall falling.

PK Flash (Neutral B) - (9-37%)
A green projectile which can be steered left or right. It explodes in a storm of electricity when the B button is released, and the longer it is out, the more powerful it becomes. At full power, it easily KO's opponents. Uncharged, it sends a quick burst above Ness's head which can be used for protection or juggling.

Lucas

PK Fire (Forward + B) - (8%)
Lucas's PK Fire creates a single explosion when it hits, sending the opponent flying away with admirable knock back. Unlike Ness's, it travels straight forward whether in air or on the ground. Great for keeping opponents at a distance, especially when used with B-sticking (covered in advanced strategies).

PK Thunder (Up + B) - (About 10%/hit)
A thunder projectile which can be steered using the controller. It travels slowly, but can make sharp turns. When it hits opponents, it stuns them and passes through, enabling it to be curved back around for another hit. The tail whip deals 1% damage. Steering this move into Lucas creates PK Thunder 2.

PK Thunder 2 (Up + B, steered into Lucas) - (8-43%)
When the thunder hits Lucas, he is propelled forward, surrounded by electricity. It can be used for recovery, and goes much farther than Ness's version. Lucas's PKT2 hits multiple times. The first and the last hit can KO at high percentages, and if every hit connects the move does about 43% damage. Lucas's recovery is more difficult to steal, because opponents can't intercept it with their bodies. They can still attack to cancel the thunder, however. By the way, I LOVE hitting with this move! BBZZZZZZZZZZAP!

PSI Magnet (Down B) - (9%)
A field which absorbs energy-based projectiles. In spite of its appearance, this move protects Lucas from all angles. If a projectile is fired from the back, Lucas turns to absorb it, and if he's under fire from both directions, he will still absorb even though he's unable to turn around. Lucas's version has some added advantages over Ness's. It activates and deactivates more quickly, heals 2 times the projectile's damage, and can be used as an attack. The attack activates when the barrier is DEACTIVATED. It's very quick, centered around Lucas's front, and can KO at high percentages. The absorption power maxes out at 30% damage recovery per hit.

PK Freeze (Neutral B) - (10-19%)
A projectile which can be steered left and right using the controller. When the B button is released, the projectile explodes in a small burst of ice that can freeze opponents. More powerful when out for a longer period of time before detonation. This attack is much faster than Ness's PK Flash, and has greater horizontal distance. This move can KO at high percents, (above 150%).


PSI Magnet Absorption List

Here's a list of what I've personally verified can be absorbed using PSI Magnet. I'll update this list later with specific percentages for both characters, as well as new discoveries. I know this list is incomplete, especially with regard to pokemon and item absorption, so feel free to contribute information. Many thanks to Clinton for providing the character attack percentages and some absorbables I missed. The absorption maxes out at 30% per hit, making the Waddle-doos' multi-hit beam attack the big winner over attacks like PK Flash. Ice Climbers' Blizzard also ranks high.

Pokemon Attacks
-The shooting stars from Staryu's "swift" attack.

Assist Trophy Attacks
-Saki Amamiya's lasers
-Custom Robo's shots

Items
-Super Scope shots
-Fire flower and super spicy curry flames
-Lip's stick spores
-Star rod shots
-Ray gun shots

Stage Hazards
-Arwings' lazers
-The Great Fox's big gun

Subspace Emissary
-Scope Primids' Lasers
-Puppit's shots
-Fire Primids' flame attack (but not their fireballs)
-Gamyga's lasers (The sun-like enemy on the pedestals)
-Galleom and Duon's pink lasers (but none of their other projectiles)

Notable projectiles that cannot be absorbed
-Ice Climbers' Ice shot. Could be in Melee, but can't in Brawl.
-Ivysaur or Chikorita's Razor Leaf
-Sheik's Needles
-Link and Young Link's boomerangs and arrows
-Snake's various explosives
-Samus's missiles
-Squirtle's water attacks
-Torchic's flame aura
-Meowth's coin attack
-All final smashes
-Fire Primids' fireballs (What the heck? ...)


Smash Attacks

Ness

Bat Smash (Forward smash) - (18-33%)
A powerful swing of Ness's bat that connects with a satisfying CRACK! The tip of the bat is the "sweet spot," damaging opponents more and sending them further. This effect is much more pronounced than it was in Melee. When hitting with the tip, it KO's at low percentages, but with the inner part it still doesn't KO at percents in excess of 130%. The bat can also be used for reflecting projectiles back to your opponents. Unlike in Melee, the entire bat reflects.

Around the World (Up Smash) - (4-13%)
A curve of Ness's yoyo over his head. This comes out very quickly in front and can be used as a faster forward smash. It protects Ness completely from above with proper timing. When opponents are hit in front, they'll often be knocked above for a second hit. A great combo starter. It can also be held out in front by holding the button, and serves as a kind of shield. Typically, the yoyo can be held out as long as its termination point is over solid ground. However, if you run at a ledge and do the move on the slide, you can dangle it over ledges. This can be used for ledge-guarding, or--even better--level spiking hanging opponents.

Walk the Dog (Down Smash) - (4-13%)
Ness's yoyo attacks with good range first behind, then in front. It can be a very surprising and quick attack behind, or a delayed and unexpected attack in front. Both yoyo attacks have increased knock back power from Melee, and can KO at VERY high percentages. Similar to the up smash, this can be held out in back as a kind of shield. Great for clearing out surrounding opponents.

Lucas

Stick Smash (Forward Smash) - (15-21%)
Lucas attacks in front with a quick swipe of his stick. This attack is quick, short-ranged, and powerful. Probably Lucas's most reliable killing move. Like Ness's bat, this reflects projectiles back to opponents. The stick does not have a sweet spot effect like Ness's bat, however.

PK Blast (Up Smash) - (12-29%)
Wow. This has been described as the third most powerful up smash in the game, surpassed only by Ivysaur's and Ike's. It has huge range above Lucas, able to hit even through platforms above him, and spreads wide as it goes. The parts closer to Lucas's head are more powerful, and KO at low percentages (around 60% - 70% depending on the character and height of the stage). It also has decent horizontal range, hitting taller characters in front of Lucas. The downfall? It's slow. Opponents see it coming a mile away, and the lag afterwards is so great that if you don't hit, (and sometimes if you DO), you'll be punished. With this move, it's vital to predict when an opponent will be there and do the attack before they arrive. Another strategy is to dash at an opponent and perform the smash while in motion to take them by surprise.

PK Barrage (Down Smash) - (11-23%)
Lucas fires several bursts of psychic energy on the ground in front of him. The sparks can KO opponents, and are large enough to hit from a good distance. The size of the hexagonal sparks also enables Lucas to hit opponents below him, such as those recovering from below the ledge, or those on a platform beneath. Sometimes, opponents will underestimate the duration and range of the attack, running into it when they believe it's finished. This is another attack that is easily punishable and requires careful placement, but can be quite useful when used wisely.


Tilt and Dash Attacks

Ness

Neutral attacks - (2-9%)
A quick, three hit punching and kicking attack. Tap the button three times to execute the combo. Useful for stalling and interrupting, and if the third hit connects it sends opponents away.

Forward Tilt - (11%)
A quick frontal kick with surprising knock back. Good for getting opponents off of you for a second. Does decent damage given the speed of the attack.

Down Tilt - (4%)
A very quick ground kick which can be rapidly chained. In certain cases, it's very hard for opponents to escape. Great for use in ledge-guarding opponents trying to return from below the ledge. In Brawl, this also has a high rate of tripping the opponent.

Up Tilt - (7%)
A "raise the roof" attack with Ness's hands. His hands grow very large due to psychic power. Psychic power. Yeah. Anyway, the attack bounces opponents upwards, and can be repeated easily against heavy opponents for juggling. At very high damages, this can even KO opponents off the top.

Note: Ness's tilts are not very powerful. Generally, they can be used for stalling opponents or keeping them away for a second, but do little damage. Only the up tilt leads easily into other attacks. This is not to say they aren't useful; just use them wisely.

PK Shove (Attack while running) - (4-13%)
Ness's dash attack is great. It sends a series of sparks out from Ness's outstretched hands, three in total. The first two sparks knock opponents outward, and the third knocks them up, directly into the best range for aerial comboing. Since the final spark is far away from Ness's body, it's possible to surprise opponents, hitting with just that one spark. If you miss with that one spark, there should be enough of a space between you and your opponent to prevent retaliation in most cases. A great move which leads easily into combos.

Lucas

Neutral Attacks - (3-10%)
A quick series of kicks, very similar to Ness's. Tap the button three times for the combo. The third hit sends opponents further than Ness's. Kind of impressive, actually.

Forward Tilt - (11%)
I love this move. Lucas swipes his hand in front of him, sending a quick burst of psychic energy out from his hand. This is VERY quick, and has good range for its speed. When hit, enemies fly away--usually directly within PK Fire range, although the move can also KO. This move is easy to pull of out of landings from aerials, and because of the quick recovery after most aerials and the quick start up speed of this attack, it will often take opponents off guard. BZAAAP!!!

Up Tilt - (11%)
The upwards equivalent of the forward tilt, basically. Lucas does an upward flip kick with a jolt of psychic energy. It sends opponents up a little, and can sometimes be repeated like Ness's up tilt, or used to lead into an up smash. Like his forward tilt, it comes out very quickly, so it's good to use after landing from aerials. Surprising range.

Down Tilt - (6%)
Pretty much identical to Ness's. Lucas spins in place and kicks his opponents in the shins. It can be rapidly chained together, is difficult to escape when well placed, and has a tripping effect. Does slightly more damage than Ness's version, but the kicks chain less rapidly.

Note: Lucas's tilt attacks are quick, cool-looking and useful. His forward tilt is one of the staple moves of his play style, in my opinion. Since Lucas's smashes are usually slow or hard to land, you'll be relying on his tilts a lot for close combat. If we're talking in terms of competition, this is one area in which L-Boy clearly has Ness beaten.

Dash Attack - (10-12%)
Lucas runs at the opponent, whips forward his hand, and sends a blast of psychic energy in front of him. There's a slight hesitation, and the attack has great range in front. Because of this, it's a great move with which to surprise opponents. It sends them up, and because of Lucas's forward momentum you can sometimes land a forward aerial afterwards. The attack does slightly more damage when the opponent is closer to Lucas.


Grabs and Throws

Ness

Ness has good range on his grabs, especially compared with Melee. His range remains the same when running or standing still. For those familiar with jump-canceling throws in Melee, it's as if Ness jump-cancels automatically in Brawl. Never been easier to snatch opponents with Ness. His grab, in contrast to Lucas's, are very fast both in execution and recovery, though lacking the range of Lucas's rope snake assisted grabs.

Pummel - (1%)
Ness headbutts his held opponent for small damage. Try to score as many hits as you can before you throw, but keep in mind that an opponent can escape grabs quickly at lower percentages. Pummels are a neat way to add little bits of extra damage, but don't sacrifice the higher-damaging throws for an extra hit.

Forward Throw - (11%)
Ness spins the opponent around with psychic energy before hurling them forwards. At first, this throw may seem weak. However, it's unique in that its knock back remains virtually unchanged by damage. Meaning, at 0%, it will send opponents roughly the same distance it sends them at 200%. Using this, you can get some pretty evil kills on stages where you can walk up to the kill points, or in stages with narrow sides. Generally, this sends them too far away for easy comboing, but it's nice to know exactly where they'll be when you throw them.

Up Throw - (10%)
Ness spins his opponent above his head, then shoots them upwards. This is great for getting opponents into the air to chase with PK Thunder or Flash, or aerial attacks.

Down Throw - (9%)
Ness throws the opponent to the ground and shoots a series of fire blasts into their body. (My favorite). It's just so cool looking! And ... yeah. It bounces opponents in front of you when finished, neatly in range of pretty much whatever you want to do to them. A fantastic combo opener. Does less damage than other throws, but leaves your opponent open for additional hits. Unless I'm going for a KO, I will almost always use this throw.

Back Throw - (11%)
One of Ness's best killing moves. Ness swings the opponent behind him and sends them rocketing away at an up/sideways angle. This KO's very well, especially in the 120% range. An incredibly powerful, incredibly reliable finisher.
Lucas

Grabs: Lucas uses his rope snake to grab opponents from a distance away. While his range is superior to Ness's, his grabs are slower. If you miss a grab with Lucas, you're going to be punished. On the whole, I find his grabs less reliable than Ness's, in spite of their increased range. Try to grab only if you're very confident your opponent will be unable to dodge.

Pummel (3%)
Similar to Ness, Lucas repeatedly headbutts his held opponent. However, Lucas does more damage with each hit.

Forward Throw - (10%)
Lucas hurls his opponent against the ground, sending them bouncing away at a diagonal trajectory in front of him. At very low percentages, this can set up for aerial attacks, but as damage rises it's more useful for putting distance between you and your opponent to launch projectiles. It can also KO, but not until higher percentages unless your opponent DI's with it. The throw is heavily DI influenced.

Up Throw - (10%)
The opponent is blasted upwards with an explosion of PSI energy. The opponent is sent straight up. This has KO power at high percentages (150% or so), but is most useful for getting opponents above you to land more powerful moves. Generally, I would avoid this one, since every other throw in his arsenal is either more damaging or has greater knockback.

Down Throw (7%)
Lucas hurls his opponent to the ground and uses bursts of psychic energy to fling them high into the air. Although this does less damage than Lucas's other throws, it has decent killing power. Should kill somewhat reliably at percentages above 130%, or less on stages with lower ceilings. If you want the opponent above you, you should use the up throw at lower percentages to gain damage, and the down throw at higher percentages since it has higher upwards knockback.

Back Throw - (10%)
The opponent is flung over Lucas's head and sent flying with a flash of PSI energy. It deals decent damage and has the highest KO potential of all his throws, but is heavily affected by opponents' directional influence. Often, this will KO at percentages as low as 90% because opponents, anticipating a forward throw, will DI in the direction they are thrown. However, it can also fail to KO above 150% if the opponent DI's against it to recover. Personally, this is my favorite of Lucas's throws. It does decent damage and seems to kill the most reliably.


Jumps

The boys' jumps are very similar. The one difference is that both of Ness's go a tiny bit higher--I'm talking about half his character height at the peak of the second jump.

The first jump is a simple, unimpressive hop which leaves a barely-visible trail of energy in its wake. Serves the purpose, but nothing special.

Their second jumps, however, are really cool. They cover a lot of distance, and include an odd curve that's difficult to predict. Depending on whether you're traveling horizontally or vertically, this second jump changes slightly, allowing for incredible aerial control.

If you stand in place and jump twice quickly, the characters will move more or less straight up. However, if you hold a direction and double jump, the second jump will travel a different sweeping curve trajectory which covers a lot of distance in a short time. Of course, aerial attacks can be placed anywhere along this curve, making the boys' mid-air attacks (especially Ness's) difficult to predict and easy to chain.

Think of it this way. Most characters' double jumps will look like a bouncing ball. They reach the height of their first jump, then "bounce" in mid-air into their second jump. Ness and Lucas, however, do a kind of downward curve, and travel an arc. I don't think I can describe it better. Give it a try if you haven't already, and you'll see what I mean.


Aerial Attacks

Ness

Neutral Aerial - (7-10%)
Ness performs a quick rotation in mid-air, sending opponents out from his location. Very fast and useful for comboing, and can even KO at high percentages.

Forward Aerial - (2-11%)
A field of sparks covers Ness's hands, hitting opponents several times. This attack has great priority and is difficult for opponents to break through. It is also easily chained to itself and other aerials. In certain cases, this can be used to juggle opponents almost right off the side of the stage. This should very likely be Ness's most used aerial attack.

Up Aerial - (13%)
Headbutt o' Doom. Ness's head is huge, and with this attack it somehow grows even bigger. Psychic power again, I guess. Excellent power and priority, with quick recovery and execution. Can be repeated easily or chained into other aerials. It can also KO at high percents.

Down Aerial - (12%)
A powerful downward kick. While airborne, it sends opponents down. When over pits, this can spike opponents to their deaths. While attacking opponents on the ground, this move can send them up, as it did in Melee, or, oddly enough, to the side. In either case, it's a good way to finish unsuspecting opponents, or to get them into the air for comboing.

Back Aerial - ( 8-15%)
A great killing move. Has a "sweet spot" effect at the tip of Ness's foot which sends opponents rocketing away at high percentages. At lower percents, it knocks them only a little distance and is easily chained into itself or Ness's other aerials.

Note: If you've read the above, you might have noticed a pattern. Every single one of Ness's aerial attacks comes out quickly, recovers quickly, and chains easily into other aerials. This is really the crux of Ness's damaging ability. Above all, Ness is an aerial comboist. You can chain many of these attacks together against an unwary opponent, and finish with his PKT or PKT2 for the kill. Very fun. Very impressive.

Lucas

Neutral Aerial - (2-17%)
An awesome, multi-hit attack in which electrical psychic energy flashes around Lucas as he spins through the air. Because of the duration on this attack, it's fairly easy to hit with. It has okay priority and can cancel some of the shorter-ranged opponents' attacks. It also has very little lag afterwards. A good strategy for this is landing on the ground and immediately following with his up or forward tilt. This move has almost no knock back power, unless the last hit connects. Use this to your advantage by starting the attack close to the ground and canceling the last hit when you land, easily chaining into tilts.

Forward Aerial - (8-12%)
A very quick kick attack which sends the opponent away in a quick jolt. The hit box is somewhat detached in front of him, making it simple to hit opponents with short range. This is a great move for getting opponents away from you. It can be repeated, but skilled opponents can avoid it. A better choice might be to follow up with PK Fire or Thunder. Can be chained together at low to mid percentages, (about 20% to 70%).

Up Aerial - (13%)
A quick headbutt, similar to Ness's. It can be used as a KO move, but it's a little trickier to land than Ness's and doesn't KO until much higher percentages (unless you are very far toward the top). The hit box on this move is a little strange--it originates slightly above Lucas's head, but if Lucas is on the rise he catches up to it. In practice mode, you can see where this move hits by looking for the spark. I don't find it useful for comboing--it's a quick, unexpected way to KO, and little else.

Down Aerial - (5-20%)
A psychic-charged quadruple kick. Unlike Ness's, Lucas's down aerial isn't as effective as a quick attack from above. It seems to make downward momentum difficult, due to the fact using it will not change your aerial trajectory. If Lucas is flying up when he uses it, he will continue to float upwards as he uses the move. If he reaches the peak while using it, he'll barely move, and he'll move downward with the kick only if he's falling. In other words, when Lucas uses the kick, he will continue with his momentum as if he didn't use any move at all. The first three hits stun. The fourth hit is a spike. Try to hit with the large hexagon in order to get the spike.

Back Aerial - (9-12%)
A quick sparking kick which covers almost all of Lucas's back. Nothing special as far as knock back or combo ability. It can be used as an unexpected way of approaching enemies on the ground, and sends opponents a short distance horizontally. Also, this has the ability to spike if you hit with the spark farthest to the side, when the move is almost exactly halfway finished. Similar to the sweet spot on Ness's back aerial, but it requires special timing.

Note: In my opinion, Ness's aerials beat Lucas's hands down. Ness accrues huge amounts of damage on opponents, and leaves himself far less vulnerable. The priority on his moves is amazing. Lucas, by contrast, does in the air pretty much what he does on the ground--hits opponents in quick little electric bursts to keep them away. However, Lucas's aerials are good for approaches, are very quick, and combo well into ground moves--some of them almost instantly. Lucas's aerials work better out of short hops, while Ness operates better by taking to the air and juggling his opponents.

Ledge and Get-up Attacks

These attacks are identical for both boys. All of them are useful for their purpose--returning to the stage or rising from a fall safely--but aren't all that powerful. If you use them too much, your opponent will see them coming and find opportunities to punish you, which is especially dangerous with the ledge attacks. Mix these attacks in with rolling and teching abilities to keep your opponents guessing. All of these attacks feature a brief flash of invincibility.

Clockwise Kick (Tap A while hanging, below 100%) - Dumb name, I know. Anyway, the boys start from their hanging position and swing in a clockwise or counterclockwise motion back onto the stage, delivering a powerful kick as they land. This deals about 6% damage and knocks opponents far enough to allow them to return.

Force Punch (Tap A while hanging, above 100%) - Ness or Lucas climbs onto the stage, and after a slight hesitation, uses the force of his momentum to deliver a single, hard-hitting punch which distorts the wind in its wake. This deals about 11% damage, and sends the opponent considerably further as their damage increases.

Sweeping Kick (Tap A while fallen)
A very quick kick which sweeps behind and then in front. Good for clearing out enemies around you to allow you to regain your feet. If an opponent is keeping a distance, they can make use of this attack's animation to time a powerful blow, so be cautious.

There you have it. All the boys' basic moves. You might have noticed that Ness's killing moves are much more reliable than Lucas's, whose finishers are usually more powerful but more difficult to land. You might also have noticed that Ness has more priority than Lucas, especially in the air. Lucas, in return, has the ability to keep opponents at a distance, to peck at them with a multitude of very quick moves, and a superior projectile game. Try to keep this in mind as we move into more advanced discussion of their abilities.


Basic Character Strategies

Here are some ideas on ways to optimize the boys' games. This is by no means a totally inclusive list; these are mostly meant to inspire thought and experimentation. This section is about helping each character do what he does best. More specific strategies, including recovery, are covered in the next section. If you have any ideas I've overlooked, please let me know and I'll add them. I'll also update this as I discover or remember more.

Lucas

Let's talk about Lucas first here, since Ness has gone first in all the move lists. Lucas is getting jealous, you see.

I've mentioned several times that Lucas is better at operating from a distance. The fact is, when people get close to him, the poor, timid boy gets afraid. Lucas's short-ranged combat is pretty weak, and I feel like he can only sustain it a short time before the inevitable super attack finishes him off. So, since Lucas fights from a distance, a huge part of his strategy is in keeping his opponents there.

The best moves for doing this are his forward tilt, his for ward aerial, his PK Fire, Thunder and Freeze. His throws can also be useful for this purpose. Here's a few simple tricks and combos for using these moves to keep opponents where Lucas wants them--far away.

Repeated Forward Tilt
This is much more useful than you'd expect it to be. Use the forward tilt. If the opponent blocks, simply use it again. The repeat rate on this is so high they'll be hard pressed to get out of their shield in time to counter it. When you hit them, simply walk forward a little and forward tilt again. Sounds simple, but it works like a charm.

Forward tilt + PK Fire
The knock back on Lucas's forward tilt almost always puts the opponent on the ground just within PK Fire range. Burn 'em up before they get to their feet, or before they even land, to send them flying away.

Repeated PK Fire
Spamming PK Fire is actually a great strategy, but you have to make sure opponents don't expect it. One way to do this is to do a short hop into the air before shooting. This will stop opponents from jumping over the flame and attacking you. Not only that, but when you land, the lag after an airborne PK Fire is canceled, meaning you can instantly fire another one when you hit the ground. Usually, even if you miss with the first, you'll hit with the ground-based one, and even if your first hits, if a really offensive opponent comes charging back at you they'll get hit by the second, too.

PK Thunder
This move is a trick all on its own. If an opponent is too far away for PK Fire, give chase with the thunder. This works especially well if they're trying to recover. The thunder will send them away from the side it hits, pass through them, and continue. Aimed at the right angle, opponents will be struck away only to be hit again by the same thunder. You can also use this at shorter range, curving it in small loops to catch attacking opponents off guard. Send it for opponents beneath the ledge to foul up their recovery. The uses are practically unlimited.

PK Thunder 2
You've knocked your opponent away. PKT is slow, and they're out of range of PK Fire. You have nothing long-ranged enough to damage them, right? Wrong. While they're on the fly, curve your thunder around for a quick, ground-based PKT2 to give chase. It's very fast, has multiple hits, and can KO under certain conditions. Be careful, however. Opponents will begin to expect this, blocking the attack and capitalizing. Also, if you fly too far you'll shoot of the stage and plummet to your doom. It should be noted that the lag after PKT2 is significantly shorter than the lag after an interrupted PK Thunder.

PK Freeze
Another option for giving chase when opponents seem out of range. Though difficult to hit with, it has a quick enough recovery that it rarely hurts to try. If you do freeze them, it's sometimes possible to repeat. Opponents will be so busy trying to get out of the ice they might not be thinking about dodging a second hit. Other options include using their frozen state to land smash attacks.

Up Smash
Thought I'd mention this again, because as far as keeping opponents away, it can certainly serve the purpose. If opponents are coming for you from above, you don't have to be anywhere near them to hit with this move. Just be careful they're not expecting it, because they'll dodge and get you for sure.

Repeated Forward Aerial
Forward aerial, give chase, repeat. That easy. However, use this only at lower percentages, (about 20% to 70%) otherwise they'll fly too far and have time to recover from flailing and counter.

Forward Aerial + PK Fire
A good high damage alternative to the above. If you forward aerial after your first jump, use your second jump to give chase and line up aim for a PK Fire.

Forward Aerial + Forward tilt
Do a forward aerial near the ground, then whether you hit or miss, immediately use a forward tilt. If you hit with the aerial, sometimes they'll be just within range of the tilt or go on the offensive and run into it. If you miss with the aerial, they'll drop their shield to counter you and be taken by surprise with the speed on the tilt.

Neutral aerial + Forward or Up tilt
When ground canceled, (see advanced strategies), the lag after the neutral aerial is practically nonexistent. Popping out an up or forward tilt afterwards is ridiculously fast. Use the forward tilt to get opponents away, or the up tilt to set up for juggling.

Neutral aerial + forward tilt + PK Fire
The neutral aerial is a neat way to open into a forward tilt and move into the combo above. Accrues satisfying damage and sends the opponent darned near to the other side of the stage.

Down or neutral aerial + up tilt + up smash
Lucas's neutral aerial, as mentioned above, has very little lag. If you hit with it, hitting with an up tilt is virtually assured. Follow up with whatever pleases you the most--in this example, an up smash. A variation of this is to use the down aerial. This has more lag afterwards than the neutral air, but sometimes that hesitation works to your advantage and puts the enemy's timing off.

Note: Many of Lucas's attacks, especially his aerial moves, have low priority. If you engage in contests of power against other characters' moves, you'll generally lose. Instead, try to keep them at a distance and place quick moves wisely when they are close. When their damage rises, predict their approach and hit with a smash attack.

Ness

Ness is proficient in chaining together aerials. So, first off, let's look at some of his simpler aerial combos, then at some moves which open into them easily. I should mention that most of what I'm calling "combos" can be escaped with directional influence, but Ness can adjust his timing slightly to allow for that, making his aerial offense difficult to avoid. Mastering Ness's jumps is key to making him as dangerous as he can be.

Repeated Forward Aerial
Very simple. Very crucial. His forward aerial covers a wide range in front of him and has excellent priority, hitting multiple times before sending opponents away. Do a short hop with a forward aerial on the way up, then another as you're falling. You can even utilize your second jump to continue juggling your opponent. Ness rarely feels vulnerable using this move; it's quite difficult to overuse this.

Repeated Up Aerial
While you can't repeat it as quickly as you could in Melee (since double-jump canceling is out), this is still a useful tactic. Use short hops for repeated up aerials, and give chase using your other jumping abilities when their damage goes up.

Repeated Back Aerial
Am I being redundant? Ness's aerials chain together so well that sometimes it's that easy. With the back aerial, however, only use the repetitions at low damages, because it will send opponents too far when their damage increases.

Combined Aerials
Frankly, running through every combination of Ness's aerials and how they chain would take forever. Suffice it to say that you can chain together his up, forward, neutral and back aerials with almost unlimited variety. Playing him more should give you a better feel for when to use one as opposed to the other to make your chains last as long as possible.

Forward Aerial + Grab
Cover yourself in front as you fall to the ground in front of your opponent by using a forward aerial. The opponent will likely take the hits, or shield. In either case, a quick grab should be relatively simple to land.

Down Aerial + Forward or Up Aerial
Perform a down aerial to an opponent on the ground. Usually, this will send them upwards into easy range of a forward or Up Aerial.

Down Throw + Forward Aerial
After the fire animation, opponents are thrown up in front of you, in perfect range for forward aerials.

PK Fire + Down Throw + Forward Aerial
"The Fire Buster." Strike with PK Fire to stun the opponent, then grab and hit them for a second so the last few PK Fire hits connect. Then down throw them and follow up with a forward aerial as above. Fire, Fire, FIRE!

Forward Aerial + Forward tilt
When the forward aerial is finished as you land, immediately do a forward tilt to knock your opponent away. This can sometimes lead to aerial combos.

Forward Aerial + Forward Tilt
Similar to the above, except that it puts opponents above you, in range of aerial attacks such as headbutts or neutral aerials, or even PK Flash or Thunder.

Up Smash + Up Aerial
If the opponent is hit with both hits (or just an upper hit) of the yoyo, they'll be sent upwards, making them easy to hit with Up Aerials unless their damage is too high.

Up Throw + Aerial
Getting opponents in the air is a big part of Ness's game. The up throw is an easy way of doing this, (though I generally prefer the down throw).

Dash Attack + Aerial
Pretty much the same as above. The third spark on the dash attack send opponents into the air, where they can be sufficiently shredded. Against longer ranged opponents, try hitting only with the furthest spark.

Up Tilt chain + Aerial
At low damages, Ness's "raise the roof" up tilt can repeatedly bounce opponents. Hit them 3 to 5 times with the move, then switch to the aerial of choice--up aerials work well here to continue your juggling combo as long as possible.

Note: Ness's ground combat isn't all that impressive. I feel like his best ground moves serve one purpose--getting opponents off the ground. His bat smash, while awesome and fun, doesn't do a whole lot for him. It's slow, and can be used to kill in certain situations, and has that reflector capability, but as far as leading into what Ness does best, not that great. This is also true of most of his tilt attacks.


Advanced Character Strategies

Here, we'll talk about tricks and details that don't relate to the crux of the boys' fighting styles. These things are important, but have little to do with the mechanics of how the boys kick butt most often.

Recovery
Ness and Lucas's recovery moves are similar, but very different in terms of aim and function.

Aiming Ness's can be off-putting at first, but you get used to it quickly. The thunder moves rapidly and turns wide. I find the easiest way to master it is to actually watch the course of the projectile and steer it quickly based on that. Get the thunder ball out far enough that you can clearly see it, then curve it to the right point. If you are not pressing exactly the direction you wish to go when the thunder hits Ness, then you won't be hitting from the right angle and won't shoot where you want.

Lucas's, however, is another story. The thunder sticks close enough to him that watching it is impractical. Instead, you have to kind of "feel it out." For those who played Ness in Melee, the feel of Lucas's recovery is similar to Ness's old thunder recovery. Sorry, I don't have any really useful tips ...

Lucas also has his rope snake for recovery. Opponents tend to forget you have it. Get near the ledge, and if an enemy tries to attack you, use the Z button to automatically aim for the ledge. You'll be pulled safely to the ledge by the snake. Keep in mind that pressing Z while flailing will perform an air dodge instead of the tether. However, you can tap Z again immediately after the air dodge begins and perform the tether. So, if you're flailing when you want to catch the ledge, simply tap Z twice quickly to pull yourself to it. A great anti-ledge guarding measure.

While Ness lacks the rope snake, he appears to have a slightly better sweet spot when near the ledge, grabbing onto it from slightly further away than Lucas.

PKT2 Wall Climbing
In Melee, Ness could aim his PKT2 at certain angles to follow the curves of walls or stages, causing him to "climb" along them. Sometimes this extended the range of his move, enabling him to recover from seemingly impossible angles. Other times, it provided surprise attacks by sending him on paths opponents did not expect.

This mechanic is in Brawl, too, but doesn't work nearly as well. The move seems to follow curves in walls less easily. And there's another catch, too, a really strange one--due to some glitch or programming oversight, it can only be done on walls when shooting to the right. If you shoot from the left at a slight upward angle into a vertical wall, you will curve and join it. However, if you do so to an identical wall from the right hand side, you'll bounce off and fall to your doom no matter how steep you angle upwards.

You can still use this "merging" effect to follow the paths of floors by shooting at an angle into them. It also works for shooting down walls from the left (but not to the right), and for sliding along ceilings.


Dealing with Ledge Guarding
Opponents do a lot of nasty things to prevent you from getting back on the stage, from "stealing" your recovery by canceling the thunder, to hanging on the ledge so that you can't catch it. How do you deal with these situations to recover safely?

For both boys, I think projectile use will be very helpful. Lucas's PK Fire will send opponents far enough away that he should be able to recover safely if it hits. And Ness's ... Fire it at a downward angle at opponents trying to attack you from below. They'll be stunned in mid-air. Ness will sink a bit and have to fire upwards--in some cases, this leads to the opponent being stunned just long enough to be hit with PKT2, and if not that long, enough to allow Ness to recover.

When aiming PKT2 for recovery, try to aim directly for the ledge. Catching the ledge offers a brief flash of invulnerability and opens up several possibilities to you, including get-up attacks and rolling to safety. However, beware ledge-hogging opponents, who can use the brief invincibility frames to prevent you from grabbing, sending your PKT2 ricocheting away.

For Lucas, there's a nifty trick you can try if you're fairly confident in aiming PK Thunder for recovery. Usually, the thunder comes from the top of his head, is curved behind him, and hits him in the back to propel him onto the stage. This, of course, leaves him vulnerable from the front while the thunder is on the move. Instead, try curving the thunder IN FRONT of him, taking the long way around to hit from the bottom or the back, thus creating a brief thunder shield to protect against attacks. Be aware, however, that this makes it simpler for enemies to steal the recovery with projectiles and ranged attacks.

Unfortunately, Ness has fewer options for recovery. Try clearing the way with his forward aerial's high priority before PKT2. Also try air dodging or avoiding PKT2 altogether. When opponents expect you to use PKT2 to recover, try simply landing on the stage or catching the ledge if possible.

Shooting Directly Into the Ground?
Why, you might ask, would you want to do such a thing? Well, for starters, it seems to take people by surprise. Anticipating a massive attack, people will prepare to counter it. When you fire "uselessly" into the ground, they consider it a "dud," and close in for the attack. At this point, you can use a get-up attack or roll away. It may sound silly, but it's helped me many times. It's especially useful when you've missed with PK Thunder and don't want the lag afterwards, or if you originally intended an angle which for some reason will no longer work out.

PKT2 as a Combo Finisher
For both boys, especially Ness, PKT2 is a perfect finisher to an aerial combo. Since it's so much quicker in Brawl, you can juggle opponents into the air (with Ness's headbutts, for example), and with quick, careful aim, finish them off with PKT2. And yes, it will almost always finish them, if you're that far toward the top of the stage. Use this with any of Ness's aerial combos from above, or with certain situations with Lucas. Very fun.

PK Thunder Mind Games
Imagine this: An opponent is recovering from slightly above the stage, so you send a PK Thunder in their direction. However, they clearly expect it, air dodging and landing safely on the stage behind you. Did you miss? Of course not! Just turn the thunder in a wide loop back towards yourself, and launch toward them with PKT2! If the opponent later asks, "Were you aiming for me, or yourself," calmly reply, "Both. And Neither." This basic trick is incredibly useful for landing hits with PKT2. Aim for them with the thunder, and if you miss, quickly curve back around and launch PKT2. You can use this for quick escapes so opponents won't take advantage of the laggy recovery on the PKT projectile. This works well with both boys; what Lucas lacks in projectile speed, he makes up for in PKT2 range.

Ledge Guarding
Lucas's end all ledge technique is in his projectiles. PK Thunder is friggin' fantastic in every way. Send it out to bounce around opponents in funny ways. It'll foul them up for sure. You can also use PK Freeze. Although unlikely to result in a KO, it's great for accruing damage or setting up for other attacks on their return. It tends to send them up high. Pursuing with PK Fire and forward aerials is also a lot of fun. You can even use PK Magnet--essentially, this acts as a charged smash attack without the need to ever release. Just wait them out with it, but be wary of its limited range. It's also good to launch a down smash or up smash a short distance from the ledge in case they roll. Another tactic is to try spiking with his down or back aerial, but choose your situations wisely. They are tricky to hit with and may end up putting you at a disadvantage.

One of my favorites for ledge guarding with Ness is his PK Flash. When you send an opponent to near-killing distances, charge your PK Flash from afar, time carefully, and aim for a spot they must pass through to recover. Even if they dodge it, it helps you direct them into places where they're easier to guard. PK Thunder also works great for Ness. It's awesome speed makes it very hard to avoid. For opponents recovering from below, do a small hop at the ledge and aim a PK Fire down at them. If it hits, you can try to spike, but it might not be necessary--the pillar can sometimes carry them to a burning death on its own. Another option is well-placed smash attacks. Yoyos are nice because you can stall them by holding them in place. Depending on their placement, they can really foul up recovering opponents. And I don't think I need to say much about the bat--it's also a great option when placed carefully.

And for both characters, repeated down tilts over the ledge can work wonders.

Double Aerial Shuffle (Ness)
Because of the speed and low lag of his aerials, Ness has the ability to perform two aerials out of a single short hop. Not only is this very quick and unexpected, but since the second aerial will always cancel against the ground, it allows Ness to follow up with quick ground-based moves such as his tilts. In summary? FAST. However, only certain combinations of aerials work, and the first attack must be executed VERY quickly, with only the slightest delay between pressing jump and the attack. You'll have to press jump, then very rapidly slide your finger to the attack button.

These aerial attacks can be used as "starters." They have very little lag after the attack, allowing for another aerial attack to be used directly afterwards out of the same short hop:

-Neutral air
-Back air

The following attacks can be used as "finishers." Their hitbox emerges very quickly, able to hit in the short space of time between the first attack and Ness's landing. Note that in the case of the forward air, only about the first two hits will emerge before the move is canceled against the ground:

-Neutral air
-Forward air
-Up air

Here, then, are the combinations which can be used:

-Neutral air + Neutral air --Easy to perform and leaves little time without a hitbox, but short-ranged.
-Neutral air + Forward air - Excellent horizontal range, links easily into ground attacks.
-Neutral air + Up air - A good way to land the powerful up air finisher, with decent range in front of Ness
-Back air + Neutral air - Good for mixing up the combinations, but not as useful as some of the others.
-Back air + Up air - Two deadly finishers in one! Miss with the first, and the second may still KO!
-Back air + Forward air - Excellent for fake-out strategies, but somewhat more difficult to perform.

And here are some ideas for how to link to ground attacks to create "combos":

-Double Aerial Shuffle + Double Aerial Shuffle - Simply repeat the above combinations for great speed.
-Neutral air + Forward Air + Up smash - Great horizontal range. If both aerials miss, the yoyo probably won't.
-Neutral air + Up Air + Up tilt - At low damages, all three attacks are likely to hit for good damage.
-Neutral air + Neutral air + Forward tilt - Three very fast, "get away from me!" kind of attacks.
-Neutral air + Forward Air + 3 hit standing attack - Just a great way to link into your 3-hit combo.

There are tons of other variations that can be used with this. Have fun and experiment!

Air Stalling with PSI Magnet
When in the air, Ness and Lucas's PK Magnets have an effect on the way the boys move. First of all, using PSI Magnet (or any B move) cancels their upward momentum. You can use this to stop mid-way through their jumps, which might help throw off ledge guarding opponents during recovery. While free falling, this causes a slight hesitation in the fall speed. Nothing really impressive, but it can be used to throw off opponents' timing just enough to enable an escape or dodge. You can also use PSI Magnet to turn around in mid-air, which is especially useful for Lucas's tether recovery. Use down angled slightly in the direction you want to turn when performing PSI Magnet in mid-air to turn the boys around.

Magnet Canceling
Tired of opponents using projectiles as bait to close the distance and beat on you? Using magnet canceling, you can instantly pop out of the absorption animation using one of a few available moves. Just as the absorption happens, perform a jump, roll or side dodge and the action will cancel the magnet. To jump, simply tap jump when the projectile reaches you. This usually allows for an easy escape, since both boys have quick aerials even if your opponent gets in your face quickly. To roll or dodge, don't bother with the shield button--simply tap a direction right out of your magnet just as the projectile reaches you. I've also heard a rumor you can use an up smash to magnet cancel as well, but if this is the case it only works with tap jump enabled.

More on PK Fire
I mentioned above that using special moves cancel the boys' jumping animations. PK Fire is no exception. Ness and Lucas's second jumps are a great way to move into perfect position for PK Fire. This is especially useful for catching opponents off guard with Ness's down angled fire.

B-Sticking
When shooting PK Fire, opponents can easily punish you if you miss. They can roll, dodge or jump over it, and then pound you during the move's lag. Fortunately, there's a way to make retaliation after PK Fire considerably more difficult. "B-Sticking" is done by modifying the controls so that the C-stick on a controller executes special attacks instead of smash attacks. Pressing a direction will be the same as holding that direction on the control stick plus the special button, and neutral specials can be performed by tilting the C-stick slightly.

Here's how you perform the trick that makes B-sticking worthwhile. When airborne, hold toward your opponent with the control stick so that you have forward momentum. Then, use the C-stick to shoot a PK Fire by pressing the direction opposite your momentum. You will fire the projectile, and (in Lucas's case), fly back a considerable distance through the air, most likely beyond range of your opponent's retaliation. This can also be done with PSI Magnet and even PK Flash and Freeze, though the results are not quite as pronounced. Both boys can do it, but Lucas's is the most pronounced and impressive rebound of all characters in the game. Ness will not really fly back much when he does it, but it does serve the purpose of completely halting his forward momentum so that he will not land directly on top of an opponent if he misses with an aerial PK Fire. For Ness, B-sticking combined with the PK Jump (covered later) will increase his rebound considerably.

B-sticking also has a useful side effect. If you press the opposite direction on the C-stick while running, your character will perform a short hop but end up facing away from the opponent when airborne. Some call this the reverse aerial rush, or RAR. This can be very useful for unexpected back aerials for spikes with Lucas or KO's with Ness. The downside, of course, is that you lose your ability to use the C-stick for aerials and smash attacks, but you get used to it quickly and it should be more than worth the sacrifice, especially for Lucas.

Magnet Pulling (Lucas)
Lucas is probably the glitchiest character in all of Brawl. Inn't it cute? Anyway, magnet pulling is an interesting glitch which causes Lucas to lunge forward or backward with incredible speed. To see it in action, perform Lucas's double jump, then use a B-sticked PK Fire. Immediately afterwards, use PSI Magnet. Lucas will instantly shoot either forward or backward about half the distance of Final Destination! Usually, this will continue to propel Lucas in the direction of his PK Fire momentum, but if you tilt the control stick slightly off of straight down you can get it to shoot him forward. He'll bounce backwards from PK Fire, then rush forward with PSI Magnet--a great fake-out tactic, and just plain cool looking. I find it easier to perform the forward-bouncing version by using the B-stick. You can perform the magnet pull without double jumping when knocked high into the air or when there's no ground beneath you--as long as your height is enough to prevent landing, B-sticking is all that's required.

If you hold down the special button after performing a magnet pull, you can time PSI Magnet's release to strike an unsuspecting opponent. The move also gives you incredible horizontal momentum which can be used for recovery--just remember to start by holding AWAY from the stage, firing a PK Fire in that direction so as to B-stick then magnet pull to safety. Magnet pulling can also be done in coordination with a b-sticked zap jump, which looks really impressive and has good recovery potential. If you magnet pull close to the ground, you'll even skid along the ground a ways, similar to wave-landing in Melee.

So ... Are you jealous that all your friends who play Jiggly, Kirby, Metaknight and Pit can travel completely underneath Final Destination and still recover? Well, guess what? Lucas can do it, too! This doesn't have a whole lot of usefulness, but if you want to show off, here's how you do it:

Run off the edge of the stage and continue holding in that direction. Now, perform a b-sticked PK Fire. This will send you at an angle below the stage. Next use the magnet pull to propel you further underneath, then the second jump to put you underneath the far ledge. Finally, fire PKT2 at a steep upwards angle to grab the ledge and recover. In short: Dash off ledge-->B-sticked PK Fire-->Magnet Pull-->Second Jump-->PK Thunder 2 recovery.

Ground-canceling Aerials
If you perform an aerial attack within a certain space of the ground, your landing will cancel the rest of the move. Since the move does not finish, the lag afterwards is practically nonexistent. This is very simple to do with Lucas's neutral aerial, and enables him to use his quick tilt attacks very quickly after landing. Simply short hop and immediately tap the attack button. Lucas should land and immediately be able to attack or even perform another aerial. It can be done with most of the boys' aerials, and is especially useful with Ness's forward air. The timing can be tricky--you want to land after the attack emerges but before it finishes. When attacking opponents who dodge or block the hit, ground-canceling can allow you to take them off guard when they try to counter you.

Timing Lucas's forward air can be especially tricky, but is incredibly useful. To do it, try holding forward, pressing jump, and then very quickly sliding your finger from the jump to the attack button. The timing is VERY quick and will probably require a lot of practice, but once mastered it's quite deadly. Not only will you be able to attack with a forward air very quick and very low to the ground, but when you land you'll instantly be ready for action. To practice, try doing several "reps" across the stage. The lag should be so little that Lucas will perform a series of very quick hops with his forward aerials. I've found this VERY useful.

Spiking Techniques
Spikes or meteor smashes are moves which send your opponent directly downward on contact. Timed over pits, these moves can shoot your opponents directly down to their doom. As an instant KO technique, spikes are useful for taking opponents out at low damages. However, be careful not to overuse them, because your opponents will grow to expect them.

Ness's most obvious spike is his down aerial, a powerful kick which sends opponents downwards. Make sure to hit with the tip of Ness's foot for the spike, otherwise your opponents will be sent sideways. I find it easy to hit opponents if I perform the attack while on the rise, since the move's slight hesitation will be expended as Ness moves upwards, and the kick will connect with the opponent below. Another useful tactic is to anticipate when an opponent will attack from below and begin the spike early to counter them.

Ness can also "spike" with his yoyo, which can KO opponents near or on the ledge by knocking them into the stage and bouncing them downwards. In order to do this, run at the ledge, using your up smash just before you reach the ledge. If done correctly, you should see the yoyo actually hang down over the ledge. After a second, it should hit a hanging opponent, bounce them against the stage, and send them at a downward diagonal which is almost impossible to recover from. This kind of tactic, called a level spike, can be performed with a variety of moves including Ness and Lucas's PK Thunder.

Lucas has two spikes--his down and back aerials. Both of them can be very difficult to hit with, at first.

The down aerial will hit four times, and the fourth hit can spike. Try to hit with the very tip of Lucas's foot as the final hit occurs. As with Ness's down air, I find it easiest to spike if you start below the opponent, then perform the aerial just as you jump. Lucas will travel upwards, stunning the opponent in place, until the final hit strikes directly on target. Also similar to Ness, you can time the kick as a counter for opponents attacking for below. It has excellent priority and with a little bit of timing you can send opponents right back down where they came from. This spike is not that powerful, and its spiking power increases with the opponent's damage. At lower percentages, opponents can easily escape it.

His back aerial is a much more pronounced spike, but it's very difficult to hit with. If you imagine the arc of Lucas's backwards kick as a half circle, you'll have the most success if you aim to hit with the tip of Lucas's foot about halfway through the arc. This becomes easier when opponents are rising into the move from below, or you are fast falling onto them from above.

Zap Jumping (Lucas)
If you perform your second jump at the same time as Lucas's PK Fire, something about the push back property of his PK Fire glitches out the jump, making you jump much higher than normal. I've only been able to do this with Lucas (I expect it's because Ness's aerial PK Fire doesn't have that push back effect). This can be useful for recovery, or for pursuing airborn opponents. However, since your PK Fire will be done on the rise, make sure to factor in its lag if your aim is to make a surprise aerial attack. People have named this technique "Zap Jumping." Makes no sense, in my humble opinion. I would have rather called it "Burn Jumping" or "Fire Boosting," or "Psychic Leap." Ah well ...

A few useful tricks can be done with this while hanging from the ledge, though if you fail it may spell doom for our young hero. If you tap away from the ledge while hanging, sink a little bit, and then perform a zap jump, you'll send a PK Fire midway through your jump. Aim to make this directly at ground level to clear the way for your return to the stage, and it will often take opponents off guard. Since you've gained enough height to recover and your opponent is sent flying from PK Fire, getting back to solid ground should be a piece of cake. You can do this facing away from the stage as a ledge guarding tactic, or even combing it with B-sticking. B-sticking a zap jump while aiming PK Fire away from the stage will propel you back up onto the stage at a very surprising angle for guarding opponents. Experiment with it, and I think you'll find it's pretty interesting.

PK Jumping (Ness)
Ness cannot zap jump, but he does have an interesting effect when his PK Fire interacts with his second jump. By timing PK Fire and the jump at the same time, Ness will begin his PK Fire, slide at an upward diagonal angle a short distance, and release the fire at the peak of his jump. Useful for surprise aerial attacks with PK Fire, and it can considerably increase PK Fire's range.

Firebounding (Ness)
A combination of PK Jumping and B-sticking. Jump toward your opponent for forward momentum, and continue to hold forward. Then, execute a B-sticked PK Fire exactly as you time your second jump. Ness will perform an odd rebound which backs him far away from where the fire would detonate. Useful for a more defensive PK Fire which may make it more difficult for opponents to counter if you miss.

PK Wind (Ness)
This is an odd effect which may not have a lot of usefulness, but it's interesting to note and just looks cool! When Ness's PSI Magnet is deactivated, there's a pushback effect that acts like a sort of wind. This can move a variety of objects. It will send opponents a short distance (further on ice), and if timed correctly can repel certain throwing projectiles. In order to time this, try to "soft throw" say, a bomb from Toon Link (press A to throw, but hold no directions), and time the release of PSI Magnet so that Ness's head bobs forward as the bomb nears him. Sometimes, this will send the thrown item a very short distance, but if it gets closer to Ness before it's repelled, it can actually be deflected quite far--even enough to hit opponents. This works on Link and Toon Link's bombs, Snake's grenades, Dedede's Waddle-Dees, boxes and crates (both thrown and grounded), turtle shells, and a number of other items. It also works in the air. Perhaps not too useful as a strategy, but it's at least fun to play with.

Thundersliding
Using Lucas, run at a battlefield-like edge with ground beneath it. Just as you would run off the edge, use PK Thunder. Because the thunder projectile comes out so close to Lucas's body, his momentum from his run will cause him to slide off the ledge and strike the projectile, sending him at a downward angle. It could be useful for surprise attacks on certain stages. Be aware of this effect, however, so that you don't do it by accident--the downward angle used off the main ledges of a stage would shoot Lucas down into the pit. Ness can do this too. He gains a little bit of speed when shooting upwards from this. With careful aim, you can use this to quickly shoot in very odd directions, such as directly backwards.

PK Thunder Edge Stall
If you're hanging on the ledge, tap away from the ledge and send a very quick, tight-circled PK Thunder onto the stage above you. Steer it very tightly so that you cancel the thunder with the floor. Ness or Lucas should go into a free fall animation and immediately catch the ledge again. The timing on this is very sensitive; if you make your circle just a tiny bit too large you'll fall too far, miss grabbing the ledge and sink into oblivion. This is useful in place of a get-up attack if your opponent is carefully guarding the space just above the ledge. Hit them with the thunder, and use it for cover so that you can safely get back on your feet.

Ledge-Canceled PKT2
If you use PKT2 along the floor of a stage so that your momentum ends right at the ledge, your character will go into a teeter animation on the ledge. The animation cancels the lag after the PKT2, enabling Ness or Lucas to move instantly. The spacing on this one can be kind of difficult. To see it in action, you can practice on a custom stage, using a floor of ice that terminates in a block with a hangable ledge. Set up a stage with a long floor of ice and then a single block of normal flooring, and shoot along the ice floor. You should skid over the ice and immediately halt when you reach the ledge on the normal floor, with the lag on the PKT2 canceled. Be careful not to try this on ice floors with no ledge, such as those on The Summit, as you'll go sliding helplessly off instead of canceling your lag.

Other Important Notes

Infinite Grabs and Pummels
Sad day. Some characters, most notably Marth, have infinite grabs and pummels against both Mother boys. For example, Marth can grab Ness or Lucas, and pummel them until they squirm free. The animation of Ness or Lucas breaking free includes enough lag that Marth can seize him again and continue to pummel. This takes no room to do, and if it's on a flat floor, is virtually inescapable. He can terminate this in a forward Smash for the KO at any time he pleases. While in experiments I did manage to escape, it seemed more luck than skill and was nothing that could be relied upon. Other characters have similar infinites, though none as easy and reliable as Marth's. If you play a character other than Ness or Lucas, you may consider switching against these match-ups, although some tournaments ban these infinites, so there's hope for those such as myself who play only N-boy and L-boy. For a full list, check out Nessbounder's death grab thread.

Opponent Match Ups

This section contains specific advice about fighting individual opponents. Currently, it's under construction. I don't have a lot of experience fighting some of the characters, so if you do, please inform the rest of us, and I'll add your advice (with credit). Beside each opponent's name, I've put my recommendation as to which of the two characters to challenge him or her with. Right now, most of my advice is targeted to only that character. In the future, I hope to put better advice for the disadvantaged character, too.

Mario - Either
Neither boy has a distinct advantage when fighting Mario. Both can nullify his projectile use using PSI Magnet. Lucas's projectile game may be somewhat less useful against opponents who use Mario's cape well. Since Mario doesn't have incredible range, even Lucas should be able to take him at close range, but be careful. Avoid using PKT2 as a recovery when possible--Mario's flood attack will make aiming correctly virtually impossible. Ness may be slightly better for this fight, but both boys are quite capable.

Luigi - Either
As I recall, Luigi is slightly better in the air than Mario. Ness should still be able to outdo him in the air pretty easily. Lucas, however, shouldn't have a lot of trouble keeping this guy at a distance. Not a match I've played a whole lot, but I seem to have the best luck with Ness. More information from those who face Luigi regularly would be much appreciated.

Peach - Ness
Haven't fought Peach much, but my gut tells me Ness would be a better choice. Once she's in the air, I think she's got few options for countering Ness. I see no reason Lucas would have many disadvantages, either. Her vertical recovery is incredible with her floating move, however her jumps are very short and her vertical recover isn't that great. Pester her when she's recovering from below the ledge, but not from directly above her, since her umbrella recovery can outprioritize just about everything. Also be careful about very direct approaches, since she may counter with Toad's spore attack.

Bowser - Either
This huge guy is infinitely comboable with Ness. He's exactly what Ness likes to see in opponents--huge and easy to hit, with less than incredible range. His size also makes him easy to strike with Lucas's projectiles or close ranged attacks. Most of his moves are incredibly powerful, but predictable. Try not to challenge him from above with either character, as his up smash and aerial have high power and priority. Watch out for suicide attacks--his forward + B grab can carry you with him to death. Other than that, be very, very careful not to be hit by his most powerful moves. They're all relatively slow, so if you can predict your opponent and play a good defense, your offensive moments should be a ton o' fun.

Donkey Kong- Lucas
For this guy, I think you'll want Lucas's speed and knockback over Ness's priority. DK has powerful, high priority attacks which have a slow start-up speed. I like to pester him constantly with quick attacks such as Lucas's tilts and aerials. If you keep on him, he should be hard pressed to get much of anything out. His grabs can be deadly if he throws you into the side of the stage for a level spike, and he can also spike with his forward aerial. PK Fire spamming is also a great tactic, especially with B-sticking. He's big and easy to hit with projectiles. Be careful about PK Thunder or Freeze, though, since they might leave you open long enough for his powerful attacks. I feel like a persistent, multi-hitting offense is the best tactic against DK.

Diddy Kong - Ness
His small size and projectile use make fighting him with Lucas more difficult. Ness, on the other hand, seems to have a counter in his aerials for most of Diddy's moves, and can move fast enough to catch the little monkey off guard. Diddy's weight is very conducive to Ness's combo style. But here's the big problem--bananas. Diddy players go bananas for bananas. they'll likely spam them everywhere. They'll trip you with a banana, then space another neatly away so that if you roll after tripping you'll immediately trip again. While you're down, they'll pound you with Diddy's most powerful attacks. Worst of all, the one who threw the banana cannot trip on it himself. To deal with this, try to keep constant pressure on your opponent so he doesn't have a chance to throw many of this most troublesome fruit. When a banana is on the floor in front of you, carefully pick it up and chuck it back at him, making it yours--meaning he will trip on it, but you won't. You can also try catching them as they are thrown or bat reflecting them. Also be aware that Diddy can only have two bananas out at a time, and if they both belong to you, his campy defense is ruined until they disappear or he picks them back up himself. On stages with platforms such as battlefield, try to bring the fight to the higher platforms so as not to be helplessly juggled on the long, flat floor.

Yoshi

Wario - Ness
Wario's attacks are generally short-ranged, meaning Ness's high priority aerials will do well against him. When he's on his bike, be careful which attacks you use--some will knock him right off, while others will stop on the bike and do no damage as he runs you down. His recovery from below the stage leaves him unusually vulnerable. Projectiles should make his life difficult down there. If you see him flashing, beware--an attack most foul awaits you in the form of his Wario waft. It's extremely powerful, and no, you can't absorb it. Lucas could do well against Wario, too, but I feel like his shorter ranged aerials will give Wario too many opportunities. Also be careful of certain moves such as his forward smash, which feature armor frames.

Link - Ness
Not much experience fighting Link, but word is he's got a lot of disadvantages. His jumps and recovery are sub-par, for starters. Because of his long-ranged projectile game, I'm going to suggest using Ness against him. Watch out for his powerful sword attacks--the up smash, forward smash, and down aerial, for starters. Pester his recovery with PK Thunder. Other than that ... I'm not really that experienced against him, so if you are, please give me some pointers.

Zelda - Ness
The best Zelda players seem to be extremely defensive. Many will camp with Din's Fire until you near, only to counter you with a powerful smash attack to begin the process again. Personally, I prefer Ness for this battle. Ness's yoyos and forward air provide range enough to damage her without getting close enough to be punished by her forward smash. Be wary of attacking from above--her up smash will outdo anything and everything you've got. Zelda seems weakest in the air. Her aerial attacks all have short range, but are incredibly powerful if they hit with the sweet spots. Keep this in mind and try to outprioritize her in the air without getting too close. On the ground, try to trick her into smashing and punish her afterwards--PK Fire is a great option. A Zelda pressed to the ledge will very often try to roll behind you. Be prepared and counter with a yoyo. Fake-out tactics with aerials and yoyo attacks have always worked well for me.

Sheik
I'm not so good against the Sheik I face, to be honest. I'll give a few tips, but as of now I don't have a strong recommendation for which boy does best. Sheik likes to combo with her tilt attacks. DI carefully to escape, but at low damages she's able to combo you in place easily with the use of just a few moves. Fortunately, her KO power isn't that great. Avoid being on the ground in front of her. Sheik's needles are very fast and invisible. She'll also use them to mess with your recovery, so beware. Projectiles do well against her when carefully placed, as do Ness's aerial and yoyo attacks. She's also relatively light, so Lucas's powerful smashes and other KO moves are an asset.

Ganondorf - Lucas
You can take Ganon all right with Ness, but his powerful moves have good range and can outprioritize him. Making use of Lucas's speedy close ranged moves is a good idea, as well as PK Fire and Thunder use. Ganon's another opponent who you really don't want to get close to, if you can help it. His recovery is relatively easy to mess with, but beware the punch at the height of the jump. Chasing with PK Thunder when he's trying to recover works wonders. When recovering yourself, watch for well-placed aerials, especially his dreaded Thunder Drop--aptly named, because it sends you dropping with incredible speed, covered in thunder. It's a spiking move which is, as far as I'm aware, impossible to recover from.

Toon Link - Ness
Lucas can do well against Toon Link, but I believe Ness is a better choice. This kid's projectiles can go a long way toward nullifying Lucas's projectile game. A simple arrow will cancel Lucas's PK Thunder, either by hitting him or the thunder itself, hit him out of PK Flash, and stop his fire short. Ness, on the other hand, can give chase better and keep Toon Link in the air. Be wary of his down air--it will send him downwards VERY fast. Also watch out for his very quick up tilt or smash, which have admirable KO power. Try to keep on top of him so that he doesn't camp with projectiles. If he tries to grab you, be ready to dodge and hit him with your own grab as he recovers SLOOWLY. Try to avoid PKT2 for recovery when possible, since arrows or his boomerang can cancel the thunder. Other than that ... Just be careful about his better than average range, and pummel the boy.

Samus

Zero Suit Samus - Either
Zero suit Samus is very quick and long-ranged. Since she's less proficient in the air, Ness can be a great choice. Try not to attack from the front, her long-ranged whip will get you before you get close. Lucas, on the other hand, has an advantage in the speed of his bat reflection and PSI Magnet. Her laser shots from her special attack and down smash can be reflected and absorbed, and even her plasmas whip (forward B) can be reflected! If your opponent begins the match in the Zero Suit, be prepared to catch or dodge projectiles--the pieces of her armor land next to her, and do ridiculous damage if she hits with enough of them. That's one handicap you do not want to start with. Ledge hog to prevent tether recovery, but climb up as soon as she misses--on of her upwards aerial attacks is a long whip which will snare you and throw you down. Get her in the air, and do your best to keep her there, avoiding attacking from above or directly in front.

Pit - Lucas
Pit is another character with just enough aerial priority to keep Ness from operating at his full potential. I'd recommend using Lucas. Be careful with projectiles like PK Fire--both Pit's Angel Ring (side special) and Mirror Shield (down special) can reflect them right back at you. DI away from Pit to get out of his Angel Ring--DIing toward him may result in massive damage, so be careful. While he's quite mobile in the air, his Wings of Icarus recovery leaves him very vulnerable. He can't use the ability a second time without landing, so try to hit him out of it while he's below the ledge. Count on him firing arrows any time you're trying to recover, and absorb with PSI Magnet. You can also try using this offensively if he's too projectile heavy. To get around his Mirror Shield, use aerials such as Lucas's neutral aerial. It has multiple hits, one of which is sure to hit the right spot. PKT2 can also pass through the shield under certain circumstances. Avoid attacking from above, as his moves from that angle have high priority.

Ice Climbers

ROB - Ness
Ness. Definitely Ness. If a ROB player is on top of his game, Lucas won't be able to touch him. Virtually all of his moves have great power and just enough range to outdo Lucas. His gyros and laser have greater range and speed than Lucas's projectiles. Ness, on the other hand, can usually find a way to get him into the air, and which time he can do some great damage. Be careful of attacking him from below in the air, since his down aerial is very fast, powerful, well-ranged, and can spike. When far away from him, try to predict his laser and absorb--you have to know when it's coming. If you wait and watch for it, it will be too late. PK Fire can be really useful for creating openings on such a large character. Ledge guard like crazy--his recovery recharges by landing, so don't let him do it. If you keep pursuing him off the ledge, he should run out of fuel, but make sure you don't get spiked in the process.

Kirby - Lucas
The Kirby I face is horrifying, truth be told. I think he's one of the better Kirby's out there, actually. I seem to do slightly better against him with Lucas. I find that Ness's aerial priority isn't enough to rely on. Kirby has moves which counter him enough to mess up many of Ness's approaches. Lucas's projectiles should be helpful, but be careful of using PK Thunder when Kirby is above you. His rock attack received a major buff in Brawl--not only is it faster, but it now has good KO power. Chasing him over the ledge can be effective, but be careful to stay above him--he has enough jumps to try spiking you repeatedly until it works. Also be careful of what my friend calls "Kirbycide," eating you and carrying you into the pit. If he successfully lands it, don't try to get out unless he's ahead on stock. He dies first when you're in his mouth, and if you struggle out you'll pop out below him and he'll usually have enough jumps to recover while you die. As for attacking him, that's the hard part. Try to keep to the ground, and use your down smash and forward smash. The up smash will kill him at relatively low percentages, so look for openings. Do not try to challenge him from above. Instead, dodge or DI out of attacks to prevent juggling.

Meta Knight - Lucas
Aerial priority in an opponent = Bad for Ness. I think Lucas is a good choice against Meta Knight, although the one I face is pretty evil. Place your shorter ranged moves carefully, or you'll end up getting diced up--Meta Knight's swords don't have amazing range, but they have enough. Also be wary of attacking from above, since his tornado move is an easy counter. If he uses this as an approach, PK Fire should knock him out of it. Well-placed grabs can outrange him. If you get him in the air, try to attack from below, as I don't think he has a strong defensive move from that angle. Chase him with PK Thunder or Freeze when he's knocked off the stage; going out yourself will likely end in disaster. Also stay away from his front when he's gliding--the first and final hits are KO moves. Lucas's powerful smashes are great options against Meta-Knight, as he's very light and should die at low percentages. His own KO moves are relatively weak--except for his Shuttle Loop, so be prepared for it any time he's below you in the air. It's very quick, so be ready to make the difficult air dodge when you need to.

Dedede - Ness
Dedede is the toughest opponent I've faced with Lucas. Skilled players will outrange Lucas easily. The Waddle-Dees are hard to get through, and serve as blockers for PK Fire. Dedede's Forward tilt is a huge spinning hammer which darned near outranges PK Fire! Attempts to hit with PKT2 will also usually be canceled with this move or Waddle-Dees. If your Dedede opponent is as tough as mine, you'll never get anywhere near him with Lucas and end up utterly humiliated. I'm talking three stocking, here. Ness should be able to make better use of Dedede's size. Choose your attack angles carefully, since Dedede has a long-ranged counter for virtually every direction. He's weakest from the bottom, so if you can get him into the air, make use of it. He has armor frames on his air jump, so don't try, say, shooting from below with PKT2. Instead, wait for him to land and take advantage of his lag. The stars from this jump can be absorbed with PSI Magnet, as can the beam attack of his Waddle-Doos, (the orange Waddle-Dees with huge eyes). This restores a lot of damage, so watch carefully for opportunities. PK Fire is usually easy to hit with, and creates openings for more powerful attacks such as grabs.

Olimar - Ness
Olimar is tiny and difficult to hit. Most of his attacks involve throwing Pikmin--that means long range. His projectile range outdoes Lucas, so I feel like Ness is the better choice. His recovery is tether-based, meaning it's easily stolen. Hang on the ledge as he tries to recover, and he'll have no options left. Counter his Pikmin throws with PK Fire--it will create a kind of shield which stops the next few Pikmin from coming through, and may damage him if he tries to charge for an attack. Another good counter for Pikmin is to remain in the air and use forward aerials--they act as a shield against all Pikmin except yellow. If a Pikmin does attach to you, immediately get rid of it using a forward or neutral aerial. If you're quick enough, you will take no damage. Positioning is also important--most of Olimar's ranged attacks will hit either straight forward or straight up. Attacking from a diagonal angle above will protect you from most attacks, but beware his Pikmin chain, which attacks at a 45 degree angle up from the ground. I think grabs are a good option against him, as well as the yoyos. The nice ground range on the down smash should be helpful. Count on him camping with his projectiles. Try to stay in his face so he doesn't have the opportunity to settle in and keep you far away. Also be careful of his grabs, which have incredible speed and range in front of him.

Fox

Falco

Wolf - Ness
This guy is tough! Avoid projectile use, because his reflector is disturbingly fast. He can also travel long distances very quickly, although there's a second of charge before he uses such moves. Little lag after most of his moves. Try to use your high priority aerials. Grabs seem to work well against him, and I think you'll want the speed of Ness's over the range of Lucas's. Be wary of his forward smash--he moves forward while performing it, so it has incredible range and great power. His quick reflector makes a hard battle for Lucas.

Captain Falcon (Ness)
Lucas does all right against Falcon, but because of Falcon's low priority, Ness's aerials should consistently outdo him. Using Ness, you're free to counter most of his combos with a forward aerial or other fast attack. Watch out for Captain Falcon's deadly knee attack--it is tricky to hit with, but has incredible power when it does. Falcon's fastest attacks such as his forward and down specials can be countered with PK Fire or well timed jabs. Be very careful to avoid his Falcon Punch, as it can KO you at very low percentages. However, if you dodge the attack you can easily punish CF for missing. Be careful, but don't be intimidated by his speed. Grab him a lot and hit him with strong attacks when you know you have an opportunity--several of his moves have very punishable lag afterwards.

Pikachu

Pokemon Trainer - Ness
Lucas can take Charizard easily enough. Squirtle shouldn't be too much trouble, either. But Ivysaur is a horror for Lucas. Ivysaur's range is just barely shorter than PK Fire, meaning if you try to use it he can tap you with one of those aggravating vines. He'll do this a lot when you're on the ground, simply poking you out of whatever you try to do. The best strategy is to stay in the air. Ivysaur's size makes him easy to combo with Ness. Be careful when above him--his bullet seed has incredible range, and his up smash is the strongest in the game (and very quick). Charizard shouldn't give you too much trouble; he's big, slow, and easily absorbed. The fire breath, I mean, not the massive dragon. Squirtle can actually give Ness a bit of trouble due to his speed. As with Mario, be careful using PKT2 recovery, because Squirtle's water jet can foul it up. His up smash has incredible range, so avoid attacking from above while he's on the ground. Also of note is the "super effective" attacks, which actually do have an effect in Brawl. Although they're not that exploitable by the Mother kids, Charizard, Ivysaur and Squirtle are weak against Water, Fire and Grass respectively--Thunder and Ice have no effect.

Lucario - Lucas
Because of the frontal nature of his Aura Sphere and Force Palm, it's great to use Lucas's PSI Magnet offensively against him. Hop toward him, activating the PSI Magnet. If he tries either of those two moves, Lucas will absorb them. People who haven't fought Ness or Lucas much probably won't realize Force Palm can be absorbed. Hopefully, you'll absorb whatever he throws and land with the magnet inside Lucario's body. Release, and watch him go flying. Keep in mind that the damage and knockback power on all of Lucario's aura-based moves increases as his damage percentage rises. Be careful and try to KO him quickly when he reaches high percentages. Lucario has great recovery and aerials, and can juggle opponents right off the side of the stage in some cases. Make use of Lucas's long-ranged recovery to evade out of Lucario's range. Be especially wary of attacking from below while Lucario is airborne--his down air has ridiculous range and can even KO when Lucario is at high damage. Ledge hogging can be highly effective against Lucario, whose recovery move does no damage.

Jigglypuff - Lucas
Jiggly is one of those characters who are able to outdo Ness in the air. She can even juggle characters out far to the side. Since she can juggle Ness out beyond his recovery range, I prefer to use Lucas for his longer recovery, quick, high knockback air attacks, and incredible smash attack power. Since Jiggly is so light, any of Lucas's smashes should finish her at relatively low percentages. Don't try to counter her rolling attack unless you're very sure of the outcome. The move can be charged forever, so your opponent can simply wait until your charged smash executes on its own and hit you when you're vulnerable. Also be wary of attacking her straight on in the air. Instead, try to hit from above or below.

Marth - Lucas
His aerials out range and outprioritise Ness's. This is BAD. Lucas's superior range should be a better match for him. Try not to get in range of his swords unless you know he's vulnerable. You can try baiting him into attacks and diving in after he misses. However, I think his moves have fairly short recovery speeds, and skilled Marth players always seem very fast. Try to avoid PKT2 recovery and rely on your rope snake, as Marth players are likely to see PKT2 as an opening for a spike. Many Marth players, even those of some skill, are extremely smash happy. The smashes are powerful, but if you're expecting them you can certainly punish them afterwards. Also be careful of forward aerials, which can be rapidly chained together.

Ike - Lucas
Fighting Ike is a game of evasion. As with Marth, stay out of range of his swords and rely more heavily on projectiles. Try to bait him into missing with attacks. The lag after these attacks is greater than with Marth, so you should be able to punish him easily for missing. Lucas's long ranged grabs should be very useful, here. Avoid being above him; his Up + B really hurts. When he's recovering horizontally from the ledge, give chase with aerials and PK Fire and Thunder. Hopefully, you can juggle him out far enough to prevent his recovery, or at least intercept his Forward + B with your body, making him come up short of the ledge. On the ground, his Forward + B will likely be used excessively when you're at a distance. Anticipate and counter with PK Fire, or block it and grab afterwards. Careful of attacking from the air unless he's lagged--his up smash has a wide range which covers him completely and has incredible KO power.

Ness - Ness
DANG! These psychic kids are EVIL. You can't hope to win against them, because they're just that good. Anyway, I recommend using Ness against himself. Make great use of your aerials--hopefully, better use than your opponent. Use Ness's unusual movement style to approach in the air and immediately withdraw. Hopefully, this will confuse your opponent and bait him into making a mistake. Obviously, make use of PSI Magnet to absorb projectiles. Avoid ledge guarding with PK Thunder, and avoid PK Flash altogether--once started, you have to detonate it, and the damage it restores will be devastating if your opponent steals it. And, I'm sure most of you are already aware of this, but Ness's recovery can be fouled up with relative ease. You can try jumping into the thunder before it hits him, canceling the thunder with your own, or simply countering with a well-timed bat. Just be sure you don't get yourself hit with PKT2. That's bad news when it doesn't come from you.

Lucas - Ness
I think Ness has an advantage over Lucas when the two are pitted against each other. He outdoes Lucas's aerial moves, and when played carefully shouldn't be bothered by Lucas's tilt attacks. Lucas's options will be limited, since much of the range he needs to beat Ness is in his projectiles, which can be absorbed. Be very careful of Lucas's smash attacks, as landing just a couple of those can even up the match in a hurry. Hanging on ledges will prevent Lucas from tether recovering. When he tries to recover with PKT2, try to intercept the thunder with your own, faster version, or block the attack and capitalize. Be prepared to take advantage of his lag after PK Thunder or smash attacks. Just ... don't hurt him too much, please.

Mr. Game and Watch

Snake - Lucas
Probably the most important thing to be wary of against Snake is his explosives. Be sure you know where he has placed them, because if you don't, HE certainly will, and he'll surprise you every time. I like to use Lucas on this guy. Lucas's faster forward smash is useful for reflecting certain projectiles. Snake is also fairly slow and easy to hit with PK Fire. Snake is incredibly heavy, so make good use of Lucas's most powerful smashes, his down smash and up smash. On neutral stages such as Battlefield, he seems able to survive to huge percentages, (above 200%). Hit him with something reeeally strong before that point comes, or try to knock him off the side of the stage. Ness's off the top juggling techniques are unlikely to work well. Lucas's grabs are good against him, too, since many of his moves require him to stand still for long periods of time. Look out for his forward smash and the super vertical range on his up smash. Also be careful of his up tilt, which has ridiculous range and KO power. Some people consider Snake to be "bannable" because of how good he is. At the very least, he's extremely tough and top tier, so be on your guard.

Sonic - Ness
As you might expect, it's a game of speed when facing this guy. Most of Sonic's hits are relatively weak, but his speed enables surprise attacks from many different angles. When Sonic is above you, expect a very quick attack from above--similar to Toon Link's, Sonic's down air jets to the ground with amazing speed. Sonic players like to rush at you, then leap high into the air with their trampoline recovery move and launch the down aerial. It's a fake out technique that leaves you vulnerable if you react to the initial charge forward. Be careful, and try to predict your opponent. Without mind games, Sonic isn't that tough. Ness's PK Fire can stop his dashes. Forward aerials should counter his spinning attacks--watch out when he curls into a ball, since his spinning attack homes. Be very careful with grab placement, since Sonic's ground speed can easily foul you up and then charge in to punish you.

Credits
Many thanks to the following people for their information and encouragement.

clinton - Move percentages, PSI Magnet chart and percentages, various other information.

Earthbound360 - Help with advanced technique information and plenty of encouragement.

NESSBOUNDER - Various information.

Serpit - In-depth information on Lucas's aerials, various other information.

 

[Serpit]

Great guide, Aevin. I can see you put a lot of effort into this. Keep up the good work and I'll help you whenever I can ^^

Just some info on Lucas' aerials: The Nair actually has pretty good knockback when the last hit lands. It's just that it has virtually no kncokback if it doesn't, and that's why it's so great for comboing.

Then the Fair: You said you should only do repeated Fairs at low percents, but I disagree here. If you hit a fresh opponent with a Fair he will be able to counter pretty immediately... as soon as you hit a good percentage range of 20%-70%, you're free to Fair-chain them down.

Also, Dair: It's the same as with most hexagon attacks Lucas has: There's a large sweetspot (the hexagon) and a weaker spot, the body part itself. You said thatit only spikes if ONLY the third hit connects, but that's wrong: The spiking/launching effect apepars when the third haxagon hits. If you score the third hit with your foot, they'll be sent sidewards... If you sweetspot though, they'll be sent down. If you whiff the last hit it's probably because you fell too fast and only hit your opponent with your foot.

Perhaps you should add some stuff about the very underappreciated Downsmash though: It's one of the very few Downsmashes in the game I can think of that actually hits below you. On most platform stages, you can hit opponents of regular size with the Downsmash when they are below you. Additionally, this will usually result in them getting hit 2 times, resulting in 30%+ damage. Also, you can use it to reliably edgeguard people who don't auto-sweetspot the ledges, like Pit.

As for the throws: Basically, all 4 of them can reliably kill at around 150% on an average stage. B-Throw and F-Throw are very heavuily influenced by DI, their knockback can vary from almost horizontally to almost vertically... in the case of bad DI, you can kill with them at much lower percents already (~100%). TBH Lucas' throws at higher percents don't seem too hot, but compared to most of the Brawl cast they're actually pretty good. D-Throw is an awesome combo move at <50% though. In most of the cases, a D-Throw on a fresh opponent will lead to them taking around 40% of damage =P

 

[SK8orDIE]

You don't have to justify your guide to me. A lot of these guide-makers are a bit lazy, so someone who's thorough is more desirable than someone who's well-known. Just keep up the good work and your contribution will continue to speak for itself. Mad props.

 

[GKirby]

Isn't there already an indepth Lucas FAQ... Just saying... o_O

 

[Calibretto2103]

Very Nice. My only complaint is that you say that Lucas doesn't have much of a aerial game. I play Lucas with a strong aerial game and only use ranged when necessary. idk maybe im not using Lucas to his full potential.

 

[Aevin]

Serpit: Thanks a lot for the information. I'll add the stuff about the down smash immediately--the only reason I didn't include it before is I didn't want to get too wordy. (Ironic, eh?)

So, I assume the reason the neutral aerial works so well for chaining into ground attacks is that the last hit is canceled when you land? I'll also change this. On the forward aerial, the range you gave is actually about what I meant by "low percentages," but I'll make it more clear.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the down aerial. Are you saying the spike still occurs at the third hit, but that you need to hit with the hexagon, not Lucas's foot?

What you're saying about the throws is pretty much in line with what I was thinking, but I want to try them out more before I update. I don't disbelieve you, I just don't like writing about stuff I don't understand myself.

You don't have to justify your guide to me. A lot of these guide-makers are a bit lazy, so someone who's thorough is more desirable than someone who's well-known. Just keep up the good work and your contribution will continue to speak for itself. Mad props.

Thanks a lot! I appreciate the support. (Believe me, I need it.)

Isn't there already an indepth Lucas FAQ... Just saying... o_O

Sure. I hope mine offers some things that one doesn't--as I'm sure the existing one offers some things mine cannot. Two guides should provide a more complete view of the character, don't you think? Besides, this also contains information on using the two as a team, or a single fighting unit.

Very Nice. My only complaint is that you say that Lucas doesn't have much of a aerial game. I play Lucas with a strong aerial game and only use ranged when necessary. idk maybe im not using Lucas to his full potential.

I don't mean to say he has no aerial game. It's just that his aerials are typically quick moves with short range and weak priority. Anyone with power and range will shred Lucas in the air--notably Ness, Marth, Ike, other sword wielders and, surprisingly, Ganondorf. It's great that you do well in the air, but pick your battles carefully.

 

[Serpit]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the down aerial. Are you saying the spike still occurs at the third hit, but that you need to hit with the hexagon, not Lucas's foot?

Yeah. It does not matter how often you hit with the attack, the spiking effect appears when you sweetspot the third hit (as in, hit with the Hexagon).

Also, since you said that Lucas has low-priority aerials, I have to semi-disagree. When I first played, I actually deployed a Wall of Pain like style with Lucas Bair, and my friend described it as "auto-spacing-move". It's got a huge hitbox, very good priority and can actually lead to the same followups as Fair.

 

[Aevin]

I admit I probably underuse some of Lucas's aerials. I'll try some experiments next time I play. Thanks again.

 

[napZzz]

This guide makes me want to quit playing ganon and go back to good ol ness and trying out lucas......I played ness so much in smash 64 and when he got nerfed in melee I found ganon and played him. It seems like they brought ness's abilities back and lucas is an even better version. Oh god I guess I will have to wait till brawl comes out sunday to see who will be better-lucas and ness, or ganon :/

 

[Aevin]

I fight Ganondorf all the time. Shin Ganondorf, who wrote a guide for the Ganondorf section, is my regular opponent. Ganondorf can sure be scary ... It's fun beating on the great King of the Gerudo with my little kids, though.

NaPPy, do you live in Cottage Grove, OR? I'm in Eugene, quite close to there. Though I imagine there's about fifty different cities called Cottage Grove all over the US.

 

[napZzz]

I live in minnesota. There probably are alot of cottage groves, but mine is the best. Yes ganon is great but the only thing I can never take down is falco and I don't know why...I mean in melee I'm talking about. I have not been able to play ganon yet in brawl. My bro works at a gamestop and when they got it in early he brought it to my house and we played it for a bit and I got to experience lucas, and he might make me dump ganon because they took away his down b recovery.

 

[WarMachine]

Ness and Lucas FTW!

I like what you're doing with the suggestions on which to use in certain match ups. It's just too bad we probably couldn't have something like this on the Ness boards without having everyone go for your throat.

Good stuff.

 

[Shweex]

Great guide

 

[Mikezor]

Very nicely done.

 

[Aevin]

I like what you're doing with the suggestions on which to use in certain match ups. It's just too bad we probably couldn't have something like this on the Ness boards without having everyone go for your throat.

To be honest, I would have preferred to post on the Ness boards, since they don't have a great character guide like yours there. But the attitude of a few jerks there is spoiling the whole Ness forum. The people here are much nicer.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

This is looking great! However, you may need to look at something:

Firstly, you describe Lucas's tilts and smashes as having small range when they actually have a lot more range than Ness's, as well as disjointed hitboxes, allowing him some comfort against sword users like Marth.

Also, you said that Lucas's up smash is the third most powerful SMASH ATTACK in the game. I think you meant third most powerful up smash, since Dedede's Fsmash is the most powerful smash in the game, followed by Ivysaur's up smash, followed by Ike's Forward smash.

but great guide! It's looking good so far.

Oh, and about Lucas's aerial game: technically it isn't as good as Ness's, but look at it this way: Lucas has more disjointed hitboxes, which gives him more range. I'm not sure how that can mean he has poor priority though, but it's not like I've played him. It's just that most disjointed moves have very good priority.

 

[Aevin]

Thanks for reading!

Firstly, you describe Lucas's tilts and smashes as having small range when they actually have a lot more range than Ness's, as well as disjointed hitboxes, allowing him some comfort against sword users like Marth.

I don't believe I claimed Lucas had short ranged smash attacks, and if I did, I certainly didn't intend to. His bat is, but that's about it. As for short ranged tilts, I'm not comparing to Ness but to other characters in general. His forward tilt has good range for its speed, but not great. His up tilt has limited range, and the three hit combo does as well. They're quick, powerful moves, but lack the kind of range many other characters possess--for example, any of the sword wielders or Dedede.

Also, you said that Lucas's up smash is the third most powerful SMASH ATTACK in the game. I think you meant third most powerful up smash, since Dedede's Fsmash is the most powerful smash in the game, followed by Ivysaur's up smash, followed by Ike's Forward smash.

You're right. I was wondering about that but left it that way because I wasn't too familiar with the stronger smashes. I'll fix it.

 

[Loghog]

great job!!!

 

[napZzz]

yeah you guys have decided to make me main lucas when brawl comes out and dump ganon thanks alot

 

[Smashbros_7]

10/10

Great job aevin. This what people need, an unbiased review.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Thank god your not Ademisk. Can you do Wario,Olimar,Fox and Wolf next?

 

[Smashbros_7]

To be honest, I would have preferred to post on the Ness boards, since they don't have a great character guide like yours there. But the attitude of a few jerks there is spoiling the whole Ness forum. The people here are much nicer.

cough* ademisk cough*

No guides can compare to this and must take an example, since they are slightly less filled out then yours.

 

[Aevin]

I'm really flattered you liked it, Smashbros 7. Unfortunately, I don't know much about those characters. If I were to make a different guide, it would probably be for Toon Link or Zelda. Although, since I'm not finished with this one, that's a bit premature.

By the way, thanks for the compliment on my sig, earlier.

yeah you guys have decided to make me main lucas when brawl comes out and dump ganon thanks alot

That's great news! ... Though my roommate would disagree.

Thanks to you, too. Loghog.

BTW, I'm updating now with info on the zap jump.

 

[Smashbros_7]

I mean Match up!

 

[Aevin]

Oh, gotcha. That makes a little more sense. Seemed like rather high demands for a Ness/Lucas player.

Actually, those are some of my most difficult opponents. Stupid Olimar ... I'll put up Wolf information soon. Other than that, I'd like to wait a little longer. I want to make sure my information's good when I add it.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Oh thanks! This guide is so good, im reading it again! Ness and Lucas might high tier! ps: sorry about demands. I was excited. Also im pretty sure Lucas Usmash is stronger than Dedede Fsmash.

 

[Aevin]

It's all good; I didn't mean it that way. By the way, if you have some suggestions for fighting those characters, please share. That goes for anyone else, too. If they're blank now, they're blank because I either haven't fought them a lot, or have trouble finding specific advice that doesn't sound like everything else. I'll credit anyone who contributes info for these things, of course.

 

[t!MmY]

Great job on the guide Aevin. There's a lot of good information, it's organized well, and you did an excellent job combining both Ness and Lucas together throughout. Once you get more details hammered out, this guide will be a boon for all Ness/Lucas players looking for helpful information.

BTW, I love the title. At first I just took it literally, then I got the meaning and smiled.

 

[Hardcorenesser]

can't psi magnet absorb yoshi's FS fireballs?

there is a bunch of matchup information in the pikmin & olimar forums. Also, can you come up with the counters for Fox/Falco? i'm gonna need em for the gamestop tournament.

Geez Smashbros7 triple post. edit next time.

 

[Aevin]

Great job on the guide Aevin. There's a lot of good information, it's organized well, and you did an excellent job combining both Ness and Lucas together throughout. Once you get more details hammered out, this guide will be a boon for all Ness/Lucas players looking for helpful information.

Thanks for stopping by, T!mmy! I appreciate the encouragement. Any advice on not getting thrashed by your Kirby that I can add to the guide?

can't psi magnet absorb yoshi's FS fireballs?

Really? I'll have to give it a try.

 

[Aevin]

Updated with counter information for Snake, Wolf, Olimar, Kirby and Zero Suit Samus.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Yes! Me and my bro are wondering if Wario is worse/good against Lucas. (I say Ness beats him)

 

[Aevin]

I haven't fought a whole lot of him, but he seems like an "either" to me. Ness might be slightly better, but I sure don't see why Lucas couldn't handle him.

 

[Hardcorenesser]

I'd say Lucas, cuz all Wario's attacks have very bad range. just keep spamming pk fire i guess...

 

[Aevin]

My friends have offered to fight me using specific characters to fill some of the holes. They're good players, so I should have information for a big character update in a few days.

On a side note, I wish I had caught a certain Wario moment on video. It was on the Spear Pillar stage, and a pokemon was out that slows and distorts time. Wario released his fully charged Wario Waft just as this occured. It appeared that the fart was of such epic proportions that it distorted the fabric of time and space ... Slow motion flatulence ... gotta love it. XD

 

[Serpit]

As I mentioned before, your guide is great, but I still have a bit of a problem with it. I have to admit that I am a bit biased, but I'll try to handle this matter as factually as I can. I am gonna be honest, I think Lucas is the superior character from my experience, several people I played or competitive players I know seem to think the same. Don't get me wrong, I love both of the boys, but I don't think they are about equal. Ness has some things over Lucas, but IMO Lucas' advantages really beat Ness'.

To me, it seems like you're looking for things that makes Ness equal to Lucas and over-glorify them. I also feel like you don't give Lucas enough credit in certain fields. An example is this:

Note: In my opinion, Ness's aerials beat Lucas's hands down. Ness accrues huge amounts of damage on opponents, and leaves himself far less vulnerable. The priority on his moves is amazing. Lucas, by contrast, does in the air pretty much what he does on the ground--hits opponents in quick little electric bursts to keep them away.

There you have it. All the boys' basic moves. You might have noticed that Ness's killing moves are much more reliable than Lucas's, whose finishers are usually more powerful but more difficult to land. You might also have noticed that Ness has far more priority than Lucas. Lucas, in return, has the ability to keep opponents at a distance and to peck at them with very quick moves. Try to keep this in mind as we move into more advanced discussion of their abilities.

While I agree that Ness has a slight aerial edge over Lucas, I don't think it's as big as you make it out to be. For beginners, while priority isn't defined through disjointed hitboxes, having them really helps. Ness has a disjointed Fair, Lucas has a disjointed Fair, Dair and Bair. In addition to that, Lucas' Bair has as much of a wall-like effect as Ness', in that it's high priority, great range and hard to break through.
I also think people over-emphasize the keep-away game of Lucas: He can combo. Lucas' Nair alone is a better combo move than most of Ness' aerials, low percent Fairs/Bair or high percent 1st hitbox Bairs (Top Hitbox, low knockback) can be followed up with all kind of stuff, 3rd hit sweetspot Dair is a much better finishing launcher than Ness' Dair. While Lucas can't string aerials as well together as Ness, he seems much betetr at stringing aerials to ground moves.
Also, while Lucas has no real finishers in the air at moderate percents, Ness only really has his Back Air. His Down-Air is a spike like Lucas' Bair, his Fair can't really kill, his Nair has about as much killing potential as Lucas' Nair, Fair or 2nd hitbox Bair (that is, at very high percentages), their Uairs seem to be about equal (not sure on that one) and Lucas has PSI Magnet (Which doesn't find that much use TBH, but has very nice trajectory when it hits).

Now on the second paragraph on the quote: You say that Ness has more reliable finishers than Lucas and much more priority. I disagree with both, to be honest. Less with the first statement, more with the second. Ness finishes with his throws, his F-Smash and his Bair. Lucas finishes with his smashes (Mainly F-Smash, some Downsmash, Up-Smash when possible). To be honest I'd say Lucas' F-Smash is a more reliable finisher than any of Ness', safe for possibly Bair. It's extremely fast and powerful and can be setup with Dair/Nair at finishing percentages (I am talking about ~100% here, as both Ness and Lucas can kill people in the 150%+ range with most of their attacks and throws).

Also, excuse my rudeness, but how the hell has Ness got much better priority than Lucas? As I've explained before, Lucas has a ton of disjointed hitboxes in the air and at the ground, a tilt game you admitted was better than Ness'... I fail to see Ness'superiority here. If anything, in looks like Lucas wins this thing with the power of hexagonal attacks >_> After all, they're the epitome of geometry. Seriously though, Ness has good priority when compared to much of the Brawl cast, but Lucas' seems even better.


Another problem I got is with your explanations on the different matchups: ROB is a good example. You say Ness is the better choice because ROB's powerful moves have enough range to outdo Lucas who won't be able to touch him, yet elsewhere you write Lucas' has a range superior to Ness'... I don't quite understand where you're coming from. Not to mention you say ROB's projectiles have better range and speed than Lucas' projectiles (Which is obviously true), but you don't mention that ROB can't spam his projectiles nearly as well as Lucas. In addition to that, Lucas' has the better PSI Magnet for Laser absorption and the faster F-Smash for Gyro reflecting (which is awesome).

Another thing is the matchup of Ness vs. Lucas... I believe that even in this particular matchup, Lucas wins. You say Ness outdoes Lucas' in aerials, a point I have already talkes about earlier in my post. Then you say a careful Ness won't have to worry too much about Lucas' tilts, which I say is not true and not really a good statement... I could say a careful Lucas can avoid Ness' aerials pretty easy and dominate him on the ground. Careful playing in general makes things more complicated. If anything, Ness has to play more offensively against Lucas since both can't realy too much on their projectile games due to PSI Magnet, while Lucas - as I said before, sorry T_T - simply has a better air-to-ground game and certainly doesn't lack priority.
You also don't mention the obvious better recovery that Lucas got. While it's true that hanging on the ledge stops Lucas' tether, you can't simultaneously do something about his PKT 2- and trying to cancel it out with your own simply sounds ********, sorry, as Lucas can use PKT2 very fast. You'd have to fire your PKT in advance, and in response Lucas could absorb it with PSI Magnet and still recover.

What I also think you really don't mention enough in the matchups is the Rope Snake. Spacing against Lucas is much harder than against Ness, since Lucas, who already profits from a campy playstyle, got a ranged grab that really, really hurts. While missing a grab certainly leaves you open and Ness got a ncie grab animation, I think the Snake is one of the bigger things Lucas has above Ness... Not to mention that while Ness has more KO pwoer with his throws, Lucas can combo better. Both can't really combo well from throws at higher percents, but Lucas' D-Throw is a better combo move than Ness' D-Throw at lower percents, since it sends them straight up (as opposed to Ness, who sends them diagonally forward, which can be capitalized on even more with proper DI).

That's about it. I've made my point clear in my opening statement, and if you want to argue against my points, feel free to do so, I'm open for a good debate =D I just want to make it clear that I don't think Ness sucks, I just think Lucas is better.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Im pretty sure Lucas doesn't have a disjointed Forward Air. It's a simple kick.

 

[Serpit]

Im pretty sure Lucas doesn't have a disjointed Forward Air. It's a simple kick.

His Fair has a hitbox (hexagon) that extends beyond his vulnerable body. That's a disjointed hitbox.

 

[Aevin]

While I agree that Ness has a slight aerial edge over Lucas, I don't think it's as big as you make it out to be. For beginners, while priority isn't defined through disjointed hitboxes, having them really helps. Ness has a disjointed Fair, Lucas has a disjointed Fair, Dair and Bair. In addition to that, Lucas' Bair has as much of a wall-like effect as Ness', in that it's high priority, great range and hard to break through.

I'm sorry, but I've got to disagree. Ness's aerials are superior in terms of duration and recovery. Lucas's forward aerial may have a disjointed hitbox, but it's not nearly pronounced enough to match Ness's. His back aerial is good, but difficut to hit with, as is his up aerial. Bottom line, when I rely heavily on Lucas's aerials, I get hit, whereas when I rely on Ness's, they get hit. To me, that pretty much proves the point. I'll try to use Lucas's air combat more and give you the benefit of the doubt, but I haven't exactly been underusing them now. His neutral aerial is fantastic for comboing--but for comboing near the ground, which is where I think Lucas is more comfortable. You've also give Ness's forward aerial credit for its ability to combo easily into things like grabs, yoyos or an up tilt. Lucas's aerials combo well into ground-based attacks, whereas Ness's aerials chain repeatedly into each other. I don't see how I could be overemphasizing Ness's aerial superiority when it's simply what the character does the best, and I don't see Lucas even coming close.

I also think people over-emphasize the keep-away game of Lucas: He can combo. Lucas' Nair alone is a better combo move than most of Ness' aerials, low percent Fairs/Bair or high percent 1st hitbox Bairs (Top Hitbox, low knockback) can be followed up with all kind of stuff, 3rd hit sweetspot Dair is a much better finishing launcher than Ness' Dair. While Lucas can't string aerials as well together as Ness, he seems much betetr at stringing aerials to ground moves.

Funny. I hadn't read this, and so it's saying exactly what I said above. In my general descriptions I may be overemphasizing his keep away game as you say. However in the character strategy section I cover several combos. Most of these ultimately get the opponent away from him, but I'm not trying to say he can't combo. Comparing Lucas's nair to Ness's aerials seems kind of an odd comparison, however. It combos well into ground attacks, yes. But virtually every aerial of Ness's is a combo move into another.

Also, while Lucas has no real finishers in the air at moderate percents, Ness only really has his Back Air. His Down-Air is a spike like Lucas' Bair, his Fair can't really kill, his Nair has about as much killing potential as Lucas' Nair, Fair or 2nd hitbox Bair (that is, at very high percentages), their Uairs seem to be about equal (not sure on that one) and Lucas has PSI Magnet (Which doesn't find that much use TBH, but has very nice trajectory when it hits).

Personally, I find Ness's headbutt and spike VERY easy to kill with, although is back air is the best. The neutral air doesn't have great killing power; they've reduced this from melee. Still, if you compare Ness's options to Lucas's, I still believe that he has a wider array of reliable killing moves. Lucas's spikes are much more difficult to land, and the Ness's ability to KO reliably from three angles in the air beats out Lucas's ability to kill dubiously from two, in my opinion.

Now on the second paragraph on the quote: You say that Ness has more reliable finishers than Lucas and much more priority. I disagree with both, to be honest. Less with the first statement, more with the second. Ness finishes with his throws, his F-Smash and his Bair. Lucas finishes with his smashes (Mainly F-Smash, some Downsmash, Up-Smash when possible). To be honest I'd say Lucas' F-Smash is a more reliable finisher than any of Ness', safe for possibly Bair. It's extremely fast and powerful and can be setup with Dair/Nair at finishing percentages (I am talking about ~100% here, as both Ness and Lucas can kill people in the 150%+ range with most of their attacks and throws).

Lucas's forward smash is fantastic. Can't disagree with you there. However, I see it as the exception the rule. Most of Lucas's killers are difficult to hit with, and even his bat has short range. As for throws ... I see Ness's back throw killing much sooner than Lucas's throws. I kill with Lucas's back throw at about 130%, but that's only when my opponent DI's that way. Here's my basis for comparison: Ness's killing moves are his back throw, his bat, his back aerial, his headbutt, his down aerial, his forward throw (very situational). Most of these are quite simple to hit with; you grab someone when they're above 120% or so, and you know they're done for. You tap someone with that quick back kick in the same range, and you know they're a goner. Lucas's are his up smash, down smash, forward smash, his back aerial down aerial and up aerial, and his back throw. His up and down smash are difficult to place and require predicting the enemy. His forward smash is his most reliable killer, but still has quite short range. His back and down aerial require very, very careful placement which is easily influenced by the opponent's evasion (much more so than say, Ness's down air), and his back throw only seems to kill when opponents allow it to. At very high percentages, his forward tilt and forward aerial can kill, but again, I don't consider those very reliable since you have to get their damage so high. Looking over, it may be innacurate to say Ness has more killing moves, but I still say he has more reliable killing moves, and I find it much easier to KO with him than Lucas.

Also, excuse my rudeness, but how the hell has Ness got much better priority than Lucas? As I've explained before, Lucas has a ton of disjointed hitboxes in the air and at the ground, a tilt game you admitted was better than Ness'... I fail to see Ness'superiority here. If anything, in looks like Lucas wins this thing with the power of hexagonal attacks >_> After all, they're the epitome of geometry. Seriously though, Ness has good priority when compared to much of the Brawl cast, but Lucas' seems even better.

I'm referring mostly to Ness's aerial priority. My reasoning is simple--I get swatted away in the air with Lucas, but with Ness I do the swatting. Perhaps "priority" isn't the full story, but I could even argue Ness is better at countering opponents' attacks on the ground, due to the speed and range on his Yoyos, which properly time stop enemies in their tracks. I can use my up smash with Ness to stop all manner of nasty things, such as most of Ganondorf's high power, high priority attacks including his wizard's foot and massive punch attack. Lucas's tilts are great, but still relatively short ranged.

Another problem I got is with your explanations on the different matchups: ROB is a good example. You say Ness is the better choice because ROB's powerful moves have enough range to outdo Lucas who won't be able to touch him, yet elsewhere you write Lucas' has a range superior to Ness'... I don't quite understand where you're coming from. Not to mention you say ROB's projectiles have better range and speed than Lucas' projectiles (Which is obviously true), but you don't mention that ROB can't spam his projectiles nearly as well as Lucas. In addition to that, Lucas' has the better PSI Magnet for Laser absorption and the faster F-Smash for Gyro reflecting (which is awesome).

I feel like if you were fighting the ROB I'm fighting, you wouldn't disagree so strongly. As for Lucas's range, let me explain. Lucas has good range on his B moves. PK Fire is an obvious example. Thing is, ROB's lazer pretty much negates PK Fire use. You're thinking of the "fizzle" effect when ROB uses it twice in a row. Thing is, it only stays "fizzled" for about a second, then it's at "normal power" for about twenty seconds before reaching full power. Although it won't be in the "super" state, He can use his lazer every few seconds. No amount of PK Fire spamming will get through that. So, when I PK Fire, I get lazered. When I PK Thunder, I get lazered. When I PK Freeze, guess what. I get lasered. In the unlikely event he doesn't have a laser ready, I get gyroed. This guy is ridiculously good with ROB. However, ROB is big and easily jugglable with Ness in ways I don't see Lucas matching. I fight this guy constantly, and if there were a reliable way of beating him with Lucas, I would have found it. Reflecting Gyro's is cool, and I need to do it more. But as for absorbing lasers, this is VERY hard due to that thing's speed. If you wait until you see him firing it, it's too late almost regardless of distance. You have to KNOW when he's going to use it and activate before hand, in which case I think Lucas's slight additional speed on PSI Magnet doesn't count for that much.

Another thing is the matchup of Ness vs. Lucas... I believe that even in this particular matchup, Lucas wins. You say Ness outdoes Lucas' in aerials, a point I have already talkes about earlier in my post. Then you say a careful Ness won't have to worry too much about Lucas' tilts, which I say is not true and not really a good statement... I could say a careful Lucas can avoid Ness' aerials pretty easy and dominate him on the ground. Careful playing in general makes things more complicated. If anything, Ness has to play more offensively against Lucas since both can't realy too much on their projectile games due to PSI Magnet, while Lucas - as I said before, sorry T_T - simply has a better air-to-ground game and certainly doesn't lack priority.

This seems obvious to me, I'm afraid. Neither can rely heavily on projectiles, but Ness usually doesn't do that anyway. Lucas does, meaning a big part of his abilities are disabled. Lucas has good tilts, but they're generally short ranged. His forward tilt is the big exception, but Ness will surely approach from the air, probably with his forward aerial. I know you think Lucas's tilts have better range than I give them credit for, but I still don't see anything in his ground combat (save for his exposing up smashes) that will compete with Ness's forward aerial in priority. In the air, too, Lucas's forward aerial and even his neutral aerial should lose to Ness's. Placed carefully, Ness's dash attack, another main approach, will outrange Lucas's forward tilt. I'm not saying Ness is better than Lucas, but in this particular match up I think he has more going for him.

You also don't mention the obvious better recovery that Lucas got. While it's true that hanging on the ledge stops Lucas' tether, you can't simultaneously do something about his PKT 2- and trying to cancel it out with your own simply sounds ********, sorry, as Lucas can use PKT2 very fast. You'd have to fire your PKT in advance, and in response Lucas could absorb it with PSI Magnet and still recover.

I mention Lucas's better recovery earlier in the guide, and I think it goes without saying. As for the PK Thunder trick ... It's a very situational thing, but I hardly consider it "********." It would have to be a mind game kind of thing, but I can see it being useful. If he's using PSI Magnet, steer away. Easily done, and you should be expecting it. He'll still sink a little bit from PSI Magnet, which could end up harming his recovery.

What I also think you really don't mention enough in the matchups is the Rope Snake. Spacing against Lucas is much harder than against Ness, since Lucas, who already profits from a campy playstyle, got a ranged grab that really, really hurts. While missing a grab certainly leaves you open and Ness got a ncie grab animation, I think the Snake is one of the bigger things Lucas has above Ness... Not to mention that while Ness has more KO pwoer with his throws, Lucas can combo better. Both can't really combo well from throws at higher percents, but Lucas' D-Throw is a better combo move than Ness' D-Throw at lower percents, since it sends them straight up (as opposed to Ness, who sends them diagonally forward, which can be capitalized on even more with proper DI).

*sigh* Your arguments depend on me agreeing with you in your initial statements, and frankly I don't. It's tiring to repeatedly tell you how much I disagree with your assessments of range and priority. As far as grabs, I believe what Ness lacks in range he gains in recovery speed. I feel much safer using Ness's grabs, and I'm still convinced his throws are superior to Lucas's. I STRONGLY disagree that Lucas's down throw combos better than Ness's. Ness's down throw is the main throw I use, and was in Melee as well, specifically because it comos easily. Granted, if someone DI's sharply away it's somewhat tricky to get at them, but I can still almost always get at them with a forward aerial.

That's about it. I've made my point clear in my opening statement, and if you want to argue against my points, feel free to do so, I'm open for a good debate =D I just want to make it clear that I don't think Ness sucks, I just think Lucas is better.

I think that's incorrect. To be honest, every time I've heard people claim this, I've wondered where the reasoning comes from. I play Lucas more than Ness, but generally feel much more powerful when playing Ness. With Lucas, I seem to come up against more "brick wall" types of opponents who are next to impossible to approach. The opponents I face punish me constantly for missing any smash attacks, which I'm very careful not to overuse. They hit me before I get close enough with my aerials. They hit me out of PK Fire and other projectiles. I refuse to believe my Ness is simply better than my Lucas--all my opponents seem to be claiming the opposite. But I see a great amount of strengths in Ness, which at least compete with Lucas's advantages. I still say Ness's aerial combat is far superior, and I still say Lucas's short-ranged combat is quick but limited. I'm afraid you haven't convinced me much at all. Of course, my way of playing is certainly not the only way, but against my opponents much of what you're describing simply doesn't work. And I'm afraid my personal experience in battle is more trustworthy to me than your assertions. I'm sure you feel the same.

 

[Serpit]

And I'm afraid my personal experience in battle is more trustworthy to me than your assertions. I'm sure you feel the same.

That about sums it up, I guess ^_^

I really respect you there. You make a lot of good points and debate in a civilized manner, but I fear that ultimately this argument will lead to nothing, as we both base much of what we say on how this and that "feels" for us. I hate it that it seems like I'm backing away from the debate, so if you feel like that and want to continue I will gladly make a detailed counter-post, but I think right now the discussion wouldn't lead anywhere. When I get my US version I'd love to play against you to help both of us understanding the other one's point of view.

Anyway, I'm glad you took the time to reply, but considering you took the time to write this guide, it's not surprising. Again, I apologize if you want to continue the argument, so please say so if you want. I'm sure both us will have a more experience with the game in some time and better ability to judge the boys.