MOTHER Character Discussion Thread

[Speculator]

You would be ill-advised to motion this kind of atitude and insults towards fellow users.

That wasn't an insult.

 

[Hong]

That wasn't an insult.

On the other hand, your post clearly starts with:

That's a dumb thing to want.

As per SmashBoards Terms of Service:

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Respect other users. Flaming (insulting, heated arguing with) other members is not allowed. Demeaning or derogatory comments based on race, religion, sexual orientation, culture, ethnicity, handicap, nationality or gender will not be tolerated. Physical threats against and repeated harassment of other members is strictly prohibited. If another user is flaming or harassing you, you should not retaliate--instead, report it to a moderator.

A declaration that someone's wants, and by extension their views and values, are dumb, is disrespectful and insulting. That is needlessly demeaning of their ideals and opinions. You can have that entire post without telling a user their opinion is dumb. It's unnecessary.

Of course, as it is not a severe statement (as opposed to outright calling someone dumb or an idiot), there is no warning or infraction involved, so much as I am advising you against this kind of behaviour in the future. If you do not agree with this stance, you are advised to contest it by means of forum support or my inbox as opposed to derailing the thread.

 

[Glaciacott]

I shouldn't have played Mother 3 so close to a Smash Bros release.

Now I want Kumatora plus an Osohe Castle stage. And at least one of those things probably won't ever happen. T_T

 

[Speculator]

On the other hand, your post clearly starts with:


As per SmashBoards Terms of Service:A declaration that someone's wants, and by extension their views and values, are dumb, is disrespectful and insulting. That is needlessly demeaning of their ideals and opinions. You can have that entire post without telling a user their opinion is dumb. It's unnecessary.

Of course, as it is not a severe statement (as opposed to outright calling someone dumb or an idiot), there is no warning or infraction involved, so much as I am advising you against this kind of behaviour in the future. If you do not agree with this stance, you are advised to contest it by means of forum support or my inbox as opposed to derailing the thread.

I didn't make a derogatory comment based on race, religion, sexual orientation, culture, ethnicity, handicap, nationality or gender, nor did I infer you were dumb for wanting a dumb thing. I think you might be overreacting a teensy tiny bit to a relatively harmless sentence, but if I think someone's position on an issue is dumb then I'm gonna say so. If you disagree, then put forward alternative arguments! That's how a discussion is started.

 

[Glaciacott]

It seems like you cannot grasp the true form of Hong's position

 

[PigmaskColonel]

OK, let me try to change the topic from arguments to... Newcomers! As much as people want the Masked Man, I think (and hope) that we'll get Porky/Pokey in either his Spider Mech or Bed Mech.

It seems right what with EarthBound being re-released and all. Also, it'd probably be better representation of the Mother series since Porky was in both EarthBound and Mother 3 (although the perfect representation would be to have Ninten, Ness, Lucas and Porky).

 

[candyissweet]

I don't think Lucas will come back because of what Sakurai said about removing clone characters. Lucas and Ness had a lot of different attacks, but the problem is that they can be used as one character through customizable movesets. This is why Toon Link still made it in, because he is naturally faster and you can't just have him as a normal Link because of this speed. Lucina's blade affects all throughout the blade and customizable movesets cannot change this.

Because of this, I'm betting that Sakurai will find a new Mother character to replace Lucas with a more unique gameplay, since it would be strange to go from two characters to one character. I'm voting for Claus because he uses a mix of PSI and mechanical attacks, and he does seem like a fit candidate for Smash Bros. I think Ness and Claus would be more diverse since Claus has the beam sword, arm cannon, and jetpack wings.

 

[Jae]

At some point during my Mother "obsession", I really wanted Kumatora or Duster to be a playable character.
Especially Duster. There's plenty that can be utilized for the guy (his Thief tools for example) and isn't a PSI-user either. Oh, he's a kicker too.
Unfortunately, I don't really see these two getting that kind of position though. Perhaps, an Assist Trophy at most, but at least a regular trophy (so I can see what they really look like).

 

[Spinosaurus]

I don't think Lucas will come back because of what Sakurai said about removing clone characters. Lucas and Ness had a lot of different attacks, but the problem is that they can be used as one character through customizable movesets. This is why Toon Link still made it in, because he is naturally faster and you can't just have him as a normal Link because of this speed. Lucina's blade affects all throughout the blade and customizable movesets cannot change this.

Because of this, I'm betting that Sakurai will find a new Mother character to replace Lucas with a more unique gameplay, since it would be strange to go from two characters to one character. I'm voting for Claus because he uses a mix of PSI and mechanical attacks, and he does seem like a fit candidate for Smash Bros. I think Ness and Claus would be more diverse since Claus has the beam sword, arm cannon, and jetpack wings.

You can't customize normal moves, which is what really differentiates Lucas from Ness.

Also, Lucas and Ness do have different properties. Lucas has a significantly higher air speed for one, and despite that, he's a much more grounded fighter compared to Ness, who is better at the air. They play really differently.

If Lucas is cut, and he probably is, it's more to due with him not really..."deserving" it. I dislike using that word, but I couldn't think of anything else. He doesn't really cater to anyone but a minority, considering how mixed his game is. Granted, having the same concept as Ness despite their differences all said and done is just another nail to the coffin, since to they ARE clones to anyone who is unfamiliar with both Ness and Lucas. Wolf at least has the added benefit from coming from a series with a big cult following (namely, if not only, Star Fox 64).

Unfortunately, I don't really see these two getting that kind of position though. Perhaps, an Assist Trophy at most, but at least a regular trophy (so I can see what they really look like).

There's the clay models lol

Duster is so rad though. Best member of the main team. Fastest guy despite having a limp, god damn.

 

[pupNapoleon]

If we get a new Mother character, I hope it's Porky.


Also what if did something with Ness where Ninten and Lucas we're completely different skins? They'd share a slot and have the same moves (but with character move customization, you could choose which PK attacks they use). That way, you could choose form the three Mother protagonists. I think that'll be pretty neat. Just thinking out loud here...

Legit what I want as well.
I think this may have been what Sakurai was going to do as well... (maybe not Porky), but then decided, based on his text with Lucina, that if stats were going to be different, then the characters were going to be too. This is "why Lucina is not an alt costume for Marth."

Perhaps I personally like alt characters, because it keeps us with the option of more characters than we otherwise would have had, and I think the Mother Boys are the best place to showcase this, honestly! More variation, too. Everyone loves variation!
We don't need two characters for Mother/Earthbound. Yet if we get it, they should actually be more varied, and we get Porky instead. Mecha!

I hope I'm wrong about Lucina's justification confirming the two as separate, though; the two are similar enough that the move differences could just be customization (I am aware they fight differently- I much preferred Lucas). I just think it represents Mother better to have the one character who switches out in costume between protagonists, since that is what the game does anyway.

 

[Jae]

There's the clay models lol

Duster is so rad though. Best member of the main team. Fastest guy despite having a limp, god damn.

Oh, I know of those already haha. Yeah, the guy's a total soldier. Tonda gossa.

 

[Speculator]

I don't think Lucas will come back because of what Sakurai said about removing clone characters. Lucas and Ness had a lot of different attacks, but the problem is that they can be used as one character through customizable movesets.

They can't, really. The special moves are the only thing that's the same between the two characters in the first place. The difference between Ness and Lucas is much more distinct than Toon Link's speed or Lucina's blade - every one of their normal, aerial, smash attacks and grabs behave differently. What's the point of using customizable specials to accommodate specials that are almost the same anyway?

Because of this, I'm betting that Sakurai will find a new Mother character to replace Lucas with a more unique gameplay, since it would be strange to go from two characters to one character. I'm voting for Claus because he uses a mix of PSI and mechanical attacks, and he does seem like a fit candidate for Smash Bros. I think Ness and Claus would be more diverse since Claus has the beam sword, arm cannon, and jetpack wings.

It's extremely unlikely for a character with such a small amount of on-screen time to replace the main protagonist. Compared with Lucas, Claus barely appears in Mother 3 (and even less so only counting his appearances as the Masked Man). Lucas's screen time is nearly 100%. The whole reason he was chosen to represent Mother 3 is because he's the character you play as and the character you share the adventure with. He's Mother 3's Ness, and the similarities between the two are incidental. If Sakurai has any concerns about Lucas not being 'unique' enough, the logical thing to do is simply change Ness's Final Smash and replace a couple of Lucas's specials, not scrap him.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

I'd like Paula as an Alt for Ness

 

[Speculator]

I'd like Paula as an Alt for Ness

^

Something like this is the best we're going to get in terms of new Mother reps, in my opinion. Most of the Mother kids have roughly the same body shape, so I could see other PSI users like Ninten or Paula maybe making it in as alternate costumes for the characters already present.

 

[4cast]

Ninten is not a Clone Of Ness Ness is a clone of Ninten
but It would be Ninten they would add to complete the triangle; I really like this design of Ninten I found on the web as well I hope they would take some kind of inspiration from this design

 

[Gene]

I still would rather have a villain as a newcomer. Either Heavily Armed Pokey or Mother 1 Giygas with Mother 2 Giygas final smash. Sakurai could even troll the Mewtwo fans if he were to make Giygas look like Mewtwo in a new trailer.

A new stage could be the Devil's Machine which would complement both characters. If Sakurai doesn't mind logic we can have a playable Giygas while have the devil's machine that's not containing anything.

 

[4cast]

If no one has posted this then I ask WHY THE F*** NOT???!!! but if they have good job on your part!

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Giegue alt for Mewtwo if it's in?

 

[Dinoman96]

^

Something like this is the best we're going to get in terms of new Mother reps, in my opinion. Most of the Mother kids have roughly the same body shape, so I could see other PSI users like Ninten or Paula maybe making it in as alternate costumes for the characters already present.

Giegue alt for Mewtwo if it's in?

I believe that, for the most part, Sakurai is trying to avoid giving characters alt costumes that turn them into another. It'd feel a bit unprofessional to win a round with "Paula", only for the announcer to say "This game's winner is...Ness!". And does Paula use a yo-yo and bat like Ness does?

Alt costumes like Overalls Wario, Female Robin, Male WFT, etc work because the character itself remains the same, just with a different form and appearance. This is the same design philosophy Project M has with its costumes (IE Marth will be able to wear Sigurd's attire as his alt costume, but won't actually become Sigurd).

 

[Hong]

It'd feel a bit unprofessional to win a round with "Paula", only for the announcer to say "This game's winner is...Ness!". And does Paula use a yo-yo and bat like Ness does?

Actually, in the Famitsu column on Lucina, Mr. Sakruai never said anything against characters who are another character character sharing a slot. Granted, Lucina is "Marth", but she was originally a mere costume and was only given her own slot because they made a single change to her mechanics. All the voice work would have been there regardless.

So in that sense, it's not out of the question for them to have the audience and announcer acknowledge Paula as Paula. Yes, all four characters from EarthBound can use yo-yos, though it is not advised with Poo since he'll just lose out on damage. Similarly, she can swing a frying pan strictly horizontally and it would have the same hitbox as a bat.

 

[Speculator]

I believe that, for the most part, Sakurai is trying to avoid giving characters alt costumes that turn them into another. It'd feel a bit unprofessional to win a round with "Paula", only for the announcer to say "This game's winner is...Ness!". And does Paula use a yo-yo and bat like Ness does?

Like @ Hong said, Sakurai did talk a little bit about this while Lucina was being revealed. He specifically mentioned appearance, voices and names not being an obstacle to alternate costumes. If they can link WFT and Robin to different audio clips based on the costume they're wearing, I can only assume it's easy to do the same with announcer choice files and name graphics. An alt costume is basically a model swap, so provided the character has the same properties and the same animations the visuals and audio can be pretty much whatever.

I think at last year's E3, Sakurai mused something about alternate costumes into physically different people making the original character less unique. I get the reasoning behind that, but since Ness is a very genericized Earthbound rep anyway I don't think it would be too much of a problem.

 

[Captain Bananoz!!!]

They can't, really. The special moves are the only thing that's the same between the two characters in the first place. The difference between Ness and Lucas is much more distinct than Toon Link's speed or Lucina's blade - every one of their normal, aerial, smash attacks and grabs behave differently. What's the point of using customizable specials to accommodate specials that are almost the same anyway?

The place where you are wrong is that Lucas might fit your definition of an individual character, but in order to make it into the game, he must surpass SAKARAI's criteria for a clone character. And trust me, I would be sad seeing Lucas gone, too, since he was one of my favorites in Brawl. But let's take a look at two "clone" characters: Toon Link and Lucina. Toon Link has greater speed and thus can KO better while being easier to KO himself. Just a speed difference changes EVERYTHING, standard and special moves. This can also be said about Lucina. Her blade has power distributed evenly throughout, but it's shorter. This changes EVERYTHING. You need to strike in a different width of the blade than Marth, affecting standard and special moves. No wlet's look at Lucas and Ness. Yes, their individual moves, grabs, aerials, and smash attacks may differ, but these are not changes in the character themselves, but the individual moves. There aren't really many strategic differences in using Lucas in opposed to Ness, you just execute their individual moves differently. THIS IS WHAT SAKARAI MEANS BE CLONE CHARACTER.

It's extremely unlikely for a character with such a small amount of on-screen time to replace the main protagonist. Compared with Lucas, Claus barely appears in Mother 3 (and even less so only counting his appearances as the Masked Man). Lucas's screen time is nearly 100%. The whole reason he was chosen to represent Mother 3 is because he's the character you play as and the character you share the adventure with. He's Mother 3's Ness, and the similarities between the two are incidental. If Sakurai has any concerns about Lucas not being 'unique' enough, the logical thing to do is simply change Ness's Final Smash and replace a couple of Lucas's specials, not scrap him.

Not really the case anymore if you take Fire Emblem into account, where Chrom, the main protagonist of Awakening, was not added into the roster of playable characters due to his lack of style that would dullen the variety in the roster. Sakarai isn't necessarily focusing on protagonists, but rather the more unique characters that would be fun to play as and would add a unique addition to the roster. So I still think other characters like Claus might have a chance, though I feel that Jeff has a higher chance at the moment since, like you said, he appears more often than Claus does in Mother 3, and he hasn't made an appearance as an Assist Trophy yet. (And PSI users get kinda dull in my opinion) Or they could just keep it to one Mother rep. (Subtracting a rep would be kind of weird, though)

 

[Xermo]

This is why Toon Link still made it in, because he is naturally faster and you can't just have him as a normal Link because of this speed.

Seems to me like you can buff speed real easy.

 

[Speculator]

The place where you are wrong is that Lucas might fit your definition of an individual character, but in order to make it into the game, he must surpass SAKARAI's criteria for a clone character. And trust me, I would be sad seeing Lucas gone, too, since he was one of my favorites in Brawl. But let's take a look at two "clone" characters: Toon Link and Lucina. Toon Link has greater speed and thus can KO better while being easier to KO himself. Just a speed difference changes EVERYTHING, standard and special moves. This can also be said about Lucina. Her blade has power distributed evenly throughout, but it's shorter. This changes EVERYTHING. You need to strike in a different width of the blade than Marth, affecting standard and special moves. No wlet's look at Lucas and Ness. Yes, their individual moves, grabs, aerials, and smash attacks may differ, but these are not changes in the character themselves, but the individual moves. There aren't really many strategic differences in using Lucas in opposed to Ness, you just execute their individual moves differently. THIS IS WHAT SAKARAI MEANS BE CLONE CHARACTER.

I don't entirely follow. Are you saying the marginal differences in attack speed/properties with Toon Link/Lucina make them more worthy of slots of their own than Lucas, who shares only four or five moves with Ness? I think Lucas's fight strategy is quite a bit different to Ness's, just as a result of having a different arsenal of attacks. All those things you mentioned with TL and Lucina - attack speed, reach, sweet spots etc are all differences present between Ness and Lucas. I see what you're saying about how one change to a character's properties (Lucina's blade, for example) has an effect on all the character's moves as a result, but I don't see how that's more 'valid' than a character that has an almost entirely different array of moves in the first place.

Look at it this way; you can say that Marth and Lucina have the same attacks, but different weights and body proportions. Conversely, Ness and Lucas have the same weight and body proportions, but their attacks are largely different. Why is it that the former should merit an additional roster slot, but the latter shouldn't? Marth and Lucina have the same normal attacks, but Sakurai decided she shouldn't simply be an alternate costume. Why would Lucas, who has markedly different normal attacks that couldn't be supplemented by moveset customization, be demoted to a costume with that in mind?

Not really the case anymore if you take Fire Emblem into account, where Chrom, the main protagonist of Awakening, was not added into the roster of playable characters due to his lack of style that would dullen the variety in the roster. Sakarai isn't necessarily focusing on protagonists, but rather the more unique characters that would be fun to play as and would add a unique addition to the roster.

Actually I think there's a clear case to call Robin the 'main' protagonist of Awakening, not Chrom. I can't think of any examples in SSB where a side or support character from a game has been included over the main character or mascot. The closest I would say is probably Lucina being included over Chrom - if we take Robin to be the main protagonist and Lucina to be the tertiary protagonist, that means she took precedent over Chrom as the secondary protagonist. However, Sakurai has discussed in depth how Lucina came to be promoted from a costume swap for Marth, so I'd be wary of taking her example as a model for discussing other characters.

So I still think other characters like Claus might have a chance, though I feel that Jeff has a higher chance at the moment since, like you said, he appears more often than Claus does in Mother 3, and he hasn't made an appearance as an Assist Trophy yet. (And PSI users get kinda dull in my opinion) Or they could just keep it to one Mother rep. (Subtracting a rep would be kind of weird, though)

The only series ever to go down in the number of reps was Mario from Melee to Brawl, when Dr. Mario was removed without a series replacement. Mario is obviously a much larger and well-represented series than Mother and could take the hit, but I agree it would be weird for them to effectively half the number of Mother reps by cutting it down to just Ness. Something that's easy to forget when talking about whether Lucas should take priority or not is the fact that he already took priority in Brawl, over characters like Claus or Kumatora or a second Earthbound character. When it comes to discussing SSB4, Lucas is now not only just the main protagonist of Mother 3 but is also bolstered by a previous appearance in the SSB series.

With the Mario series going back to five slots, Zelda and Pokemon looking to follow suit, four Fire Emblem characters and Palutena, I have become more open to the idea of a third Mother character. I think the rest of the roster has increased to the point where Mother could feasibly get a third character and still remain roughly proportionate, despite being such a small series. Though I'd like to see Mother 1 get a nod, I think the most likely candidates are an Earthbound party member (probably Jeff or Poo) or some variation of Porky.

 

[Weeman]

Masked Man is in, i'm sure of it.

 

[verysleepywolf]

The only two reps I support are Porky and Starman. Masked Man to me doesn't seem like a fair inclusion when Porky is much more important and overlaps with two of the games. Same goes for Starman, but possibly even moreso because he can help with Mother 1 representation. The idea of Ninten turns me off as well because I honestly do not want tons of effort going into another psychic boy with a baseball cap and a bat. Unless he was an easy clone, then we'd have roster padding which is still not desireable imo. Completing the trio isn't really a good enough reason to use Ninten, do we need Blastoise and Venusaur now that Charizard is here? No because there are far more sides to the Pokemon/Mother universe to explore.

Oh, idea: Mewtwo and Giegue as semi-clones.

 

[Hong]

Found this beauty on r/smashbros:

Spoiler

 

[iam8bit]

Personally, I think Paula would work better as a Ness clone than Lucas. Ness + Paula would be great Earthbound representatives, which is the only Mother game known worldwide.

Either Paula or Porky would be good substitutes for Lucas, but if he ends up coming back, I'd be happy regardless.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm hoping for a Master Belch AT.

 

[Skyfox2000]

I don't know about you guys but I want to se Giygas as an AT. and Masked Man playable!

 

[Hong]

I'll take anything from the series as long as they are not two characters of the same archetype.

 

[Speculator]

Found this beauty on r/smashbros:

Spoiler

I don't know if I'd like 'a Starman' as a rep for Mother 1. A Starman isn't really a character, it's a description of an otherwise nameless baddie. It strikes me a little like having 'a Hammer Bro.' or 'a Stalfos' playable - iconic, high-ranking grunts of the main villain, but not really characters in the same sense as everybody else on the roster. All that Mother 1 stuff can be provided by Ninten, who is an actual person; I get not wanting another character of the same archetype, but when that archetype is 'main protagonist' then it's really hard to see anyone prioritized above them.

In the past I probably would have argued against Ninten for being visually too similar to Ness, however looking at Marth and Lucina that's obviously not an issue. Also, there's definitely an interesting mechanic to be made out of his athsma.

 

[Glaciacott]

I don't know if I'd like 'a Starman' as a rep for Mother 1. A Starman isn't really a character, it's a description of an otherwise nameless baddie. It strikes me a little like having 'a Hammer Bro.' or 'a Stalfos' playable - iconic, high-ranking grunts of the main villain, but not really characters in the same sense as everybody else on the roster. All that Mother 1 stuff can be provided by Ninten, who is an actual person; I get not wanting another character of the same archetype, but when that archetype is 'main protagonist' then it's really hard to see anyone prioritized above them.

In the past I probably would have argued against Ninten for being visually too similar to Ness, however looking at Marth and Lucina that's obviously not an issue. Also, there's definitely an interesting mechanic to be made out of his athsma.

Well, they could just give Ness homesickness and make one of his taunts calling home.

But really, aside from the flair of referring to the series ... would anyone actually like that?

 

[Speculator]

Well, they could just give Ness homesickness and make one of his taunts calling home.

But really, aside from the flair of referring to the series ... would anyone actually like that?

I was sort of joking It'd be a nice reference to make, though. If Ninten showed up he'd have to be very Mother 1-specific to make him a distinct character.

 

[Glaciacott]

I was sort of joking It'd be a nice reference to make, though. If Ninten showed up he'd have to be very Mother 1-specific to make him a distinct character.

He sings for his final Smash and makes the opposing players cry. In real life.

 

[4cast]

Hey Guys you know the SSB4 Leak with Duck Hunt Dr.Mario and some others? One of the Pink stages looks like Magicant To Me at least

 

[BluePikmin11]

I gotta admit, the Ness render looks badass awesome!

 

[4cast]

I gotta admit, the Ness render looks badass awesome!

Screw the Ness Render The Duck Hunt Portrait is 10X Better

 

[Hong]

The so-called leaked Ness is incorrect.

 

[4cast]

The so-called leaked Ness is incorrect.

Which One?