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Monty Python's Flying Mafia - SCUM VICTORY, Vult/Doop win the game!

ranmaru

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i mildly dislike gheb, fand, RR, and spak. i liked Nabes until he reduced an (imo) legit argument into "semantics". i like Ran today but tomorrow i will probably remember something scummy that he did and dislike him again. Kouse hasn't given me enough to work with.
I find Nabe interrupting my questioning interesting. I don't see the point in asking someone about their questioning before making a conclusion. I could understand asking after it, doing it before doesn't really help to get a good read. Gheb I am null on, I don't know where he stands.
 

Spak

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wait so just to clarify you liked gheb's post? i thought it was lazy and vague.
I liked the latter half of it, but didn't agree with the first little bit.
What do you think of Ran continuing to be aggressive and nudge Fand over what seems to be a disagreement over semantics? Or, is it what I'm saying it is?
I feel like Ran is going overboard with the vote (which looks super aggressive in comparison to what I've come to expect from Ran's voting style), but he's going off of the only lead that he has at the moment. Fanny looks like he's trying to save face while he clearly didn't read Defen's response fully, but I'm not sure if that puts him in the position of being scum... I'd like to remind everyone that people are suspicious by nature, so while Fanny "tainting" Ran's image could have been on purpose, it may have also been Fanny showing some of his suspicion towards another slot or pressuring Ran to see how he would react.
What do you think of Vult as he nudges your rump? Why's he doing it?
I think that Vult is trying to get a read on me, as I'm one of the people in this game he's played with before and he seemed to greatly dislike my slot before (and maybe even after?) the replacement. I'm fine with my rump being nudged, but I honestly think that Ryu needs more nudging to get active again.
Say no more!
No more!
Really? It looks like it was the opposite to me, also can you please explain more about them being a team? I think it's way too early to start looking at connections without any alignment info. You give a lot of possibilities in this post, so what's your reasoning? Is Kouse still your biggest scumlean?
Let's take a detailed look at Kouse's content thus far, starting at the beginning of the game:
  • #47 - RVS vote
  • #68 - States he needs to check the thread more, votes Vult for sticking out (this was right after thread sentiment swung towards Vult pressure).
  • #76 - Says that he is really quiet because he's distracted by other media and it's his first time playing Mafia
  • #78 - Says that he's suspicious of Vult because he "blackmailed" Defen (even though Vult already described how the "blackmail" wasn't scummy), which doesn't defend the read well at all.
  • #80 - Kouse doubts Ran and likes Ryu, which was completely unexplained (note that Ran was the only one questioning him so he doesn't like pressure, and goes along with thread sentiment with Ryu).
  • #86 - Explains the Ran read as him wanting "other people to looks scummy, getting himself out of the spotlight of suspicious and push somebody else in it". This makes no sense as Ran hadn't been pushed at all up to that point, and had been putting himself in the spotlight by asking questions and stating opinions on current events of the time.
  • #89 - Kouse says that nobody else was suspicious of him so he isn't in the spotlight (which nobody said he was, so this makes me think he's deadly afraid of being in the spotlight), and then tries to tangle his words around to make it sound like he's saying something that he wasn't (to avoid backtracking).
He then dips out of thread, never to be seen again. I'd be a bit more forgiving if he decided to say "hey, I screwed up, this was a noobie mistake", but it looks a LOT like he's trying to stay out of the spotlight, gets trapped by his own paranioa about being in the spotlight, tries to backtrack and turn the situation back on Ran, and flees at the slightest hint of pressure. I dunno about you, but that kind of action looks pretty scummy to me.

It's like 11:30 so I'll probably be off to bed soon. Talk to you all in the morning!
 

~ Gheb ~

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Hey look, it's Gheb and he even read the whole thread!

I first wanna make it clear that I take back whatever little I said about Ran and Kouse. Ran is super-awesome-obvious town in my book and ... I know it sounds crazy but ... I think he's right on just about everything so far?!? I also like Vult for the most part. They seem to be quite OK with each other too so I think the ideal scenario would be for us three to just ally up and steamroll this game asap. I think this one will go pretty fast.

Ryu, Doop and Spak all ... kinda exist but I don't really care about them a whole lot and I'm totally OK with putting a hold on reading them for an indefinite amount of time.

Kouse and Fanny are the scumteam and we should lynch them. Kouse has been exposed as scum pretty much in RVS and Fanny made some clumsy attempts to cover for him without aggroing Ran - who has both of them individually as scum reads. These are the hard stances I'm willing to commit to now until any of it turns out to be wrong. But to get this game going I think lynching Fanny is the right course of action.

Vote: FandangoX

:059:
 

Dooplissity

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hi hello i am here and not dead despite being a ghost

i was at a puzzle event at microsoft all saturday, then my tabletop group met for the first time today (after like a month of delays) so there was a lot of time sunk into final character changes now that the party was together and a big first session

i'll longpost thoughts first thing tomorrow morning, but i've been able to keep up via mobile so here's the tl;dr of where i'm at

like two of you asked if I had other reads in my first post - read the post. my reads are at the bottom i know it was long but cmon

really do not like nabe going "everyone should post new things! there's too much meandering" it's "rah rah go town" as **** but doesn't actually do anything - contrast this to ran's questioning, which is very solid and has made me reconsider my scum read on him (i don't view his as town but he's improved to null) nabe also does nothing but vote spak for some reason and then bicker with ran???

fand reads town - this is gut for now, i'll reread and figure out why tomorrow

vult reads town - his posts seem pretty unedited and genuine, i like that he dropped the defen thing after defen /outed rather than making a super easy vote park on the slot

spak i'm unsure about - i like his posts in general but his reads list is super noncommital and i dont like that at all

vote nabe for now at least
 

Fandangox

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Oh look I changed this
Let's take a detailed look at Kouse's content thus far, starting at the beginning of the game:
  • #47 - RVS vote
  • #68 - States he needs to check the thread more, votes Vult for sticking out (this was right after thread sentiment swung towards Vult pressure).
  • #76 - Says that he is really quiet because he's distracted by other media and it's his first time playing Mafia
  • #78 - Says that he's suspicious of Vult because he "blackmailed" Defen (even though Vult already described how the "blackmail" wasn't scummy), which doesn't defend the read well at all.
  • #80 - Kouse doubts Ran and likes Ryu, which was completely unexplained (note that Ran was the only one questioning him so he doesn't like pressure, and goes along with thread sentiment with Ryu).
  • #86 - Explains the Ran read as him wanting "other people to looks scummy, getting himself out of the spotlight of suspicious and push somebody else in it". This makes no sense as Ran hadn't been pushed at all up to that point, and had been putting himself in the spotlight by asking questions and stating opinions on current events of the time.
  • #89 - Kouse says that nobody else was suspicious of him so he isn't in the spotlight (which nobody said he was, so this makes me think he's deadly afraid of being in the spotlight), and then tries to tangle his words around to make it sound like he's saying something that he wasn't (to avoid backtracking).
He then dips out of thread, never to be seen again. I'd be a bit more forgiving if he decided to say "hey, I screwed up, this was a noobie mistake", but it looks a LOT like he's trying to stay out of the spotlight, gets trapped by his own paranioa about being in the spotlight, tries to backtrack and turn the situation back on Ran, and flees at the slightest hint of pressure. I dunno about you, but that kind of action looks pretty scummy to me.
Okay that's scummy, but Im not convinced that's some form of distancing between the both of them, its the problem with looking for connections when the town has no info. It's specially odd that you are looking for this connection when you are townreading Ran.

Hey look, it's Gheb and he even read the whole thread!

I first wanna make it clear that I take back whatever little I said about Ran and Kouse. Ran is super-awesome-obvious town in my book and ... I know it sounds crazy but ... I think he's right on just about everything so far?!? I also like Vult for the most part. They seem to be quite OK with each other too so I think the ideal scenario would be for us three to just ally up and steamroll this game asap. I think this one will go pretty fast.

Ryu, Doop and Spak all ... kinda exist but I don't really care about them a whole lot and I'm totally OK with putting a hold on reading them for an indefinite amount of time.

Kouse and Fanny are the scumteam and we should lynch them. Kouse has been exposed as scum pretty much in RVS and Fanny made some clumsy attempts to cover for him without aggroing Ran - who has both of them individually as scum reads. These are the hard stances I'm willing to commit to now until any of it turns out to be wrong. But to get this game going I think lynching Fanny is the right course of action.

Vote: FandangoX

:059:
So you think one player outed themselves as scum on the RVS phase and yet you go and make a push to another player on the flimsy assumption that they are a scumteam despite it being day 1 and having no confirms and it making much more sense to just go for the one guy you actually think is scum.

Congratulations Gheb, your logic makes no sense.
 

Fandangox

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Oh look I changed this
really do not like nabe going "everyone should post new things! there's too much meandering" it's "rah rah go town" as **** but doesn't actually do anything - contrast this to ran's questioning, which is very solid and has made me reconsider my scum read on him (i don't view his as town but he's improved to null) nabe also does nothing but vote spak for some reason and then bicker with ran???
This is textbook-definition Nabe bull****. I'm still mad at what he pulled last game.

Maven89 Maven89 prod Kouse?

#HBC | Red Ryu #HBC | Red Ryu what are your thoughts so far? You were active early on, but then disappeared.
 

Vult Redux

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fand reads town - this is gut for now, i'll reread and figure out why tomorrow[/QUOTE}Re-read Ran vs Fand

rather than making a super easy vote park on the slot


i'll give you the same pass i gave to RR.

Kouse has been exposed as scum pretty much in RVS
....

I think lynching Fanny is the right course of action.

Vote: FandangoX
but i thought Kouse was exposed as scum?????
 

Vult Redux

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ebwop

fand reads town - this is gut for now, i'll reread and figure out why tomorrow
Re-read Ran vs Fand

rather than making a super easy vote park on the slot


i'll give you the same pass i gave to RR.

Kouse has been exposed as scum pretty much in RVS
....

I think lynching Fanny is the right course of action.

Vote: FandangoX
but i thought Kouse was exposed as scum?????
 

~ Gheb ~

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I don't mind lynching Kouse first if that's what you guys wanna do. I just saw that Fanny had a fresh vote on him and wanted to keep the momentum going.

:059:
 

Spak

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Okay that's scummy, but Im not convinced that's some form of distancing between the both of them, its the problem with looking for connections when the town has no info. It's specially odd that you are looking for this connection when you are townreading Ran.
I was just listing a lot of possibilities. I said it was unlikely because I think Ran is town, but nobody aside from the mod and Mafia (unless there's traitor/indie) can know anything for sure at this point. I think it's useful to look for connections at any point in the game so that we can look back and more easily see who was trying to get closer to whom later when we have some flips. The whole questioning of Ran seems unwarrented, so that makes me think that either Kouse wanted to push someone he knew as he was getting oriented with the game (could do that as either town or scum), or decided to push Ran so that it looked like they weren't together (which would explain its suddenness and how it seemed to unnaturally disrupt the flow of the thread). Either way, Kouse needs to get back in here and respond to my case so I can actually get a better feel for the slot.
 

#HBC | Nabe

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This is textbook-definition Nabe bull****. I'm still mad at what he pulled last game.
I'm sure as nudge you're not talking about Battle Network, a game in 2014, a game I wanted to co-mod rather than play in, a game explicitly ruined by an early impulsive dayvig shot (not by me), a sea of replacements (not me), and a scum-powered half-the-votes lynch D2 that put scum in alpha territory D3 without the game really having played out at all, and certainly not as anyone could have expected it would. Also, worth noting, a game where I played the only day that mattered (D1) leaning into my PR (neighbourizer, my favourite) and then lost the ability N1 and had nothing to show as a result.

I'm having a hard time accepting that you think Battle Network is relevant by necessity to how I play in 2016, much less something to be "still mad at" me about two years later.

More to the point, I don't know why you'd bring this up and think that it's contribution. Which falls in line with the other parts of your post, asking for a prod on an inactive player, and asking Ryu a question people are already asking him.
 

ranmaru

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I don't mind lynching Kouse first if that's what you guys wanna do. I just saw that Fanny had a fresh vote on him and wanted to keep the momentum going.

:059:
What made you change your mind on Kouse?
 

#HBC | Nabe

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really do not like nabe going "everyone should post new things! there's too much meandering" it's "rah rah go town" as **** but doesn't actually do anythin
Let's be clear -- it's not about me wanting to look town (because that's not a valid reading at all, me saying it is genuinely empty even if people take me up on it like Spak and revitalize their content). It's about me wanting and subsequently inviting a thread of players who are easy to read and have new commentary, who aren't having a muddy wallow in the field about whether or not a now-gone player's answer to a question was a proper answer or dodged the question, when the question took place in the first 24 hours of the Day and was a question about nothing to begin with.

You're doing fine.
 

~ Gheb ~

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What made you change your mind on Kouse?
Nothing specifically. I just hadn't really read the thread back then and didn't consider the whole context of your exchange with Kouse as a result. Vult Redux Vult Redux was right when he said my comments on the issue were lazy.

:059:
 

Fandangox

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I'm sure as nudge you're not talking about Battle Network, a game in 2014, a game I wanted to co-mod rather than play in, a game explicitly ruined by an early impulsive dayvig shot (not by me), a sea of replacements (not me), and a scum-powered half-the-votes lynch D2 that put scum in alpha territory D3 without the game really having played out at all, and certainly not as anyone could have expected it would. Also, worth noting, a game where I played the only day that mattered (D1) leaning into my PR (neighbourizer, my favourite) and then lost the ability N1 and had nothing to show as a result.

I'm having a hard time accepting that you think Battle Network is relevant by necessity to how I play in 2016, much less something to be "still mad at" me about two years later.

More to the point, I don't know why you'd bring this up and think that it's contribution. Which falls in line with the other parts of your post, asking for a prod on an inactive player, and asking Ryu a question people are already asking him.
What no, I didn't play that game if I recall correctly, I don't know why you'd equate "last game" to something from 2014. I was actually thinking of Revival of Dgames mafia, but upon checking it you weren't a player on that one, I confused you with the Rake Effect. That said I do remember a game where you were mostly inactive, generally unhelpful to town and refused to cooperate, and you were a towney, but I guess its pointless since I didn't even remember the game I meant properly. I did bring it up Dooplisity to give some context that post alone is not inherently scummy since I remember you doing that sort of thing often.

That said I did ask you a question and you didn't answer it.
 

Fandangox

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Oh look I changed this
I was just listing a lot of possibilities. I said it was unlikely because I think Ran is town, but nobody aside from the mod and Mafia (unless there's traitor/indie) can know anything for sure at this point. I think it's useful to look for connections at any point in the game so that we can look back and more easily see who was trying to get closer to whom later when we have some flips. The whole questioning of Ran seems unwarrented, so that makes me think that either Kouse wanted to push someone he knew as he was getting oriented with the game (could do that as either town or scum), or decided to push Ran so that it looked like they weren't together (which would explain its suddenness and how it seemed to unnaturally disrupt the flow of the thread). Either way, Kouse needs to get back in here and respond to my case so I can actually get a better feel for the slot.
That's the thing though about searching for connections like this, they can mislead one's leads. Would your read on ran change if Kouse were to flip scum?
 

Fandangox

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Oh look I changed this
Nothing specifically. I just hadn't really read the thread back then and didn't consider the whole context of your exchange with Kouse as a result. Vult Redux Vult Redux was right when he said my comments on the issue were lazy.

:059:
Pretty sure no one was voting me at any point, so you just pretty much voted me over faulty logic when you claimed to have an actual suspect and joined a wagon that didn't exist.

Nothing specifically. I just hadn't really read the thread back then and didn't consider the whole context of your exchange with Kouse as a result. Vult Redux Vult Redux was right when he said my comments on the issue were lazy.

:059:
"nothing specifically" That doesn't sound confident as an argument against someone you claim outed themselves as Scum. What exactly makes you believe Kouse outed themselves as scum?
 

ranmaru

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Fandango why don't you respond to my reasoning. Also release why you asked me about Defens position on Kouse, it is anti-town. What are your reads?

#HBC | Red Ryu #HBC | Red Ryu You off work yet?
@Kouseband Where are you? Please post.
 

Vult Redux

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It's been 24 hours, Spak looks better afterwards and Vult didn't really do anything with the time.
the reason he looks better afterwards is at least partly because of my pressure and questions. :V you're welcome

gehb can you clarify your Kouse read? "exposed as scum" is pretty strong and i don't see it
 

Vult Redux

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Pretty sure no one was voting me at any point, so you just pretty much voted me over faulty logic when you claimed to have an actual suspect and joined a wagon that didn't exist.
Ran had voted you and I think he took my agreeing with him as part of the momentum.
 

Vult Redux

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vote: red ryu

tentative; more productive than my other vote gheb is giving me weird vibes which makes me not want to jump on the Fand wagon.
 

ranmaru

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I support a ryu wagon. Dude is taking way too long to get involved here. Still unsure how he mixed up Kouse voting me as someone else, and not feeling how he had a null on vult after all that questioning he did.
 

Fandangox

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Oh look I changed this
Fandango why don't you respond to my reasoning. Also release why you asked me about Defens position on Kouse, it is anti-town. What are your reads?

#HBC | Red Ryu #HBC | Red Ryu You off work yet?
@Kouseband Where are you? Please post.
What reasoning?

Also I was holding off the answer cause I wanted you to answer first, I just thought it was odd you didn't really get anything from his position. I agreed with Defen's take on his #93. I didn't really find anything suspicious about Kouse, and at the time I was suspicious of you because of your kouse push for the reasons I stated then, but I didn't know either player, so I defen about his Ryu stance since it conflicted with mine and I wanted to get a read.

Basically what I took from his points about your Kouse vote was that they were reasonable, with was part of the reason I started my push on you.

I'll elaborate on reads probably early tomorrow when I reread.

Maven89 Maven89 when is the deadline?
 

ranmaru

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Fair enough. I did not like the questioning wrt the ryu read but I did like your point on gheb stating how him being confident and his #165 not lining up. I just felt it could go either way with the defen kouse position.

I am not cool with your wagon anymore, and you are null to me now. I like Vult.

Unvote Vote: Red Ryu
 

Spak

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That's the thing though about searching for connections like this, they can mislead one's leads. Would your read on ran change if Kouse were to flip scum?
That wouldn't be enough to make him instantly change alignment (because Kouse may be scum and thought that would be a legit route to go down vs Ran, not knowing much about forum Mafia), but it would certainly make scum!Ran more plausible in my mind.
 

Spak

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Also, I'll probably be very honest and a bit drugged tomorrow; getting my wisdom teeth out in the morning. I'm off to bed and will try to answer questions when I wake up from my sedation and the grogginess has started to wear off.
 

Spak

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Hey Spak. Any updated reads today?
Not much. I think Vult is a town lean, and I want to completely re-read Fanny's slot before giving an assessment on it. I read Ryu's inactivity as null if he's been working the whole time (real life priorities over Mafia), but I expect something fairly substantial from him read-wise by the end of the phase if he wants to not be on my scum list D2. Kouse still looks scummy, you still look townie, Nabe, Gheb, and Doop all still look null, and I'm still confirmed town.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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RR why are you townreading this slot.

like, at first i thought he was genuinely concerned that I "blackmailed" him (i feel ridiculous just saying this) and maybe he mistook it as a scummy thing to do. so i figured i would try to explain it gently (reference: #70; i'm too nice for my own good). but then he ignored that post completely and comes out with this. like... it's just sort of making things up to justify a scumread even though my post should have alleviated his concerns completely. fon't buy it

i would revote him but he's getting replaced and i'm not sure it would be productive
Mixed up slots.
 
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