Mod Scene Future will Segregate the Games

[pupNapoleon]

With the announcement of the 3DS version being potentially on the verge of break through/in by the Smash modifiers, the 3DS would be open to many fan made changes that the Wii U version would not.

This could affect simple things, such as the edited versions being even more custom formatted to their deviced, but lso have a trickling effect, where those modified games change the way players approach the official main game, thus changing future rules in tournaments, and then, used by more, to be edited into the actual game.

Other thoughts occur.

How do you feel about this? After much lip from many consumers, would this better justify two versions of the game?

 

[Saikyoshi]

I'm not going to put much stock in it yet. Even Project M didn't take shape until the Wii was in its final death throes, because Nintendo is notorious for patching out anything that may let a hacker in.

Plus, the eighth-gen consoles are a lot more internet-dependent than the Wii was. Nintendo is tightening the reins; if we don't play how they want us to, they throttle us. And as someone who has spent over a thousand dollars on the eShop, that's not a risk I'm willing to take right now.

 

[EmblemCrossing]

People have already made progress on the Wii U version as well, and unlike the 3DS Version, where you need to be on a 9.5.22 or lower firmware (which you can't run the 1.07 smash update on 3DS without purchasing a Gateway to update, making it a moot point), the Wii U exploit is going to be able to be run on any system update. Mario Kart 8 has already been broken into, allowing for BFTSM modification, as well as track textures, using an on the fly file swap system done remotely.

Even given this, the Wii U is not an easy system to mod. Even if we manage to crack the file structure extensively, it will likely be a long time before we see anything truly unique. Codes need to be decrypted and rewritten, files must be fully explored, it's not something in the near future for sure.

Honestly at this point, with the fact that it's not even released yet, I wouldn't worry about it. Only dedicated techies will go in and try to mod the heavy stuff. The average Smash player might not even understand how to stream music files through the software, let alone modify character values.

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

I believe sooner or later, we might be able to hack the game easily with the cartridge VIA powersave cable, but I higly doubt that it will last long hacked like
Project M

 

[EmblemCrossing]

I believe sooner or later, we might be able to hack the game easily with the cartridge VIA powersave cable, but I higly doubt that it will last long hacked like
Project M

This is extremely unlikely. One cannot even edit a Powersaves save backup, because Datel has them so heavily encrypted it's impossible to open, let alone be able to write and modify the files of the actual cart itself. Powersaves is extremely limited, and can basically only apply basic modifications to the save file. Powersaves is unable to edit any sort of non ram file, while anything worth hacking is found in the rom.

(Not trying to pick on you, sorry if I come off as rude ^^; )

 

[Mo433]

Honestly, I don't see a mod for Smash Bros. at all. The little amount that people have been able to do most likely will be patched in a upcoming update. The Project M team got real lucky with making that game seeing as the Wii basically had no defense.

 

[PCHU]

I guess I don't see why people who don't play modded games are turned off by the idea of Smash 4 getting mods.
Back when I played Brawl, I enjoyed having alternates skins and textures because the base game had gotten a little monotonous outside of the actual gameplay, which I still enjoy and appreciate for its fluidity.
I didn't really get to experiment much with mods until the advent of PM which made it more accessible to me, but I've never really had a negative reaction to it.
It seems like people act as if all they'll face will be hackers and people cheating to win, but really, the chances of that happening are slim to none; in my experience, I've never faced anyone who used hacks, and the modding community has done nothing but make a game I enjoyed more interesting.
I see nothing wrong with this.

If only Mario Kart 8's physics system could be modded...it'd be nice to race with Wii bikes.

 

[Deleted member]

I think that Smash 4 needs hacks. The game isn't good enough as is. And if you guys won't hack it, then I will.

 

[Rakurai]

I'm also worried about the potential of online getting swamped with cheaters now that it's actually functional and there are valid reasons for people to want to cheat, such getting a better For Glory record.

The hack checks have already been shown to be flawed, considering that people are able to upload Miis with completely illegal equipment builds with no issues whatsoever. 3DS hacks are also laughably easy to get access to due to things like the browser exploit, so you can bet that if people find an easy way to cheat online without getting caught, they'll be all over it.

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

I think that Smash 4 needs hacks. The game isn't good enough as is. And if you guys won't hack it, then I will.

I want to hack it, but I feel unsafe with it being ruined. for the safe part, I would at least get a 2nd cartridge

This is extremely unlikely. One cannot even edit a Powersaves save backup, because Datel has them so heavily encrypted it's impossible to open, let alone be able to write and modify the files of the actual cart itself. Powersaves is extremely limited, and can basically only apply basic modifications to the save file. Powersaves is unable to edit any sort of non ram file, while anything worth hacking is found in the rom.

No, I mean the cable is the only way to connect the game to a computer so people may use a program (not powersave) that may able to change what they want.

 

[Mo433]

I think that Smash 4 needs hacks. The game isn't good enough as is. And if you guys won't hack it, then I will.

What will you change out of curiosity?

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

What will you change out of curiosity?

I am guessing music, stages, characters, and sfx...

 

[PCHU]

I'm also worried about the potential of online getting swamped with cheaters now that it's actually functional and there are valid reasons for people to want to cheat, such getting a better For Glory record.

The hack checks have already been shown to be flawed, considering that people are able to upload Miis with completely illegal equipment builds with no issues whatsoever. 3DS hacks are also laughably easy to get access to due to things like the browser exploit, so you can bet that if people find an easy way to cheat online without getting caught, they'll be all over it.

Just drop out against the people who are cheating.

Of course, I'm perfectly cool with SDing to leave a match because I honestly don't really care about my FG record since my wins more than outweigh the several matches I've "given" to people with awful connections/personalities.
At the end of the day, I know exactly what I can and can't punish, and nobody on FG is going to change that.
It's just wifi, man.

 

[EmblemCrossing]

I want to hack it, but I feel unsafe with it being ruined. for the safe part, I would at least get a 2nd cartridge

No, I mean the cable is the only way to connect the game to a computer so people may use a program (not powersave) that may able to change what they want.

Even with reverse engendering they can't overwrite a rom like that, I'm pretty sure. The only hacks that people have done with actual roms involve dumping the .cia file on a Gateway 3DS, and re packing it to put it back on the game. There have been games such as New Super Mario Bros 2 that have been hacked with custom levels, but that's really it.

Honestly I just don't see people investing in a Gateway for Smash hacking. The average Smash player isnt going to shell out that much money on a product, for something that might get them banned online.

Trust me, I actually want it to be as easy as plugging in the cart through the Powersaves dongle. But that just seems very unlikely.

 

[Deleted member]

What will you change out of curiosity?

The balancing/the engine mechanics.

I probably don't have the time for a 100% in-depth analysis, so I'll just try to make it as short and sweet as possible

1. Characters get categorized and have their attributes altered to represent this: The categories would be 1. Fast but Weak, 2. All Around (a balance of this one and the last one), and 3. Strong but Slow. This means no more Fast and Strong characters like Captain Falcon, and no Weak and Slow characters (which I don't think exists). Note that Captain Falcon and other Fast/Strong characters would still be in the game, they'd just have their damage/knockback values altered to make said characters weaker.
In my opinion, unlike from what I've heard people say my suggestions, I think that this would not only balance the game in a unique way, but still manage to keep the uniqueness amongst the characters (as, if a character's only gimmick was that they were broken, then they need a fix anyways). (Based off of how I balanced my Smash Bros. mod that I am working on)

2. For the game to be faster overall

3. For there to be more hitstun (melee-level)

4. For the Melee-Airdodge/Wavedashing to return, however, for the Brawl-Airdodge to initiate if you airdodge without inputting a direction, not only pleasing the Melee-fans, but being reasonable for those of whom liked Brawl.

5. For a faster falling speed

6. For rolls to have extra endlag added to them (like, 10+ frames endlag) (based off of my Smash Bros. mod)

7. For people to have more options when going online, like being able to select a stage of choice in For Fun or For Glory, and even being able to change the amount of stocks (in FG) on a scale from 1-3.

8. For the stages in the game to actually be balanced and tournament-legal, and for the Omega Stages to be more interesting (yet still balanced), so that it's not that same old boring stage with different textures. I like Final Destination more when it was the only one of it's kind, and even Sakurai himself admitted that Omega Stages cater to certain characters and playstyles.

9. For there to be a custom music option: Note that if I were to add this, I would make it so that while custom tracks could be placed on any stage, you could only have a max of 20 custom tracks to use at a time, and you could only add 35 of these custom tracks to stages, allowing for custom music to be a useful/viable option, yet not making it the main focus of the game.

10. For Mewtwo to get some buffs, and for him to have an alternate costume that looks like how Mewtwo did in the
50-Fact Extravaganza teaser (and yes, there are differences).

 

[Mo433]

I would love to see things

The balancing/the engine mechanics.

I probably don't have the time for a 100% in-depth analysis, so I'll just try to make it as short and sweet as possible

1. Characters get categorized and have their attributes altered to represent this: The categories would be 1. Fast but Weak, 2. All Around (a balance of this one and the last one), and 3. Strong but Slow. This means no more Fast and Strong characters like Captain Falcon, and no Weak and Slow characters (which I don't think exists). Note that Captain Falcon and other Fast/Strong characters would still be in the game, they'd just have their damage/knockback values altered to make said characters weaker.
In my opinion, unlike from what I've heard people say my suggestions, I think that this would not only balance the game in a unique way, but still manage to keep the uniqueness amongst the characters (as, if a character's only gimmick was that they were broken, then they need a fix anyways). (Based off of how I balanced my Smash Bros. mod that I am working on)

2. For the game to be faster overall

3. For there to be more hitstun (melee-level)

4. For the Melee-Airdodge/Wavedashing to return, however, for the Brawl-Airdodge to initiate if you airdodge without inputting a direction, not only pleasing the Melee-fans, but being reasonable for those of whom liked Brawl.

5. For a faster falling speed

6. For rolls to have extra endlag added to them (like, 10+ frames endlag) (based off of my Smash Bros. mod)

7. For people to have more options when going online, like being able to select a stage of choice in For Fun or For Glory, and even being able to change the amount of stocks (in FG) on a scale from 1-3.

8. For the stages in the game to actually be balanced and tournament-legal, and for the Omega Stages to be more interesting (yet still balanced), so that it's not that same old boring stage with different textures. I like Final Destination more when it was the only one of it's kind, and even Sakurai himself admitted that Omega Stages cater to certain characters and playstyles.

9. For there to be a custom music option: Note that if I were to add this, I would make it so that while custom tracks could be placed on any stage, you could only have a max of 20 custom tracks to use at a time, and you could only add 35 of these custom tracks to stages, allowing for custom music to be a useful/viable option, yet not making it the main focus of the game.

10. For Mewtwo to get some buffs, and for him to have an alternate costume that looks like how Mewtwo did in the
50-Fact Extravaganza teaser (and yes, there are differences).

You sound pretty familiar with modding. This is a really complex list. In your opinion, do you think that this something that can be done on Wii U as well?

 

[Substitution]

I'll be honest, I don't see a reason why we should make it Melee or PM. Because we already have those two games, and they've worked pretty well so far.
I mean. why bother re-inventing the wheel when said wheel has been doing just fine?

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

You sound pretty familiar with modding. This is a really complex list. In your opinion, do you think that this something that can be done on Wii U as well?

Most of us are familiar with modding. Mainly Project M, but sometimes, it's something else. As for the wii u part, hackers never found a way in unlike 3ds so it will be a long time before the wii u gets the ssb hacking spotlight

 

[EmblemCrossing]

Most of us are familiar with modding. Mainly Project M, but sometimes, it's something else. As for the wii u part, hackers never found a way in unlike 3ds so it will be a long time before the wii u gets the ssb hacking spotlight

They have found an exploit on Wii U. It's called Cafiine. Look up Cafiine/Mario Kart 8 and you'll see what I mean.

And they've stated they're porting it to the latest update.

 

[Thor]

The balancing/the engine mechanics.

I probably don't have the time for a 100% in-depth analysis, so I'll just try to make it as short and sweet as possible

1. Characters get categorized and have their attributes altered to represent this: The categories would be 1. Fast but Weak, 2. All Around (a balance of this one and the last one), and 3. Strong but Slow. This means no more Fast and Strong characters like Captain Falcon, and no Weak and Slow characters (which I don't think exists). Note that Captain Falcon and other Fast/Strong characters would still be in the game, they'd just have their damage/knockback values altered to make said characters weaker.
In my opinion, unlike from what I've heard people say my suggestions, I think that this would not only balance the game in a unique way, but still manage to keep the uniqueness amongst the characters (as, if a character's only gimmick was that they were broken, then they need a fix anyways). (Based off of how I balanced my Smash Bros. mod that I am working on)

You'll be disappointed to note that Falco in Melee is slow and strong [or slow and lightweight?] and he bodies Falcon [Fast and Strong]. There's a heck of a lot more to balancing the game than basic archetypes that you've labelled [onstage vs offstage presence and durability (recovery + weight + fall speed) are the two big ones that instantly come to mind].

Kirby is probably the closest to slow/weak.

2. For the game to be faster overall

What, you gonna increase run speeds? Do the fast become faster (*insert "Sanic" joke*)? Better approach options?

The gameplay is very tense for players of a high skill level and will often seem to fly by even for games that go long to viewers, because most are constantly thinking and trying to position perfectly, which is draining. It certainly feels fast when in a close match or difficult position (you still don't have much time to make a decision when in tight quarters).

I THINK you mean more combos, but that's not actually making the game faster, just more combo heavy (which tends to sped it up, but I've played 6-minute Melee Falco dittos because we're living to 170%+ most stocks due to excellent onstage combos that we don't end with strong dair while failing to edgeguard horrendously.). Less landing lag would make the game have quicker movement, but with shieldstun that's not super high, it wouldn't make the game super fast. More safety on block is what I'm guessing you'd be going for?

3. For there to be more hitstun (melee-level)

The hitstun in Smash 4 and Melee is equivalent (as far as I know - I know Brawl and Melee were equivalent, but Brawl had hitstun cancelling which meant hitstun could be cut short). Fall speeds in Smash 4 are lower, which means a character goes farther away on hit so the opponent must catch up to them, but they are in hitstun the same time. You might be looking to create more fast-fallers to cause more combos [or remove the ability to airdodge out of tumble, as that would force people to commit to an attack (like Samus nairing out of a combo in Melee)], but increasing hitstun would move it beyond Melee, to 64 levels [or beyond].

4. For the Melee-Airdodge/Wavedashing to return, however, for the Brawl-Airdodge to initiate if you airdodge without inputting a direction, not only pleasing the Melee-fans, but being reasonable for those of whom liked Brawl.

Investigate Brawl Minus Fox. And also check the landing lag [if you keep landing lag adjustments, wavedashing would be pretty bad with 21 frames of lag...if you somehow make one have more landing lag than the other, it would do the trick].

5. For a faster falling speed

I take your actual method of 2) and 3)?

6. For rolls to have extra endlag added to them (like, 10+ frames endlag) (based off of my Smash Bros. mod)

Removing invincibility is probably a better idea - rolls extremely punishable in Smash, except in Smash 4 now they don't suck [Brawl Lucario had decent rolls, and MK had a decent forward roll]. I don't think rolls really need nerfs at all (unless this is an attempt to make standard defensive options bad like in Melee) but removing maybe 4 frames of invulnerability and adding 4 frames of lag would probably be more in line with what people would appreciate [and also it would be worth not nerfing the rolls of some, such as Little Mac and Kirby, who have either bad mobility or (in Mac's case) obvious weaknesses that merit stronger grounded defensive options].

7. For people to have more options when going online, like being able to select a stage of choice in For Fun or For Glory, and even being able to change the amount of stocks (in FG) on a scale from 1-3.

8. For the stages in the game to actually be balanced and tournament-legal, and for the Omega Stages to be more interesting (yet still balanced), so that it's not that same old boring stage with different textures. I like Final Destination more when it was the only one of it's kind, and even Sakurai himself admitted that Omega Stages cater to certain characters and playstyles.

FD modes are nice, but Smashville or Battlefield or Lylat modes would be cool [maybe some of each in an alpha mode or something]. Or just a no hazards mode would make some better [a Halberd that didn't move would appeal to many].

9. For there to be a custom music option: Note that if I were to add this, I would make it so that while custom tracks could be placed on any stage, you could only have a max of 20 custom tracks to use at a time, and you could only add 35 of these custom tracks to stages, allowing for custom music to be a useful/viable option, yet not making it the main focus of the game.

10. For Mewtwo to get some buffs, and for him to have an alternate costume that looks like how Mewtwo did in the
50-Fact Extravaganza teaser (and yes, there are differences).

Mewtwo isn't currently too strong, so buffs would be nice... but others also need buffs [Ganondorf, Falco, etc.].

I'll withhold my opinion on the idea of modding Smash 4 as a whole and leave you with this: If you're interested in making approach options better, I'd suggest re-adding auto-cancelling projectiles, if possible.

 

[Mobes]

It might appear that I'm trying to shut down discussion, but trying to talk about the implications of modding when the community has only been able to change music files seems, like, having the conversation way too early. Modding isn't possible before it is, so I personally threat it as such.

 

[Deleted member]

I would love to see things

You sound pretty familiar with modding. This is a really complex list. In your opinion, do you think that this something that can be done on Wii U as well?

I actually do hack quite a bit. And I can imagine that further down the road, it will indeed be possible on the Wii U, and maybe even more...

Most of us are familiar with modding. Mainly Project M, but sometimes, it's something else. As for the wii u part, hackers never found a way in unlike 3ds so it will be a long time before the wii u gets the ssb hacking spotlight

I actually don't play that mod. The mod that I have been working on is called Smash Reborn.

You'll be disappointed to note that Falco in Melee is slow and strong [or slow and lightweight?] and he bodies Falcon [Fast and Strong]. There's a heck of a lot more to balancing the game than basic archetypes that you've labelled [onstage vs offstage presence and durability (recovery + weight + fall speed) are the two big ones that instantly come to mind].

While I understand this, that still doesn't fix that fact that it's unfair. Why is it that you can attack as fast as Pikachu, yet hit as hard as Ganon? Being fast/strong not only makes characters automatically have an advantage (hence how they're all seated at top-tier), but it also takes away from other characters who aren't fast/strong, but you run into the problem where making every character quick and powerful would be even worst than the "basic archetypes" that I described. I am not saying that the balance is based solely off of damage values and attack speed, I am saying that by changing these stats, it gives everybody a fair chance, and we won't run into any more Melee Foxes.

What, you gonna increase run speeds? Do the fast become faster (*insert "Sanic" joke*)? Better approach options?

The gameplay is very tense for players of a high skill level and will often seem to fly by even for games that go long to viewers, because most are constantly thinking and trying to position perfectly, which is draining. It certainly feels fast when in a close match or difficult position (you still don't have much time to make a decision when in tight quarters).

I THINK you mean more combos, but that's not actually making the game faster, just more combo heavy (which tends to sped it up, but I've played 6-minute Melee Falco dittos because we're living to 170%+ most stocks due to excellent onstage combos that we don't end with strong dair while failing to edgeguard horrendously.). Less landing lag would make the game have quicker movement, but with shieldstun that's not super high, it wouldn't make the game super fast. More safety on block is what I'm guessing you'd be going for?

No. None of that. When I mean faster, I mean speed up the attacks/ground speeds/air speeds.

The hitstun in Smash 4 and Melee is equivalent (as far as I know - I know Brawl and Melee were equivalent, but Brawl had hitstun cancelling which meant hitstun could be cut short). Fall speeds in Smash 4 are lower, which means a character goes farther away on hit so the opponent must catch up to them, but they are in hitstun the same time. You might be looking to create more fast-fallers to cause more combos [or remove the ability to airdodge out of tumble, as that would force people to commit to an attack (like Samus nairing out of a combo in Melee)], but increasing hitstun would move it beyond Melee, to 64 levels [or beyond].

I don't think that the hitstun is that high. Also, this one goes hand-in-hand with the whole "speed up the game" bit, as combined, would probably bring it exactly to melee-levels (not that I am trying to make Melee 2.0, as that game had a plethora of problems that I absolutely abhorred, but it was still an overall good game).

Investigate Brawl Minus Fox. And also check the landing lag [if you keep landing lag adjustments, wavedashing would be pretty bad with 21 frames of lag...if you somehow make one have more landing lag than the other, it would do the trick].

That's why I said "the return of wavedashing", I was basically confirming that the lag would be gone for Melee Airdodges

Removing invincibility is probably a better idea - rolls extremely punishable in Smash, except in Smash 4 now they don't suck [Brawl Lucario had decent rolls, and MK had a decent forward roll]. I don't think rolls really need nerfs at all (unless this is an attempt to make standard defensive options bad like in Melee) but removing maybe 4 frames of invulnerability and adding 4 frames of lag would probably be more in line with what people would appreciate [and also it would be worth not nerfing the rolls of some, such as Little Mac and Kirby, who have either bad mobility or (in Mac's case) obvious weaknesses that merit stronger grounded defensive options].

I actually am trying to nerf the defensive play. When I boot of a game of this franchise I want to play Smash Bros, not Cards.

FD modes are nice, but Smashville or Battlefield or Lylat modes would be cool [maybe some of each in an alpha mode or something]. Or just a no hazards mode would make some better [a Halberd that didn't move would appeal to many].

That's what the "tournament legal" part was (in regards to your comment about hazardless stages)

Mewtwo isn't currently too strong, so buffs would be nice... but others also need buffs [Ganondorf, Falco, etc.].

Ganondorf is within an inch of being Fast/Strong (contrary to belief). Play your cards right, and you'll see his worth. As for Falco, he was probably meant to be an offensive character, as he can "combo" people with a Up-throw -> X amount of jumps (or short hop) -> Aerial Attack.

I'll withhold my opinion on the idea of modding Smash 4 as a whole and leave you with this: If you're interested in making approach options better, I'd suggest re-adding auto-cancelling projectiles, if possible.

That would be a good idea, because, as is, Fox/Falco's blasters are useless.

 

[L9999]

I actually do hack quite a bit. And I can imagine that further down the road, it will indeed be possible on the Wii U, and maybe even more...


I actually don't play that mod. The mod that I have been working on is called Smash Reborn.

While I understand this, that still doesn't fix that fact that it's unfair. Why is it that you can attack as fast as Pikachu, yet hit as hard as Ganon? Being fast/strong not only makes characters automatically have an advantage (hence how they're all seated at top-tier), but it also takes away from other character who aren't fast/strong, but you run into the problem where making every character quick and powerful would be even worst than the "basic archetypes" that I described. I am not saying that the balance is based solely off of damage values and attack speed, I am saying that by changing these stats, it gives everybody a fair chance, and we won't run into any more Melee Foxes.

No. None of that. When I mean faster, I mean speed up the attacks/ground speeds/air speeds.



I don't think that the hitstun is that high. Also, this one goes hand-in-hand with the whole "speed up the game" bit, as combined, would probably bring it exactly to melee-levels (not that I am trying to make Melee 2.0, as that game had a plethora of problems that I absolutely abhorred, but it was still an overall good game).



That's why I said "the return of wavedashing", I was basically confirming that the lag would be gone for Melee Airdodges


I actually am trying to nerf the defensive play. When I boot of a game of this franchise I want to play Smash Bros, not Cards.



That's what the "tournament legal" part was (in regards to your comment about hazardless stages)



Ganondorf is within an inch of being Fast/Strong (contrary to belief). Play your cards right, and you'll see his worth. As for Falco, he was probably meant to be an offensive character, as he can "combo" people with a Up-throw -> X amount of jumps (or short hop) -> Aerial Attack.

That would be a good idea, because, as is, Fox/Falco's blasters are useless.

Wait, you are making an actual mod or is still in the imagination?

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, you are making an actual mod or is still in the imagination?

It's an actual mod. I have been working on it for quite the time now. I am a pro hacker, after all.

 

[Mizzy Moe]

It's an actual mod. I have been working on it for quite the time now. I am a pro hacker, after all.

for smash 4?

and would it only be on a 3ds, only on wii u, or hopefully both?

also would adding characters be a thing? i barely played brawl i didnt reaally like it as a base game so i never played project m but watchin some tournament play it made me wanna try and play as squirtle would adding him and ivysaur and hell even snake and other be a thing?

 

[Reila]

I think that Smash 4 needs hacks. The game isn't good enough as is. And if you guys won't hack it, then I will.

Roster aside, the game is really great, both versions. So no, it doesn't need to be hacked. None of the Smash games needed to be hacked.

 

[WinterShorts]

Roster aside, the game is really great, both versions. So no, it doesn't need to be hacked. None of the Smash games needed to be hacked.

Even Brawl?

 

[Deleted member]

for smash 4?

and would it only be on a 3ds, only on wii u, or hopefully both?

also would adding characters be a thing? i barely played brawl i didnt reaally like it as a base game so i never played project m but watchin some tournament play it made me wanna try and play as squirtle would adding him and ivysaur and hell even snake and other be a thing?

I was talking about a brawl hack. I am still trying to find a way to exploit the Wii U so as to get unrestricted access to everything in it.

 

[Curious Villager]

I wonder if Smash 3DS (or Wii U) becomes moddable, would it be possible to implement additional characters or stages much in the same way as DLC like Mewtwo at some point? Or is that out of the question?

 

[Deleted member]

I wonder if Smash 3DS (or Wii U) becomes moddable, would it be possible to implement additional characters or stages much in the same way as DLC like Mewtwo at some point? Or is that out of the question?

I could definitely see it being possible... Perhaps, by making a Hacked internet connection, then, through "some steps", tip the scales so as to allow the use of custom download codes on the server, so that if you put in said code, the exploit can activate and give you an additional fighter. (although, I'd have to find a way to make a one-for-all download code, which shouldn't be hard)

 

[Tino]

I didn't pay $100 just to have both versions of Sm4sh hacked. The games are amazing the way it is; I don't see any reason why they need to be hacked.

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

I didn't pay $100 just to have both versions of Sm4sh hacked. The games are amazing the way it is; I don't see any reason why they need to be hacked.

Stages, some music, gameplay, etc. trust me, I would hack some stages on 3ds and some music on 3ds. But it's optional, I wouldn't want to hack it unless (Like I said before) have a spare.

 

[Deleted member]

I didn't pay $100 just to have both versions of Sm4sh hacked. The games are amazing the way it is; I don't see any reason why they need to be hacked.

I didn't pay $100 just to not have both version hacked. The games aren't amazing quote-"the way it is"; I see all of the reasons why they need to be hacked.

Smash 4 Failed (once again) to be a good sequel to Melee. And even going beyond Melee, it still, once more, failed to even be a good individual game, yet alone a good game as part of the Smash Bros. Franchise.

In all honesty, I personally like Brawl better than this game, because at least you could fix Nintendo's mess in that iteration.

Sometimes, You just have to admit that the developers aren't always right. Smash 4's fate depends on when we can hack it, and to what extent we can hack it to.

 

[Mo433]

I would want to see some hacks for this game, but in all honesty I don't see a mod being available to the vast majority. By the time some one does make s breakthrough that becomes popular, Nintendo would simply just update the game. I

Also, in terms of gameplay, I think most people who aren't strict Melee fans will be fine with the gameplay/mechanics of Smash 4. Most people play Smash 4 simply BECAUSE it's not like Melee. Honestly if all Smash Bros. games played like Melee the series would just get stale. Part of loving the Smash series's is being able to play each game and get a different experience out of them. Smash 4's scene will be fine without hacks, seeing as the game has been growing dramatically in the competitive scene.

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

Smash 4 Failed (once again) to be a good sequel to Melee. And even going beyond Melee, it still, once more, failed to even be a good individual game, yet alone a good game as part of the Smash Bros. Franchise.

wait wait wait.... WHAT?!?! I find Smash 4 a good sequel to melee. (except the fact for trophy rush, smash run, and target blast) but Look closely, This game is just a bit slower than melee, but faster than brawl. It gives more choices by stages, music, and characters, even online play is good. Don't get me wrong, but I LOVE melee, it was my very first smash bros game ever. But I find 3ds a good sequel. I think hacks are a nice option, but it's NOT NEEDED. However, like you said, the game isn't perfect, NOT RUINED. Just things that need to be added is Break the targets (not like brawl since that ruined break the targets for me), board the platforms, the trophy minigame in melee, race to the finish, the trophy machine in melee, events, a melee classic mode, a subspace-like mode, some old stages, songs, and characters... then we're all good. Also one problem I have with smash 3ds is All-star mode. Why have it when you first start the game instead of collecting all characters? I don't know, but I don't like it.

 

[Deleted member]

I would want to see some hacks for this game, but in all honesty I don't see a mod being available to the vast majority. By the time some one does make s breakthrough that becomes popular, Nintendo would simply just update the game. I

Also, in terms of gameplay, I think most people who aren't strict Melee fans will be fine with the gameplay/mechanics of Smash 4. Most people play Smash 4 simply BECAUSE it's not like Melee. Honestly if all Smash Bros. games played like Melee the series would just get stale. Part of loving the Smash series's is being able to play each game and get a different experience out of them. Smash 4's scene will be fine without hacks, seeing as the game has been growing dramatically in the competitive scene.

Well, here's what I have to say about that.

I don't think that the hitstun is that high. Also, this one goes hand-in-hand with the whole "speed up the game" bit, as combined, would probably bring it exactly to melee-levels (not that I am trying to make Melee 2.0, as that game had a plethora of problems that I absolutely abhorred, but it was still an overall good game).

This was a reply that I made to somebody on this page. I am not trying to make a Melee 2.0, however, I still think that a lot of the melee mechanics need to be ported over, along with some of the new concepts that I introduced (such as the removal of characters being fast/strong, and instead having their stats altered to fit into the categories Fast/Weak, Strong/Slow, and All Around), like, for example, the Melee Airdodge/Wavedashing needs to return, with the option for a Brawl airdodge if you do the action without making an immediate directional input, at the cost of Brairdodges, rolls, and spotdodges to have 18+ frames of endlag, while not forgetting to speed up the characters, and increase the hitstun.

Smash 4 is essentially the equivalent of a Brawl Hack, a brawl hack that adds hitstun at the cost of depth, while keeping the balance (or lack thereof) the same.

Smash 4 needs hacks.

wait wait wait.... WHAT?!?! I find Smash 4 a good sequel to melee. (except the fact for trophy rush, smash run, and target blast) but Look closely, This game is just a bit slower than melee, but faster than brawl. It gives more choices by stages, music, and characters, even online play is good. Don't get me wrong, but I LOVE melee, it was my very first smash bros game ever. But I find 3ds a good sequel. I think hacks are a nice option, but it's NOT NEEDED. However, like you said, the game isn't perfect, NOT RUINED. Just things that need to be added is Break the targets (not like brawl since that ruined break the targets for me), board the platforms, the trophy minigame in melee, race to the finish, the trophy machine in melee, events, a melee classic mode, a subspace-like mode, some old stages, songs, and characters... then we're all good. Also one problem I have with smash 3ds is All-star mode. Why have it when you first start the game instead of collecting all characters? I don't know, but I don't like it.

I think that what you mean to say is "This game is just a bit faster than Brawl, but slower than Melee."
There's a huge difference between the two.

 

[L9999]

Can somebody explain to me what is the whole deal of hacking wavedashing into the game?

 

[kinbobbobkin]

No no no, don't think that's a really good idea. Like Tino said, the Smash games are good as they are seperately. If the games act like their processor then it wouldn't be unique as it is.

 

[Caryslan]

The balancing/the engine mechanics.

I probably don't have the time for a 100% in-depth analysis, so I'll just try to make it as short and sweet as possible

1. Characters get categorized and have their attributes altered to represent this: The categories would be 1. Fast but Weak, 2. All Around (a balance of this one and the last one), and 3. Strong but Slow. This means no more Fast and Strong characters like Captain Falcon, and no Weak and Slow characters (which I don't think exists). Note that Captain Falcon and other Fast/Strong characters would still be in the game, they'd just have their damage/knockback values altered to make said characters weaker.
In my opinion, unlike from what I've heard people say my suggestions, I think that this would not only balance the game in a unique way, but still manage to keep the uniqueness amongst the characters (as, if a character's only gimmick was that they were broken, then they need a fix anyways). (Based off of how I balanced my Smash Bros. mod that I am working on)

2. For the game to be faster overall

3. For there to be more hitstun (melee-level)

4. For the Melee-Airdodge/Wavedashing to return, however, for the Brawl-Airdodge to initiate if you airdodge without inputting a direction, not only pleasing the Melee-fans, but being reasonable for those of whom liked Brawl.

5. For a faster falling speed

6. For rolls to have extra endlag added to them (like, 10+ frames endlag) (based off of my Smash Bros. mod)

7. For people to have more options when going online, like being able to select a stage of choice in For Fun or For Glory, and even being able to change the amount of stocks (in FG) on a scale from 1-3.

8. For the stages in the game to actually be balanced and tournament-legal, and for the Omega Stages to be more interesting (yet still balanced), so that it's not that same old boring stage with different textures. I like Final Destination more when it was the only one of it's kind, and even Sakurai himself admitted that Omega Stages cater to certain characters and playstyles.

9. For there to be a custom music option: Note that if I were to add this, I would make it so that while custom tracks could be placed on any stage, you could only have a max of 20 custom tracks to use at a time, and you could only add 35 of these custom tracks to stages, allowing for custom music to be a useful/viable option, yet not making it the main focus of the game.

10. For Mewtwo to get some buffs, and for him to have an alternate costume that looks like how Mewtwo did in the
50-Fact Extravaganza teaser (and yes, there are differences).

I like most of these ideas, although I'm not sure about the Captain Falcon thing. I'm not even a Captain Falcon player, but his gimmick across four games has been a fast on his feet heavyweight that has a great combo game, and flashy moves that have tons of KO power. Unless I'm wrong, that speed and power comes at the expense of him being easy combo bait himself, an okay recovery that can be gimped, and the fact that most of his KO moves leave him wide open to counterattacks.

I think making him a Fast but weak character kinda wrecks that, esepcially since we have enough "fast on their feet but weak" characters in the roster. How does it even balance him? He's a good character in 64, Melee, and Smash 4, but he's not the best character in those games, and in Brawl, he was a garbage tier character despite his speed and strength.

What about Little Mac? He is technically a fast and strong character on the ground, with his gimmick being his ground game(which is one of the best in Smash 4) comes at the expense of his terrible air game.

What about other heavyweights like Bowser and Donkey Kong that are pretty fast for their weight class. Do they get slowed down in the name of balance?

I'm not sayng your idea of balance is a bad idea. I'm just not sure fitting everybody into one size fits all categories is the best way to go about it.

 

[PCHU]

I would want to see some hacks for this game, but in all honesty I don't see a mod being available to the vast majority. By the time some one does make s breakthrough that becomes popular, Nintendo would simply just update the game. I

Also, in terms of gameplay, I think most people who aren't strict Melee fans will be fine with the gameplay/mechanics of Smash 4. Most people play Smash 4 simply BECAUSE it's not like Melee. Honestly if all Smash Bros. games played like Melee the series would just get stale. Part of loving the Smash series's is being able to play each game and get a different experience out of them. Smash 4's scene will be fine without hacks, seeing as the game has been growing dramatically in the competitive scene.

Why do people think that anyone who doesn't like this game is a strict Melee fan?
I love Brawl, too, and I recognize where both of those games fall short, but the problem I have with Smash 4 is waiting so long to get back into the fray due to the increased knockback.
It feels like they tried to make the game "larger than life" but forgot that a lot of space is still empty space.
Combined with the (selectively) more precise hitboxes, I just don't find it to be all that enjoyable.

I'd be more okay with the mechanics if they weren't so scared to hand out buffs to characters and put hitboxes where there should be hitboxes.