Mewtwo Patch (Version 1.0.6[7]) Thread [Updated: May 1st]

[LordWilliam1234]

On Mega Man's Leaf Shield, the leaves start moving forward on frame 22 now. Previously they moved forward on frame 30.

Also, some other minor things that got changed for Diddy, in addition to what was already mentioned:

F-air's block-freeze and blockstun were both reduced by 1 frame (strong hit).

D-air's block-freeze and blockstun were both reduced by 2 frames.

U-air's block-freeze and blockstun were both reduced by 1 frame.

F-smash's endlag was increased by 3 frames.

 

[The_Cardinal]

Robin's bthrow kb adjusted/nerfed T_T haha

At the very edge, with minimal rage (25-75%) it would kill at 80-90% even with good DI.

Now, close to the edge it won't kill Zelda even at 130% with 80% rage.

Robin's bthrow was never that good.

 

[Thinkaman]

Robin's bthrow kb adjusted/nerfed T_T haha

At the very edge, with minimal rage (25-75%) it would kill at 80-90% even with good DI.

Now, close to the edge it won't kill Zelda even at 130% with 80% rage.

I'm actually seeing a little change, but it's very small and could be an artifact of Training mode AI control. Both are killing Mario from the edge of 3DS FD at around 151%.

Strangely enough, the ending lag of Yoshi's ledge attack has been noticeably decreased.

Sure enough. Confirmed.

 

[RadioactiveMoth]

I'm testing out Peach's percents, and I can't get her down smash to do 15% (the max percent listed in her 1.0.4 frame data), I can only get it to 14%. I don't use Peach much, so I don't know if I'm using her right. Can anyone test this?

 

[Ffamran]

Falco throws all involve projectiles. The raw data is misleading.

What's wrong is the "throwing" part of his D-throw. Except for F-throw which doesn't involve his Blaster and U-throw, all of them do a consistent 3% from the laser. The data dump had the throwing part of D-throw and U-throw's Blaster laser does 4% instead of the listed 3% - that's the only throw that doesn't do the regular 3% from his Blaster.

Edit: And then there's Peach's Side Smash not really being listed.

 

[Charu]

So Yoshi did get a small buff? That's cool I suppose, heh. Now if they could just revert back to how he was on the initial release on the 3DS... (lol, as if)

 

[Zeth444]

If this data is right http://smashboards.com/threads/comp...-every-character-now-with-ko-percents.383550/
Them I found one change:
(Game&Watch): Dsmash KO percentage changed from 117% to 106%;
Doesnt even need to Be at the tip of the hammer. But also cant Be to close to G&W

Now kills at 107% midscreen with no Rage actually.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

That Robin b-throw change sounds exaggerated. This isn't lab-tested, but in the previous patch I generally found I could kill with it around 120 to 150% in actual matches. If you were getting 90% kills with it, your opponents had terrible DI.

I'd like to know what's really going on here, without completely out-of-proportion claims like "kills at 90% with 25% rage".

 

[JohnnyB]

Pac man's up b trampoline can no longer be pocketed by villager.

It's technically a pac man change but it should probably go under villager changes instead.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Luigi's Fireball damage still does 6% at close range. What they did is add a 5% sourspot when the move travels a little distance. This is to bring the move inline with Mario's fireball, which also has reduced knockback and damage when it travels set distances.

 

[Link24a]

ness's supposed back throw nerf is a myth. i just played like 25 or so matches with ness and its no different

 

[-LzR-]

What's that part about Charizard Rock smash damage being buffed to 29%?
It has been able to do well past 30% since the beginning.

 

[RadioactiveMoth]

What's that part about Charizard Rock smash damage being buffed to 29%?
It has been able to do well past 30% since the beginning.

...no? If you look at his frame data it says it can only go up to 23%, at least in 1.0.4

 

[exnecross]

Luigi's Fireball damage still does 6% at close range. What they did is add a 5% sourspot when the move travels a little distance. This is to bring the move inline with Mario's fireball, which also has reduced knockback and damage when it travels set distances.

Yeah, the OP is not worded well.

Sheik:
Bair 11%/10% -> 8%/7%
should be Bair 11%/10% -> 8%/7% + KB reduction

Luigi:
Fireball Damage 6% -> 5%
should be Fireball Damage 6% -> 5% at distance

Other things too.

 

[ffdgh]

I'm testing out Peach's percents, and I can't get her down smash to do 15% (the max percent listed in her 1.0.4 frame data), I can only get it to 14%. I don't use Peach much, so I don't know if I'm using her right. Can anyone test this?

Only way to apparently get the full 15 % is to have the cpu dummy use a metal box. Heck I though 14 was the max.

 

[Thinkaman]

Reddit is reporting Villager f-throw buff from 7%->9%. It always did 9%.

Some things I noticed about greninja:

Greninja's Substitute now has a longer window for counter attack, The actual attack may come out faster, and there is more lag after you use the move and miss. (Pretty sure on this one)

The rest might be wrong:

It seems Bair's range and KB are reduced slightly.

Dair doesn't make your character model stretch as much now (or I may just be hallucinating)

Less landing lag on his Nair.

Uair seems to do more KB now.

Greninja has none of these changes.

 

[jespoke]

I've confirmed that Bowser taking someone over the edge with flying slam on Smashville goes to SD where it previously killed Bowser first and the opponent popped out and could recover.

Only stage I've found so far where this has changed.

Yeah, "WTF, Sakurai?!" pops to might right about now...

This has the implication that under current rules, Bowser can now end the match in his favor as soon as he has the advantage on last stock through Bowsercide on the stage the majority of competitive matches are played on

Edit: This is factoring in the change that gives him more control over side-b to actually make the Bowsercide on small advantages happen

 

[Thinkaman]

I tested all of these, and can't observe any of the stated changes. I am positive about the nair landing lag and substitute endlag in particular.

 

[RadioactiveMoth]

Only way to apparently get the full 15 % is to have the cpu dummy use a metal box. Heck I though 14 was the max.

Oh, well, that clears that up. Thanks!

In other news, Peach has had no changed to her damage outputs.

 

[Player-1]

diddy's monkey flip kick's sweetspot still does 14%, idk why OP has it listed otherwise

 

[Shaya]

Yeah, the OP is not worded well.

Sheik:
Bair 11%/10% -> 8%/7%
should be Bair 11%/10% -> 8%/7% + KB reduction

Luigi:
Fireball Damage 6% -> 5%
should be Fireball Damage 6% -> 5% at distance

Other things too.

Fixed Luigi, for the time being I'll avoid KB reduction notes when a move has had it's damage nerfed. This does impact it's knockback a lot as it is.
You know what this patch really shows me? that I'm really happy I abused diddy kong in solo player modes before this patch. Diddy's up air would kill almost every character in every mode with like two of these things from zero. Back to Ganon/Falcon I guess

However, with the up air being culled like this, I feel as if he could probably start comboing into his heavy jetpack at kill percent... which could actually result in him being buffed to be quite honest...

 

[Themeatgrinder]

Zelda's Phantom seems to be out 3 seconds longer

 

[exnecross]

Fixed Luigi, for the time being I'll avoid KB reduction notes when a move has had it's damage nerfed. This does impact it's knockback a lot as it is.
You know what this patch really shows me? that I'm really happy I abused diddy kong in solo player modes before this patch. Diddy's up air would kill almost every character in every mode with like two of these things from zero. Back to Ganon/Falcon I guess

However, with the up air being culled like this, I feel as if he could probably start comboing into his heavy jetpack at kill percent... which could actually result in him being buffed to be quite honest...

Well the KB reduction to Sheik's bair is actually insane, the damage nerf it got pales in comparison. It went from a reliable kill move to not killing until over 200%. That's the only reason I mentioned it.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Is it just me, or does Sheik's DSmash only do 2 hits where it previously did 3 at close range? Her legs seem to extend through the opponent without hitting them on the initial kick, then do two hits on the spin. Also, forward kick hits the foe into the backward kick which then launches them forwards, while the backward kick hits the foe into the forward kick which then launches them backwards. It's quite noticeable. Result is an increase in startup time (though the whole animation may be slightly faster to compensate, not sure) and a significant decrease in damage output. I think I see the whitish flashing intangibility immediately on startup, but I'm not sure and haven't tested in slow-motion to confirm any of this.

 

[Shaya]

diddy's monkey flip kick's sweetspot still does 14%, idk why OP has it listed otherwise

So just the grab got changed? I've read many things mentioning damage changes on side-b that were really ambiguous.

 

[Teshie U]

Fixed Luigi, for the time being I'll avoid KB reduction notes when a move has had it's damage nerfed. This does impact it's knockback a lot as it is.
You know what this patch really shows me? that I'm really happy I abused diddy kong in solo player modes before this patch. Diddy's up air would kill almost every character in every mode with like two of these things from zero. Back to Ganon/Falcon I guess

However, with the up air being culled like this, I feel as if he could probably start comboing into his heavy jetpack at kill percent... which could actually result in him being buffed to be quite honest...

The challenge to use Diddy in rival smash is probably going to be a bit tougher. Uair kills miis are 0%.

 

[Doval]

Well the KB reduction to Sheik's bair is actually insane, the damage nerf it got pales in comparison. It went from a reliable kill move to not killing until over 200%. That's the only reason I mentioned it.

11 -> 8 is around a 23% decrease in knockback growth (and also decreases the base knockback indirectly). Since characters decelerate after getting hit, that can translate into much more than a 23% decrease in distance. It's possible they nerfed the knockback directly as well but I wouldn't be surprised if it was just the damage either.

 

[jespoke]

Zelda's Phantom seems to be out 3 seconds longer

Out as in unavailable? Someone else mentioned that too, someone more to verify would be good here (Would get in on the action myself if it wasn't past midnight here)

 

[RadioactiveMoth]

Noticed something with Ness. The base/first frames of PK Thunder now does 9% instead of 8%.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

This has the implication that under current rules, Bowser can now end the match in his favor as soon as he has the advantage on last stock through Bowsercide on the stage the majority of competitive matches are played on

Edit: This is factoring in the change that gives him more control over side-b to actually make the Bowsercide on small advantages happen

I'll take anything that gives people a reason to play on stages other than Smashville.

On a different note, it seems that a lot of suspected-then-disconfirmed changes were first suspected due to misinformation about the pre-patch value. (Like Robin's bthrow always doing 11% instead of getting nerfed from 12%.) Interesting.

 

[Player-1]

So just the grab got changed? I've read many things mentioning damage changes on side-b that were really ambiguous.

I think so. Diddy's side-b actually has 2 different hitboxes when you attack, before one did 5% and the other did 7% so the 2nd one probably got nerfed down to 5%

 

[S_B]

This has the implication that under current rules, Bowser can now end the match in his favor as soon as he has the advantage on last stock through Bowsercide on the stage the majority of competitive matches are played on

Edit: This is factoring in the change that gives him more control over side-b to actually make the Bowsercide on small advantages happen

Actually, I was full of crap about the change: apparently it ALWAYS SDed on Smashville.

But I'm NOT full of crap about the additional control.

Ironically, I've been Bowserciding the piss out of people in FG all day!

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Unfortunately, until we get Dantarion's newest data dump, we can't accurately describe changes in knockback if they do exist. But if a move has different damage, that's a clear indicator that knockback has been changed. We just can't say how else it's changed, whether it's base, weight, growth, or angle.

Also, thank you @ Shaya for adding our discovery on Bowser's control with Flying Slam. Now I can get to work updating my thread for the 1.06 data.

From the look of things, Bowser doesn't have anything else about him changed. But that buff is pretty huge news to compensate for them not fixing the Flying Slam glitch in general. Guess the designers like the idea of Bowser dying first, and don't yet realize the victim can attempt recovery. They also probably didn't realize this bug is stage dependent, which is the real face-palm

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Oh by the way, Sheik's BAir has a sweetspot at the tip of her foot that hits for 8% with much better knockback than the 7% hit. Was able to KO a level 3 CPU Robin over the left blast line at 167% in Training, from just beyond the left edge of the platform on FD.

Edit: Nvm, was already known. Can confirm though that DSmash now does only 2 hits for ~9% total in Training. It lost its first hit and as a result has much greater startup time. No intangibility as I'd previously thought.

 

[Firefoxx]

I'm 99% sure that Falcon's downward tilted f-smash KO's 14-15% later, still does 20%. Would appreciate it if someone could confirm this

Edit: more specifically it used to KO at 86% and now KOs at 101%

 

[Tinkerer]

Sonic's spring can't be pocketed any more either.

 

[Thinkaman]

Mewtwo

jab frame 6
dash attack ~frame 10?
f-tilt frame 10?
d-tilt frame 6
u-tilt ???

f-smash frame 18
u-smash frame 9?
d-smash ~frame 20?

nair frame 7
fair frame 7

grab frame 8

 

[Blobface]

I'll take anything that gives people a reason to play on stages other than Smashville.

I wouldn't mind Smashville if it's music wasn't so bloody boring. Town and City even has much better music.

I can also reasonably confirm Ganon's F-smash has ever so slightly less endlag. If you pause this vine, you can clearly see the effects are identical throughout the animation even though the Ganon on the right goes into shield faster.

Also @ Thinkaman , can you test Ganon's hitlag on his Forward, Back, and Up throws? Pre-patch all of these were one slow laggy hit followed by an actual throw. Now it seems the first hit has almost no hitlag.

 

[Shaya]

@ Thinkaman , please end my placebo from last night.
Marth Fair is 37 frames and has a frame 36 AC. His short hop is 41 frames.

I -think- he can fair later on his rise and auto cancel. Been buffering actions on landing without anything starting up still while in the air.
If this is true, I would guess it's now ACing at the same time as bair, which is frame 32

 

[RadioactiveMoth]

So, does anyone know anything about Rock Smash and Charizard? I found that it did 20%, the frame data shows it should have only done a total of 23% in the last version, and it was added, but then removed, from the OP. It's all very confusing.