Mewtwo complaint thread

[Psyruby]

The funny thing is Charizard is 200lbs roughly in the pokemon games - Mewtwo is close to 270lb but is lighter than Charizard.


Well, I can give you they might be fixed in the long run but right now it's extremely frustrating and misleading. This a problem at this moment so it's fair game to complain about it. I think with better hitboxes we'll see Mewtwo being able to be more aggressive but with weird moves defense really feels like the only option for him. Never mained mewtwo in Melee but wasn't he more aggressive in Melee?

Melee =/= Smash 4. In Melee nearly every character could be played aggressively. In Brawl, no character could be played aggressively. In Smash 4, 1/5th the cast can be played aggressively... SOMETIMES. Even if Mewtwo's hitboxes were cleaned up, this wouldn't stop him from being defensive. The ONLY way Mewtwo will turn into an aggressive character is if all his hitboxes were sped up to Sheik or ZSS levels. If you look at most the aggressive characters in Smash 4(Sheik, ZSS, Yoshi, Diddy, Mario, Luigi, Pikachu, Fox) they have extremely fast hitboxes that combo into one another. In fact, only Captain Falcon and Bowser have slower hitboxes while still being aggressive, and this is due to the fact that Captain Falcon just overwhelms you with stage and off stage presence, and Bowser just out-tanks his punishments(in some cases).

 

[chaosmasterro]

Let Mewtwo turn around during teleport and reduce the lag on it, Mewtwo would be great.

 

[Chiroz]

Let Mewtwo turn around during teleport and reduce the lag on it, Mewtwo would be great.

Why do you want him to turn around?

 

[chaosmasterro]

Why do you want him to turn around?

So when I'm underneath the stage, I can grab the platform without completely missing it. It's only a problem when I can't go directly up because I get stuck hitting the bottom of the stage.

 

[Chiroz]

So when I'm underneath the stage, I can grab the platform without completely missing it. It's only a problem when I can't go directly up because I get stuck hitting the bottom of the stage.

He grabs the edge when facing the other way too, I think I don't understand what you mean.

 

[chaosmasterro]

He grabs the edge when facing the other way too, I think I don't understand what you mean.

Sorry, let's say you're underneath battlefield round the center. Let's say you want to grab the edge on the left side of the stage. Directing your teleport straight up will cause you to hit the ceiling underneath the stage. So you make a decision to go diagonal at a 135 degree angle to grab the ledge. You can't grab the ledge from behind until teleport ends and you are in free fall animation. Because of the way teleport works if you're going in a certain direction besides up or down Mewtwo will go forward in that direction when he reappears, thus missing the edge entirely.

 

[Chiroz]

Sorry, let's say you're underneath battlefield round the center. Let's say you want to grab the edge on the left side of the stage. Directing your teleport straight up will cause you to hit the ceiling underneath the stage. So you make a decision to go diagonal at a 135 degree angle to grab the ledge. You can't grab the ledge from behind until teleport ends and you are in free fall animation. Because of the way teleport works if you're going in a certain direction besides up or down Mewtwo will go forward in that direction when he reappears, thus missing the edge entirely.

Ah, I see what you mean.

 

[srn347]

In which case the buff mewtwo's side B got will help him reposition himself prior to teleporting.

 

[Chiroz]

In which case the buff mewtwo's side B got will help him reposition himself prior to teleporting.

What buff?

 

[srn347]

It elevates you slightly if you use it in the air.

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo is way too much of a glass cannon.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Mewtwo is way too much of a glass cannon.

Glass handcannon more like.

 

[1FC0]

Mewtwo is way too much of a glass cannon.

He is not a glass cannon because even though he is very strong he has very good defence . You just need to evade , block , prevent ,or reflect the opponents attacks and then you can see that Mewtwo is very good defensively.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Good defense implies Mewtwo can take a hit. He isn't like Ganon, Charizard, or Bowser.

 

[srn347]

He is, in fact, a glass cannon. He just has decent defensive options.

 

[Deleted member]

The deal with Mewtwo is that he is the same shadowy badass we remember from Melee and have good memories leaving the Gamecube on all night and then wake up to end the match and challenge him at FD with Pokefloats theme playing away. The problem that has haunted him here and there is that he's so light for some reason. That body looks middle-weightish as it is in Project M and that's how it should be ( Armored Mewtwo should be in 4! ) Anyways, if that issue with paper-weight could be solved, you can be the powerhouse you dreamed of and spend your bucks on. It's a hi-power glass cannon as of now!

And you can't be so defensive that you spend the whole match rolling around and having fun with his cool teleport moves. You gotta attack!

 

[misterOWAIN33]

My Mewtwo complaint is that I have to pay extra money for him.

 

[MagiusNecros]

My Mewtwo complaint is that I have to pay extra money for him.

And no custom moves either!

 

[misterOWAIN33]

And no custom moves either!

Yeah, that would have been epic.

Spoiler

But Nintendo doesn't do epic. They do this. JKLOL

 

[Karsticles]

Now that the frame data is out for rolls and spot dodges, I am surprised Mewtwo has such bad rolls compared to the rest of the cast. I feel like Mewtwo has no great tools to get out of pressure, but he isn't that great at keeping people out, either.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Now that the frame data is out for rolls and spot dodges, I am surprised Mewtwo has such bad rolls compared to the rest of the cast. I feel like Mewtwo has no great tools to get out of pressure, but he isn't that great at keeping people out, either.

And this while Mewtwo had one of the best rolls in Melee...

 

[Psyruby]

And this while Mewtwo had one of the best rolls in Melee...

Ya, Lucario stole Mewtwo's standard B and rolls in Brawl, and he kept them in Smash 4. I'm pretty sure they wanted to give Mewtwo the best air dodge to compensate for his bad jump(as in getting out of combos with it), however they double penalized by also giving him bad rolls.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ya, Lucario stole Mewtwo's standard B and rolls in Brawl, and he kept them in Smash 4. I'm pretty sure they wanted to give Mewtwo the best air dodge to compensate for his bad jump(as in getting out of combos with it), however they double penalized by also giving him bad rolls.

Hence why I think Melee Mewtwo was better.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

wow.. that's.. just sad. the one thing he was actually really good at and they take it away from him in addition to the fact that his rolls no longer have the stylish and ambiguous teleport animation.

 

[godogod]

Is it just me or is Mewtwo's Shadowball received more nerfs than its melee version? Better yet, does its buff outweights its nerfs?

buffs:
+more knockback
+travels farther

Nerfs:
-No longer does damage when charging
-You have the recoil of half the stage distance of final destination in the air, which limits offensive ways of getting back in the stage and can cause an SD.

I'm glad its a decent kill option.. But the recoil bugs me the most, and I d miss no damage while charging. Most of all, I'm completely baffled how much Aura Sphere outclasses this move and every other charged projectile.

+damages enemies nearby while charing
+charges faster with aura boost
+more powerful after mid power Aura
+This one is big... It's a viable edge guarding tool. It actually has a good chance of hitting enemies hanging on a ledge, besides water shuriken!. Not many people even know this.. But this is HUGE. No other charged projectile can do this!!

Shadowball does more damage and knockback from the beginning and travels a little bit farther, but you don't get damage from charging and it has heavy recoil in air limiting offensive ways of getting on the stage w/ a possible self gimp.
Its super easy to survive above 100% with Lucario, and Lucario's aura spehre will outclass it in every way in this regard, minus a tiny part of distance.

Can Mewtwo at least either damage enemies while charging, or have a possible chance of hitting enemies holding on to ledges? /:

 

[Psyruby]

Is it just me or is Mewtwo's Shadowball received more nerfs than its melee version? Better yet, does its buff outweights its nerfs?

buffs:
+more knockback
+travels farther

Nerfs:
-No longer does damage when charging
-You have the recoil of half the stage distance of final destination in the air, which limits offensive ways of getting back in the stage and can cause an SD.

I'm glad its a decent kill option.. But the recoil bugs me the most, and I d miss no damage while charging. Most of all, I'm completely baffled how much Aura Sphere outclasses this move and every other charged projectile.

+damages enemies nearby while charing
+charges faster with aura boost
+more powerful after mid power Aura
+This one is big... It's a viable edge guarding tool. It actually has a good chance of hitting enemies hanging on a ledge, besides water shuriken!. Not many people even know this.. But this is HUGE. No other charged projectile can do this!!

Shadowball does more damage and knockback from the beginning and travels a little bit farther, but you don't get damage from charging and it has heavy recoil in air limiting offensive ways of getting on the stage w/ a possible self gimp.
Its super easy to survive above 100% with Lucario, and Lucario's aura spehre will outclass it in every way in this regard, minus a tiny part of distance.

Can Mewtwo at least either damage enemies while charging, or have a possible chance of hitting enemies holding on to ledges? /:

Uh you are over selling Aura Sphere. Don't get me wrong, Aura Sphere is good, but Shadow Ball is better for the majority of the match. Aura Sphere actually takes longer than Shadow Ball and Charge Shot to charge. Like 1.5x as long. Also, Aura Sphere requires 150% Lucario to do 25% and have comparable knockback. The best thing about Aura Sphere is reverse B hitbox and edge guarding with it due to the size.

However, I would say Shadow Ball is better. Shadow Ball charges fast, does 25%, really high knockback at all times, has really high priority, high shield damage, and has the same property as Lucario's Aura Sphere where dodging it usually results in still getting hit. Also, the recoil of Shadow Ball can be used as another movement option. Unlike Samus, Mewtwo can B reverse Shadow Ball, and recoil toward the stage, or he can even recoil above the stage toward off the stage to get to the oppoment without wasting his second jump. Basically, this recoil is a double edge sword and not a straight negative.

 

[godogod]

aura sphere can edgeguard/hit enemies hanging on a ledge regardless of its size. I tested a fully charged AS at 0% while using lucario.

I just had my SB stopped by some Lucario players charged AS near 0% a few days ago.

Aura sphere damages while charging I something out of all of them , which is pretty dumistinct.

I really don't like the double edged sword and recover in almost any situation when falling from a ledge. The recoil leaves his back open she going towards a stage.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Aura Sphere can be reflected and is predictably easy to do so.

 

[godogod]

Aura Sphere can be reflected and is predictably easy to do so.

every projectile can be reflected...

 

[MagiusNecros]

every projectile can be reflected...

Unless you are Charizard and become a Projectile yourself.

But why Flare Blitz when I can Blast Burn.

 

[Psyruby]

aura sphere can edgeguard/hit enemies hanging on a ledge regardless of its size. I tested a fully charged AS at 0% while using lucario.

I just had my SB stopped by some Lucario players charged AS near 0% a few days ago.

Aura sphere damages while charging I something out of all of them , which is pretty dumistinct.

I really don't like the double edged sword and recover in almost any situation when falling from a ledge. The recoil leaves his back open she going towards a stage.

This really doesn't make up for a huge part of how Mewtwo's Shadow Ball is a lot more powerful on average, a lot more priority on average and does a lot more shield damage. Lucario has to be at really high percents to have comparable output, and some characters just never let him get there. Don't get me wrong, I think Lucario is the better character, but Shadow Ball is better than Aura Sphere until about 100% Lucario.

 

[godogod]

^^which is fairly easy to stay alive for a bit. Lucario isn't a light weight.

 

[Psyruby]

^^which is fairly easy to stay alive for a bit. Lucario isn't a light weight.

This is not something to take lightly, this is saying that you would rather have Lucario at 100% than a Mewtwo at 0% despite packing the same power for their projectile. Just when Lucario is packing heat, he is about to fall over. Mewtwo on the other hand, has an equally powerful projectile at 0%. That's amazing.

EDIT: This is worded poorly looking back on it. Yes Lucario is better, but during 0-100%, Aura Sphere has been worse than Shadow Ball. This is a pretty big deal cause that is about 5/6's of Lucario's stock that he has had a worse projectile than Mewtwo.

 

[420quickscoper]

I have a hard time complaining about Mewtwo. You can't just expect him to be super easy to learn and hoo-hah everywhere, like... Diddy Kong. Remember that Mewtwo is the epitome of a glass cannon, but think about the things he can kill with...

-Fsmash
-Dsmash
-Usmash
-ShadowBall
-Fair
-Dair
-Disable to setup for Kills
-Confusion to setup for Kills

That's 6 kill moves. SIX! Not to mention that he has Confusion and Disable to easily get those kills. He dies early? So what? He kills easily, but gets killed easily. His recovery can also be useful. He's got shadow ball to glide him back, confusion to propel him forward and Teleport to finish the job.

Dtilt and Utilt are also great combo moves.

Mewtwo is a very fun character to use, IMO. Let's remember that we've only give him a month to be improved within the metagame. It's awkward to be complaining on the second day, when this thread was posted.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Him being so light weighted is more awkward than anything. He has all the tools to be viable, yes. But weird design choices to prevent him from using them effectively.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah being light, floaty, and having a awkward jump and a few wonky physics on his hitboxes for some attacks makes him difficult to learn.

 

[Kyzael]

My complaint for Mewtwo...Hm...Other than the lightweight problem, i'd say my problem is that Shadowball doesn't do damage while charging (I end up reverse B'ing like I do with Lucario) or that it takes a bit longer to finish charging.

Out of OP moves on him, i'd say it's Confusion. JUST because of how drastic the scaling of dmg/KO after a projectile gets hit with Confusion. It destroys shields and even pierces reflectors after being reflected once. It destroys Pit's guardian orbitars(Literally), breaks Fox's reflector (Not literally, but he'll get hit), and the projectile (in this case, Shadow Ball) becomes very dangerous.

Mewtwo wont even be able to reflected it after shadowball being hit with confusion twice as it'll pierce it.

 

[Tito Maas]

I've tried and tried but I feel like I can't get past Mewtwo's weight and size.

He's just too damn light.

It is absolutely ridiculous that he is the second lightest character in the game. Not only does it not make sense for his character, but it's completely unjustifiable for him to be that light and vulnerable, even competitively (no, being strong doesn't mean hinder him to that degree. Which is even worsened by the fact that they made him lighter than he wax in Melee. A complete misjudgment if how to handle this character.

He basically has the Little Mac thing going on, except he doesn't have the super armor to use his awesome offense as a defense).

I can't get by it. I may have lost my 17th consecutive against Ganon (part of a larger losing slump where I've been losing to him consistently over the course of the week), and I can't do it anymore. No matter how well you do, it seems like one **** up and you're done, unapologetically.

I'm an offensive-minded player, but seriously--you have to have even a little defense for me to be able to work with you. Just a little.

He's so fragile that he's not even a good representative for the character of Mewtwo. Not the badass from Mewtwo Strikes Back, not the level 70 final boss from Red and Blue, not the Pokemon Adventures spoon Mewtwo--heck, probably not even representative of the lame Mewtwo from the Genesect movie I never saw.

I wanted to make Mewtwo my secondary but he just is too weak defensively to hold that position. At best, I feel like I can use him as a counterpick against people like Megaman.

I'm so frustrated. I've been playing with him nonstop and I can't even feel myself getting any better with him.

 

[Chiroz]

My complaint for Mewtwo...Hm...Other than the lightweight problem, i'd say my problem is that Shadowball doesn't do damage while charging (I end up reverse B'ing like I do with Lucario) or that it takes a bit longer to finish charging.

Out of OP moves on him, i'd say it's Confusion. JUST because of how drastic the scaling of dmg/KO after a projectile gets hit with Confusion. It destroys shields and even pierces reflectors after being reflected once. It destroys Pit's guardian orbitars(Literally), breaks Fox's reflector (Not literally, but he'll get hit), and the projectile (in this case, Shadow Ball) becomes very dangerous.

Mewtwo wont even be able to reflected it after shadowball being hit with confusion twice as it'll pierce it.

Confusion has the same reflect value as other reflectors. Confusion isn't what has the "drastic scaling" it's Shadow Ball. Shadow Ball is the strongest projectile in the game (except for ~120%+ Aura Sphere).

I agree that Confusion is incredibly good though, but it's not because it's reflector value or not just because of it's reflector value. It's because of all it does. Command Grab, sets up combos, reflects, helps recovery, helps movement, allows for stalling aerially to throw off your opponent, deals decent damage, what DOESN'T it do? (I guess doesn't guarantee us combos which is what everyone wanted but honestly that would be OP).

Talking for real, Uncharged Shadow Ball is like top 3 projectiles in terms of projectile speed vs range vs animation speed vs damage, it's just great at everything. One of the fastest projectile animations, incredibly long range, decent damage and decent projectile speed. Charged Shadow Ball is the strongest projectile in the game. Enough said.

 

[Demon-oni]

Just came by to see what everyone's opinions were. Surprised to see so many people just gripe on and on about his weight.

Does it suck that it's that low? Yes. Does that stop him from being competitively viable? Not really. Mewtwo is just a very polarized character, meaning he has a some glaring strengths and some glaring weaknesses.

On the plus side:
His range beats any non swordsman excluding DK
his neutral game is strong with a very good projectile, a reflector/command grab, and of course his reach
his overall recovery is within the top 10 in the game easy
has a strong punish options with disable, dtilt, and usmash covering a variety of scenarios
has a great kill throw
lots of good hit confirms for 2-3 hit combos with decent damage
a great set of aerials
Good anti juggling options in teleport and confusion
Has the best air dodge period
Has high kill power and isn't unlikely to see him kill below the 100's at times
and of course a decent off stage game.

On the down side:
His size makes him combo food for faster characters
His light weight lets him see some surprisingly early deaths
Doesn't have a fast dash so his approach options are limited
No follow up potential to any of his throws without a hard read
No move to rely on to punish close range rolls
Without proper spacing, its hard for his tilts to be utilized effectively for lack of priority.

Polarized characters always feel amazingly overpowered in some match ups, and like utter garbage in others. Anyone last hear of Little Mac? Now Mewtwo isn't quite as polarized as our underdog boxer, but you certainly won't see him ever reaching above high tier because of his faults either, they're just to undermining. I still solidly place him around upper Mid tier due to his strengths, but he's more of a double blind or counter pick option, because anyone who knows how to fight a Mewtwo will just pick one of his 13 counters and that's a free game in a set.