Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Le vieux lapin]

Summing this up:

Banning MK is fair to 37/38ths of the community.

Now can we continue with our lives?

Yes.


But I haven't sen such a good argument thread in a while. And the flaming
has died down recently.



And yes we all hear you Alien Vision.

 

[PZ]

89 viewers pfft this is no thread its a show:O

 

[Le vieux lapin]

Yeah I think the only people veiwing are the ones who have really cared
enough to watch the whole time, or are just bored and waiting to be entertained.

 

[Alien Vision]

Yeah I think the only people veiwing are the ones who have really cared
enough to watch the whole time, or are just bored and waiting to be entertained.

I was pretty entertained when you were like.. ''^This....''

I was like :DDDDDD

Then you were then like ''EDIT:''

I was like..

.

>________>

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah I think the only people veiwing are the ones who have really cared
enough to watch the whole time, or are just bored and waiting to be entertained.

Cared in my case. To be fair, I read through all 50-some pages before posting. I didn't skip a single thing.

 

[Alien Vision]

Cared in my case. To be fair, I read through all 50-some pages before posting. I didn't skip a single thing.

I read from 1-35 skipped to 60, and then read every page up to this page.

 

[Chuee]

I read from 1-35 skipped to 60, and read every page up to this page.

>not using 20 PPP

 

[Alien Vision]

>not using 20 PPP

You've lost me

 

[Le vieux lapin]

Wow, devoted much. There was so much hate to filter through. I only read through
the last couple of pages before I post. Eventually, it seems this community runs
out of steam on the subject.

We can sit here and debate to no avail and for no purpose, and I'm
sure that is what we will do, but ultimatley there is nothing we can do but talk.

Me? i'm just gonna wait a few months and HOPE we survive this.

 

[Ussi]

he uses 40 posts per pages




almost typed pages per post :S





also gotta wait till apex is over then MK is banned truly

 

[El Duderino]

Maybe you should read the ENTIRE post before you say that. Not everyone can do that. Nor should they have to go buy a 15 dollar thing so they can fix something.

I did, I just disregarded a lot of it because people have been running Brawl+ tournaments just fine for a while now. SD cards are pretty common, and haven't really stopped much of anything. Sorry I don't quote everything or respond to every last detail. I prefer not to contribute to walls of text, especially in a fast moving thread.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Not just MK.

People who had bad MU's against characters like Snake will now suffer as well.

This is true for Lucario, though MK was pretty close to being as bad for him.

Link would take Snake over MK any day.

Ike is forever in our hearts a low tier, thanks to his ******** lack of speed.

Jab, Bair, I think there are other pretty fast moves but those are the first ones I thought of.

~

Does Mango even play Marth in tournament seriously? I've only seen TaJ and M2K use him in melee in which he's no where near as good as MK.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I did, I just disregarded a lot of it because people have been running Brawl+ tournaments just fine for a while now. SD cards are pretty common, and haven't really stopped much of anything. Sorry I don't quote everything or respond to every last detail. I prefer not to contribute to walls of text, especially in a fast-moving thread.

This very much contradicts your entire point. If you're not willing to contribute at your fullest, how can you expect people to. Likewise, UCR does not run Hacked Brawl Tournaments. If you want to convince them to do it, you're not going to do it here. This is strictly about Metaknight, not changing the gameplay itself just so a broken character isn't broken. (now, changing rules is a different story, which we already did, to note. It also didn't work very well.)

Let me be very clear: If you don't want people to be lazy, don't act lazy yourself. It's very hypocritical. And really doesn't drive your point home. It just makes us look over it instead. Also, btw, I won't skip your posts. I will reply to them. I will make sure I see it. I will respect you on that. I ask you do the same.

 

[Chuee]

he uses 40 posts per pages

oh
40 is max then

 

[Le vieux lapin]

Ike's speed isn't ********. He isn't THAT slow. He just has a lacking general maneuverability(?),
and is easy to combo. He has some very fast moves, but they just are not good enough to let him
win. I don't think his low-tier status has more to do with just being "slow', though I am no expert on
the tier system.

 

[El Duderino]

HyperFalcon, I've already made my final statement on the issue, I'm not going to continue down the bottomless rabbit hole with you any further. I don't put the same level effort into every response that you do because...

1. I had multiple people to respond to. It's impossible.
2. I don't need as many sentences to get my point across.
3. Quite frankly I just don't care to.

 

[Alien Vision]

HyperFalcon, I've already made my final statement on the issue, I'm not going to continue down the bottomless rabbit hole with you any further. I don't put the same level effort into every response that you do because...

1. I have multiple people to respond to. It's impossible.
2. I don't need as many sentences to get my point across.
3. Quite frankly I just don't care to.

You. Haven't. Even. Gotten. Your. Point. Across.

 

[El Duderino]

You. Haven't. Even. Gotten. Your. Point. Across.

Haha, nice try. But you're not pulling me back in that easy. Go find someone else to gang up on.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

HyperFalcon, I've already made my final statement on the issue, I'm not going to continue down the bottomless rabbit hole with you any further. I don't put the same level effort into every response that you do because...

1. I have multiple people to respond to. It's impossible.
2. I don't need as many sentences to get my point across.
3. Quite frankly I just don't care to.

1: Try harder. Like you want us to.
2: So being articulate and clear is wrong? Who knew?
3: Then why did you take the time to respond to me instead of saying "Okay, I get it, I'm leaving" instead? If you're going to leave, I respect that. But actually do it instead of egging me on with stuff like this. Also, I've made it clear before: If you want people to do the work you suggest, make sure you do the work too. People WILL listen to you if you put the effort in. And they have. They just disagree. As do I. I do respect you, but you're not exactly giving us reasons to go to your side now.

Anyway, since you made it clear you don't want to discuss this any further, I'll withdraw from speaking to you beyond this post.

Oh, and do us a huge favor: Don't play the "ganging up on me" crap. It's annoying no matter who does it. We're not ganging up on you. If a person is flaming you, report it. We're discussing it with you. We expect the same level of discussion from you.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

The rest of us have lost track of your arguments while you argue about arguing.
Quit pickin at each other's styles of debate and get to the point.

Also, how can you guys expect the Dude to write clear arguments VS. like 3 people at once?


The post below me. Yes.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

You. Haven't. Even. Gotten. Your. Point. Across.

Infract me for this mods.

Shut. The. ****. Up.

At least Hyper Falcon is contributing something to the thread in his dissertations versus Duderino. All you're doing is railing against Duderino pointlessly and riding the ****s of those that are actually having a conversation with him.

Smooth Criminal

 

[SmashChu]

The unbalanced bias train is still rolling.

SmashChu, ''The Meta-Knight problem has more to do with players being bad and not adapting rather than him being good.''

MK is utterly, indubatably, truly, unequivocally BROKEN. He was put in his own tier, known as God Tier, for a blatant reason..

Yeah, not the first time that's happened in a game. Surprise surprise, some characters are strong. Yet I can find much evidence that Meta-Knight is beatable. C and D tier characters can beat him. How is he broken. In fact, you just say he is. If the likes of Sonic and Yoshi can beat him, I don't think he's overpowered and it's your weakness as a player.

We set a precedent here for future Smash games with this ban. I hope that we made the right choice and that in future games situations where a bannable character can be dealt with swiftly. I also hope that the community will continue to mature and learn how to craft more self aware rule-sets and metrics to determine what is deemed as an issue in the metagame. If we made the wrong choice, this means that a character that is worse than Meta knight in a new Smash game might never be banned.

Yeah, that's not a good thing. I guess it is true that banning is what defines Smash Brothers. If you want to what what i mean by going backwards, it's this. Removing as much content from a game isn't better. All it means is your really really good at playing this set way. What's next? In SSB4, half of the cast isn't playable, only one stage is on and the rules are very specific.

One of the major complaints is that the game is not anything like anyone else is playing. I play the Smash Starcraft 2 the pros do, just at different levels. But I do not play Smash the way the "pros" are doing it, This may also be why I go online and beat tournament players all the time. So sure, you may win small tournaments, but you'll lose going up against anyone else because they perfected Smash Bros, not this ******* game you made up.

 

[Krystedez]

Actually, its the weakness of the players losing to Sonic and Yoshi...

God ... -_-

 

[Le vieux lapin]

Yeah, not the first time that's happened in a game. Surprise surprise, some characters are strong. Yet I can find much evidence that Meta-Knight is beatable. C and D tier characters can beat him. How is he broken. In fact, you just say he is. If the likes of Sonic and Yoshi can beat him, I don't think he's overpowered and it's your weakness as a player.

This is a classic example of the "it's not the character its the player" argument.
Yes, skill has more influence in a match than character selection. That is how the
those C and D tier mains can win against Mk. But if two players of the EXACT same
skill went up against each other, one using Mk and the other using, say... Link, who would win?

... Who do you think?

So yes, skill and weaknesses of the player is important, but Mk still matters.

 

[Delta-cod]

Yoshi main here:

While I have beaten some pretty high end MKs with Yoshi, I've lost to MKs on a considerably lower level simply because these lower level MKs, you know, actually knew how to fight Yoshi. The only reason MK should be losing to me is because the player didn't know what he was doing and I miraculously managed to outplay him by a significant margin.

 

[WindMajor]

Yeah, not the first time that's happened in a game. Surprise surprise, some characters are strong. Yet I can find much evidence that Meta-Knight is beatable. C and D tier characters can beat him. How is he broken. In fact, you just say he is. If the likes of Sonic and Yoshi can beat him, I don't think he's overpowered and it's your weakness as a player.

I'm not sure if evidence exists that MK is beatable without his two rules keeping him legal removed.

 

[Bees!]

Actually, its the weakness of the players losing to Sonic and Yoshi...

God ... -_-

That ^ Once upon a time ADHD would beat m2k all the time. Until M2k learned the MU now look at the last year and a half of tourneys. How many times has ADHD beaten m2k? Same thing applies to Yoshi players and Sonic players. The MKs dont play the MU correctly or even smart for that matter, they fall for things because they don't know what the character does. But once they figure out the MU they win everytime. This is one of the biggest problems also with arguments like "learn the MU" A very 2009 argument. 2 and a half years later people have dedicated all of that time into learning the MU. In turn the MKs learned the MU as well so it did little to help the other characters, in fact, it did quite the opposite and made MK even better. That is what we are seeing now. Also when you fight a character where it is "Better win the first game of the set so you can have a 40% or less chance of winning." there is something wrong there.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm not sure if evidence exists that MK is beatable without his two rules keeping him legal removed.

I'd bet if tournaments were done without any character restrictions... it'd be almost all MK's winning. The fact that characters only have a chance because we had to put in rules to MK less broken only says that the character is broken. It does not make him less. It kind of speaks for itself, ya know?

 

[El Duderino]

At least Hyper Falcon is contributing something to the thread in his dissertations versus Duderino. All you're doing is railing against him pointlessly and riding the ****s of those that are actually having a conversation with him.

It really is getting pointless. I give my stance and people continue to say I have no point. Move on, there is nothing left to discuss here if these kind of shots are all that is left.

 

[Alien Vision]

Infract me for this mods.

Shut. The. ****. Up.

At least Hyper Falcon is contributing something to the thread in his dissertations versus Duderino. All you're doing is railing against Duderino pointlessly and riding the ****s of those that are actually having a conversation with him.

Smooth Criminal

I tend to not take people who already dislike me, for childish reasons, seriously.

Stop talking out of your spiteful ***. You know damn well you've hated me since the moment I showed my face on this site. Also, I have contributed. Gtfo.

 

[PersonallyIPreferDair]

I don't think it's worth it to argue with SmashChu. Obviously they play at different level of skill than most people here.

Just saiyan.

 

[Big Moose]

I have a guitar and don't know how to play it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Actually, its the weakness of the players losing to Sonic and Yoshi...

God ... -_-

And Ganon, but we know what happened with Fonz when he went straight Ganon with MK banned.

Though for a lot of MUs, it feels like to me a lot of characters are put into a player fault for losing to them, but that seems ok if the MU isn't something like, Link vs Falco.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

El Dude, Smooth Guy, Alien Bro and Falcon Punch. Chill out. Just start over and wipe the slate clean.
You guys are not even contributing anymore cause you are too busy hating each other.

Big Moose. Learn like the rest of America.

 

[Alien Vision]

El Dude, Smooth Guy, Alien Bro and Falcon Punch. Chill out. Just start over and wipe the slate clean.
You guys are not even contributing anymore cause you are too busy hating each other.

Big Moose. Learn like the rest of America.

I'm cool with everyone but Smooth Crumbs.

His judgment may be great on most things, it lacks when it's regarding me because of his unreasonable spite towards me.

 

[Krystedez]

I was going to say something but Chris got it Play nice guys, just drop it if it isn't going anywhere except to stfu's and gtfo's. You can get mad, but don't act on it, sheesh~ Even arguements with Jebus were fine, at least they were entertaining.

and to contribute I just want to say that I feel like everytime I've played the MK matchup, and I win, I know I've done something right and they've done something wrong. When I lose, they've done something right, regardless if I've done something correct or not.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Can we tone down on the personal stuff, I'd feel better if we did.

 

[Big Moose]

Big Moose. Learn like the rest of America.

Lets have a religious debate.

 

[Alien Vision]

Can we tone down on the personal stuff, I'd feel better if we did.

Let's make this clear.

I was joking with my last response to El Dude which for some reason, god knows why, caused Smooth Crumbs to attack me XD.

I have nothing towards Falcon.

 

[ZxChrono]

Whoa! I have been gone for over a year and I never thought this day would come. The BBR was obviously corrupted and it was the main reason they never banned MK imo. I don't know when the new group was created and who it consists of but they did the right thing regardless of all the QQ from top (MK) players.