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Meta Knight 2.6 impressions
- Thread starter Aenglaan
- Start date
Bryonato
Green Hat
What i really like about nado is how you keep all of your momentum after the move ends. Feels like dk
Tugnus
Smash Cadet
I can't believe all the whining that's going on in this thread. Its almost like most of you in here just straight out suck at this game. People saying MK tech is hard to pull off makes me laugh like SHFFLD Uairs are the hardest thing to do LOL.
Also all this whining about MK horizontal recovery is making me freak out.
First off, its not bad. In fact, its one of the best. VERTICALLY AND HORIZONTALLY!! 4 jumps/shuttle loop+glide/and downB and the shuttle loop causes damage. The 4 jumps/uair/shuttle loop make returning one of the safest when compared to other characters. I dropped down to the bottom of the blastzones until MK is off screen and he can still recover on ANY stage. HE CAN RECOVER FROM UNDER STAGES! Seriously, how many characters can you say that about?
As for his combo game and finishers. WOW. Idk how people can't kill because I'm having such an easy time. Dsmash is a disgusting horizontal kill move and so much **** combos into it. Weak nair will combo into so much. Shuttle loop is beast. I've been dominating floaties with uair chains->shuttle loop. Get people off stage and MK its like free edgeguards. Reverse shuttle loop back on stage edge guards is SICK and it ledge cancels, WAT!
Also MK's f-tilt and d-tilt are SO BEAST. F-tilt stops so much and its a combo starter.
MK is basically a buffed Falcon. Fast with beastly combos, but with a MUCH better off stage game, better priority, better air game, better tilts.... the list goes on. All he lacks is a projectile and he is a bad combo weight.
Also all this whining about MK horizontal recovery is making me freak out.
First off, its not bad. In fact, its one of the best. VERTICALLY AND HORIZONTALLY!! 4 jumps/shuttle loop+glide/and downB and the shuttle loop causes damage. The 4 jumps/uair/shuttle loop make returning one of the safest when compared to other characters. I dropped down to the bottom of the blastzones until MK is off screen and he can still recover on ANY stage. HE CAN RECOVER FROM UNDER STAGES! Seriously, how many characters can you say that about?
As for his combo game and finishers. WOW. Idk how people can't kill because I'm having such an easy time. Dsmash is a disgusting horizontal kill move and so much **** combos into it. Weak nair will combo into so much. Shuttle loop is beast. I've been dominating floaties with uair chains->shuttle loop. Get people off stage and MK its like free edgeguards. Reverse shuttle loop back on stage edge guards is SICK and it ledge cancels, WAT!
Also MK's f-tilt and d-tilt are SO BEAST. F-tilt stops so much and its a combo starter.
MK is basically a buffed Falcon. Fast with beastly combos, but with a MUCH better off stage game, better priority, better air game, better tilts.... the list goes on. All he lacks is a projectile and he is a bad combo weight.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
MK is Fox with a sword.
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned f-smash, tbh Tugnus. That thing is insane and he steps back to space the move FOR you. It's pretty sick.
Tornado fully mashed actually gains you a fair amount of height so you can use it for recovery (empty space to above ledge, ledge to platform) and to kinda toy with people who aren't sweetspotting. I would say that I wish it had an AC height just like I wish that Shuttle Loop had an AC (auto-cancel) height, but w/e, I guess. He's already extremely fast.
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned f-smash, tbh Tugnus. That thing is insane and he steps back to space the move FOR you. It's pretty sick.
Tornado fully mashed actually gains you a fair amount of height so you can use it for recovery (empty space to above ledge, ledge to platform) and to kinda toy with people who aren't sweetspotting. I would say that I wish it had an AC height just like I wish that Shuttle Loop had an AC (auto-cancel) height, but w/e, I guess. He's already extremely fast.
Tugnus
Smash Cadet
I was actually gonna add a part about fsmash lol. I couldn't believe how lag free it is after the pullback. I missed but then threw out a dtilt basically immediately
MK...fox speed, sheik/Marth tilts, jiggs edge guarding, falcon combos. MK mains gonna whine until they get a laser too.
Bryonato
Green Hat
I ****ing love this character. The more i play him the more i like him. Also anyone know the max vertical distance you can get from mashed neutral b?
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
somewhere between 20 and 24 Kappa
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
frame perfect would be this
starting point
ending point (you'd start drifting yourself toward the stage at this point)
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
**** my broken wii
AbstractLogic
Smash Journeyman
Metaknight is getting his revenge. Tornado beats almost every option Sonic has btw
Nazo
Smash Journeyman
I've noticed this as well, but just about anything beats Sonic's moves lol; Playing against MK feels like I'm playing the brawl MU, I like it.
AbstractLogic
Smash Journeyman
I think it feels that way on the MK side as well. It's interesting to say the least. sonics more ranged moves like f-tilt can poke through the nado as well
Nazo
Smash Journeyman
Yea, Sonic's dair can poke through the top of MK's nado too, just like in brawl.
I really enjoy playing as MK as well; I can already tell at this point that MK at high level of play will definitely be a national tournament threat. He's a very flexible character and I can't wait to see him fall into the right hands.
Bryonato
Green Hat
Off topic but how do you feel about Sonic now Nazo? Also thanks for the images toaster. Great to know
GeZ
Smash Lord
I think Metaknight is a really cool character, and not terrible by any means, but it's okay to admit he has flaws guys. You don't have to defend his recovery because you're happy with how he turned out. He's a fun character along with being pretty damn good. But his recovery is just all right. His easily gimped or straight stuffed by anyone with good priority so he's forced to rely on mixing up his returning to the stage so he's not beat down. Just saying, if we're going to get constructive character discussion done, we've gotta be cool admitting he has weaknesses.
Tugnus
Smash Cadet
What are you talking about? Do you not play any other characters? MK's recovery is easily the least predictable recovery. Almost every other character, after the initial UpB input, recovers in almost the exact same way. Meta Knight DOES not. You have full control of him during the glide and if anyone actually goes off stage to gimp you...META KNIGHT CAN JUST GO UNDER THE ****ING STAGE!
GeZ
Smash Lord
I play plenty of characters. I'm just saying his recovery isn't the best. I know that there's a ton of different approaches, I'm just saying realistically a lot of them are easily stuffed, edgeguarded, or beaten when predicted.
Chibi-Chan
Smash Journeyman
Under the stage? You sure you aren't playing Brawl? Every single B Move can be used to recover horizontally, as long as you are only slightly below the ledge. When you are doing it just vertically then your option is DownB and try to sweetspot it. Tornado may reach the ledge but you won't grab it without overshooting (Instant death). Reverse Shuttle Loop MAY do it if you actually touch the floor but it's also a free kill by anyone standing there on the edge... You know.. Edgeguarding you.
It'd be cool if the Glide flying mechanics were closer to Brawl, where he can actually gain a lot of height and fly into the ledge despite a low Shuttle Loop.
It'd be cool if the Glide flying mechanics were closer to Brawl, where he can actually gain a lot of height and fly into the ledge despite a low Shuttle Loop.
GeZ
Smash Lord
Well holy ****. Just tried it, MK can totally swing under a ton of stages. Pretty easily too. I still think he's easily edge guardable because as cool of a trick as it is, if they just see it coming and follow him to the other side of the stage he's still pretty vulnerable when coming back up the other side.
Tugnus
Smash Cadet
LOL. Does anyone in your opinion have a good recovery? Because if MK is "predictable and easily stuffed", everyone else is FREEEEEE (cept the grapplers).
Ummm so what happens with every other character when there's someone on the ledge "edgeguarding you." You make it seem like its IMPOSSIBLE to return. **** if MK can't recover, how the hell has SilentSpectre been doing **** recoveries with Falcon for so many years? How is Shroomed's recovery SOO good yet he is using Dr Mario's stubby little arms to recover?
God, How does DK even make it back with everyones mentality on this subforum? According to everyone's opinion on edgeguarding and the importance of vertical recovery, DK should be the dumbest thing ever.
EDIT: AND SOME MORE RANTING. I've been testing out Nado and am I the only one who thinks its kinda stupid? All you MK mains are ****ting on his awesome recovery, but are in awe of this ****ty tornado. What's going on? The SDI out of it is SUPER easy and it is crouch cancelable up to like 65%. CCShine beasts through it.
Tugnus
Smash Cadet
Double post
Nazo
Smash Journeyman
I love Sonic in 2.6. He definitely feels a lot more balanced, and I enjoy being able to use my tech skill and reading potential to take a match rather than mashing down-B. Hopefully this design of Sonic will remain as it is for the remainder of the project. Sonic's hit and run playstyle reminds me of brawl, which I do enjoy very much; However, there is one slight thing I feel uncomfortable with, which is the difficulty of landing an aerial kill move after down-B. All of Sonic's air attacks seem to miss after successfully hitting the opponent with Down-B. Though It doesn't bother me that much because I'd much rather gimp the opponent anyway.
But other than that, I feel as though Sonic is perfect and should remain unchanged.
On Topic:
Tugnus is right, every special move MK has is a potential recovery move. With the addition of his 4 air jumps this makes for a million-and-one recoveries. Just watch as his metagame evolves, it'll all be clear.
SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
Tugnus
Smash Cadet
Another point to add. Unlike Jiggs and other people with multiple jumps, MK has a super fast Uair that...HE CAN USE AND STILL GAIN VERTICAL DISTANCE! Waaaaaat. So safe.
Chibi-Chan
Smash Journeyman
You can try that your upB ends close to the ledge and then you'll latch. Some recoveries also have invincibility or a difficult to stuff hitbox (Mario/Dr.). Marth's is similarly unsafe to stuff like Tornado recovery except you can actually sweetspot it if you try, not to mention it goes way higher.
You can say what you want about Cfalcon recoveries, it is still really bad and similar to MK's if you use Tornado/Drill/Shuttle. MK does have one good recovery option and it's the Dimensional Cape! And it's not bad at all, but you still don't have "Recovery mixups" vertically like it has been theorized.
DK's vertically recovery? He's in the same spot as MK here, he will die to any meteor or semi spike or even like MK Downsmash. However DK is not reliant on offstage combat and even then his Bair is much safer than MK aerials. When I try to do 2 aerials offstage it's like I'm doing DK/Marth Dair kills. I can probably do more aerials with Mario and still recover better.
BTW I think Metaknight is a great character onstage and has some of the best A moves ever with great throws, speed, combos and such. I just don't really like his recovery even if he has good aerials to kill offstage.. A similar character is Pikachu with similarly good Nair and Bair but I think Pikachu is superior here. Perhaps I played too much Brawl and expected this character to be able to surpass Jiggly gimps, he just turned out very different. Maybe it'll change as his metagame is developed. Perhaps his Uair is an amazing offstage tool to avoid falling while also hitting, dunno.
You can say what you want about Cfalcon recoveries, it is still really bad and similar to MK's if you use Tornado/Drill/Shuttle. MK does have one good recovery option and it's the Dimensional Cape! And it's not bad at all, but you still don't have "Recovery mixups" vertically like it has been theorized.
DK's vertically recovery? He's in the same spot as MK here, he will die to any meteor or semi spike or even like MK Downsmash. However DK is not reliant on offstage combat and even then his Bair is much safer than MK aerials. When I try to do 2 aerials offstage it's like I'm doing DK/Marth Dair kills. I can probably do more aerials with Mario and still recover better.
BTW I think Metaknight is a great character onstage and has some of the best A moves ever with great throws, speed, combos and such. I just don't really like his recovery even if he has good aerials to kill offstage.. A similar character is Pikachu with similarly good Nair and Bair but I think Pikachu is superior here. Perhaps I played too much Brawl and expected this character to be able to surpass Jiggly gimps, he just turned out very different. Maybe it'll change as his metagame is developed. Perhaps his Uair is an amazing offstage tool to avoid falling while also hitting, dunno.
Tugnus
Smash Cadet
Lol. Your dying off stage with MK? I can literally sit off stage, jump bair 4 times, then shuttle loop to anything I want.
Oh and has everyone forgotten that you can ATTACK out of glide...
Chibi-Chan
Smash Journeyman
Yeah I am. But not just jumping and doing like high Bairs and stuff- Going low to catch a recovering opponent close to the stage... Think a Marth or Mario upB, and usually doing Nair. Have started dying much much less now that I only use Dimensional cape though, just need to get over that twitch reflex to upB...
Perhaps in the future Kirby will be the character I wanted this MK to be. To be able to go all the way down to kill and still return.
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
know that getting it even close to frame perfect will probably never happen. i can always get it to like 3 MKs lower than that max height
Tugnus
Smash Cadet
See now the only real applicable situation you can think of where MK goes LOW is during HIS edgeguarding. Dude that's even easier. There's no one up top to edgeguard you... Why would you have wasted any of your jumps?
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
My hard drive is corrupted (all of a sudden lol) and it no longer reads discs of any sort, when you put in a disc and it tries to read it you a black screen and the only option is to turn it off.
However my homebrew/melee still works.
So right now I'm trying to get configurable USB to work so I can load my Brawl .iso and play PM
But the app doesn't work, everything works up until you try to actually load the game, it's there and it recognizes the game it but it warns me that my IOS or cIOS needs to be changed. So I'm trying to change it and that process just isn't working and I really have no clue what to do now since nothing is working
edit:
help =[
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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MKs down b should be the dive kick and not his dair.
Dair should be reverted back to normal.
People claiming that it was broken are overlooking something huge, that it was broken is brawl and was not even in melee. So we need to test it in a melee enviroment.
It'd probably be super good but so what? We have jiggs who can space bair at an insane range so why can't we just apply that to someone who could do it vertically?
Dair should be reverted back to normal.
People claiming that it was broken are overlooking something huge, that it was broken is brawl and was not even in melee. So we need to test it in a melee enviroment.
It'd probably be super good but so what? We have jiggs who can space bair at an insane range so why can't we just apply that to someone who could do it vertically?
Bryonato
Green Hat
They playtested mk with the brawl dair. There's a reason he has the new one...
MegaGuy
Smash Apprentice
MK having his Brawl DAir in P:M basically means spacies, amongst others, will never come back to the stage. That kind of disjoint that sends at a horizontal angle would be even more broken in a Melee-esque environment.
Could have experimented with knockback angles or having it not be a drill, or having that drill at least not be kamikaze offstage. MK's Dair offstage is just a farce and I know the arguments saying whatever it's meant for onstage anyways. Which is exactly why the move carries you til death do you part.
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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This sounds like jigglypuff doing sour spot fair.
SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
Yes that's the thing I was too lazy to do, but Vigilante knows exactly the steps for that. I can invite you into the skype group of brainiacs if you want, my skype is james.madway
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
except instead of her feet, she has a sword, and an upb that helps her recover, and she can fall more quickly to edgeguard.
we already tested multiple different iterations of brawl dair in the pm environment. it's either bad, or retardedly good. pm dair is both good and awesome. dunno why you'd want it reverted.
Player -0
Smash Hero
Also you guys, when recovering, could Down-B first and then start using your jumps to get up so when an opponent hits you you can shuttle loop or something from a much higher vantage point (instead of jumping then caping or something.