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Even if I would take other chars.
He can do this in 1.2, unless you mean he can stand really close to the ledge.
Since the multi-hits never stale below 1%, they're equally SDIable in all versions of Melee. Exposed.
he is exactly the same in every version. read more posts
NO YOU'RE A FRAUDSince the multi-hits never stale below 1%, they're equally SDIable in all versions of Melee. Exposed.
PICHU IS A FRAUD
obv
Well maybe we should start playing Vanilla SF4 to have better matchups than in AE. That makes sense right?
Pretty much explains it.
That's never, ever going to happen.
I'm not sure that standardization of a game disc is a good idea... People can't be too particular about setups and I know more people with 1.2 discs than 1.1 or 1.0. I see your argument of 20XX making those game discs use 1.0 stuff, but 1.2 is the most recent legitimate release in this region; it makes sense to use this version. They fixed those features for a reason, and that's because they weren't supposed to be there in the first place. There are a lot of people I know who have no 20XX cards or no 1.0 discs and either use a GC or don't want to hack their Wii, and we can't afford to lose too many setups or else the tourney will run badly. You may live in a lair of 1.0 discs, but I feel like disc standardization is an unneeded restriction that could seriously hurt communities with little hardware to work with. The point Kage made three years ago still holds true today, despite recent advancements in memory card technology; it would be very restrictive on TOs to have a standardized version. The affected population is simply too low to justify the changes.
I don't live in a lair of 1.0 discs. As a player who is greatly affected by the changes in 1.2, I went out of my way to find one on my own to bring with me to tournaments. We're not asking for every setup to run 1.0 all the time. As most of the common characters aren't changed in the slightest, it would be silly to do that. Low-tier mains who care enough will bring their own discs and memory cards. We just want the option to request using them when we play. If a low-tier main doesn't take on this task themselves, then of course they'll just play with what is provided. No one wants to delay the tournament, and my point with the 20XX memory cards was that now we don't even need to take the small amount of time to swap discs to make the change.
I still don't think there is a large enough difference between 1.0 and 1.2 to determine the outcome of a match for anyone but Link, YL and possibly Ness, but I'd be fine with people requesting their disc to be played (as long as the disc isn't scratched so that Melee doesn't function properly). I don't know why you're so intent on stating that Zelda was nurfed in 1.2, though; she didn't change at all.
Banning items and restricting stages are a part of the game; that's why there's an option to turn off all items and change the stage select. Nintendo gave us core mechanics to work with and we haven't ever banned them; we have banned some glitches (like the Freeze glitch) and two types of stalling (to avoid timer abuse) because they are unintended consequences to poor game design, but we have never messed with the mechanics or balancing of the game and called it a "Melee" tournament. Also, does Sm4sh use the latest version? Does PM use the latest version? The answer to both is yes. Neither are the most balanced iterations of its respective game, but both are played on the most recent version; why shouldn't Melee be the same? I still think that a standardized game version is a dumb idea, but the latest version per region should be a standard for any game (and is for pretty much every other fighting game, as well as nearly every other eSport).
Alright, so the fact that Zelda doesn't show up directly on the list of characters changed in 1.0 has apparently led to some misinformation. Allow me to explain why exactly it is that the game version can and will directly contribute to either winning or losing a match. In 1.0, if a move deals less than 1% damage it has no hitlag, meaning SDI is impossible to perform. Numerous multi-hit moves whose individual hits deal less than 1% by themselves, such as Young Link/Samus's up-b attacks and Zelda's forward/up smashes, were clearly designed around this mechanic being in place. They start with a bunch of little hits which link into a more powerful one.
Why SHOULD it be the same? Melee isn't your typical eSport. We play on CRTs using 15-year-old hardware from a time when patches and updates as we know them now didn't exist. Perhaps because of that, as of right now, the standards are completely silent on this matter. If you go to your local tournament, chances are that you'll have a mixed bag of 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2 setups, without most players even noticing. But why would they? It simply does not matter if you use higher-tier characters. If you have a match between a Fox and a Sheik, the changes in the game versions have absolutely no effect on the match, so you wouldn't bother with knowing what version you're playing on. However, if you have a match between a Fox and a Link, the game version can have a huge effect on the match. In a competitive environment, why would you possibly want to have what goes on during gameplay be decided by what setup in the venue you and your opponent happen to sit down to play at?
OK, that makes more sense.
The only downside I can think of is that it would slow down tournaments when it happens (you would have to switch out discs or cards, play a set, then switch back; that whole process would add about a minute to the set time). Other than that, I see no reason to not give people the option of what version to play on. I would add that this shouldn't be done mid-set, as it could reset the momentum and possibly play a bigger part in the outcome of the game than the version being played.
These types of responses are exactly why I believe that adding a clause to the Official Smashboards Melee Ruleset is the single most important thing that can be done with regards to this issue. When this topic is brought up, many people react with these types of initial concerns that don't actually have any relation to what is being proposed. Just look at this thread; you have the same arguments, such as potential disc scarcity and downplaying of the impact it would actually have on matches, being brought up again and again. It takes a great deal of explaining for people to actually realize what we are asking for and how easily it could be put into effect at tournaments. In fact,
AXE 09
, if you would be willing to edit your initial post to address some of these instinctual, but ultimately unrelated, concerns and to include some of the points and clarifications that have been made made over the course of the thread, that might help reduce misunderstanding from people who only look at the first page. Maybe adding a poll or something as well could be useful in order to gauge relative interest from people who are not posting.
Those who are affected by it will care enough to bring their own copy. If that isn't worth it to them, then they'll play on what's available.
I thought you were trying to enforce a rule? Sounds pretty open ended.
No more open-ended than the option to do a blind pick. If you're familiar with the current ruleset, you shouldn't have trouble understanding that enforcing this rule wouldn't be an issue.
Ultimately, everything is up to the TO in the end. It shouldn't be any other way. I mean, Kongo Jungle is listed as a doubles counterpick here, but that doesn't mean every region allows it. But as I went over earlier, without having this particular rule addressed in the Smashboards ruleset, I don't think it would have a fair shot to be put into practice at many tournaments, even ones with TOs who would normally be okay with it if given a complete understanding of the situation. It has the unfortunate combination of being a request that is both uncommon and difficult to explain, but at the same time, one of extreme importance when it does happen to come up. Precisely the type of thing that warrants increased clarification at a higher level.
Not an issue whatsoever, you just have to locate a large amount of highly priced melee discs that probably aren't made anymore, lol. Changing the standard seldom comes without an issue or two popping up. Some see it as worth the hassle and some don't.
The point is, for those who don't see it as worth the hassle, they won't ever have to worry about it. Most players will never be affected by this change. But for players who are, it makes a huge difference to have this option available to them. Depending on the situation you find yourself in, this change would either do absolutely nothing, or would provide a great benefit. I don't know why you see this as a problem.
