Melee v1.0 should take priority over 1.2 in future tournaments

[AXE 09]

For the past ~10 years, the version of Melee that was the standard to be played at US tournaments (v.1.0, 1.1, or 1.2) hasn't really been addressed. If you play any high tier, then it doesn't really matter. However, to several of the lower tiered characters, IT DOES MATTER.

I brought up the question of which version is the standard version to be played at FC, and the tournament hosts decided to make 1.2 the standard version. That also means that if 2 people were playing a tournament match on a 1.0 setup and 1 player requests to switch to 1.2, you would have to switch to 1.2. The main argument for this by most people was simply "there's more versions of 1.2" which is true. However, that doesn't mean that 1.0 is uncommon. There are plenty of copies of 1.0, and I feel that any player should be allowed to switch to 1.0 if requested.

Why, you may ask?

Mainly because the version differences only affect characters that are not high tier (except for Peach, because in 1.0 you cannot SDI if you get hit by her up-b, but that's insignificant). The higher version of Melee you go, the more disadvantaged lower tiered characters are, and I do not see any reason why you should take those small advantages away from them.

By switching to 1.2, you take away:

-Bowser's flame canceling
-Young Link's boomerang -> hookshot recovery and his safe grounded up-b (since you cannot SDI out of it in 1.0)
-Link/Ylink's boomerang -> hookshot approaches
-Zelda's safer Fsmash/Usmash
-Mewtwo's better Nair (cannot SDI out of if slightly stale in 1.0)
-Samus' slightly safer up-b (can't SDI out of, although still pretty difficult to SDI out of in 1.2)

Why on earth would you want to take away those things from those characters? I know that if you play any high tier then it probably doesn't matter to you. But for those who play any character that is affected by these version differences, then it really does matter.



This is my argument for allowing 1.0 to be played by request at future tournaments held in the USA.

 

[Oneupsalesman]

You raise some really good points, Axe, I have to agree. With the disadvantages lower-tier mains seem to already have, we don't need more than what we already have.

Is there an easy way to tell what version you have?

 

[V3ctorMan]

AZ about to take over dis thread. =D

Low tiers

I support this, will add more insight later?

 

[Yodery]

You raise some really good points, Axe, I have to agree. With the disadvantages lower-tier mains seem to already have, we don't need more than what we already have.

Is there an easy way to tell what version you have?

Yeah, look at the back of your disc. In VERY small writing you'll see something like "DOL-GALE-0-00/01/02". If you see "DOL-GALE-0-00", you have version 1.0. If you see "DOL-GALE-0-01", you have version 1.1. And finally, if you see "DOL-GALE-0-02", you have version 1.2.

 

[AXE 09]

You raise some really good points, Axe, I have to agree. With the disadvantages lower-tier mains seem to already have, we don't need more than what we already have.

Is there an easy way to tell what version you have?

Yes there is:

How to find out what copy of Melee you have: Look at the back of your game disk. Near the middle, there should be really small text. If it says:
DOL-GALE 0-00, you have NTSC 1.0.
DOL-GALE 0-01, you have NTSC 1.1.
DOL-GALE 0-02, you have NTSC 1.2.
If the air you breathe doesn't taste like sweet freedom, you most likely have PAL.​

EDIT:

^Ninja'd

 

[Ripple]

can't forget about Ness' recovery.

 

[kd-]

Thunderjacket. I thought this was only available on v1.0, guess not.

Edit: I'm pretty sure I've seen rulesets that specify you can play on versions 1.0 on request. I thought every big tournament had this

 

[Ripple]

you can do that in any version including PAL

 

[Yodery]

edit:

^ninja'd

You're too slo-oh!

 

[V3ctorMan]

I just wanna say Hi to Hax!! Hiiiiiii Hax, I see you!!!!

uhhhh

melee??

Captain Falcon's low tier... >.<; sorta...

would love if this actually gets some discussion..

 

[Crypt]

seems logical to me if 1.0 is the new standard if high tiers are not affected and low tiers become a little better.

low tier revolution!

 

[EPsilon933]

Better character balance is better when gameplay isn't hindered

Gameplay might actually improve. Multi-hit moves get better

 

[Strong Badam]

Ganondorf's Nair doesn't function properly in 1.0

 

[Ripple]

Ganondorf's Nair doesn't function properly in 1.0

but it works better

 

[BRLNK88]

I wholeheartedly support this, low tiers need all the help they can get.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Samus main and Pika secondary reporting in.

 

[Armada]

This is a really good idea. From what I have heard 1.0 is not that rare and it should be possible for people that wanna play on 1.0 to play on that version.

Low tiers needs those small things kinda much actually so it's not a bad move to play on 1.0.

 

[Bones0]

I think it's pretty obvious that 1.2 should be the standard because it is the newest version.

I think it's also pretty obvious that no one gives a **** about conventional logic for this situation because we love our low tier mains and it's almost unanimously agreed that the characters receiving buffs are worse.

1.0!!!

 

[Froggy]

I think it's pretty obvious that 1.2 should be the standard because it is the newest version.

I think it's also pretty obvious that no one gives a **** about conventional logic for this situation because we love our low tier mains and it's almost unanimously agreed that the characters receiving buffs are worse.

1.0!!!

If the newer version is less fit for competitive gameplay then why is it obvious that it should be the standard version? Not all patches are for beneficial to the competitive scene. It's important to remember that.

 

[Bones0]

Whether a patch is beneficial is completely subjective. Newer versions are always the standard. Why else would a new version have been made? derp

 

[leffen]

Even if 1.0 aren't super rare, its still too rare for a standard. If you're gonna be able to "force" someone to play on 1.0, it absolutely needs to be the majority of the available setups at most tournaments which it will never be


Also, 1.0 suffers from a lot of random *** bugs (I have a version myself) and overall, the buffs are VERY small overall, especially when you compare it to PAL, which has way more logical buffs/nerfs along with better UI (icons are smaller and transparent for example) and being the latest version with the fewest bugs.

In short:
1.2 = whats easiliy available
1.0 = buggy, possibly slightly more balanced than 1.2 but isnt played often and is rare (hasnt been used in tournaments as a standard anywhere)
PAL = Newest version, best balance, but is a bigger change than 1.0, but has been played as a tournament standard by waaaaayyy more people than 1.0

 

[Deleted member]

as a zelda player, i have not yet lost to the version of the game ever, only to my own skill.

sorry axe but i really don't think it matters enough to warrant any kind of observation.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Scarcity isn't really a problem tbh. If there are no 1.0 setups, then play on 1.2. But if there is, then we can force matches onto 1.0 by request. This'll be even simpler if the low tier mains (who care) bring a 1.0 disc with them.

I'm undecided on the issue, but mostly because I don't see it effecting much at all. Then again I'm not a high-level low tier main, so I'm not in a position to judge.

 

[ajp_anton]

I think it's pretty obvious that 1.2 should be the standard because it is the newest version.

µTorrent 3 must be better because it's the newest.

 

[Dan Salvato]

I agree that scarcity shouldn't be a problem. After all, how many players will ACTUALLY REQUEST to play on v1.0? A player to do so would be a) a low tier main and b) one who cares to take advantages of the game version. Even 1-2 v1.0 setups is enough to accommodate those who prefer it.

Also, if this follows through, I will begin seriously practicing Link's v1.0 boomerang tricks, but at the moment I see no reason to do so because there is no real version regulation. The fact that I (and likely others) choose not to practice character tech because it's irrelevant by tournament rules is, in my opinion, an issue.

 

[Jockmaster]

ok I will agree that there should be a rule that 1.0 can be played by request, but not that it be required

that would simply be too frustrating it seems like

 

[Dan Salvato]

ok I will agree that there should be a rule that 1.0 can be played by request, but not that it be required

that would simply be too frustrating it seems like

That's what it means for it to be the "official" version. If someone requests it, the request is obliged. That's how it works with v1.2, anyway.

 

[Froggy]

Whether a patch is beneficial is completely subjective. Newer versions are always the standard. Why else would a new version have been made? derp

I'm asking why should never versions be the standard?

Nintendo created patches without the competitive community into consideration so why should the competitive community take the patches into consideration? It is counter-intuitive.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

I don't fell like getting hit by
Fox drill shine upsmash

 

[Deleted member]

I don't fell like getting hit by
Fox drill shine upsmash

play pichu

 

[Eggm]

I don't fell like getting hit by
Fox drill shine upsmash

You can't smash DI the drill in 1.0?

 

[Ripple]

yes, you can.

half the people here probably don't know moves actually do 1% at freshness

 

[AXE 09]

Even if 1.0 aren't super rare, its still too rare for a standard. If you're gonna be able to "force" someone to play on 1.0, it absolutely needs to be the majority of the available setups at most tournaments which it will never be


Also, 1.0 suffers from a lot of random *** bugs (I have a version myself) and overall, the buffs are VERY small overall, especially when you compare it to PAL, which has way more logical buffs/nerfs along with better UI (icons are smaller and transparent for example) and being the latest version with the fewest bugs.

In short:
1.2 = whats easiliy available
1.0 = buggy, possibly slightly more balanced than 1.2 but isnt played often and is rare (hasnt been used in tournaments as a standard anywhere)
PAL = Newest version, best balance, but is a bigger change than 1.0, but has been played as a tournament standard by waaaaayyy more people than 1.0

1.0 isn't anywhere near as rare as you're claiming. At most tournaments where I actually checked to see what versions of the game each cube had, there was probably like a 1:3 ratio of 1.0 discs to 1.2 (That's how it was at FC, cuz I walked around checking most of the discs to determined which setups I wanted to play on). You say 1.0 has never been a standard at any tournament but neither has 1.2, or 1.1. The standard has never been addressed before in the USA (until the most recent FC).

The buffs make bigger of a difference than you think, but even if you think they are small, then why shouldn't those characters be allowed to receive what small buffs they can get? Especially if they carry their own discs with them. If it doesn't matter to you, but it matters to them, then I think they should be able to switch.

Also, random *** bugs like what??? Messing with your Multi-man Melee high scores? 1.0 doesn't have any new bugs that negatively affect tournament matches that 1.2 doesn't have.

 

[DoH]

**** low tiers to be honest

 

[Bones0]

µTorrent 3 must be better because it's the newest.

It doesn't have anything to do with better or worse. That is completely subjective. µTorrent 3 is the new standard because the people who make it say so.

standard: something considered by an authority or by general consent as a basis of comparison; an approved model

By default, the newest versions are standards based on the people that made the newer version. However, since our community has general consent that 1.0 is better by our own, unofficial guidelines, we can make it our standard.

I'm asking why should never versions be the standard?

Nintendo created patches without the competitive community into consideration so why should the competitive community take the patches into consideration? It is counter-intuitive.

See above. Nintendo = the authority since they're the ones who make the game.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

The only problem I see with this is that 1.0 definitely has more bugs (catching the shadow balls Mewtwo shoots when he FThrows, for instance) and even crash bugs that wouldn't be very hard to perform in a tournament setting.

You definitely do make a good argument, though.

 

[Divinokage]

Ganondorf's Nair doesn't function properly in 1.0

I never noticed any difference between versions.

 

[AXE 09]

The only problem I see with this is that 1.0 definitely has more bugs (catching the shadow balls Mewtwo shoots when he FThrows, for instance) and even crash bugs that wouldn't be very hard to perform in a tournament setting.

You definitely do make a good argument, though.

Oh yeah I did forget about catching M2's shadowballs, which I guess could be a factor in doubles. But what other crash bugs are you talking about?

 

[ShroudedOne]

I like being able to SDI out of Samus's upB and Zelda's BS (Zelda seems to get a huge buff from this, btw). And something bothers me about requesting that an integral element of the game (SDI) be taken away, even in such a small fashion.

But in reality, the effect probably wouldn't be that...uh...bad.

 

[Froggy]

See above. Nintendo = the authority since they're the ones who make the game.

Are you serious? The smash community is autonomous. If Nintendo told us to stop playing the game we would tell them to **** off. We already kinda do that with our mods and Project M. Nintendo is not an authority to us.