If you have any questions, please ask me. I am eager to generate any kind of discussion on this character whatsoever.
I am sitting here in my chair at school, looking over a character list while I am bored. Given that I'm one of 3-5 people using this character in a totally competitive way, and that I have a reasonable amount of success with him, I feel I'm qualified to quickly sort through matchups that are good, bad, etc.
I refuse to give matchup numbers, especially since this game is very new. KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE ARE STRICTLY MY THOUGHTS AS OF THE GIVEN DATE IN THE TOPIC TITLE. I am not making any definitive statement as to how this character can perform theoretically, even though I believe I have a strong understanding of that.
With that said, I will simply sort between FUNDAMENTALLY UNWINNABLE, SLIGHT DISADVANTAGE, NEUTRAL, SLIGHT ADVANTAGE, AND FUNDAMENTALLY UNLOSEABLE.
Also, these all assume you're playing offline against people who are not terrible. Significant lag or bad players can completely change MUs.
FUNDAMENTALLY UNWINNABLE (The Dastardly Four)
Diddy
Sheik
Rosalina
Fox
SLIGHT DISADVANTAGE
Bowser (neutral in theory, just not in practice)
(Dark) Pit
ROB (real potential for neutral)
Falcon (is actually slightly in G&W's favor in practice, because 98% of people who play this character are bad with him)
Villager (fundamentally unwinnable with customs on)
Sonic
G&W (yes, you read that right. You have to play this MU completely differently)
NEUTRAL
Yoshi
Junior (MATCHUP TBD)
Link (potential for slight advantage, don't play against him that often)
Toon Link
ZSS
Palutena
Kirby
Pikachu (MATCHUP TBD)
Greninja (MATCHUP TBD)
Olimar (potential for slight advantage, people who are genuinely skilled with him are hard to find and I'm not used to dealing with competent pikmin management)
Pac Man
Mega Man
SLIGHT ADVANTAGE
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Wario
DK (neutral with customs on)
Zelda
Ganon
Marcina
Robin
DeDeDe
MK
Little Mac
Falco
Charizard
Lucario
Duck Hunt (MATCHUP TBD)
Ness
WFT
Dr. Mario
Shulk
Mewtwo
Mii Fighter
Mii Gunner (MATCHUP TBD)
Mii Swordsman (MATCHUP TBD)
FUNDAMENTALLY UNLOSEABLE
Samus (potential to move out of this tier given perfect prediction)
Ike
Jigglypuff
IMPORTANT NOTES
- Anything saying (MATCHUP TBD) is largely theoretical conjecture. i.e., Duck Hunt shouldn't really have a theoretically good kill method against G&W and has a recovery that G&W can really take advantage of, but I have not played the MU to know these things as absolute facts.
- G&W has a bad matchup against himself because if you are not educated on the flow of the matchup you will theoretically lose to a person with more MU experience; but yet, MU experience is insufficient to win. This is because the matchup dynamic is extremely different from those found in regular play, and revolves a lot around priority jousting, extremely hard reads, and unpredictability.
- I define "FUNDAMENTALLY x" as something where a mid level player with the weaker character can consistently defeat a highly skilled player.
- A lot of people are unaware of how bad G&W vs Pit actually is, and I'm sure this will be one of the bigger surprises. Pit has a lot of range and priority over the majority of G&W's moves and his side B is a theoretical nightmare for G&W. He is really good at resisting prediction. In summary, thank god he's not a good character.
- The dastardly four have several things in common: an ability to play in a completely reactive and non-predictive way for victory, throw combo resistance (weight, get-outs, etc.), and total theoretical resistance to edgeguarding.
- I know some lesser G&W players are going to wonder about DeDeDe's rating because he can seem so hard to kill. The thing is, he's very punishable in an offline environment. This isn't even about how G&W has tons of moves to push Gordos back, I mean that you can literally dash attack him OOS after every ftilt he does and tons of his moves let you attack him from the air. He is also absurdly easy to vortex when he is above you, and furthermore, he has an absurd weakness to throw combos in theory (dthrow > uair > uair > Up B LOL, perhaps double nair too).
- Yes, the ratings for Palutena and Kirby are correct.
- Little Mac is a very extreme MU where one player dominates the other at any given time. Properly played, G&W should win because of dash attack and bair and a theoretical ability to kill LM every time he's offstage.
Again, if you have any questions, ask me. Let's talk about this character and revive this dead forum.
I am sitting here in my chair at school, looking over a character list while I am bored. Given that I'm one of 3-5 people using this character in a totally competitive way, and that I have a reasonable amount of success with him, I feel I'm qualified to quickly sort through matchups that are good, bad, etc.
I refuse to give matchup numbers, especially since this game is very new. KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE ARE STRICTLY MY THOUGHTS AS OF THE GIVEN DATE IN THE TOPIC TITLE. I am not making any definitive statement as to how this character can perform theoretically, even though I believe I have a strong understanding of that.
With that said, I will simply sort between FUNDAMENTALLY UNWINNABLE, SLIGHT DISADVANTAGE, NEUTRAL, SLIGHT ADVANTAGE, AND FUNDAMENTALLY UNLOSEABLE.
Also, these all assume you're playing offline against people who are not terrible. Significant lag or bad players can completely change MUs.
FUNDAMENTALLY UNWINNABLE (The Dastardly Four)
Diddy
Sheik
Rosalina
Fox
SLIGHT DISADVANTAGE
Bowser (neutral in theory, just not in practice)
(Dark) Pit
ROB (real potential for neutral)
Falcon (is actually slightly in G&W's favor in practice, because 98% of people who play this character are bad with him)
Villager (fundamentally unwinnable with customs on)
Sonic
G&W (yes, you read that right. You have to play this MU completely differently)
NEUTRAL
Yoshi
Junior (MATCHUP TBD)
Link (potential for slight advantage, don't play against him that often)
Toon Link
ZSS
Palutena
Kirby
Pikachu (MATCHUP TBD)
Greninja (MATCHUP TBD)
Olimar (potential for slight advantage, people who are genuinely skilled with him are hard to find and I'm not used to dealing with competent pikmin management)
Pac Man
Mega Man
SLIGHT ADVANTAGE
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Wario
DK (neutral with customs on)
Zelda
Ganon
Marcina
Robin
DeDeDe
MK
Little Mac
Falco
Charizard
Lucario
Duck Hunt (MATCHUP TBD)
Ness
WFT
Dr. Mario
Shulk
Mewtwo
Mii Fighter
Mii Gunner (MATCHUP TBD)
Mii Swordsman (MATCHUP TBD)
FUNDAMENTALLY UNLOSEABLE
Samus (potential to move out of this tier given perfect prediction)
Ike
Jigglypuff
IMPORTANT NOTES
- Anything saying (MATCHUP TBD) is largely theoretical conjecture. i.e., Duck Hunt shouldn't really have a theoretically good kill method against G&W and has a recovery that G&W can really take advantage of, but I have not played the MU to know these things as absolute facts.
- G&W has a bad matchup against himself because if you are not educated on the flow of the matchup you will theoretically lose to a person with more MU experience; but yet, MU experience is insufficient to win. This is because the matchup dynamic is extremely different from those found in regular play, and revolves a lot around priority jousting, extremely hard reads, and unpredictability.
- I define "FUNDAMENTALLY x" as something where a mid level player with the weaker character can consistently defeat a highly skilled player.
- A lot of people are unaware of how bad G&W vs Pit actually is, and I'm sure this will be one of the bigger surprises. Pit has a lot of range and priority over the majority of G&W's moves and his side B is a theoretical nightmare for G&W. He is really good at resisting prediction. In summary, thank god he's not a good character.
- The dastardly four have several things in common: an ability to play in a completely reactive and non-predictive way for victory, throw combo resistance (weight, get-outs, etc.), and total theoretical resistance to edgeguarding.
- I know some lesser G&W players are going to wonder about DeDeDe's rating because he can seem so hard to kill. The thing is, he's very punishable in an offline environment. This isn't even about how G&W has tons of moves to push Gordos back, I mean that you can literally dash attack him OOS after every ftilt he does and tons of his moves let you attack him from the air. He is also absurdly easy to vortex when he is above you, and furthermore, he has an absurd weakness to throw combos in theory (dthrow > uair > uair > Up B LOL, perhaps double nair too).
- Yes, the ratings for Palutena and Kirby are correct.
- Little Mac is a very extreme MU where one player dominates the other at any given time. Properly played, G&W should win because of dash attack and bair and a theoretical ability to kill LM every time he's offstage.
Again, if you have any questions, ask me. Let's talk about this character and revive this dead forum.