Ulevo
Smash Master
SNAKE
GO!
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For snake, if you use the up b combo between 0-11%, you can almost guarantee a up tilt follow up.
Tested against level 9's on attack (and jump) and humans (so DI and air dodging included).
What happens is the snake will either air dodge or not do anything at all, but either way it sets up for an u-tilt.
You can follow this up with another u-tilt, SH u-air, or SH f-air (depending on how they DIed and if they jumped)... does ~50%.
The times when the opponent got out was when they SDI out of the dancing blade up combo or when they delayed their air dodge for the up tilt so only the back part of the up tilt hit and it didn't send them back up. It still did 25%.
Snake is a great juggle target like Junk just stated.
This is a match up where you will want to use that up throw to put him in a bad position. Juggle him, and if he comes down by air dodging onto the ground you can just grab him again.
Snakes will usually try to recover high over the stage and fastfall airdodge down to land. Don't punish him in the air, as it will only give him another upB and he will probably dodge your attacks anyways. Wait for him to land and punish accordingly.
Should he for some reason not recover high above the stage, a nair while he's still holding his Cypher will go through his super armor. As well, remember the grab trick at the ledge of any stage. If he's holding the cypher and you grab him without attacking or throwing, he will break free and slowing fall to his death, and there's nothing he can do about it
Unless he can use his down b recovery. I haven't faced many good Snakes, can someone confirm?
You should attack Snake while he is recovering high, if only to get damage on him.
As for gimping here is my opinion
Gimping
- High Recovery
Cypher: There isn't much you can do, if you can get out there fast enough you can hit him with a bair, fair, or uair. When he is coming down you can juggle him, just watch out for the C4. You then can **** him with uair, or if he is at a high enough percentage possible KO him with Dolphin Slash (or Uair).
C4: Snake will almost never use C4 on as high recovery as it would probably kill him.
- Low Recovery:
Cypher: You have many options here, it is extremely easy to spike Snake so if the situation allows it go for it. However if the situation does not allow it, fair is a great tool. So is nair, but you must hit him while he is ascending at a slower pace or his modified Super Armor will only allow you to get the first hit in. Bair works as well, it just takes more time to set up. Another interesting feature is that if you grab Snake out of his cypher and not do anything, he will be unable to use it until (or if) he hits the ground. If he is to far to grab, you can fsmash him out of it.
C4: Sometimes it is better to leave Snake alone if he does this, but if your skill level is high enough there are some thing you can do. You can go right next to him and allow the C4 to stick onto you, and then air dodge. Snake can reverse C4 to counter this though. You can go above him and try to spike him before the C4 goes off. Countering his C4 can be very effective. Also you can dolphin slash and sweet spot the edge to stage spike him.
Fair: Sometimes Snake will try to use this as they're recovering; just use fair, nair, uair, or counter to shut it down. It really doesn't cause much of a problem.
As for the Snake guide, I accidentally deleted part of it, but luckily it was stuff like CP's and Vids (the meat of the guide is still there). I asked if I should redo it, but not a whole lot of people said I should so I figured it was unnecessary.
I don't kno if he can down b recover after that tactic (which is a good one), but even if he can, at high damages that can kill him so that can be fine if you hav racked up enough damage before this grab, you should be fine, and you can just spike him rite bak down if he can down b recover.
Which tactic are you referring to, the cypher grab?
It's called 'counter'.
Learn to use it.
Seriously.
My cousin abuses Snake's broken ftilt, so I have to counter early because the punch is already in my face, though Snake's fist is 2 feet away.
Not too difficult, though.
Snake has stupid range, but you can get around it.
Fair a lot into almost everything.
Catch him offguard with a tipp'd Shield Breaker.
Counter as much as you can.
You see an attack, you counter.
You need as much damage as possible so you can knock that broken idiot into one less stock.
What I was trying to say in my previous post is, you're likely playing a noob snake.Oh, wait.
Well then what is that broken punch?
Whatever it is, use counter.
DO A COUNTERROLL!
I hate Snake, so I don't use him.
His games rocked, though.
I built a mini-Metal Gear out of Legos.
while we are at it, he should unstick the emblem lord's moment thread... it's had its run.Reposting some words from the other thread~
I don't have too much reliable knowledge about this match-up, but I'll try to bring some words for here, okii?
/offtopic: There isn't a report to moderator system here?
I've sent a PM to SamuraiPanda to unstick M2K thread and stick the Match Up Discussion, but he probably didn't saw.
I get the feeling you are facing sub-par snakes and meta knights.I didn't really mean it.
I use my counter ONLY when needed.
Everything else I spotdodge.
I know that Snake is formidable, but you guys act as if you're fighting God.
He's not that difficult.
Even Metaknight isn't that hard.
No, no you couldn't. You say you main Sonic and like foxes. I think that along with everything else you've said speaks volumes on your Marth.I have seen pro Snake fights, (I know I am going to get flamed for this) and I think my Marth could handle it.
Says the guy who admittedly hasn't played a good snake.Snake isn't that beastly.
This just shows how little you know.His boost smash isn't that great.
No, considering Snake's damage per attack it's about 8 or 9 hits until you're dead, compared to Marth's 15+.It's not like you get hit once you're dead.
Congratulations.OLIMAR can be a deadly force if used right. My friend is an excellent Olimar, but I still kill him.
You can show how much knowledge you have... which so far seems to be very little. The reason Emblem Lord is highly respected around here isn't cause he's the best Marth, it's cause he knows more about him than anyone else.This is useless. You can't describe skill on the internet.
I hear about TN tournaments... you may have to travel an hour or two to get there but that's way better than Cali so I'm not sure why you're using that as a john.So, the day I go to a tournament is the day we will see. Which, this probably won't happen since Jackson TN sucks.
Yep... seems that a Moderator action would be hell good.while we are at it, he should unstick the emblem lord's moment thread... it's had its run.
Acually isn't a matter of skill, but your arguments aren't solid enough to make a statement of anything about this match-up based in what you're saying.PCHU said:Right you are.
I am going up against sub-par Snakes and Metas.
It sucks.
But I have seen pro Snake fights, (I know I am going to get flamed for this) and I think my Marth could handle it.
Snake isn't that beastly.
His boost smash isn't that great.
It's not like you get hit once you're dead.
I haven't seen pro Metaknights, though.
I I should look some up.
But still.
OLIMAR can be a deadly force if used right.
My friend is an excellent Olimar, but I still kill him.
This is useless.
You can't describe skill on the internet.
Plus, I have nothing to record with besides a camera that isn't even mine.
So, the day I go to a tournament is the day we will see.
Which, this probably won't happen since Jackson TN sucks.
I don't see where it fails. If it's an hour away you travel one hour. You can only win by losing over and over again in the beginning.To Mr. Junky. Er.. JITT.
HOW THE CRAP AM I GOING TO PLAY IN A TOURNAMENT IF ALL OF THEM ARE ONE HOUR AWAY, AND HOW AM I GOING TO TRAIN IF THE GOOD PLAYERS ARE IN TOURNAMENTS, AND IN SAID TOURNAMENT, I GET OWNED?
You're logic fails.
Rage much? I'm not sure why it's my thick skulls fault that you can't communicate well. You're just showing your immaturity by resorting to weak insults.And thanks for pointing out how little knowledge I have.
I admit I don't know much, but I use what I do know to communicate, and it seems I can't get the point through your thick skull.
Please learn to read carefully. I never said everything is going to completely destroy Marth. I said Snake has a lot of things going for him. The matchup isn't worse than 6:4 Snake and I'm thinking it's more 5:5 now anyway.It's called moving out of the boost smash's way.
You act like everything is going to completely destroy Marth.
Genius.Marth is not Pichu.
This is a nitpick, but you don't have a main if you play all of those evenly. A main is someone you use most of the time, and generally you do the best relatively with that character. If you're playing someone you have no idea how they play then you would use your "main". If you would randomly pick between those 9 characters you listed, then you don't have a main. You just happen to play 9 characters randomly.I main Fox.
And Marth.
And Sonic.
And Lucario.
And Ness, Lucas, Ike, Falco AND WOLF.
This would clear up a lot.Maybe I will post a fight on youtube.
Figures. Asking always verifies things. So yay.@ your last question Viet..
I think most of Marth's moves outrange Snake except for the 2nd hit of the ftilt. 2nd hit > all
I'm not overly passive. Maybe I should have said that I don't rush in trying to do Fair chains and other irrational things without thinking it over first. If there's an opening, **** right I'll go for it. My sadistic self would never let openings go to waste. =/First of all, play aggressive whenever you have an opening against anyone, not just snake. All top players play hard. Playing hard minimizes guessing what you're opponent is going to do. This is not to be confused with spamming everything. Know your limits.
Oh and your thing about Olimar. Olimar's a pain if you don't know his spacing because its really deceptive. Once you get it down and know how to avoid getting suckered by his rainbow bright crap, it shouldn't be that hard of a matchup. Spacing spacing spacing.
Boss battle, nao.*raises eyebrow
Nobody is taking my emo thread down.
How dare you conspire against me!!!!!!!
We're not removing it El, we're just... Misplacing it temporarily.*raises eyebrow
Nobody is taking my emo thread down.
How dare you conspire against me!!!!!!!