Match-Up Discussion #5! King Dedede

[En.Ee.Oh]

His aerials aren't disjointed, bair anyway.

But know that his aerials have lag after them that you can punish. Not speaking of landing lag.

LMFAO


steel i love you for posting things i tell you for the general comm

<3

 

[Steel]

no
no i told u that nd u no it

 

[_Kadaj_]

Lol steel you do say things sometimes that sound just like Neo :laugh

Like what you told that one guy about dash dancing lol

 

[Steel]

Hm?

"dash dancing is bad in brawl, not to mention it looks ugly and forced

don't fox trot, just dash."

just stating a fact, it does look ugly and forced >_> how does it sound like NEO?

 

[Nightshine]

You know I never really knew exactly what fox trotting does for you it doesn't seem all that helpful.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Lol steel that's exactly what he said in that other thread a couple months ago

 

[Steel]

>_>

I'm supposed to remember a few months ago?

<_<

*continues looking at arisa's myspace

 

[CO18]

Dedede vs Marth is even :]

You guys have already made all the points.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Lol not really

Also everytime I see you post I can't help but to think about that chick in your signature
I'm so still going to tokyo this summer

 

[Steel]

im debating putting this at 60:40 d3

/discuss

 

[feardragon64]

>> Usually when you do something like that you're supposed to explain why. The burden of proof is with the person initiating the changes.

But then again that is a very steel-esque post....

I can't decide if I want you to correct it anymore. Just explain why in a separate post.

 

[Shaya]

It's true I find D3 more problematic than Snake while using Marth...

 

[Remzi]

Hmmm, any reason for the change?

I have no complaints of course, I've thought it was 60-40 all along. Just wondering if theres anything in particular that made you change your mind...

 

[Steel]

d3's gay as **** thats why

 

[feardragon64]

d3's gay as **** thats why

So is Ricky Martin but I think I'd win in a fist fight.

I personally call it 55:45 DDD. Marth has the tools to win this....its just that DDD's tools are so much ****in easier to use....

 

[Remzi]

So is Ricky Martin but I think I'd win in a fist fight.

I personally call it 55:45 DDD. Marth has the tools to win this....its just that DDD's tools are so much ****in easier to use....

I still definitely see it as 60:40. It is very difficult to get in through Dedede's camp. Do the waddle dees do devestating damage or knockback? No. Do they keep you out and limit your options? Yes. Ok, now that you've gotten through his waddle dees and taken a bit of damage, you need to get into your optimal spacing range. This is also far from an easy task. You may get bair'd, you may get ftiltd. Now you're at the right spacing. You control him for a bit, then you get grabbed. He chain grabs you to the edge, fthrows you, and proceeds to attack you off stage, possibly gimping you.

**** dedede *sigh*

 

[VietGeek]

D3 eats his own children and wears pink. He also rubs his child that he ate prior to his victory while its brethren look in disgust.

Get *****.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Just a question, if you do decide to change the match-up numbers. Are we then saying that the D3 match-up is as hard as the MK match-up?

Not really for or against, just asking.

 

[Remzi]

We have MK vs Marth at 65:35 right? If not who the hell changed it and why? I'm still getting ***** by Meta >_>

 

[Steel]

Obviously I changed it when I discussed it with a few people.

Fear how many good Dedede's have you played? We're at the point where we don't have to rely on pure theory for match up numbers.

 

[Lirok]

55:45 D3 sounds right. Break the camp to take instant control and if you space right it will be hard for them to take it back. Breaking it is hard though if they know what they are doing.

65:35 MK at least. This doesnt really need explaining, nor does the official matchup need to be changed, everyone knows MK is marths biggest problem.

 

[Remzi]

65:35 MK at least. This doesnt really need explaining, nor does the official matchup need to be changed, everyone knows MK is marths biggest problem.

Hmm, it seems like Steel changed it to 60:40.

I disagree with that on so many levels. It's 65:35 no doubt. And I will debate to the death to prove it.

 

[Lirok]

Hmm, it seems like Steel changed it to 60:40.

I disagree with that on so many levels. It's 65:35 no doubt. And I will debate to the death to prove it.

normal competitive marth vs normal competitive MK is prob 60:40

pro MK (cough m2k cough lol) vs pro marth is prob 65:35

but either 60 or 65, MK has a clear advantage and you all should focus on that matchup the most

 

[Emblem Lord]

What's to focus on?

Switch to Snake.

Done.

 

[Remzi]

What's to focus on?

switch to Snake.

Done.

I'm too faithful to switch to a better character.

 

[feardragon64]

Obviously I changed it when I discussed it with a few people.

Fear how many good Dedede's have you played? We're at the point where we don't have to rely on pure theory for match up numbers.

I'm stuck on theory since I've fought like 1 good DDD and 0 really good DDD's. Forgive me for that. =\

 

[∫unk]

ddd deals 40% off a grab and can **** marth up off the stage and powershield u-tilt isn't that hard to do for the kill

meanwhile marth can do the same thing to ddd off stage and has a good time juggling him after his set up move but landing the setup move (d-tilt f-air throw) is harder and marth has a harder time killing

 

[Pierce7d]

Marth plays a better pressure and punish game, and he still has the tipper factor. It's 55:45 D3 IMcurrentO. Not quite as hard as Snake or MK. Bout the same difficulty as DK IMO.

 

[∫unk]

Are you saying Bowser is 45:55 for Marth?

 

[Pierce7d]

I editted. Was thinking about Bowser in my mind (And yes, I do think it's that match-up)

But meant to put DK.

 

[∫unk]

i'm confused so you think...

55 dk: 45 marth
55 bowser: 45 marth

pierce you just have to be extra campy with dk when you get to around 80% so they can't land the kill move on you what are they going to do if you play patient and safe

 

[Shaya]

Sigh.

Dedede:
Great range (ftilt, grab, bair, etc etc etc)
Reliable Kill moves (utilt, dsmash, fthrow, bthrow)
Damage Racking (Chain grab, bthrow)
Great Gimping (bair, bair, bair)
Great Weight (4th!)

Marth:
'Similar' but overall FASTER ranged moves
That huge fatass likes the nair, shieldbreakers, dies at about 140% to untippered dsmash
EQUAL OR SLIGHTLY WORSE DAMAGE RACKING CAPABILITIES (juggling, dancing blade, blah)
Harder to gimp but we can try and rack up damage ^^
GREATEST WEIGHT (LIKE LAST)

Seriously, not trying to repeat stuff. But what scares us the most while vsing D3? Chain grab, his weight, and his KILLS. So instead of an ftilt like Snake, he just has the CG to cover him (a reasonably worthy comparison).

Stage coverage is good for Marth on Battlefield, Lylat, Smashville; while Yoshi's and FD can be troublesome.
Walking out of the CG means they have to move further, we do have dolphin slash to a degree, makes for great love on Battlefield...

We can keep the **** going on D3 to hopefully cover the weight difference, us dying at about 105% and him at the 140%. Smaller the boundaries the better. Bigger boundaries are torture (FD... Norfair...)

His killing is his gimping, and yes he can do that quite well from a cg, or from any throw most of the time. He also has an extremely dangerous utilt for inbetween perfect shielding and that crap.

While his ftilt outranges us, our poking is absoloutely superb in comparison. This isn't Snake where that deadly ftilt outranges our moves, his ftilt is a poke/spacer, a weak one at that. Dtilt will hold him down, as long as we're out of his shield grab range he doesn't have many great options.

Anyway, while it could be just as 'hard' as metaknight (really), I don't see why we need to change it from 55:45...

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

what do you do when D3 camps you the entire match??

 

[Doomblaze]

I played Lain's D3 with marth not too long ago and i got my *** handed to me really badly (Hes the best one in our area by FAR)

Up-B out of shield on FD will get you killed if they shield it because it gives them time to charge their down B almost all the way, which HURTS and kills at really low %.

Granted, i have almost no match up experience VS D3 since none of the people i play against are any challenge to me, so that was probably a big part of it.

Just pointing out that FD is something you probably want to ban and up-B out of shield is generally a bad idea, especially when the D3 is playing defensively.

I think 40-60 makes sense, if the D3 knows how to chaingrab properly and punish, you're screwed

 

[BacklashMarth]

Um, approach? If it worked then all D3 would do it yanno. I see your point and all but camping isnt a matchbreaker for marth. As a great noob pwner once said, "Just because you chose a top tier character, doesnt mean you are good. It just means you are more annoying to kill."

 

[Pr0phetic]

If you stayed in the right spot it wouldn't be safe to camp anyway.

 

[Steel]

if the d3 plays as gay and campy as possible this is pretty 40-60...

 

[Xisin]

i honestly dont see how this match up could 40-60... dedede is no shape or form is as troublesome as mk (which currently is the only match up we have at 40-60)

You can actually CP against this guy which is a huge bonus compared to mk, also as shaya said his f-tilt is more of an annoyance than it is anything. his recovery is very harrasable (slow floaty fat penguin + his up b can be countered up smashed or fsmashed. and if he goes for the ledge and you can see when he does.. ledge hog.) he can dededecide you but eh play smart and dont edgeguard him as much when you're fresh a stock and hes about to die. the only thing that actually scares me about dedede is his chain grab and his gordos.. since those suckers come out at the worst momments it seems :/

I've always thought the match was 50/50 :/ so 40/60 i 100% disagree with.

 

[fox219]

dedede has slow kill moves. all of the dedede's I've faced SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a strategy would be to make your strategy as the game goes along. Opponents won't expect it!

 

[fox219]

i honestly dont see how this match up could 40-60... dedede is no shape or form is as troublesome as mk (which currently is the only match up we have at 40-60)

You can actually CP against this guy which is a huge bonus compared to mk, also as shaya said his f-tilt is more of an annoyance than it is anything. his recovery is very harrasable (slow floaty fat penguin + his up b can be countered up smashed or fsmashed. and if he goes for the ledge and you can see when he does.. ledge hog.) he can dededecide you but eh play smart and dont edgeguard him as much when you're fresh a stock and hes about to die. the only thing that actually scares me about dedede is his chain grab and his gordos.. since those suckers come out at the worst momments it seems :/

I've always thought the match was 50/50 :/ so 40/60 i 100% disagree with.

w00t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! agreed