Guys, my Puff is improving a lot, but I get rests way too much. Whenever I play against someone really experienced in the MU so he knows how to avoid the rest stuff well, I get owned hard. Should I just try to play some friendlies without using rest at all to become better on the general?
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Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff
- Thread starter Mahone
- Start date
Mahone
Smash Champion
ya, i think thats a really good idea
idea
Smash Master
do that, but also do some friendlies where you do almost nothing but try to rest the good people. 'cause...obviously you still can. you just don't know how yet. but don't do too many like that 'cause it will probably piss people off <_<
what matchup anyway? i could just tell you what normally works lol
what matchup anyway? i could just tell you what normally works lol
Massive
Smash Champion
This is funny, I have the exact opposite problem.
Every other aspect of my game is excellent, but my rests very, very rarely connect. It's gotten to the point where I rarely even try to rest because I seem to miss nearly every time.
It's probably mostly that the KC crew is so used to getting rested out of awful stuff that they've all developed anti-rest strategies I am completely unaware of or unable to counter.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Specifics plz
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Mahone stfu and stop being a scrub.
Republican0fHeaven
Smash Ace
oh dang regional drama.
And Idea I saw that vid vs Raynex before I saw that you posted it. Props, very close indeed.
Mahone I also like that update idea for this thread. I am extremely excited
that we aren't using Mango's old thread cause i've read over that too much and it doesn't cover the MUs nearly as in depth as I'd like. good shiz
Tekk... eagerly awaiting your advice/tricks against falcon (no pressure). I always forget what im supposed to do. It'll be nice to see alot of the answers in the same place.
And Idea I saw that vid vs Raynex before I saw that you posted it. Props, very close indeed.
Mahone I also like that update idea for this thread. I am extremely excited
that we aren't using Mango's old thread cause i've read over that too much and it doesn't cover the MUs nearly as in depth as I'd like. good shizTekk... eagerly awaiting your advice/tricks against falcon (no pressure). I always forget what im supposed to do. It'll be nice to see alot of the answers in the same place.
Tekk
Smash Lord
Sorry for taking so long, I'm kind of overworked atm + I'm feeling really lazy lol.
I'll try to write something tomorrow.
I'll try to write something tomorrow.
Wait... What chat are you talking about ?
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
I'm wavedashing after aerials a lot more, and using WDs in general for better movement, and it's really, really good. I like it a lot. I like fade-away nairs a lot, too. Nair > fsmash is so sexy (no, I'm not a Mango fanboy, but it's really good for spacing tricks on shield, imo). And combos in general.
idea
Smash Master
oh, one of peef's state of the game things a while ago.
honestly though, don't quote me on that. there are just so few of us i really don't know how to tell. like velynn from the midwest is pretty good too, but i doubt anyone besides me here knows who that is.
yesterday in draft crews i learned that if you consistently mess up wavedashing back after aerials fighting Unknown is pretty much impossible =/
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
I know Velynn. I saw him at The Big House. Yeah, he looks pretty sharp and promising, as do a lot of MW players right now.
RyeJew
Smash Journeyman
<< Velynn fanboy.
He signed my controller and messed me up in puff dittos while I was blazed. <3
King5280
Smash Journeyman
velynn is really good. a fellow michigander.
Republican0fHeaven
Smash Ace
Yeah Velynn was impressive at The Big House. Ever since then I have been using upB to sweetspot the ledge a lot more.
I was watching Duck do incredibly well against Lovage and S2J and Velynn was standing nearby and was like "pshh I can beat duck" but I guess its a MU thing
MW got a lot better recently
Velynn vs Raynex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axRdy2f04jA
Velynn vs Kels (almost a year ago): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUhIhbD7yrM
I was watching Duck do incredibly well against Lovage and S2J and Velynn was standing nearby and was like "pshh I can beat duck" but I guess its a MU thing
MW got a lot better recently
Velynn vs Raynex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axRdy2f04jA
Velynn vs Kels (almost a year ago): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUhIhbD7yrM
idea
Smash Master
haha, i hope that's not the first place you saw that...up-b edgehog is like the oldest jiggs trick in the book. it's great when you go out to fair someone and maybe you change your mind don't really have time to turn around. just make sure you do it so you never go above the edge, otherwise you're just asking for an fsmash or whatever.
agreed
Prince_Abu
Smash Lord
yo prince abu is the best puff
Mahone
Smash Champion
I agree, only cuz your avatar is too good
Manatee
Smash Apprentice
Who are your favorite Puffs to watch?
Kaizer
Smash Journeyman
i don't really like watching puff videos that often, they are too slow for my 21th century hyperactivity-state of pleasurehunting.
hbox have some good videos tho, basically watching the spacing and his amazing drillgrabmoves. just really smart puffs, or puffs that just goes all at it. what's most interesting are seeing how momentum appears, and how it disappears, and it feels like that's really an essential part of playing puff, so that's what i'm trying to watch out for in vids. just seeing puffs that don't shieldgrab, but roll away from shield-pressure, stuff like that is also pretty interesting. how they get away from a pressured position and game state, and can transform that game state to it's own advantage. really something that makes or breaks a game i think.
also, tekk has some good rests. i also really like idea when he got the momentum. there's some really weird combos he does, which is pretty cool.
hbox have some good videos tho, basically watching the spacing and his amazing drillgrabmoves. just really smart puffs, or puffs that just goes all at it. what's most interesting are seeing how momentum appears, and how it disappears, and it feels like that's really an essential part of playing puff, so that's what i'm trying to watch out for in vids. just seeing puffs that don't shieldgrab, but roll away from shield-pressure, stuff like that is also pretty interesting. how they get away from a pressured position and game state, and can transform that game state to it's own advantage. really something that makes or breaks a game i think.
also, tekk has some good rests. i also really like idea when he got the momentum. there's some really weird combos he does, which is pretty cool.
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
inb4 hungrybox
Edit:
d'aww
Edit:
d'aww
Bing
Smash Master
King and Idea. King because he's ****ing King and rests like a boss.
Idea because he's my homie and his Puff is actually entertaining to watch(And get 3 stocked in Puff dittos)
Idea because he's my homie and his Puff is actually entertaining to watch(And get 3 stocked in Puff dittos)
idea
Smash Master
that's easy, King.
Tekk
Smash Lord
FUNNY FALCON
Tekk percentage: 99-1 Puff wins
Actual percentage: 60-40 Puff wins
Bad falcons will make this matchup seem like a free win for Puff, but actually it's kinda tricky. Falcon is probably the character that punishes puff the hardest (with fox), but luckily he also suffers really disadvantaging flaws.
Your neutral position in this matchup should be crouching/WDing, because jumping around is pretty bad against falcon, since all he is looking for is an opportunity to land a grab or a mid% upair on you.
Remember this: once falcon catches you, he WON'T let you go. If you start to get combo'd, be sure do DI/SDI away as hard as you can, and to airdodge whenever he misses a timing. A good way not to get punished on your shffls is to wavedash away whenever you touch the ground.
A routine that works well for me is: SH nair=>fade back=>WD away. This way, if falcon tries to stomp you out of shield, you'll get a free grab.
About falcon's oos options: good falcons will often bait you with their shield and stomp you on your grab (especially if you're in their back). SH Uair beats that.
Falcon is easy to grab if you condition him to. spamming shffl naifs and bairs is a good way to do that. Then, when you get a grab, upthrow is the best option at low and mid%, and it leads to an easy upair rest if falcon doesn't DI (and a very few actually do). At high%, Fthrow is okay and Dthrow can work, on the ledge (if they DI inward you get a free fair/bair).
Falcon's most exploitableweakness in this matchup is his fastfalness+his weight… The guy's a real sandbag, and he's dead whenever you land an upair on him at mid%, since it leads to puff's every other move.
Some possible oos rests: on falcon's sideB, fsmash, downB
possible crouch rests: on falcon's jab, low% knee, upsmash…
Resting falcon after he Dthrows you is a matter of reaction; with practice you'll see when his knee isn't safe. Tip: if he tries to knee you with his thigh hitbox, you can rest him. If he tries to stomp you, rest.
Crouch is realllyyyyyy good in this matchup as well: always crouch when you land in front of him: bad falcons will try to grab you which is a free rest/grab, other falcons will try to stomp you oos (and good ones will mix it up, lol).
Nair is my favorite move in this matchup: almost always leads to a grab when it connects at low%, good grab bait and pressure tool: a lot of falcons will roll when you try to pressure them, and with puff's great air mobility, you can hit them with a weak air, fade back and punish the roll.
A trick of mine that works well on falcon (as well on fox/falco): on a platform stage, when you get to uthrow him onto a plaform, follow him, waveland then react to his techroll (which is very slow) with another grab/fsmash to send him offstage.
About edgeguarding falcon: Be patient. Don't chase him offstage. Wait for him to try to recover, then punish with a bair that'll send him a bit further. If he tries to recover from below the edge, Dsmash is a really good option, since this move is so hard to tech. If the falcon often goes for a sweetspotted upB below the edge, go for that good ol' edgehog, and if you misread his upB and he does make it to the ledge, that edgehop dair => grab hbox does will give you another chance. I usually just grab the edge whenever I send him offstage and react to his recovery.
Positives in the Matchup:
-falcon is the easiest character to combo, especially from a mid% upair
-he can't do much when you pressure him
-grabs often put him in a really bad situation
-bad recovery vs best edgeguarder in the game
-pretty easy to rest if you have good reaction
-he's scared of your crouch
Negatives in the Matchup:
-It's really hard to escape once he lands his hands or feet on you
-fullhopping is bad vs him, will get you upair'd a lot
-you die at 90% max on big stages, watch for that spaced knee when you're at high%
-falcon is kind of hard to catch when he's on his dashdance routine
LEVELS TO COUNTERPICK:
Fountain of Dreams - falcon hates this stage, and puff loves it. But it'll get banned anyway
Dreamland - you can tank pretty well here, and falcon doesn't benefit from this as much as you do i.e. the stage being wide doesn't prevent him from getting edgeguarded.
LEVELS TO BAN:
Pokemon Stadium: biggest stage, plenty of room for falcon to run…
Final Destination: Same as PS, except the stage doesn't transform.
Yoshi's Story (?): Kind of a wild card; falcon doesn't have a lot of space, but a knee will kill you at 55%
Other stages are pretty neutral to me.
There it is; sorry for my poor/dull english lol.
Tekk percentage: 99-1 Puff wins
Actual percentage: 60-40 Puff wins
Bad falcons will make this matchup seem like a free win for Puff, but actually it's kinda tricky. Falcon is probably the character that punishes puff the hardest (with fox), but luckily he also suffers really disadvantaging flaws.
Your neutral position in this matchup should be crouching/WDing, because jumping around is pretty bad against falcon, since all he is looking for is an opportunity to land a grab or a mid% upair on you.
Remember this: once falcon catches you, he WON'T let you go. If you start to get combo'd, be sure do DI/SDI away as hard as you can, and to airdodge whenever he misses a timing. A good way not to get punished on your shffls is to wavedash away whenever you touch the ground.
A routine that works well for me is: SH nair=>fade back=>WD away. This way, if falcon tries to stomp you out of shield, you'll get a free grab.
About falcon's oos options: good falcons will often bait you with their shield and stomp you on your grab (especially if you're in their back). SH Uair beats that.
Falcon is easy to grab if you condition him to. spamming shffl naifs and bairs is a good way to do that. Then, when you get a grab, upthrow is the best option at low and mid%, and it leads to an easy upair rest if falcon doesn't DI (and a very few actually do). At high%, Fthrow is okay and Dthrow can work, on the ledge (if they DI inward you get a free fair/bair).
Falcon's most exploitableweakness in this matchup is his fastfalness+his weight… The guy's a real sandbag, and he's dead whenever you land an upair on him at mid%, since it leads to puff's every other move.
Some possible oos rests: on falcon's sideB, fsmash, downB
possible crouch rests: on falcon's jab, low% knee, upsmash…
Resting falcon after he Dthrows you is a matter of reaction; with practice you'll see when his knee isn't safe. Tip: if he tries to knee you with his thigh hitbox, you can rest him. If he tries to stomp you, rest.
Crouch is realllyyyyyy good in this matchup as well: always crouch when you land in front of him: bad falcons will try to grab you which is a free rest/grab, other falcons will try to stomp you oos (and good ones will mix it up, lol).
Nair is my favorite move in this matchup: almost always leads to a grab when it connects at low%, good grab bait and pressure tool: a lot of falcons will roll when you try to pressure them, and with puff's great air mobility, you can hit them with a weak air, fade back and punish the roll.
A trick of mine that works well on falcon (as well on fox/falco): on a platform stage, when you get to uthrow him onto a plaform, follow him, waveland then react to his techroll (which is very slow) with another grab/fsmash to send him offstage.
About edgeguarding falcon: Be patient. Don't chase him offstage. Wait for him to try to recover, then punish with a bair that'll send him a bit further. If he tries to recover from below the edge, Dsmash is a really good option, since this move is so hard to tech. If the falcon often goes for a sweetspotted upB below the edge, go for that good ol' edgehog, and if you misread his upB and he does make it to the ledge, that edgehop dair => grab hbox does will give you another chance. I usually just grab the edge whenever I send him offstage and react to his recovery.
Positives in the Matchup:
-falcon is the easiest character to combo, especially from a mid% upair
-he can't do much when you pressure him
-grabs often put him in a really bad situation
-bad recovery vs best edgeguarder in the game
-pretty easy to rest if you have good reaction
-he's scared of your crouch
Negatives in the Matchup:
-It's really hard to escape once he lands his hands or feet on you
-fullhopping is bad vs him, will get you upair'd a lot
-you die at 90% max on big stages, watch for that spaced knee when you're at high%
-falcon is kind of hard to catch when he's on his dashdance routine
LEVELS TO COUNTERPICK:
Fountain of Dreams - falcon hates this stage, and puff loves it. But it'll get banned anyway
Dreamland - you can tank pretty well here, and falcon doesn't benefit from this as much as you do i.e. the stage being wide doesn't prevent him from getting edgeguarded.
LEVELS TO BAN:
Pokemon Stadium: biggest stage, plenty of room for falcon to run…
Final Destination: Same as PS, except the stage doesn't transform.
Yoshi's Story (?): Kind of a wild card; falcon doesn't have a lot of space, but a knee will kill you at 55%
Other stages are pretty neutral to me.
There it is; sorry for my poor/dull english lol.
Mahone
Smash Champion
edit: I updated the thread...
good stuff tekk
good stuff tekk
boomrested
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2011
- Messages
- 215
Great post Tekk, really helpful.
Massive
Smash Champion
Nice info, as someone who plays the most annoying falcons ever on a pretty regular basis let me add one thing:
Falcon is very easy to rest when he has to land on-stage, especially when he's too far down to get a platform. It works especially well on FD and Dreamland 64.
Like all rest KOs, be wary of your damage.
If your % is too high (and they know to DI low for fast KO) they will just trade stock with you.
Also, from my puff experiences with Darkrain and Jace, DO NOT COUNTER-PICK DREAMLAND. You will die at around the same %s you would at FD or FoD and they will have room to run around. You do not want Falcons to run around.
Falcon is very easy to rest when he has to land on-stage, especially when he's too far down to get a platform. It works especially well on FD and Dreamland 64.
Like all rest KOs, be wary of your damage.
If your % is too high (and they know to DI low for fast KO) they will just trade stock with you.
Also, from my puff experiences with Darkrain and Jace, DO NOT COUNTER-PICK DREAMLAND. You will die at around the same %s you would at FD or FoD and they will have room to run around. You do not want Falcons to run around.
King5280
Smash Journeyman
good **** tekk
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
it's probably usually better to bair them back off stage and finish your edgeguard so you dont get reverse killed. if they go in too deep to do this you can probably figure that out enough in advance to land and fsmash. if they're at too low % to get knocked back off stage by a bair then it's useful but i think it's generally suboptimal.
idea
Smash Master
nice guide 
although if you grab falcon in the middle of a platform stage it's often better to dthrow, then you don't even give them the chance to DI that upair. they either DI to a platform, tech predictably and die, or don't DI it and rest directly combos out of the throw.
on FD though the upthrow thing would be better for sure.
also it occurred to me the other day that you can easily edgeguard falcon on FD with rollout. in my mind's eye it always bounces you back on stage after hitting him and should be strong enough to kill at pretty low percents. too bad i don't have a falcon main to practice this stuff with.
PS: imo spacies have better edgeguarding than jiggs. except against sheik. and marth is definitely better at edgeguarding spacies than jiggs.
although if you grab falcon in the middle of a platform stage it's often better to dthrow, then you don't even give them the chance to DI that upair. they either DI to a platform, tech predictably and die, or don't DI it and rest directly combos out of the throw.on FD though the upthrow thing would be better for sure.
also it occurred to me the other day that you can easily edgeguard falcon on FD with rollout. in my mind's eye it always bounces you back on stage after hitting him and should be strong enough to kill at pretty low percents. too bad i don't have a falcon main to practice this stuff with.
PS: imo spacies have better edgeguarding than jiggs. except against sheik. and marth is definitely better at edgeguarding spacies than jiggs.
Mahone
Smash Champion
they can just sweetspot upb and avoid rollout... why would they upb high if they see you charging rollout?
idea
Smash Master
mm good point, so you would have to wait till they up-b before you start charging it or at least are at a distance where they can't recover low anymore. falcons do usually recover high though.
X17the17th
Smash Cadet
Great post Tekk, really helpful.
Republican0fHeaven
Smash Ace
Good stuff Tekk! and your english was fine.
Is it possible to rest a falcon that is stomping your shield? Uair OOS can beat it, but do you have enough time to full hop rest... maybe if you predict another stomp? (shield stun might prevent this, havent seen it done before)
It'd be really cool if the guides were continually updated and had information for each mu on each stage... but that's a huge committment.
Also I saw 2 pretty cool things today watching either Velynn or Abu (some puff from MI): When fighting marth... if you take him offstage and cant follow with bairs and find yourself on the ledge and him upBing from below (which could potentially hit you) back on stage, try doing the quick get up as he upBs through you and immediately prepare to wd backwards (in case he falls for the ledge). If he starts to move backwards, take ledge. Otherwise he is falling right onto you for a rest. This is better than trying to rest from the ledge because 1. He might hit you with the upB if you get there too early and lose invincibility and 2. you're already onstage and its easier/faster to line up the rest.
The second thing I saw was when puff is making falcon recover from below stage and is on the ledge (same situation as with Marth). I've seen even the best puff's miss a rest from ledge cause you gotta be quick and precise. Furthermore, I've seen puffs jump from the ledge thinking to rest and falcons just take it (rarely). What this puff did was do the upB ledge stall at a time when jumping for a rest may have been too late but the falcon could surely not slide back to the ledge because the puff already saw him DI toward the stage. Since the falcon recovered from really low and the sing hitbox is out for a few frames (i think?) rather than one like rest, it put falcon to sleep and allowed the puff to guarantee a rest. Plus this extra time allowed him to rest from the direction he wanted. Because coming from the inside of the stage gives a smaller percentage of opponent survival at low percent.
Pretty cool. Im sure its flawed in some, way. But unique nonetheless.
Is it possible to rest a falcon that is stomping your shield? Uair OOS can beat it, but do you have enough time to full hop rest... maybe if you predict another stomp? (shield stun might prevent this, havent seen it done before)
It'd be really cool if the guides were continually updated and had information for each mu on each stage... but that's a huge committment.
Also I saw 2 pretty cool things today watching either Velynn or Abu (some puff from MI): When fighting marth... if you take him offstage and cant follow with bairs and find yourself on the ledge and him upBing from below (which could potentially hit you) back on stage, try doing the quick get up as he upBs through you and immediately prepare to wd backwards (in case he falls for the ledge). If he starts to move backwards, take ledge. Otherwise he is falling right onto you for a rest. This is better than trying to rest from the ledge because 1. He might hit you with the upB if you get there too early and lose invincibility and 2. you're already onstage and its easier/faster to line up the rest.
The second thing I saw was when puff is making falcon recover from below stage and is on the ledge (same situation as with Marth). I've seen even the best puff's miss a rest from ledge cause you gotta be quick and precise. Furthermore, I've seen puffs jump from the ledge thinking to rest and falcons just take it (rarely). What this puff did was do the upB ledge stall at a time when jumping for a rest may have been too late but the falcon could surely not slide back to the ledge because the puff already saw him DI toward the stage. Since the falcon recovered from really low and the sing hitbox is out for a few frames (i think?) rather than one like rest, it put falcon to sleep and allowed the puff to guarantee a rest. Plus this extra time allowed him to rest from the direction he wanted. Because coming from the inside of the stage gives a smaller percentage of opponent survival at low percent.
Pretty cool. Im sure its flawed in some, way. But unique nonetheless.
Habefiet
Smash Journeyman
Are there general situations where Nair is most useful? I'm staggeringly bad at using it at all for some reason. I've got a total mental block on it. I just always find myself using any other aerial instead. So basically I'm wondering if there's a good rule of thumb on its usage or if it really is more reaction-based and I just need to throw it out there infinitely more to figure out when it is useful for me.
Also (weird question) does anyone know much about the Kirby match-up? One of the better players in my area mains Kirby, and I don't even know the general idea of how to go about it. I've realized that I don't want to get hit by his up-air, but that's about it. I've only played with him once and it was a long time ago, but there's always a chance of running into him in the bracket at a future local tournament, and I want to at least be giving him a run for it rather than just looking confused. I'm not looking for a full match-up writeup or anything, just a couple pointers.
Thanks to all the people giving advice in this thread. It does not go unnoticed or unappreciated.
Also (weird question) does anyone know much about the Kirby match-up? One of the better players in my area mains Kirby, and I don't even know the general idea of how to go about it. I've realized that I don't want to get hit by his up-air, but that's about it. I've only played with him once and it was a long time ago, but there's always a chance of running into him in the bracket at a future local tournament, and I want to at least be giving him a run for it rather than just looking confused. I'm not looking for a full match-up writeup or anything, just a couple pointers.
Thanks to all the people giving advice in this thread. It does not go unnoticed or unappreciated.
idea
Smash Master
one of the best ways to edgeguard marth is to go right down after him with fairs. marths like to recover low and there's really not much risk unless you miss by a lot and let him take the edge. if you just kind of follow him and stay within his recovery trajectory there's not a whole lot he can do about it. likely he'll get scared and try to go even lower, which just makes him easier to kill. it's like a game of chicken, except you have six jumps.
if they get used to you doing this they will probably try to side-b or fair you during their recovery. if they jump, that probably means they want to fair; do anything quickly to trade with it and be in a favourable position. if they side-b they definitely aren't going to jump first, so they're going to have to float toward you in a straight line, in which case you can hit them first. sometimes they will fall in a straight line and fair you anyway, if you just happen to be in range of it...pretty sure you can time fair to at least trade with if not beat both this and side-b, no matter which one they pick.
it seems scary to go so far offstage, but really, what's he gonna do, dair you? that kills him too. up-b you with the strong part? that's your fault for being directly on top of him, which is horrible spacing for any aerial
you can also go to the space behind him and pound through his up-b so he gets sent backward. or hit him with fair or bair against the stage and hope he doesn't tech. it's probably hard to tech that since he has to account for your choice of move/timing as well as his own up-b. pound is definitely better if they've already used their jump though. this is safer than the above stuff but tends to give him more chances to recover.
if he recovers high, get as close to him as possible while staying outside of side-b range; marths often side-b to float slower and farther onstage when they recover high, so just wait for one and bair or whatever in its lag. if he's at high enough % you could just upair too.
basically when marth's recovering you should chase him around and not be afraid to trade moves with him.
PS. of course you can also grab the edge, force him onstage and rest. but marths seem to do everything they can to avoid that, understandably. ^ are some other options.
edit: i don't remember what provoked this lol
if they get used to you doing this they will probably try to side-b or fair you during their recovery. if they jump, that probably means they want to fair; do anything quickly to trade with it and be in a favourable position. if they side-b they definitely aren't going to jump first, so they're going to have to float toward you in a straight line, in which case you can hit them first. sometimes they will fall in a straight line and fair you anyway, if you just happen to be in range of it...pretty sure you can time fair to at least trade with if not beat both this and side-b, no matter which one they pick.
it seems scary to go so far offstage, but really, what's he gonna do, dair you? that kills him too. up-b you with the strong part? that's your fault for being directly on top of him, which is horrible spacing for any aerial
you can also go to the space behind him and pound through his up-b so he gets sent backward. or hit him with fair or bair against the stage and hope he doesn't tech. it's probably hard to tech that since he has to account for your choice of move/timing as well as his own up-b. pound is definitely better if they've already used their jump though. this is safer than the above stuff but tends to give him more chances to recover.
if he recovers high, get as close to him as possible while staying outside of side-b range; marths often side-b to float slower and farther onstage when they recover high, so just wait for one and bair or whatever in its lag. if he's at high enough % you could just upair too.
basically when marth's recovering you should chase him around and not be afraid to trade moves with him.
PS. of course you can also grab the edge, force him onstage and rest. but marths seem to do everything they can to avoid that, understandably. ^ are some other options.
edit: i don't remember what provoked this lol
Tekk
Smash Lord
Idea is an advice machine.
Massive
Smash Champion
Triple-R right?
Kirby is my ghetto secondary, and I've actually played both sides of this match many times (I've played Triple R's a few times and BunBun's several times).
Kirby is actually not that terrible vs Jiggs (as far as kirby's awful roster of matchups goes anyway). He can duck under pretty much all of jigglypuff's approach tactics, and utilt > uair works surprisingly well if you're even around the general area above and behind (or slightly in front) of him.
This matchup can be really long and annoying if the kirby knows what he's doing, he will almost assuredly approach you with either spaced fairs or bairs, both of which you can crouch cancel/shield grab pretty easily. If he dthrows you, you can rest him out of it (this is an awful feeling btw). He is incredibly vulnerable off the stage since he has terrible horizontal recovery without using an aerial to increase his travel distance. Any time he is knocked off the stage, chase him off and wait for him to be use a fair as part of recovery, then punish between fairs. Try to recover high if you're knocked off, kirby's dtilt is surprisingly effective and ledge-guards with dsmash are an un-techable horizontal KO if delivered correctly.
The two most important things to look out for vs kirby is utilt and bair. Utilt will open up a free uair or bair. Bair is basically the same thing as Jiggs' fair and is used very similarly.
idea
Smash Master
are you going to apex?