Luigi QA - RIP Mark Dunstan "Marky-Mark"

[giuocob]

Shouldn't be a problem if you edgeguard intelligently. That's only if you're playing super ambitious Weegee and jumping out halfway over the abyss to Dair his face.

(I do it all the time in friendlies )

 

[Wenbobular]

there's always the chance.
Mostly what comes to mind is edgeguarding illusions - you miss and you're either spiked by Falco's illusion or if you're playing a Fox he just shine spikes you right there

 

[giuocob]

spiked by Falco's illusion

****IT. This happens to me all the time when I try to drop Dair him. I've always got myself ready to meteor cancel every time I try to hit him out of it.

 

[COEY]

dont bother trying to beat the illusion with an arial against falco its so not worth it. just use that lovely downwards tilted ftilt. if you must arial then go with the back air. with fox the fair is doable but i still prefer the ftilt or simply just get on the edge maybe?

edit: oh shi.. you can also dair the edge if you time it right, this is my personal favourite as if you space it well its no techable, sometimes they have height to illusion again but very rarely will sweetspot the 2nd time, so just ftilt normally.

 

[giuocob]

But dropping a Dair on them is so much more...satisfying...

 

[Wenbobular]

I think dafting is much more effective with Falcon / Ganondorf ~_~

 

[Vist]

i approve of the thread title, cept Pakman should get back to smashing!

 

[ChivalRuse]

Is it viable to run off the stage, fast fall, and jump back on with a nair to edgeguard spacies' illusion (Sheik-like). I know Luigi's jump is pretty slow, but the possibility of nairing a space animal without a double jump at high percents by the edge is too juicy to not consider.

 

[Winston]

I'm sure it works, but what's the point? It doesn't cover multiple options and it requires time to set up, so you kind of have to call what they're going to do.

 

[ChivalRuse]

With good timing, it would cover side-b to the edge, nonsweetspotted side-b to the edge, and side-b just barely onto the stage.

 

[Pakman]

Is it viable to run off the stage, fast fall, and jump back on with a nair to edgeguard spacies' illusion (Sheik-like). I know Luigi's jump is pretty slow, but the possibility of nairing a space animal without a double jump at high percents by the edge is too juicy to not consider.

Yeah you are really asking to get shinespiked/dair spiked.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I mean, if you had sufficient time to set it up, I think it has some applications.

 

[Winston]

but "time" in this case means you have to start doing it before they commit to the illusion... so I don't think it's that useful.

edit: I thought about it some more and maybe it could be good. I think I prefer grabbing the edge for the most part though.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

pakman, get at me on LoL.

IzzyInfamous

 

[giuocob]

Is it viable to run off the stage, fast fall, and jump back on with a nair to edgeguard spacies' illusion (Sheik-like). I know Luigi's jump is pretty slow, but the possibility of nairing a space animal without a double jump at high percents by the edge is too juicy to not consider.

I don't see what the point is...as has already been said, it takes too much time to be done on reaction so if you mispredict just a little bit you're either going to miss or get illusioned. And even if it was fast, drop off Dair and WD turn around edgehog both do the job better, and both are faster.

 

[Dynamism?]

just kill them instead of being fancy.

Fox offstage = jucy

Running offstage because you might get something juicy for it can squeeze the juice away.

:/

 

[giuocob]

just kill them instead of being fancy.

Fox offstage = jucy

Running offstage because you might get something juicy for it can squeeze the juice away.

:/

The big difference is in psychological damage.

If you're fox, and you get Baired out of Firefox, you're probably thinking "Meh, I just got Baired. I guess that's alright, I'm Fox after all, I'll just respawn and do something really gay and make it even."

But if you get hit by a sweetspotted Dair, you're probably going "HOLY **** WHAT THE **** JUST HAPPENED TO ME LUIGI IS THE STRONGEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME AAAAAAAH" and probably curl into the fetal position and cry while the Luigi player Shoryuken juggles you to death three more times.

 

[Wenbobular]

...Umm...any amount of Luigi experience means that you can get hit by basically whatever and receive little if any "psychological damage"
He's just ... not a scary character. <_<

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Bair is Bair.

so sexy

 

[ChivalRuse]

I have plenty of Luigi experience, and I'm still scared of him.

 

[COEY]

I have plenty of Luigi experience, and I'm still scared of him.

haha same, im mostly scared of dittos.

oh and i dont get why youd run of the stage with a dair (unless of course they care firefoxing below stage level) when you can just dair the edge, it leaves them in such a position that if they can get back and want the sweetspot you have more than enough time to react. and if they rush the recovery they are rarely high enough to make a platform so you can almost always just ftilt them below for that drop off dair

stay away from that off stage game against spacies, that is all.

 

[Wenbobular]

I have plenty of Luigi experience, and I'm still scared of him.

Nair more
Silly Joe

 

[Winston]

Vist, what are your tournament plans for next weekend?

Basically I'm wondering if you're going to No Johns, and if so, if there's any way that wenbo and I can get in on that.

 

[Vist]

Yeah I'm trying to go there / In the process of trying to make plans to go.

I'll send u a pm

 

[Dynamism?]

Really freakin smart players that are really freakin good against Luigi need special attention. I've grown more <3 for going off stage to Fair/Dair in place of Dair at the edge. You can cover all angles from RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM and you can always make it back if you don't screw up.

If they come onstage, I like grabbing nearly every character as my first option. **** ftilt/aerials. WD>grab leads to that, and THAT is more phsycological damage than anything.

I edgeguarded a Falco by grabbing the ledge, plain get up, turn around grab and fthrow, repeated 8 times as he kept trying to sibeB, upB etc. Then he finally went to the edge and died cause of me being there. It was a freakin high level Falco that knows Luigi, so I went gay cause if I tried something else, he'd ledge tech it, grab the edge, anything else. Just be ****ing gay like Shiek and yell "Get *****" LOL.

 

[Blea Gelo]

dam, i dont know why do i find this thread so beautiful

 

[COEY]

If they come onstage, I like grabbing nearly every character as my first option. **** ftilt/aerials. WD>grab leads to that, and THAT is more phsycological damage than anything.

I edgeguarded a Falco by grabbing the ledge, plain get up, turn around grab and fthrow, repeated 8 times as he kept trying to sibeB, upB etc. Then he finally went to the edge and died cause of me being there. It was a freakin high level Falco that knows Luigi, so I went gay cause if I tried something else, he'd ledge tech it, grab the edge, anything else. Just be ****ing gay like Shiek and yell "Get *****" LOL.

i agree with everything here. though my personal favourite is to down throw next to the edge when facing away from the edge. most characters you just need to drop off with a fair and it covers all their options, sort of like a luigi dropzone

 

[Winston]

Does Luigi have good OOS options vs spacies?

Like I know you can shieldgrab them if they mess up/ do an early aerial on shield, but vs a standard pillar timing, should I ever try to do an attack OOS or should i always try to roll/lightshield away?

and is nair OOS faster than shieldgrab?

 

[Mogwai]

pakman likes up b OoS a lot.

 

[Dynamism?]

Nair and Bair OOS both have their moments. That's all I'd ever willingly go for lol

 

[Smash G 0 D]

pakman likes up b OoS a lot.

Never get dash attacked again!

 

[PKSTkimo]

dam, i dont know why do i find this thread so beautiful

loco que fue, I just beat dark chrono xDDDD (Too bad they were friendlies ): )

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Watched some recent Eddie Mexico videos from Stab.

I know that was Mango's Falcon and all, but that was pretty one-sided.

Is there any way to make that matchup work out (and yes, I've read the awesome matchup thread)?

 

[Dynamism?]

Don't play like Falcon against Falcon, everyone does it and it's silly.

You need to play different. Just as a Samus can't space a Marth or a Jiggs can't camp a Fox. Learn to change. Systematic play will get you nowhere, you should play like a completely different person in every match up.

Read Bamesy's LLL, it's more helpful than any match up guide I've seen.

 

[Winston]

That matchup is better for Luigi than Fox or Falco I think. It's slightly in Falcon's favor but it's definitely doable, especially if you consider spacies doable. That set was definitely all Mango, not really the matchup.

I mean there's combo **** both ways, though it's not like either has guaranteed death combos on the other, they happen often enough.

As far as approaching goes, Falcon's gonna try and dashdance grab or approach/zone with nair/knee for the most part. Try not to get caught above him and you have good ways to respond to his options.

If he's doing an nair going forward and you expect it, you can usmash/utilt through the nair, CC it at low percents to downsmash, or shieldgrab it probably. If he's just kinda zoning with nair you can try and call it with a wd usmash, or kinda challenge it with bair/chop.

I have more problems with knee as you can't really shieldgrab it and trying to usmash it is riskier, but you can wd back dsmash or something.

Against falcons who run back a lot you can call it with a full-length wavedash and you can often hit them when they dash back, which is something few characters can do as well as Luigi.

As far as combo options they're mostly pretty intuitive I think.

I haven't figured out how to optimally DI against his combos yet. Usually Down+Away is definitely the best option, but against some combo patterns survival DI seems to get you out also.

I think FD is pretty bad for Luigi in this matchup and Yoshi's is really good.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Ok, one more:

So, let's say a falcon decides to get stomp happy (viz stomping in the same location, hoping to combo off of it.)

So, you get hit by a stomp on the ground and you fly up (let's assume double digit percents). What's the best way to SDI out of it?

 

[Winston]

Well if it's at the percents where you bounce up to the height where SH nair hits perfectly, that's probably what he's going to do. You can either try to Smash DI the first hit of the nair up, which works pretty well, or DI down + away. At this percent Uair shoudln't have enough stun to combo you.

If it's at a little higher percent and it looks like he'll try to SH uair you, I actually like survival DI. The problem is survival DI gets you combo'd into a knee if he goes for full hop uair -> dj knee, so watch out for that.

 

[KirbyKaze]

A bunch of questions for you Luigi players.

1) Luigi vs Puff - Explain how the onstage game works to me. Getting through Bairs, what moves should be watched, whether you can punish moves and if so which ones, etc. I'm interested in this character because he's ********.

2) Luigi vs Falcon - Can Luigi tech chase Falcon on reaction quickly enough to D-smash him a bunch of times and then eventually do something cool and maybe hit him offstage? Like, basically, can you tech chase him after knocking him down with D-smash on reaction at low percent with more knockdowns (probably more D-smash) or do you have to guess? This one is kind of weird.

3) Peach - Against Peach that's really defensive and throws turnips and floats back a lot, what is the optimal strategy? Do you rushdown? Do you creep in? Do Fireballs do anything, ever?

4) Brinstar - Is it actually good for Luigi? Eddie Mexico seems to love that place.

 

[Dynamism?]

1) I WD utilt a bunch, if you land one it's a free aerial. 3 of those and then switch the utilt with an usmash and it's a stock. Aside from that, approaching with shield is ok but after hitting jiggs with like 1 ftilt/utilt/dsmash/whatever, she's light enough to ruin any ccing she tries and all of your stuff hits hard. Utilt is great though. Apparently I do ok against Jiggs but I've yet to have a decent one to actually play so I really don't know.

2) You mean like dsmashing and he techrolls and you wd dsmash to tech chase? Probably need to guess if he's lower % and hits the ground fast. For the most part, dsmash into utilts/grabs/nairs etc is a great way to combo without the need to tech chase. Then just follow with a fair or tech chase when you have to instead.

3) I hate Peach but for some reason all the Peaches seem to hate fighting my Luigi and switch to Fox/Shiek lol. I must know something but they seem to do it right against me. I just stay grounded if they're floating at a distance. Aerial and they hit you back after dodging is gay. Nair is a great tool. Just wd DIRECTLY below them and Nair right through them while rising. **** them up. I don't even know, just be hella patient with the freakin radish chucker. It seems to work for me and Hitsu and Tooty have sick Peaches so me basing this off playing them seems aight to me. :\

4) I feel really comfortable against all the annoying Falcos there, aside from that, it's not really that bad in any other way. Luigi has trouble with recovering in a way that the lava really benefits him. SideBing below the stage to hit it or simply UpB on the stage ruins anyones edge guarding, and he has great burst killing to get others off. The only problem is small divits and shinanigans with the stage shape etc. (I once lots an MM to Diakonos from the lava hitting through the stage and cieling glitching me 0% to death when edgeguaring him at like 150%, ****in gay stage bull****! LOL)

 

[Winston]

2) Luigi vs Falcon - Can Luigi tech chase Falcon on reaction quickly enough to D-smash him a bunch of times and then eventually do something cool and maybe hit him offstage? Like, basically, can you tech chase him after knocking him down with D-smash on reaction at low percent with more knockdowns (probably more D-smash) or do you have to guess? This one is kind of weird.

I'd say no to this as in no Luigi player as of now can do this really at all, but I've never looked at the frame data. (Don't know where to find it for how long tech rolls are and how long it takes to start a wavedash). I'm sure there is enough time for like an AR-luigi to do it, but for some reason it just seems really hard/impossible to do whenever I've tried. It seems to me like it's the extra inputs of wavedashing that makes the on reaction techchase difficult, whereas Falcon/Sheik/Marth/Fox can do it because they just have to run.

You can however cover 3/4 the tech options on reaction I think. You can "assume" tech in place, downsmash the missed tech on reaction, and probably just run + grab if he rolls behind you.

The good news is after like 30% you can mostly combo falcon instead of relying on pure techchasing. If you want me to go into more detail about that I can but otherwise I feel silly explaining Luigi's sheik-like comboing in-depth.