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Luigi Is Not Irrelevant: An Appeal To Stop Acting Like He is.

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
Yeah I didnt mean it like that. I was just saying my opinion separately.

The only place my list is different from yours is Falco and Fox are switched, but I suck vs Falco so I'm probably wrong about that xD

Blea, you got any general advice on approaching falco or sheik?
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
My two cents: when approaching Sheik, wd -> CC but wd such that the CC goes through her. If she f-tilts, you CC, if she doesn't, you fly past her and can attack from behind where she's vulnerable. If she grabs you, well, then she just has amazing timing. Lol. Mix it up too of course, but this is probably one of the safest options, assuming the Sheik doesn't always react to wds with retreating fair. If she does, you can probably space a wd -> shield and punish her landing lag from the AC fair.

Vs Falco I'd imagine just waveshield (going for powershields constantly of course) and wait for Falco to commit to an aerial. Occasionally challenge him with retreating fair out of shield so that he doesn't always have the security of doing late aerials especially.
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
My two cents: when approaching Sheik, wd -> CC but wd such that the CC goes through her. If she f-tilts, you CC, if she doesn't, you fly past her and can attack from behind where she's vulnerable. If she grabs you, well, then she just has amazing timing. Lol. Mix it up too of course, but this is probably one of the safest options, assuming the Sheik doesn't always react to wds with retreating fair. If she does, you can probably space a wd -> shield and punish her landing lag from the AC fair.

Vs Falco I'd imagine just waveshield (going for powershields constantly of course) and wait for Falco to commit to an aerial. Occasionally challenge him with retreating fair out of shield so that he doesn't always have the security of doing late aerials especially.
What a joke :c
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
SH rising fair hits your shield; Luigi wavedashes out of shield and up-smashes. Sheik cannot do anything until she lands from her fair. Sheik gets hit by up-smash.

It works frame wise. Well, maybe not up-smash, but u-tilt for sure (that 4 frame u-tilt lol).
 

Blea Gelo

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
1,213
Location
Miami, FL
no, that does not works for me.

i thought u were wif vist, he can tell u about this match ups, but anyways

i play luigi, thinking about not getting hit, luigi is a deffensive character. 1st, never sh aerial sheik, u can try wif spacies, to see if u get a hit, a nair or something, but never do that on sheik. 2nd, do not chase sheik, space everything ur gonna do on her, cause, if the game would be perfect, luigi would not do damage on sheik if he would chase her. just dodge needles till she follows u up. trying doing this on sheiks. every time she fairs, dash, or runs to grab u, roll. there's gonna be certain times, where u would just jump, and punish her first (this would be in the moment, you will already read her, and ull sh, and dair her face, even down b works well in this situation cancelling both attacks and dsmashing immediately) . when she is on floor, first thing you gotta think of, is grab. CC isnt such a good idea, cause most of sheiks, go for the grab and even when they fair, u would not have the time to grab if they dont miss. u wont. try techchase her with dsmash, nairs, or even fairs, but grabs would be your best friend. bairs works pretty fking well when edgeguarding. and dairing at 60%< works fking good. when you grab in more than 80&%, and you are near the edge facing away the platform, try fthrowing her fast so they dont di, there, you can edguard, or waif for her to land and upB. if they land in a platform, fairing in the other side of her body so u send her towards your back, or dairing em, its good.

never follow her in the air, in anycase, you are loocking for a hit to get em, uair and bair forks well, fair if she is near, or FFing. but make it quick. luigi has no adventage on this matchup, none. so u gotta think to win. a lot.
jab her a lot when she is not CC. sometimes, even 6 jabs in a row would make her fell down and hit all of em. when ur coming, and they are sielding, always grab, and uthrow fast to combo at low %. if not, what i said above.

Falco: same history with the roll, roll every time he's getting near. but try getting a lot of uthrows. i practice PSing a lot, and that works pretty fine on me, i try to PH when falco shoots me the last laser to get over me. surprising fairs when they are getting closer works well. and fairs when u make pressure. making long wavedashes between they lasers despairs em. cause luigi's long wavedash works good.
other way to get em, is wait for em to come close, WL on the above platform quick, ff and bair. try playing wif jabs when they are near the edge, playing wif jabs and one fair works. but always one well spaced fair, try not gettinr grab. if falco grabs u and bthrows u, u are risking yourself to get a dair in the face. i edgeguard spacies with the tilts , bairs, fairs, and dairs. should. and when u just wanna pi on em, go after them in the air when they are using the up b, and fking side b em in the face, ull get a missfire sometime lol.
try ftilt em evetime after getting a well spaced bair, ull hit em/shieldstun them more time

srry if you don't understand gustav, i don't like talking to much in here because i know my english stinks
but i always read
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
Well, I definitely agree with the "Luigi should stay on the ground vs Sheik" part. Jumping is not good for him in that matchup. Lol.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
me said:
Personal favourite with Sheik vs Luigi is D-throw > F-tilt > block > shieldgrab > D-throw > FJ Uair > DJ Uair > FF > Bair through their Nair and kill them. I'm kind of lazy now, though, so I often Fair after the first Uair in the FJ Uair and go for the jugular a bit earlier.
I just thought I'd share that with you all. Because I love you. All of you.

Starts around like 7.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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F-tilt -> shield grab then nair is a good idea. I usually just d-throw at low percents, shield grab the nair, then d-throw -> up-smash. But your algorithm is way better lol.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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Once they're at 20 you can D-throw Uair --> Uair/another aerial on any DI they do so it's really good to make your first combo put them in that range.

If they're at 10-19 or so you can D-throw Uair --> block and punish their landing strategy pretty easily. Second Uair won't work. It might be like 25 for the double Uair but I forget. I'd probably remember if I played a Luigi for like 2 minutes.

But yeah, if you grab them at 0 or whatever, the goal is to put them in one of those ranges so you can **** them really hard for like 30 seconds and do massive damage while gaining massive positional advantage even though Luigi's not supposed to be combo food. Sheik cheats.

As they get used to this, and they start doing nothing, or jumping away, or airdodging, etc. then you can start mixing in nonsense like soft U-smash and whatever. Because he stops attacking through them, new options emerge in various situations. He winds up giving you free setups so you can get really creative and ridiculous and do even more damage so long as you're careful about when you abort mission to finish the combo and kill him.

Or you can stick to the formula because it accounts for air-dodge/nothing/jump with wait/WD OOS/etc. but that's gay.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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17,679
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I wish hitting his Dair meteor was easier on her so he could Dair, wait, Up+B KO at much lower percents than what's currently available, but it's really too hard. The possibility of a 55% KO on Sheik would significantly enhance his gimping power.

I'm not sure what else to really say, though. His combos are alright. I think Uair is underutilized against her when she's trying to combo break, same with CC Up+B. When Sheiks try to combo break with Bair or whatever, I think if she's at KO percent, it's probably a good idea to just CC Up+B but I'm not sure for how long it would work. Luigi slides a lot.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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When would Luigi CC -> up-b her? When she f-tilts? That would be sexy (I'm not sure if the f-tilt would push Luigi too far away to running up-b her though, due to his low traction :ohwell:).
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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I wish hitting his Dair meteor was easier on her so he could Dair, wait, Up+B KO at much lower percents than what's currently available, but it's really too hard. The possibility of a 55% KO on Sheik would significantly enhance his gimping power.

I'm not sure what else to really say, though. His combos are alright. I think Uair is underutilized against her when she's trying to combo break, same with CC Up+B. When Sheiks try to combo break with Bair or whatever, I think if she's at KO percent, it's probably a good idea to just CC Up+B but I'm not sure for how long it would work. Luigi slides a lot.
When would Luigi CC -> up-b her? When she f-tilts? That would be sexy (I'm not sure if the f-tilt would push Luigi too far away to running up-b her though, due to his low traction :ohwell:).
When Sheik's coming down on top of Luigi because his combo's finished, rather than trying to continue the combo, it may be worth just killing her if you have the opportunity to trade 4-8% for her stock.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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Oops. Misread the last few sentences of that post. Yeah, Luigi can definitely CC a poorly spaced bair -> up-b. Too bad that's about the only expected situation where he can effectively CC her aerials. Any other fair/bair antics are l-cancel -> shieldable usually.

That being said, I want to see more jab -> up-b gimmicks from Luigis. Lol.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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And yet Hbox lands jab -> rest gimmicks quite frequently. You just have to have a sense of how aware your opponent is in the moment, along with what you think he'll do in response to your actions.
 

Nicknyte

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
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Sierra Vista, AZ
I think playing vs. Sheik involves a bit of bravery. Like, trying to do a JC grab when you get close opposed to a sliding shield grab or a jab > Grab. Also, getting sheik to a percent where ftilt gets a valid knockback helps bunches.
 

KirbyKaze

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[14:35] kirbykaze3038: *****ES DON'T KNOW
[14:35] kirbykaze3038: 'BOUT MY PAL LUIGI
[14:35] kirbykaze3038: CC UP+B
[14:35] kirbykaze3038: WHO DOES THAT
[14:35] kirbykaze3038: ?!!?
[14:35] mctothecain: *****ES DON'T KNOW
[14:35] mctothecain: WE ARE SOOOO GONNNA TREAM FRIENDIES
[14:35] mctothecain: AND **** PEOPLE
[14:35] mctothecain: LUIGI ZELDA
[14:35] kirbykaze3038: **** YEAH
[14:35] mctothecain: CAN'T BE STOPED
[14:36] kirbykaze3038: ONLY SHEIK CAN STOP US
[14:36] kirbykaze3038: OH WAIT
[14:36] kirbykaze3038: PAL
[14:36] kirbykaze3038: LOLOLOLOL
 

Plairnkk

Smash Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
10,243
sheik isnt guaranteed dthrow-->uair--->another aerial on luigi ever if they DI correctly ~_~
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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Messages
17,679
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edit: misread

yeah if they di the uair away sometimes you have to like cheat the second aerial and space a fair or something instead... not a true combo but it usually works
 

Plairnkk

Smash Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
10,243
yeah kk true true!

generally you always want to DI away but you will still get ***** no matter what by a good sheik
 

Plairnkk

Smash Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
10,243
i actually think luigi is pretty good, he just gets REALLY REALLY REALLY ***** by sheik lol. he does well in a lot of other ways though just...not any of them are against sheik


edit:: kind of also think marth destroys luigi, but yea
 

Nicknyte

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Marth is actually Easy enough. Sheik is just ew. But Ill pick Luigi to play against shiek then I would play her with Marth anyday.
 
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