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Captain Falcon and Marth have totally different playstyles, yet it's pretty obvious who's better.
who do you think is better? i go with both but it is hard to get used to their different styles. I prefer Lucas's disjointed hitboxes but i prefer Ness's power. I have decided to give up on neither. but i mainly play Lucas for now because of all his glitched recovery methods.
Not really. Lucas's PK thunder can juggle just as well as Ness's, and unlike Ness's it actually combos and can KO people. A full pass-through with Lucas's PK thunder at low % can rack up about 30%, and at higher % the head of the PK thunder knocks them away. Unlike Ness's PK thunder, Lucas doesn't need to fire it again, meaning less time between hits.
Also not true. Lucas's PK thunder turns faster and because it's slower, air dodging it will most likely just get you caught in the tail, which is huge for both PK thunders.
Also figure that it turns at a sharper angle, meaning that you have a smaller window with which to attack it before you get the tail, which can't be canceled with a hit. So either way it's still a lot harder to hit Lucas's PK thunder than Ness's.
I disagree. Lucas' thunder seems to hit them more sideways, making it easier for them to dodge and shortening the juggle since juggling is defined as repeatedly skyrocketing a foe with moves that send them upwards.
Yeah, but remember, it knocks them more sideways than up, making DIing out easier, or at least, hitting them harder. And when I said "dodge" I didnt only mean airdodge, but just moving away also. Lucas' thunder just doesnt seem to chase DIing foes as well as Ness' does. I believe PKT for Ness falls faster than most foes at normal speed, an even some during their fast fall.
When you say "window" are you referring to time or area? Because, somewhere Ive heard that it takes just as long for Ness to PKT2 as long as Lucas becuase thought the circle is smaller, the thunder is slower.
Idk, I always feel safer using his stick. Its speed is just too wonderful. Every time I try a dsmash, it gets shielded. And for Ness' case, if you do shield the yo-yo from the back, I'll just keep charging it. Its pretty amazing what people do sometimes. Sometimes they sit there and let it eat their shield, sometimes they release their shield and get hit, and sometimes they roll in front of me to get hit by the front.
Would you rather be hit in the head with a bat, or a stick? Yeah, I thought so.
They're both PK thunders and they both serve pretty much the same purpose. If you got Ness's PK thunder and gave it to Lucas, they'd still be used very much the same way. It doesn't compliment any other move or anything like that, it's just PK thunder. And Lucas's PK thunder is better.
You've never played as Lucas before? EVER?
Really? I guess the wind effect is one of those effects of moves that you know exists but never actually get to use it, and then once or twice in your lifetime it saves you, if you know what I mean.
I figure the way it will come into play is that it alllows you to more liberally activate the magnet when you are only anticipating an energy attack, from say Falco or Fox. You can turn it on if you guess they'll shoot you, and if you're wrong, *and they come at you on the ground*, you can turn off the magnet and repel them.
I know what you mean, I was joking about it being impossible to land, I meant it's pretty difficult to land. I also understand what you mean about forcing your opponent to move in odd fashions because of the potential of PK Flash. Thanks for the specific instances, I can use those as tips of how to use it in the future.
Dude, they try really hard to balance these characters.
It most certainly is not. Because of its speed, I have opponents air dodging it all the time. I don't get that problem with Lucas.
Calm down.
Me agree, and I like Ness overall because of his air game and throw game (man, Ness' bair is sickly, as is almost all of his aereals). And I like his PKT2.Lucas = Ness
I disagree with anyone who says Lucas' PKT > Ness'
Ness' PKT is faster, harder to dodge, and canjuggle. Lucas' cannot. It knocks them away. Good for edgeguarding, but that's all I use it for. Ness' has more mindgames due to his speed. When falling from a juggle, I sometimes let out PKT. My opponent sometimes thinks Im hitting myself down and airdodges early. I then bring PKT down and hit them, cancelling his juggle.
Also, just think, if they dodge Ness' PKT, you can whip it around and hit them. Lucas' is way too slow to do this. And when using Lucas. what if you hit them and they get out of the thunder ****? Lucas' is still concentrating and is open to attacks (this applied to edgeguarding as well). Ness however only has to hit once to snap out of it. And his faster thunder is easier to stage cancel should you miss.
For those of you who say its easier to control, you just need to get used to Ness'. Its just as easy to hit yourself IMO. Lucas' is just more newbie friendly. BTW, I said NEWBIE, not n00b, so Im not insulting you Lucas users.
On the subject of eating thunder, Lucas' thunder is almost as easy to gimp. Instead off just jumping into it like some would do to Ness, you can also hit it with an aerial and it will go away as if eaten. True, it is still harder to eat, making it a slight pro over Ness, but that is all that it is. A slight pro.
Lucas' PK Fire > Ness' with zap jumping, pseudo wavedashing, b-sticking. and striaght angle.
Ness' PK fire is still good though. I like b-sticking PK Fire when I ledge jump and grab the ledge again to fend off edgeguarders.
Lucas' PSI Magnet >>>> Ness'
Seriously. Idk what the game designers were thinking when they gave Lucas PSI magnet. Ness has absolutely NOTHING. Less healing, no power, equal in terms of defense (maybe if Lucas was as exposed as the animation made it look like they would be a bit more balanced) and less lag.
Ness PKT2 > Lucas
Its stronger, it has 1 big hit as opposed to many small ones finished with a decent one. Seriously, sometimes all the hits in Lucas' PKT wont connect, leaving the opponent by yourside and yourself very open. Ness' is always a guaranteed "get away" type move. And, you can floorblast it! Lucas' final hitbox is cancelled if ou try to floorblast with it, making it a very unreliable option. And I honestly have never found a situation in which I wished Ness' PKT2 was as long as Lucas. The blastzones seem spaced out JUST enough for Ness to be able to get back with his newfound sweetspot range. The only time I have found Lucas' PKT2 necessary for recovery is when I was at the VERY corner of the blastzone on FD, and this wasnt in a real match, it was training. If I let myself down there without double jumping or PKT2ing earlier, I deserve to die.
Ness' aerial game > Lucas'
Not saying Lucas' airgam is bad, but Ness' is just better. Almost EVERYTHING combos. The only exception is the dair which starts or finishes combos. Lucas' seem to be just "get outta my face" type aerials, meaning they knockback foes to the point where they dont combo well, but cannot KO. You can combo with them, just not as easily as Ness.
Ness' throws >>> Lucas'
Man... I throw people with Lucas and am like WTF all the time. His throws dont KO OR combo well. They all have too much knockback to combo, but not enough to kill! Im pretty sure his dthrow is his best kill throw, but thats in the mid 100s. And his uthrow feels... obsolete. His dthrow feels like an uthrow. The opponent goes WAY high. So it feels like Lucas lacks a dthrow, my favorite kind
Ness' dthrow hovever is a wonderful combo starter. His bthrow kills at 130, and could be even eariler depending on a few variables (position, opponent, etc.).
Lucas' ground game > Ness'
Again, not saying Ness is bad, just not as good. Lucas' dair and nair setup for his godly tilts which juggle and combo. Lucas' stick > Ness' bat with its even sweetspot, much greater speed, and ease of use. Sorry Ademisk, but I totally disagree with you here.
Usmashes IMO are on equals. True, Lucas' has just about the MOST powerful and angeful usmash in the game, but its SO **** SLOW!!! I NEED a fast usmash. Usmashes are IMO, the best kind because you can do them out of a dash and stright of of the shield. But if you wanna do that, its gotta be a fast usmash. Ness' is fast, with good (not as good as Lucas' though) range. It also feels like a shield when I lay it out in front of me because it cancels out attacks but still remains out. It starts combos and brings opponents onto Ness' turf: the air.
Dsmash, contrary to what most believe, I think goes to Ness. Lucas' is strong, but it feels too much like a fsmash hitting with immense power and only on 1 side (yes, I know it can hit behind him, but when it does, it is weak and comes late in the smash). I have never found a situation in which I have neede the dsmash over his stick.
Ness' has mindgames written all over it. Great for stopping rollers and hit people behind you for a quick surprise. If charged, it pulls them into the second hit. It will send opponents skyward again, to give Ness the airgame advantage. And the fact that you can mix this up with his usmash which comes out in front first then hits behind, it really throws off opponents since the dsmash comes from the back first, then forward.
Phew... man that was longer than I planned it to be. This isnt even all of my thought. I may post everything I think about the two sometime.
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