Lucario's Community Share and Video Analysis

[Browny]

$5MM @ Genesis 2
Browny Vs. Zigsta 1
Browny Vs. Zigsta 2
Browny Vs. Zigsta 3
Excuse the poor quality, theres not much you can do when recording CRT's...

 

[D. Disciple]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7wjmSrw6w

Just one against Near.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7wjmSrw6w

Just one against Near.

D, I know you're WAY better than this.

Against TLs you need to use AS to frame trap their landings.

Also, throw some BAS occasionally to cling/blow up vs. TL spam. I did not see you use BAS once in that match.

I smiled when you did fire that Sphere at 106% to outpriorize his projectiles. People actually read my threads, yay.

Try to not harass TL in a near full health shield too much. His quick air attacks are very good gtfo moves. BAir strings gfhadnogunraingiononisdoi ARGH

Also, Double Team... such a great move in this MU. Since TL's projectiles are slow and predictable DT can be used to get out of those situations on reaction. Especially useful when he throws two or more things at you. Much easier to time DT than to time grabbing a bomb in the air. Also can be used for some landing frametraps.

When TL uses hookshot on your shield Shield DI that ***** towards him. Fair/Nair/Dair followup as needed.

UTilt is such a great punisher too, you missed a number of opportunities where shield drop -> Utilt would've gotten him off ya.

A very very aggravating character to play against, but with all of our Lucario tricksies we can get around a lot of it.

 

[D. Disciple]

Oh that match? Warming up match, it was just funny how fast I brought it back after I was embarrassing myself.

We went pretty even at the end of the day, close to my favor a bit. Near gave me the business in this match though, but he's vulnerable to gimps. lol

Good advice though.

 

[Steam]

against a bad player but I never ever get vids up against MKs D:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fqj84ROruk

be very brutal

 

[D. Disciple]

Tournament matches

vs Sin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX1bdiI-igg - vs Olimar game 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H89mv4nZn_0 - vs ICs game 3 I'm so bad against ICs lol

more to come.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Is there a single IC main that can zero cg death a Lucario correctly?

I am so bad at that MU too, but remember, Ftilt is likely to shield poke at least one of them at high %s. If not, they have crap traction anyway.

"**** this I'm Up Smashing."

 

[D. Disciple]

Cheese did it to me once.

Vinnie gave me a lot of advice on the match up too. So it's all good, and that usmash was just clutch lol.

 

[Linkshot]

Swordgard has done it. In fact he suicides the stock as soon as Nana is gone, lol..
One mistake = death. It's like 80's games all over again!

 

[phi1ny3]

Don't use as much fsmash unless they're separated, there's too much lag for it to be really safe (or if you do, strutter step it), replace it w/ moving around more or ftilt occasionally. FH fair more, it baits out their uair and if you space it you can punish them for doing it (at least that's what Zucco did in the MU).

Mix up your landings w/ b-reversals more (and don't always dair coming down, it doesn't beat uair by range alone, just positioning and the risk v. reward), they're doing a lot of damage from juggles/grabbing your landing more.

Most of the game was dependent on you separating and punishing, that takes time and experience in the MU to do. Just remember that if Nana is high, she'll keep throwing ice blocks, if she's low, she's going to recover really predictably and move where popo is (meaning if he jumps, she'll try to jump up to him if close enough). If you're having trouble getting the spacing down to hit her w/ fair stuff, if she's recovering from below/mid a dj nair back onstage will do wonders (you can also edgehog prior to do this, and it'll put Popo in a guessing game because making him go offstage to synch w/ nana again can be really risky, just watch out for onstage blizzards and usmashes/uairs when coming back on).

Fthrow is actually a really good throw to use in this MU, it's much quicker compared to his other throws and at the right times can be hard to react to (and it beats shields) and can give you that separation needed.

Seems like Linkshot has some good exp. in the MU since he plays a good IC player, he should be good w/ telling you the MU.

@MTI: it's because half of them are dumb and forget that the dthrow timing changes depending on percent, and it's more drastic when playing against midweights like Luc. They should just do bthrow -> fthrow, since fthrow is static (plus it does a little more damage per throw anyways).

 

[Linkshot]

I'd say that a great tool we have in this matchup is a massive pummel hitbox.
ICs looking for their grab? Quickly grab Popo, pummel Nana away, and uThrow.
uThrow will throw Popo up but the hitbox will send Nana to the side.
Alternately, bThrow and then catch Nana with an fSmash.

Good stage picks: Delfino, Frigate, Rainbow, Brinstar...basically anywhere that the AI gets distracted easily.

Hell, I won a match solely by camping the vertical platform on Frigate because it makes Nana wonder wtf is going on. In fact, she ran off and UpB'd, causing Swordgard to suicide in an attempt to save her

 

[D. Disciple]

D Disciple vs Deepak

game1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKqAsFAxz6w
game2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrmQcOoAVhU


more matches from the tournament. I break his shield in game 1

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Just watched game 1...

Ohh I really love the Fair to FP on shield. Shieldstun + shield letdown lag + the time it takes to turn around and grab... You may be onto something...

Have you thought about DAir on shield to landing FP?

I see you're using Air Walk like you're supposed to, good work, D!

 

[D. Disciple]

I have and it's not safe

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moyFaoObzfQ ...Now I want to team with a good lucas.

 

[D. Disciple]

You do know we can do that with anyone with a lock right?

 

[RT]

It's also INCREDIBLY situational because Lucario's AS won't lock if he has too much Aura.

 

[D. Disciple]

Why I prefer that Lucario does the footstool

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Friendlies vs Judge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ALT7eNzPM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKbJrcI60R0

Also this is the reason why drunk Judge should never use

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zdtasyJqLQ

You get to see me combo him from one side of Lylat to the other..lol


Edit: Looking for critique on these. This is my first time really using Lucario against a really good player. I've been watching Trela vids recently to learn stuff lol. I know I'm rough around the edges but I'm hoping there's some potential here

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Friendlies vs Judge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ALT7eNzPM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKbJrcI60R0

Also this is the reason why drunk Judge should never use

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zdtasyJqLQ

You get to see me combo him from one side of Lylat to the other..lol


Edit: Looking for critique on these. This is my first time really using Lucario against a really good player. I've been watching Trela vids recently to learn stuff lol. I know I'm rough around the edges but I'm hoping there's some potential here

I've got tomorrow and Sunday off, so if you want I can stop on by and give your Lucario a thorough critique, show you techs and stuff too.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Still need critique <_<

 

[Steam]

Lucarios are solitary creatures and are prideful enough to not tend to help each other.

also you're a snake and D3 user. you will learn about us and destroy us.

hi vertical horizon

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Meh I only use Snake for ICs...which is part of why I like Luc. He's so much more fun/natural to me.

Give me your secrets!


Edit: What's good FieryWater?

 

[D. Disciple]

I'll critique your matches later.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Sweet thanks!

 

[Karnu]

Sweet thanks!

woo Lucario FTW

 

[Browny]

Random as hell.

 

[Karnu]

Random as hell.

dident know what to say in this thread hahaha . So mind telling me what this thread is about?

 

[phi1ny3]

Friendlies vs Judge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ALT7eNzPM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKbJrcI60R0

Also this is the reason why drunk Judge should never use

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zdtasyJqLQ

You get to see me combo him from one side of Lylat to the other..lol


Edit: Looking for critique on these. This is my first time really using Lucario against a really good player. I've been watching Trela vids recently to learn stuff lol. I know I'm rough around the edges but I'm hoping there's some potential here

Something that will help you in the MU much easier is learning to jump after canceling your AS w/ shield. Your aerials are the most important part of this MU (because you need that walling very much), and being able to fair, nair, (or a quick dair when he spotdodges in front of you) etc. out of your aura sphere charge will make it much harder for him to punish you for charging because you're not limited to shielding or rolling. Use less fsmash, Wario can punish that in his sleep. Use more utilt if he's crossing up on you, it's deceptively good anti-air.

Times like 2:37 in your 1st game are a good spot to use SH dair oos, it's a really, really good punish since it covers fairly well underneath him and takes a lot of the guesswork (since you don't have to worry about which way you're facing as much unlike w/ grab or jab), Wario's one of those people where you'll find your spacing become really weird because of how well he moves, so moves like utilt and dair to provide decent coverage on both sides is key.

If you're having trouble dealing w/ tires, if you have one in hand, try to face away while charging AS. One of the cool gimmicks of this is that because you can shield cancel AS really quick, you can almost immediately go into a glide toss and either contest his air space by throwing it down while you're glide tossing, or throw forward if you think he's not going to instant toss back.

At the end, you got a little desperate, in that scenario, you still have comeback potential, but you have to poke a looooot (like throw out dtilt/ftilt or jabs around instead of fsmash because you can get more chances of provoking a response from Wario, if he whiffs, punish, if not, you're usually safe from retaliation and free to keep making those little chips to make the comeback)

2nd match, notice how often you got punished for throwing out fsmash? Use it rarely on Wario. Also notice how much better you were doing when you were controlling the middle of the stage? On a stage like BF especially, Lucario is really good at walling and controlling portions like that, abuse that to your advantage. Once again, I would recommend using more utilt, especially to cover your landing after a missed fair (fair -> AD -> utilt will usually stop those clap/nair punishes from happening as often), utilt is very good in MUs against people in the air, because a lot of people don't realize how well it covers from behind (since most people are vulnerable to crossup, this is a really good tool to punish that mentality). Lag is very bad in this MU, avoid overly commiting moves, pretend you're fighting a Diddy Kong, just work on making sure you do fewer wasted moves, and make them more "pokey", like space them a bit farther without the intention to hit, so you can try to force a reaction or preemptively stop an opponent from going there.

Overall, I think you should work on learning how to trap w/ AS more (you can find ways to do it even in the Wario MU if you watch carefully for the opponent's habits), and work on your movement or shield options. Half the reads he was getting was because you rolled out of shield, which while is an amazing option, if you can mix in utilt, aerials, or jab, you can make your rolls less punishable. He's going to force you to shield when he's inside your spacing, make sure you wall him out harder, or make him go for bigger commitment moves like dair or nair (or clap) by full hop fairing/dairing, just whatever you can to force him to have to switch it up on the ground instead of having free reign over the air, you have the advantage in range, use it! Oh yeah, another minor note, use fthrow a little less at low percents and more after 100%. Fthrow does a lot of damage at higher percents because of the aura buff (at max aura, it does 14%, and throwing in a couple of quick pummels, you can easily make it damage as much as a D3 bthrow), it's okay to use fthrow at lower percent if you want to "chase" after it, but remember that your bthrow and dthrow are great for raw damage at any percent (both do 10% regardless of aura) and give you some time to charge your AS more. Plus, fthrow when fresh can occasionally kill (especially if the opponent DI's badly, which is possible since it's a really fast throw).

 

[AlexoftheAura]

dident know what to say in this thread hahaha . So mind telling me what this thread is about?

It's where the Lucario community shares and analyzes videos.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I see..that makes perfect sense! Thank you.

I use D3 for Wario obviously but the reason I wanted to do this was because of the fact its a harder MU for Lucario and I wanted to play a MU that'll make me focus on defensive game. Still learning all my options though. And for some reason I'm really afraid to use Dair OoS. It looks so good but I get paranoid I'm gonna get punished for it lmao. But yeah i didnt notice I rolled OoS so much. Thanks for pointing all that out. I've got much to learn lol

 

[Karnu]

It's where the Lucario community shares and analyzes videos.

I see thanks for that =3

 

[sparkaura]

About the wario vids, do we have a grab release on him? I've tested it on comp warios and it works with u-smash. Just curious cause in that case he could use that next time he faces a wario (and me too).

 

[AlexoftheAura]

We get an fsmash out of an air release on Wario. The only problem is that in order to guarantee an air release we need to grab him over an edge or on a slope like the ones on Yoshi's Island.

 

[phi1ny3]

If you can somehow force an air release on wario, you get a lot of stuff, all of which hurt. The problem is doing it in the first place w/ as stubby arms as we have and with the lack of a guaranteed air release outside of a few scenarios.

 

[sparkaura]

What do you mean by "forcing an air release" I thought it was forced through pummeling,stopping and waiting for the grab to be broken

 

[phi1ny3]

Wario won't air release if he doesn't input jump b/c he isn't high enough off the ground when we grab him (if you see his feet dangling, that's usually a guaranteed air release if you stop pummeling, and w/ chars like Sheik, Snake, etc, they hold him up high enough to force the air release). When Lucario grabs Wario if he doesn't use X, Y, or the upward analog on his mashing inputs, he doesn't air release. It's the reason why shorter characters don't have any air releases on Wario (ever saw a MK or Pikachu air release Wario at will in a match?)

You can do it if you grab him over the edge, or on a downwards slant, but on flat ground, you won't be able to guarantee an air release unless he doesn't know to not mash with jump inputs.

 

[sparkaura]

Ah, I see. Most players mash buttons and rotate the control stick so I'd assume they'd hit the jump button at one point. If they don't can they punish this improper air release?

 

[phi1ny3]

Yes, Lucario has a holiday w/ Wario if he air releases.

The Warios I play just mash w/ a half circle on their analog, and only flick up and down across the cstick and the A and B button, it's annoying because Lucario seems so tall and yet he can't seem to do it, and it's really hard to get a grab on Wario as is because of his fairly short grab range, wish it was more rewarding . Of course, there's a lot of stages where you can make it guaranteed, like Lylat or spots on several CPs.

 

[sparkaura]

Ah ok. Thanks for further clarification...I went to my first tourney and faced a wario so I curious about air release options, albeit this is the wrong thread to do it in lol