Lucario: Detailed Combo Guide (wip)

[ChillySundance]

hahaaa lol :3 if you wanna pretend i have contempt about your guide be my guest ... i don't think these are all the "known"(as u put them) combos for Lucario, I think you exagerating a little

Thx man, I always like ppl supporting (some) of my values )

Well when it's completed, it should cover all possible 'true' combos that don't require specific stage related stuff (if you find any that aren't listed here, and get them to register as true combos in training mode, then feel free to contribute them)

It's still 'WIP' for a reason.

 

[Jay-kun]

Well when it's completed, it should cover all possible 'true' combos that don't require specific stage related stuff (if you find any that aren't listed here, and get them to register as true combos in training mode, then feel free to contribute them)

It's still 'WIP' for a reason.

Ok so there are actually more combos you can add (I think).. maybe you can add perfect pivot combos and wave bouncing combos.
Example: fair to wavebounced AS? (<--stuff like this)
Also this would be the ultimate guide if there was even combos for ledge attacks, floor attacks, but most importantly, there need to be combos for special moves.
Example: whiffed DT (you miss the double team ATTACK) to utilt
Example: up-throw to ES <--this would be red for only working if they don't counter with their DI
So yeah actually I have a new passion for this guide hope it grows.






Also...sorry for being salty I was just jealous of your guide xD

 

[Steam]

I dunno if this is layed out in the best way. It could make for an easier read if it was formatted with merely what follows out of each specific move and when rather than being a big combo dump. I think it's extremely important to highlight things like landing nair > dash grab being extremely reliable at low%.

 

[ChillySundance]

Yeah, I'll work out the formatting and make it more presentable once all the information's in place.

I've been messing around with Dair > grab (or forcepalm) and that sort of thing, and it doesn't seem like it could be a true combo since you can't combo the first hit of Dair into jab. Force palm grab has a 7 frame startup as opposed to the grab's 6 frame startup, so I'm not super sure. I'll have to test it more.

I'll definately add landing Fair to running grab next time I do an update, along with Aura sphere charge > aura sphere release.

On the topic of wavebouncing and perfect pivot combos, I can't do these reliably enough myself to really test them thoroughly, but I'll try my best. Many of lucario's combos involving tilts are so frame-tight that even the short amount of time required to move forward and Perfect Pivot can ruin them.

@ jay-kun, I've tested Uthrow > Extremespeed and sadly it's not a combo even without DI. Extremespeed is quite slow and the opponent is able to air dodge long before Lucario even takes off from the ground.

 

[Jay-kun]

Yeah, I'll work out the formatting and make it more presentable once all the information's in place.

I've been messing around with Dair > grab (or forcepalm) and that sort of thing, and it doesn't seem like it could be a true combo since you can't combo the first hit of Dair into jab. Force palm grab has a 7 frame startup as opposed to the grab's 6 frame startup, so I'm not super sure. I'll have to test it more.

I'll definately add landing Fair to running grab next time I do an update, along with Aura sphere charge > aura sphere release.

On the topic of wavebouncing and perfect pivot combos, I can't do these reliably enough myself to really test them thoroughly, but I'll try my best. Many of lucario's combos involving tilts are so frame-tight that even the short amount of time required to move forward and Perfect Pivot can ruin them.

@ jay-kun, I've tested Uthrow > Extremespeed and sadly it's not a combo even without DI. Extremespeed is quite slow and the opponent is able to air dodge long before Lucario even takes off from the ground.

Yep, also I was wrong, check out this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ_ZzAvSFis
Lucario doesn't even slide on a perfect pivoted tilt..
What is your definition of combo, if you mean true combo then I understand but from what I have seen, bthrow, fthrow, and uthrow can all be followed up by a ES.
Maybe I am confusing follow-up's with combos..lol first time I will have to look up "combo" on smash wiki.

 

[RT]

Combos imply the opponent is still stuck in hitstun and cannot act out of it besides trying to DI to avoid further hits. If the opponent can perform another action to escape (attacking, jumping, airdodging, etc), it is an invalid combo/string.

 

[ChillySundance]

Yeah, what RT said. A 'combo' is a series of attacks while the opponent is in hitstun. In smash 4 and brawl, they're like unicorns.

 

[Meowser]

Uthrow > Jump > Fair > (Jump > Fair > Fair/Uair)

Over the course of the last games with Lucario I'm trying to force myself out of the habit to instinctively Dthrow...and for some reason, I can't get this to work, even though it's marked as reliable (and I've seen people do it reliably). Whenever I try to do this, people airdodge out of it. I can never get my Fair (or Nair for that matter) out before they get out of hitstun. Is the timing on the jump really -that- tight?

I'll get into training mode and try this specifically when I get off work, but last night I actually reached a point where I avoided throwing because of all the whiffed Fairs and resulting punishes.

 

[ChillySundance]

Yeah the timing for it is a lot more strict than Dthrow, since Uthrow has a lot less hitstun. Very hard to do it effectively in lag or against floaty characters.

The fact that your throw animation speed changes for character weight doesn't help with the timing either.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

im pretty sure there are no true combos out of down throw.... the best strategy i have seen is to up throw > upair/nair/fair until they get to about 50% then start to bait out air dodges since they will be conditioned to air dodge right away. up thow > fair seems to be the most reliable in most cases.

 

[ChillySundance]

Dthrow combos, but only if they don't DI. So yeah, not really a 'true' combo with a guaranteed followup, but it does count as a combo in training mode and it will combo if you can train people to DI the other way.

Fair is also fast enough when done twice in a row to hit most characters during the recovery frames of their air dodge too, though sometimes it just doesn't feel that way due to a lack of lingering hitboxes.

 

[Bellicross]

Hi! I suppose i'd be called a newbie here, (great guide btw very thorough!) but I'd like to ask some stuff about Lucario since I'm maining him in SSB4. To get to the point what do you think of Lucario's backthrow(if thats what it's called?) for combo'ing? I haven't played immensely because I don't like playing online but when I play with friends I often finds that backthrow>dash attack>dash attack> jump> fair will work fairly often. Is this because the people I'm playing against just aren't good enough to di out of it or is it a legitimately good use of moves?

 

[User52]

Hi! I suppose i'd be called a newbie here, (great guide btw very thorough!) but I'd like to ask some stuff about Lucario since I'm maining him in SSB4. To get to the point what do you think of Lucario's backthrow(if thats what it's called?) for combo'ing? I haven't played immensely because I don't like playing online but when I play with friends I often finds that backthrow>dash attack>dash attack> jump> fair will work fairly often. Is this because the people I'm playing against just aren't good enough to di out of it or is it a legitimately good use of moves?

It depends on if they tech and percentages. Backthrow is better for positioning really. In my opinion anyway. But if they miss the tech, no reason not to go for it.

 

[ChillySundance]

You can't really combo anything off backthrow but it does set up some nice tech traps. Especially if you have a fully charged aura sphere, you can sometimes backthrow into AS and if they don't tech, they'll eat it. If you have a high amount of aura you can also make it hard for them to air dodge so close to the ground, due to the size of your projectile.

 

[Ulevo]

After playing Lucario for a while and testing him in the lab, I've come to some conclusions on his combo game. Keeping in mind that most of his combos reliably work when he has low Aura and his opponent is at low or mid %, these are the most reliable:

Up Throw + Nair (12%)
Up Throw + Fair (11%) + (Follow Up)
Down Tilt + Grab + Up Throw + (Follow Up)
Down Tilt + Dash Attack (8%)
Up Tilt + Up Tilt (Character Specific) (6%)
Up Tilt + Nair (8%)
Up Tilt + Grab + Up Throw (10%)
Buffered Down Air + Dash Attack (12%)
Buffered Down Air + Grab + Up Throw + (Follow Up)
Spaced Buffered Down Air First Hit + Grab/Force Palm/Dash Attack
Forward Air + Forward Air + Nair (13%)
Nair + Grab + Up Throw + (Follow Up)
Nair + Dash Attack (10%)

Some things to note:
- Down Throw + Fair might work against proper DI with certain characters. I know it won't work against Captain Falcon when I try it, but I believe it works on others. This would be worth testing.
- Nair is more damaging than Fair, and more consistent than Uair. It should always end your aerials string to maximize damage, and is much safer than trying to go for a Fair out of an Up Throw.
- Down Tilt + Jab Combo will do the same as Down Tilt + Dash Attack, but the Dash Attack works at a wider % range and puts you in a better position.
- Up Tilt chains seem very character specific and only work at certain % ranges.
- Up Tilt + Up Tilt at early % can be blocked by holding Shield which will buffer a PS, but this can be mixed up with a grab.
- The first hit of the Down Air has a hitbox in front of Lucario that has a set knock back, regardless of % or Aura. I haven't tested to see if there is anything guaranteed, but it can mix up in to a grab or Force Palm at higher % for a kill.

Additionally, Lucario's Nair is really good for true combos on platforms. On Battlefield, you can use Lucario's Nair until roughly 30-35% on most characters to push them off the ledge for either a guaranteed grab as they fall, or a small Aura Sphere for the bounce in to whatever you want. Once it stops working at 30-35%, you can reverse the Nair to use the rear hit box for the same set ups up to an additional 10-15% more. This is really good on stages like Battlefield.

 

[ChillySundance]

I don't agree that Nair is more consistent than Uair. It has barely any hitbox above you, mostly in front and slightly below you, which isn't good for finishing a lot of the air combos that end with the opponent slightly above. Perhaps you could use it more liberally against bigger characters, which it seems to have an easier time hitting.

Thanks for the contributions! But most of the stuff you've listed has already been covered in detail in the OP.

 

[Ulevo]

I don't agree that Nair is more consistent than Uair. It has barely any hitbox above you, mostly in front and slightly below you, which isn't good for finishing a lot of the air combos that end with the opponent slightly above. Perhaps you could use it more liberally against bigger characters, which it seems to have an easier time hitting.

Thanks for the contributions! But most of the stuff you've listed has already been covered in detail in the OP.

Obviously it's been covered. I'm just explaining what is consistent. And as far as nair is concerned, it will usually hit unless your opponent DI's behind you, while uair has a larger margin for error given how narrow the hitbox is.

 

[JohnnstR]

You're missing quite a bit my friend, and alot that you have aren't true combos. here - https://www.reddit.com/r/LucarioMains/comments/3gh9wc/lucario_actual_combos_thread/

(edit) holy **** this guide is cringy af. saying their mostly true combos when about 20% are. dair to DA not true
dair to grab not true, falling uair to anything not true, downthrow to anything is hardly true ever. uptilt to uptilt is not true, they can jump lol, uptilt to backair, etc. dtilt to grab is a bread an butter

 

[JohnnstR]

I know that Uthrow is generally considered better by a majority of Lucario players I've seen/talked to, so I went into testing both throws with that in mind, but in practice I'm having a lot more success with Dthrow, mainly because of the improved hitstun it brings. Damage-wise, anything you can do out of a Dthrow is inferior to Uthrow, yes, but I find it to be a lot more reliable.

If any of you with have two controllers would care to test/record the extreme case DI of both throws for me so I can make a more precise assessment, that'd be very helpful. I'll play around with Uthrow more, but the precision of your inputs when doing Uthrow combos is just so much tighter.

uthrow is infinitely better in every way, the hitstun on dthrow is not greater, and when they are above 100%, you shouldn't even throw them up....

 

[JohnnstR]

Hi! I suppose i'd be called a newbie here, (great guide btw very thorough!) but I'd like to ask some stuff about Lucario since I'm maining him in SSB4. To get to the point what do you think of Lucario's backthrow(if thats what it's called?) for combo'ing? I haven't played immensely because I don't like playing online but when I play with friends I often finds that backthrow>dash attack>dash attack> jump> fair will work fairly often. Is this because the people I'm playing against just aren't good enough to di out of it or is it a legitimately good use of moves?

backthrow to dash attack wrks very well sometimes, but they can tech out of the backthrow, the other stuff they can just jump/airdodge out of and isnt a true combo

 

[Sunnysunny]

Hmm.
I hate to say it, but this guide could be stream lined a lot better. There's some crucial set ups that are missing from it, and a few existing ones that really shouldn't be listed alongside other more viable set ups that just flat out work better for most situations.

As people have said previously, d-throw does not true combo into as much as u-throw and DI is more heavily influenced by it. Not to mention the base damage being lower. The fact that u-air keeps the opponent so close to lucario, is incredibly handy for limiting there options as well and getting more milage out of the characters you can't combo with it at low percent with fast aerial options. Characters that do have a quick falling option that you can't normally frame trap get put into a 50/50 blender if either having to jump or swing. If they swing, they risk getting shield grabbed again into more set ups. While I understand the possibilities of it setting up for nice things exist, I really don't want newcarios to believe that they should be using it over u-throw. They really shouldn't outside of b-air baiting.

The only practical use for D-throw > U-throw is if they're DI'ing to the back of lucario at higher percents as you u-throw them. It sets up well to bait out an airdodge from them and smack em with a b-air thanks to d-throw being easier to DI left and right.

Also U-throw n-air is ridiculous for anyone that doesn't have an absurdly quick option like Luigi's n-air or fast falls like a mother ******. It sets up for another loop of d-tilt, u-throw, n-air, into yet another grab into probs f-air u-air at that point. Air dodging the n-air results in getting grabbed again. The only viable option is to expend there jump, which in turn let's you basically run up and grab them or anti-air them with a sphere.

You're also missing out on mentioning jump cancelled aurasphere charge set ups, which are CRUCIAL to both Lucario's nuetral spacing game and kill potential if you ever want to go anywhere with him.

Shout outs should also be given to certain throw frame traps like b-throw, and f-throw into sphere, and jumped sphere respectively. B-throwing is seriously such an amazing frame trap, even if they tech they sometimes eat it anyways. If you've trained them to tech forward you can even get a grab follow up if you understand the 50/50 you're shubbing em in.

I recommend trimming some of the u-tilt combos, taking out the f-tilt section and d-throw section completely, but giving d-throw an honorable mention for generally having similar u-throw follow ups, and setting up nicely as a DI mix up instead. The f-tilt stuff reallly shouldn't even be listed because you honestly should never be going for something so telegraphed and risky in the nuetral. A good opponent will spend little time shielding and a lot of time moving if you're up that close to them, given how grabs are some of our best options up close.

Ahh.
I dunno.
Juuust.
Could use more work I guess.
Sorry for the rant. = w=