Lucario: Detailed Combo Guide (wip)

[ChillySundance]

I know Lucario has a combo thread already, but I wanted to make a quick, easy reference that goes over all of Lucario's combos and setups in detail, how/when/why they work, when they should be used and such. All of these have been tested extensively in training mode both with and without DI, but if anyone wants to correct my data please feel free to do so.

*NOTE* - I am still in the process of properly testing DI vs down throw. It doesn't seem like CPU's know how to DI this move properly in either direction, wheras they'll DI up throw pretty regularly, so my data may be wrong give or take. It will be edited accordingly.

Overview

Lucario actually isn't as much of a combo-heavy character as one would expect. He has few short true combos and a decent amount of setups that can allow him to control the opponent and make it hard for them to return to neutral. His combos generally serve as a means to rack up damage early on, rather than hit confirm into KO's.

As your Aura/rage increases, so does your knockback and damage. You might think this would greatly vary Lucario's combo game, but most of his attacks that actually lead into reliable combos are not greatly affected by aura in terms of knockback, making his output decently consistent regardless of his percentage.

All of these combos have been tested on Diddy Kong, who is a fairly small target. They should work just as well if not better on larger or faster falling characters. I'll try to post character specific stuff too if I encounter any while testing.

Who Can Lucario Combo?

Lucario is able to use these combos on most mid-weight characters. Fall speed is very important in determining who can be comboed as some of these strings are rather tight. Floaty characters like Luigi and (hilariously) Bowser are just flat out immune to a lot of these combos. I tested Lucario's throw combo at 0-0% on the entire cast. The first set of characters took the entire combo, the second set took the first few hits, and I couldn't produce reliable followups on the last set at all.

Category One:
Mario, Peach, Bowser Jr, Wario, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Little Mac, Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Zero Suit Samus, Pit, Marth, Ike, Robin, Dedede, Metaknight, Fox, Falco, Pikachu, Greninja, ROB, Captain Falcon, Shulk (regular), Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, Lucina, Mega Man, Sonic, Duck Hunt Duo

Category Two:
Rosalina, Yoshi, Mr. Game and Watch, Toon Link, Samus, Palutena, Kirby, Charizard, Jigglypuff, Ness, Villager, Olimar, Pac Man

Category Three:
Luigi, Bowser, Wii Fit Trainer

Legend

= GREEN =
bread and butter combos. These are consistent, barely affected by opponent DI, and start from practical openers. They have a wide damage % range where they can be utilized.

= Orange =
These combos are influenced by opponent DI to a greater degree and will require some finesse to pull off consistently, or they are limited to a small damage % range, meaning your window to perform them is limited.

= Red =
Situational and/or specific to a certain character or stage. You aren't going to be able to do these all the time, or they may be impractical for other reasons.
= Purple =
Not actually a combo, but for all intents and purposes still guarantees some kind of follow up. This usually refers to things like grab setups or combos into grabs. These don't register as combos in training mode.

= Aura Range =
Lucario's general damage %

= Damage Range =
Opponent's damage values

= Damage Output =
Rough idea of the damage dealt from 0% aura to around 140%. Aura and stale moves will vary your output.

Brackets indicate that a portion of the combo may need to be dropped at higher percents

GROUND COMBOS

Up tilt

Utilt is quite a nice little move. It hits all around you with more range than your up smash, and has an initial hit that comes out very fast at your back (about 6 frames) followed by a sweep across to your front. Sadly, a lot of combos from this move require that you land the frontal version, as it has significantly less recovery time before you can move again, so landing it with correct spacing is required to get much out of it. This move is slightly affected by DI, making some of the followups a little tricky. The frontal attack has higher knockback and seems to be more vulnerable to DI, while the back attack tends to pull targets in towards your front more reliably.

Uptilt > Utilt
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 25% - 50% lower with higher aura.
Damage Output: around 11%

Despite how it may look sometimes, Up tilt actually doesn't combo into itself outside of very specific percents. You're going to need a bit of aura (I managed to get this to start comboing at 25% at around 40% aura) and striking with the front part of the up tilt makes it a lot easier to hit with the next part of the attack. At higher percents you'll want to attempt to use the reverse up tilt, due to it having less knockback. Sadly, Lucario cannot combo into any of his aerials after the 2nd Uptilt.

Frontal Utilt > (Shorthop)Jump > Fair > jump > (Fair/Uair/Bair)
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: between 30% and 115% at low aura, with higher aura decreasing the damage range's ceiling. At 150% aura, it's impossible on an opponent who's damage ratio is higher than 60%
Damage Output: 11-27%

This combo seems like it should be intuitive, but it's affected by opponent DI and opponents who DI behind Lucario (this happens fairly often accidentally if you're hitting with the front of the attack, which is almost required for this combo to work) then it puts you in an awkward spot where you'll have to jump straight up and C stick forward in order to land the followup. The input for the Fair is extremely tight and needs to be executed perfectly almost the second Lucario leaves the ground after his jump. Sometimes the hitboxes will be weird and your opponent will end up going behind you after the first Fair. In this case, it's actually possible to combo into a Bair, but doing so is a rare treat. If you strike with the front of Fair though, you should be able to do this very consistently with some practice.

Utilt > (Shorthop) Jump > Uair > Uair
Aura Range: 0% to around 60%
Damage Range: 60% - 80%
Damage output: 19-27%

Like the previous Fair combo, but a bit more finnicky and vulnerable to DI. You have to full jump into Uair or it won't work, and due to Uair having such a linear hitbox, you have to follow the opponent's DI correctly both times. Utilt > Uair in itself is also good when coming off of a backwards Utilt at higher percents.

Utilt > Footstool Jump > Dair
Aura range: 0% and up
Damage Range: between 15% and 115% with higher aura decreasing the Damage Range cieling.
Damage output: 6-18%

Gimmicky, but strangely reliable little "combo". This can do more damage against bigger opponents since on smaller characters, the first hit of Dair will miss. Due to the hitbox of a footstool jump being instant and quite generous, Lucario is actually able to land it against the flying opponent faster than his other aerials, making it a decent option to combo at low percents. Unfortunately, damage is quite low, but it does put the opponent in a good position for a followup. This is most easily performed at low aura. Mashing the jump button to get the footstool can help for smaller characters where timing is tricky. It's mainly only useful at low percents though, as you'll want to use the more damaging Fair and Uair followups instead.

This is also the only legit low % combo you're going to get off of a Utilt that hits from behind (other than comboing into itself at mid percents)

Frontal Utilt > Jab Combo
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: between 0% and 30%
Damage Output: 8%

Lazy little combo for low percent. Kind of useless since there's better things you can do out of a Utilt at this percent, as well as the 3rd hit of your combo sometimes not landing. It gets an orange due to wonky hitboxes, but otherwise it's easy enough to do.

Frontal Utilt > Grab > Dthrow/Uthrow > jump > Fair > Jump > Fair > (Fair/Uair)
Aura Range: 0% to 130%
Damage Range: between 0% and 30%
Damage Output: 20 - 33% (not including pummels)

A fantastic way to rack up damage on a freshly KOed opponent's second stock if you can land an early Utilt from the front. Lucario's grab comes out so fast that this is pretty much a true combo. Keep in mind, you won't be able to land the last Fair once you have over 50% aura. If you're very quick you may be able to get a pummel or two in before throwing. If the opponent Di's towards you on the 2nd Fair, you can sometimes follow up with Uair for more damage.

Frontal Utilt > Jump > Nair
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: between 40% and 130%
Damage Output: 8% - 130%

Nair's hitbox is so weird and specific that this combo is often a lot harder to land than its worth. You can't just jump straight up and Nair since the timing has to be absolutely perfect and if the opponent DI's into you, the Nair's hitbox will miss. You need to move backwards slightly while throwing out the Nair to guarantee a hit. The main reason you'll want to use this over the other strings is because at lower-mid percents (around 40-60% range) the Nair sets you up for a grab, since it dumps the opponent right in front of Lucario into an airborne state where they'll have to air dodge very close to the ground or eat a throw, which opens them up for another throw or Utilt anyway.

Frontal Utilt > Jump > Bair
Aura Range: 0% > 50%
Damage Range: 90% > 115%
Damage output 13%

Well, it combos, but it's definitely not practical or easy to land. The opponent needs to DI behind you in order for this to work, but it links in training mode on Diddy at least, even though you really have no reason to try to do this, ever.

Frontal Utilt > Full Jump > Fair > Full Jump > Fully Charged Aura Sphere
Aura Range: 100% - 150%
Damage Range: 20% - 50%, ceiling decreases with aura gain
Damage output: 36%- 44%

Out of all the Fully Charged High Aura Power Aura Sphere combos, this one is probably the most consistent. Too bad it doesn't start from a grab, so actually finding time to land it will be tricky, but boy does it hit hard.

Down Tilt

Dtilt is an interesting little move. At first it seems like it has no combo options due to its low hitstun, but it has a very stable knockback that doesn't change much as you or your opponent take damage. This makes it good for setting up situations where the opponent will need to air dodge low or eat your followup..

Dtilt > Dash Attack
Aura Range: 0% - 90%
Damage Range: 30% - 65%
Damage Output: 8% - 12%

Using the C-stick for an immediate dash attack is recommended. This gets harder and harder to combo as Lucario gains Aura, so it's better to try and use this when his Aura is low. It doesn't do a lot of damage, but puts the opponent in a prime position for a followup.

Dtilt > Jab Combo
Aura Range: 0% - 90%
Damage Range: 0% - 10%
Damage Output: 8% - 13%

Nice and straightforward. It only works at very low percents though, so you won't get to use this much.

Dtilt > Running Jump > Fair
Aura Range: 0% - 90%
Damage Range: 70% - 100%
Damage Output: 8% - 10%

This is a strange one. It works best when Lucario is around 40% aura, only works for a relatively small damage range window, and doesn't offer a lot for how difficult it is to pull off. You need to be standing right next to the opponent to get it to work, so it will rarely combo against an opponent DI-ing away from you. That said, if the opponent air dodges to avoid your Fair, they'll hit the ground and be in a prime position for a Dair.

Dtilt > Running Grab > Dthrow/Uthrow> Jump > Fair > Jump > Fair > (Fair/Uair)
Aura Range: 0% - 70%
Damage Range: 10% - 70% with ceiling decreasing as you gain aura
Damage Output: 19% - 30%

Very reliable early damage, but you need to be fairly close for it to be an airtight setup in most cases. Still an excellent opening combo and less punishable than the Utilt variant.

Forward Tilt

Forward Tilt allows Lucario to move fairly soon after throwing it out, making it a decently safe poke. It tends to send opponents flying too far forward to really combo off...usually. If you running pivot into the move and hit with the back part of it, you can send the opponent flying behind Lucario and right into perfect range for a followup. This approach is a little risky since you have to be within grab range for it to register as a hit, but it's pretty quick and can be treated sort of like an alternative to dashing grab or dash attack.

Pivot Reverse Ftilt > Running Grab > Down Throw > Jump > Fair > Jump > Fair > (Fair)
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 10% - 70% with ceiling decreasing as you gain aura
Damage Output: 19% - 49%

A rather nasty and surprisingly reliable combo if you can get close enough to land the reversed Ftilt. The nice thing about Ftilt is that it hits twice, making it much harder to powershield, meaning you're less likely to get punished for attempting this over a raw dash grab. It's also way less laggy so there's that too.

Angling Ftilt downwards helps with the followup, but may cause the 2nd hit to miss.

Pivot Reverse Ftilt > Dtilt/Dash attack
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 0% - 60% with ceiling decreasing as you gain aura
Damage Output: 11% - 26%

A dash attack alternative to the above combo, for when you need that tiny bit of extra range on the followup. Dtilt only works at very very low percents, like the 0%-10% range for both yourself and the opponent.

Dash Attack

Lucario's Dash Attack has two hitboxes. A sweetspot at the beginning, and a sour spot towards the end of the move. In both cases this attack has a similar properties to Dtilt in that it puts the opponent close to the ground and gives Lucario the freedom to follow up easily even if it may not guarantee many useful combos.

Dash Attack > Grab > UThrow/Dthrow > Jump > Fair
Aura Range: 0% - 60%
Damage Range: 5% - 20%
Damage Output: 17% - 24

Look familiar? It's the same principle as the Utilt and Dtilt grab 'combos' before it. Unfortunately it's not quite as reliable. More so if you land the sweet spot, but that tends to pop opponents up a bit too high to follow. I'm also not 100% sure it's inescapable compared to the others, as lucario's grab and jab both have the same frames, and you cannot combo Dash Attack into jab.

Throws

He's no Diddy Kong, but Lucario's grab game is excellent. His standing grab has 6 frames of startup while his running grab has 7, both with deceptive range. Lucario can convert his grabs into damage through combos up until higher percents, and even combo into one of his weaker KO moves quite reliably.

Down Throw

There seems to be divided opinion amongst Lucario mains as to which is better for combos - Down throw or Up Throw. I initially preferred Down Throw for a few reasons. It offered a much better angle of attack for the followup and has a lot more hit stun. It does throw opponents farther up at lower percentages compared to Up throw, but unfortunately it is possible for opponents to escape any followups simply by holding away from Lucario. If they DON'T DI it correctly though, it continues to be relevant at higher percents whereas Up Throw soon reaches the point where you can't follow it up due to launching too high.

Since all Down throw combos can be escaped with DI, they're going to be listed as orange combos, but these combos are still good to attempt when your opponent has started religiously DI'ing Up throw correctly.
Dthrow > Jump > Fair > (Jump > Fair > Fair/Uair)
Aura Range: 0% - 110%
Damage Range: 0% - 120%
Damage Output: 16% - 28%

You've seen this before earlier in the guide, now here it is in isolation.

Fair typically comes out at the start of your jump, but at higher percents you may need to double jump in order to follow up from a down throw. It does, however, lose value at very high percents where you'll want to try to combo into Uair instead for a KO, assuming the opponent doesn't DI away.

Dthrow > (Double) Jump > Uair
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 65% - 120% ceiling decreasing with aura buildup
Damage Output: 8% - 22%

This is a KO-from-throw option. It can be a bit tricky to land due to DI starting to affect Lucario's Dthrow at this high percent, but that's what the double jump is for, since you do have enough time to read the opponent's DI enough to follow them and secure the hit (so long as they don't DI away from Lucario).

Dthrow > jump > Nair
Aura Range 0% and up
Damage Range: 0% and up
Damage Output: 9% - 22%

Sure, you can do this, but it's a more finicky and generally less effective version of the Fair combo. The only reason you want to do this is on large characters, where you can sometimes get the 2nd hit of Nair off and follow into a landing grab, which is as awesome as it sounds WHEN it works.

Dthrow > Full Jump > Fair > Full Jump > Fully Charged Aura Sphere
Aura Range: 100% -150%
Damage Range: 10%
Damage Output: 38%- 45%

You have a bit more wiggle room hitstun-wise to pull this off compared to the Upthrow variant, but it's still hard and somewhat specific, An absolutely devastating combo for when you've got a stock and aura lead on your opponent.

Up Throw

Uthrow is considered to be generally better than Down throw, as while it's still affected by DI and has a less favorable launch angle, it always puts the opponent in a position where some sort of followup is guaranteed. You use this move in much the same way as Down throw, with the main differences being that it launches opponents a bit lower at low percents, is affected more strongly by DI and air control post-launch, and has less hitstun, meaning your followups need to be very tight in order to make anything off it. The lack of hitstun compared to Dthrow is especially unfortunate, as it means you rarely have time to follow and react to opponent DI, as your input needs to be buffered the second the opponent leaves the ground.

This wouldn't be an issue if Lucario had Diddy Kong's up air, but unfortunately your followup comes from either Uair or Fair, the former of which has a narrow, precise hitbox and the latter of which has a dead spot conveniently behind Lucario's ears, which just so happens to be the best place for the opponent to DI.

DI'ing behind Lucario after an up throw does make some of these longer combos very hard if not impossible to pull off, which is when you should consider starting to use Dthrow instead to try to catch the opponent off guard and force them to DI incorrectly.

Uthrow also does 3% more damage compared to Dthrow, which is always nice.

Uthrow > Jump > Fair > (Jump > Fair > Fair/Uair)
Aura Range: 0% - 150%
Damage Range: 0% - 70%
Damage Output: 19% - 39%

One of Lucario's most damaging and practical combos. You'll generally be able to get the bracketed parts of the combo at lower percents, as higher aura and opponent percentages send them flying too far as they accumulate, but it still remains very consistent throughout the course of a stock. Opponents can DI over Lucario's head, making it very hard to follow up throw with Fair, but this can be countered by jumping backwards while using the C-stick to input aerials.

Uthrow > Jump > Uair > (Jump > Uair)
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 30% - 70% (10% at high aura)
Damage Output: 21% - 39%

Uair is a bit easier to land out of Uthrow at mid percents, though DI is still sometimes an issue. If the opponent DI's to either direction, it's going to be tricky to nail them. IF you can get it though, this combo does a lot of damage. At higher aura (like around 150%) you can do this immediately to an opponent's fresh stock for a very high damage combo.

Uthrow > Nair
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 30% - 80%
Damage Output: 12% - 30%

I hate dealing with Nair and its awkward hitbox, but this is at least easier to land than Uair at lower percents, and it does follow up into a neat grab setup on larger characters as explained earlier. Can be DI'd at higher to mid percents, so it's best used early or not at all.

Uthrow > Full Jump > Fair > Full Jump > (Fair) > Fully Charged Aura Sphere
Aura Range: 100% and up
Damage Range: 0%
Damage Output: 49

Really hard to pull off, but worth it if you've accumulated a bunch of Aura and you manage to grab your opponent out of a fresh stock. In order to get this to chain, the stars do have to align a bit - your opponent needs to not DI behind you after the Uthrow as this combo requires momentum to carry. After that, you need to use Aura Sphere immediately at the start of your 2nd Air jump, then steer yourself as close to the opponent as possible. Against some characters you may need to drop the 2nd Fair.

Air Combos

Most of Lucario's air options come from his forward or up air, both of which are equally quick to start and can string into themselves (or each other) at least once. So if you hit an airborne opponent with a Fair out of a jump you can generally double jump into another Fair and so on. For this reason, this part of the guide is only going to be covering air-to-ground combos, which are a bit less straightforward. A bit.

Fishing for these combos WILL get you punished, so exercise caution.

Forward Air

Fair is a quick move with a wide cone of damage in front, below, and a little bit above Lucario. It's fast enough to hit standing opponents when done immediately from a short hop, but doesn't really have much of a lingering hitbox, so it's surprisingly poor at punishing air dodges.

Landing Fair > Running Jump > Fair > Jump > Fair
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 0% - 75% with ceiling decreasing as you gain aura
Damage Output: 11% - 26%

While air to ground approaches are kind of unsafe in smash 4 for a lot of characters, doing this out of a short hop at lower percents can be worth it. It helps to have some momentum when doing this combo.

Landing Fair > Running Jump > Fair > (Jump) Fully Charged Aura Sphere
Aura Range: 70% and up
Damage Range: 0% - 75% with ceiling decreasing as you gain aura
Damage Output: 26%

As far as fully charged aura sphere combos go, this one's pretty reliable. You still need a decent amount of aura for it to work, and it does start from an unsafe air opener (if your Fair is blocked, at 70% you're kind of screwed and you're going to eat an OOS up smash) but it works as long as you can chain Fair to Fair.

Up Air

It's very hard to land a falling Uair against a mobile opponent. That said, the move has a sweet spot and a short lingering sour spot. Only the sweet spot is good for combos early on. The hitbox is tiny and narrow, but on the plus side it can cross up shields if you overshoot your target slightly, making it a bit harder to punish.

(Short Hop Fast Falled) Landing Sweetspot Uair > Jump > Uair
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 50% - 70% with ceiling decreasing as you gain aura, and floor decreasing as you gain aura
Damage Output: 14% - 32%

This combo only gets an orange rating because of how hard it is to land a fast falled Uair sweetspot on some characters. More often than not, you're going to get the sour spot variant instead, which works at higher percents.

(Short Hop Fast Falled) Landing Sourspot Uair > Jump > Uair
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 90% - 145% with ceiling decreasing as you gain aura, and floor decreasing as you gain aura
Damage Output: 10% - 25%

The wimpier, easier variant of the combo above. At higher percents you're going to want to nail this over the sweetspot version because it sets up for a Uair KO. Goes without saying that this is much easier to land on taller or bigger characters.

(Short Hop Fast Falled) Landing Uair > Utilt
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 30% - 50%, floor decreases with aura
Damage Output: 10% - 21%

Flashy, specific, and kind of useless. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to follow this up with anything. It really looks like you should be able to tack on another Uair at the end, but that probably would have been too much fun allowed.

(Short Hop Fast Falled) Landing Sweetspot(Sourspot) Uair > Grab > Upthrow/Dthrow > Fair/Uair > Jump > Fair/Uair
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 30%(sweetspot), 50% - 70%(sourspot) affected by aura
Damage Output: 19% - 21%

Way more fiddly with percentages than it needs to be, but very damaging and maybe worth doing against bigger opponents. You can also substitute a jab combo instead of grabs for no reason other than to prove that the grab will 'combo'. I don't think that needs to be listed as its own combo.

Neutral Air

Nair has decent horizontal range and hitting a standing opponent with it at low percents will cause them to slide and sometimes trip. It also has barely any landing lag, allowing us to do some interesting things with it before it starts sending the opponent flying. All of these combos assume that you landed Nair as close as possible.

Short Hop Fast Falled Landing Nair > Running Grab > Dthrow/Uthrow > Jump > Fair/Uair > Jump > Fair/Uair
Aura Range: 0% and up
Damage Range: 10%-80%, ceiling decreases as you gain aura
Damage Output: 16% - 27%

A nice, relatively safe way to rack up damage from a short hop approach at low percents, though the more aura you have, the harder it gets to pull off that grab. You can use a jab combo too instead of a grab at very low percents but it's not worth listing as opponents quickly end up outside of your range.

Short Hop Fast Falled Landing Nair > Dash Attack
Aura Range: 0% - 90%
Damage Range: 50% - 120% ceiling decreases with aura
Damage Output: 10% - 16%

For when Nair starts sending people flying back too far for your dash grab to land. You need some forward momentum for this to work. Even if it gets air dodged, it usually sets up for a nice followup, as the opponent is very close to the ground.

Short Hop Fast Falled Landing Nair > Dtilt
Aura Range: 0% - 80%
Damage Range: 30% - 50%
Damage output: 8% - 14%

A bit easier than the other options, but only works at very specific percents by comparison, so not really something you can rely on.

Short Hop Fast Falled Landing Nair > Fully Charged Aura Sphere
Aura Range: 0%and up
Damage Range: 30% - 90%
Damage output: 16% - 38%

This will only work as an actual combo under two conditions: The opponent trips when hit by the Nair (good luck with that, it's like a 10% chance) or they fail to tech Nair at higher percents. While this is classified as a red combo, it's actually not a bad option, especially when you have more aura and a larger aura sphere. At higher percents, it puts the opponent in a very tricky situation where they can't really air dodge the Aura Sphere without landing and getting hit anyway, and at lower percents it allows you to attempt a tech chase, since they'll still get hit by the aura sphere if they tech backwards most of the time, and will set themselves up for grabs if they tech forwards or spot tech.

Down Air

Dair is one of Lucario's strongest tools, but it's not quite as good as it was back in Brawl. This attack halts Lucario's aerial momentum, comes out extremely fast and has two hits. It has a decent vertical hitbox but is very narrow, meaning you need to be right above an opponent to really do anything with it.

As far as combos go, Dair's applications are limited, but there's a couple of neat things you can do with it at low and high percents.

Dair > Dash attack
Aura Range: 0% - 100%
Damage Range: 0% - 35%
Damage output: 12% - 20%

You have to do Dair immediately upon leaving the ground. At low percents and with minimal aura you can quickly combo this into a dash attack. This combo isn't really all that impressive but as dash attack is 6 frames, it does tell us that we can...

Dair > Running grab > Dthrow/Uthrow > Jump > Fair > Fair > (Fair)
Aura range: 0% - 60%
Damage range: 0% - 35%
Damage output: 19% - 38%

Another way to open with an attack into grab for lots of damage at low aura, but it has quite a small window of application.

Dair 1st hit > Force Palm
Aura range: 0% and up
Damage range: 50% and up
Damage output: 15%

Not really a guaranteed combo, but a pretty reliable setup. If the opponent air dodges the Force Palm grab, they eat the flame on the way down.

(more coming later)

 

[young grasshopper]

combos that work in training don't always work in normal battles because training mode doesn't have fresh/stale moves

 

[ChillySundance]

That's kind of besides the point, but yeah that's true. I did mention that stale moves would vary the results in the opening. That said, I have tested these combos in real matches against lv 9 cpu's, who airdodge -everything- perfectly, and the results are pretty consistent. (it's one of the only ways I can test DI without a human training partner)

 

[young grasshopper]

That's kind of besides the point, but yeah that's true. I did mention that stale moves would vary the results in the opening. That said, I have tested these combos in real matches against lv 9 cpu's, who airdodge -everything- perfectly, and the results are pretty consistent. (it's one of the only ways I can test DI without a human training partner)

oh, I guess I should have read the entire OP before criticizing. When will I learn?

 

[Meek Moths]

wow thanks for this combo guide! now i know what should i avoid while fighting lucario >:D

sincerely, a zelda main

 

[Kami~]

You should NEVER use dthrow over upthrow below like 100%

actually even then, it's not better

 

[hichez50]

Unless you are playing doubles.

 

[ChillySundance]

You should NEVER use dthrow over upthrow below like 100%

actually even then, it's not better

Dthrow is way more reliable overall, I explained why in my posts. I've done extensive testing with both, and Uthrow is just too strongly influenced by DI to be as versatile even if the damage payoff is much higher.

 

[Kami~]

lmao are you kidding, upthrow is extremely easy to link with fairs or upairs.

Dthrow is the easily di'able one. you can di miles away where the lucario can't come near you or followup

upthrow sends them above you and there is little di room and is by far the easiest link to fair > upair/fair/nair

and also lol at uptilt to bair. Have you been playing people that dont have an airdodge button?

 

[ChillySundance]

All of these were done in training mode and actually linked as real combos, using timestop and changing the CPU to attack mode at lv 9 between hits, as stated in the original post. So yes, Utilt to Bair was a real combo against Diddy kong that registered as 2 hits. Are you going to contest that?

I have tested Dthrow PERSONALLY against a CPU lucario (it likes to Dthrow a lot and can be easily goaded into doing so by holding down shield) in slow motion with perfect DI, and the DI influence is minimal compared to Upthrow.

 

[Kami~]

All of these were done in training mode and actually linked as real combos, using timestop and changing the CPU to attack mode at lv 9 between hits, as stated in the original post. So yes, Utilt to Bair was a real combo against Diddy kong that registered as 2 hits. Are you going to contest that?

for some reason i can't believe uptilt to the slowest aerial would work, i'd like to see proof then i'll shutup. actually what %'s so I can try to replicate it?

And maybe because you used cpu's you don't realize how di'able dthrow is.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

The training mode combo counter isn't entirely accurate all the time. If you can find somebody to test these with to try to verify them it would be a lot more credible but until then everything's going to have to be taken with a grain of salt :/

 

[Meek Moths]

Kami, thats because you mainly play 4glory so people dont know how to escape your combos. up throw is just easily escaped by simply ding and quickly jumping

 

[ChillySundance]

for some reason i can't believe uptilt to the slowest aerial would work, i'd like to see proof then i'll shutup. actually what %'s so I can try to replicate it?

And maybe because you used cpu's you don't realize how di'able dthrow is.

maybe if you read the actual guide, you'd find the exact %'s I got it to work.

Also, see above. I have tested Dthrow manually and it's not really affected much by DI at all.

 

[Kami~]

Kami, thats because you mainly play 4glory so people dont know how to escape your combos. up throw is just easily escaped by simply ding and quickly jumping

oh so it doesn't work? because im pretty damn sure i've got it on people like nairo, strong bad, dakpo ect. You have no idea what you're talking about and don't know what i do so **** off. I could easily prove to you how much better it is if you ever wanted to play.

If anything neither of you know anything about the char and havent played a single competent person.
hopefully one day some people who actually play the character will make a worthy guide

 

[ChillySundance]

Hard data doesn't lie though, and that's exactly what this guide is about. All of these are true combos and mileage may vary to some degree thanks to DI, but you can't argue with the numbers.

So yeah, get off your high horse. I've written detailed posts about why I like Dthrow better for combos. Even with DI it always puts the opponent in a position that can be reliably followed up with Fair's cone, wheras Uthrow has a chance for them to go entirely behind you making it quite awkward to land Fair and even Uair at times by comparison.

 

[Meek Moths]

oh so it doesn't work? because im pretty damn sure i've got it on people like nairo, strong bad, dakpo ect. You have no idea what you're talking about and don't know what i do so **** off. I could easily prove to you how much better it is if you ever wanted to play.

If anything neither of you know anything about the char and havent played a single competent person.
hopefully one day some people who actually play the character will make a worthy guide

did you really tell me to **** off? why are you being so aggresive without a point?

reported

 

[Kami~]

Hard data doesn't lie though, and that's exactly what this guide is about. All of these are true combos and mileage may vary to some degree thanks to DI, but you can't argue with the numbers.

So yeah, get off your high horse. I've written detailed posts about why I like Dthrow better for combos. Even with DI it always puts the opponent in a position that can be reliably followed up with Fair's cone, wheras Uthrow has a chance for them to go entirely behind you making it quite awkward to land Fair and even Uair at times by comparison.

Apparently you dont use a cstick? thats the best di to upthrow but easily countered by upair or reversing fair. I wouldnt expect you to know what a cstick is with your sideways wiimote you probably use though. Upair is the best option with that di and it isnt hard to land at all in that scenario. ok i need to stop arguing with sub par lucario mains (and random no name lucina mains too?) before i get infracted more than I already am

 

[ChillySundance]

Apparently you dont use a cstick? thats the best di to upthrow but easily countered by upair or reversing fair. I wouldnt expect you to know what a cstick is with your sideways wiimote you probably use though. Upair is the best option with that di and it isnt hard to land at all in that scenario. ok i need to stop arguing with sub par lucario mains (and random no name lucina mains too?) before i get infracted more than I already am

Amusingly, I mentioned jumpback C-stick in the guide. So no, try again.
Your reading comprehension isn't that great, is it?

 

[Meek Moths]

. ok i need to stop arguing with sub par lucario mains (and random no name lucina mains too?) before i get infracted more than I already am

lolz, you call me no name which is true but to be honest i never heard of you either…you really think too much of yourself, there are other peeps playing the game too ya know

 

[Kami~]

Amusingly, I mentioned jumpback C-stick in the guide. So no, try again.
Your reading comprehension isn't that great, is it?

Your guide isn't worth anyones time, was afraid I might think something in it was actually legit and try to use it.

 

[ChillySundance]

Your guide isn't worth anyones time, was afraid I might think something in it was actually legit and try to use it.

But your input isn't really worth anything, considering you've demonstrated twice now that you haven't even read most of the content you're trying to criticize. All you've done is come in here and started insulting people without providing any kind of data of your own to correct or contribute.

 

[Kami~]

But your input isn't really worth anything, considering you've demonstrated twice now that you haven't even read most of the content you're trying to criticize. All you've done is come in here and started insulting people without providing any kind of data of your own to correct or contribute.

Your guide meant nothing after i saw you thought dthrow was better and the amazing uptilt bair combo. But ok im out

goodluck in your for glory adventures along with random lucina main

 

[ChillySundance]

Did you maybe miss the part where Utilt Bair is a red combo? As explained in the legend, red means it's hardly 'amazing', and entirely impractical, and is basically only in the list because it -can- register as a combo in training mode. It only works at specific percents if the opponent Di's a frontal Utilt behind you, and only against fastfalling characters like Diddy.

Not making yourself look good here, buddy.

 

[Meek Moths]

Your guide meant nothing after i saw you thought dthrow was better and the amazing uptilt bair combo. But ok im out

goodluck in your for glory adventures along with random lucina main

ok fight me imma post you my ID but first i have to walk the dog pls wait

 

[Dakpo]

Yummy
I name searched into some beautiful drama

 

[Empire~]

Sweet drama Kreygasm

also, nice guide but I think u-throw is way better than d-throw pls no flamerino

 

[ChillySundance]

I know that Uthrow is generally considered better by a majority of Lucario players I've seen/talked to, so I went into testing both throws with that in mind, but in practice I'm having a lot more success with Dthrow, mainly because of the improved hitstun it brings. Damage-wise, anything you can do out of a Dthrow is inferior to Uthrow, yes, but I find it to be a lot more reliable.

If any of you with have two controllers would care to test/record the extreme case DI of both throws for me so I can make a more precise assessment, that'd be very helpful. I'll play around with Uthrow more, but the precision of your inputs when doing Uthrow combos is just so much tighter.

 

[Steam]

Uthrow and Dthrow are both viable options, though Uthrow is much more solid. Dthrow followups can be completely avoided by DIing away, while with Uthrow you can always follow up at mid/higher%s. though at low% followups can be hard/less rewarding if they DI behind you. This is where Dthrow can be useful because if you predict they're DIing behind you for Uthrow, you can Dthrow instead and they've just set themselves up.

 

[ChillySundance]

Ok, so DI'ing away from Lucario during Dthrow negates his ability to follow up with Fair? Are you sure it's not possible at all? I'm still going to test it properly when I have the means to do so, but it seemed to me that you could likely still tag on a Fair with a running jump, even at maximum horizontal DI.

I noticed that Uthrow tends to become impossible to follow up on much sooner due to launching people far higher than Dthrow as their percentage rises. Even at middling percents where it should be able to link, the combo window is just too tight to really follow with two full jumps, aerial position, and land a Uair sometimes. Uthrow definately has a lot less hit stun than Dthrow.

Either way it would definitely remove some of the additional Fair followups. I may change the green Dair combos into Orange ones and mention that they are DI-able for the time being.

 

[Steam]

just have someone hold away when you Dthrow them, you can't even get close before they can jump away. Dthrow does have more hitstun and is much easier to combo out of if they don't DI away, buuuut if they do DI away you pretty much get nothing.

 

[ChillySundance]

Edited to include the Dthrow/Uthrow mixup information as well as a bunch of full charge aura sphere combos, though I'm unsure if those are DI-able too. They seem like they're only just working half of the time.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

DI is a good reason to use Dthrow over Uthrow.

Also first hit of dair combos into Force Palm guaranteed, but it's not easy to do in game.

 

[Space thing]

DI is a good reason to use Dthrow over Uthrow.

Also first hit of dair combos into Force Palm guaranteed, but it's not easy to do in game.

You can do it against an opponent who missed their tech pretty easily, just do it at the edge of their hurtbox. This actually seems to work at any real percent, though I haven't checked against every character (boweser jr is weird, i know that much). Using a normal grab should work to, if that makes more sense given the situation.

 

[|RK|]

I see shorthopped dair to FPG has been mentioned. It requires relatively high percents, though. At low percents, both hits of dair will hit.

In training mode it works when Mario and Lucario are at 50%. But I wouldn't trust that too much.

 

[ChillySundance]

I'll list that one when I do my next update. It can be a useful kill confirm out of shield if done properly.

Red Ryu, I'm a bit confused by your post! Are you saying that Dthrow should be used for the reasons outlined in this guide (to discourage people from DI'ing up throw correctly) or that it's still reliable even with DI away from Lucario? Because if it's the latter, then I'm getting conflicting information.

I really need to get a second controller.

 

[Jay-kun]

Yo, nice(?) guide..?? (no sarcasm-->?) I don't understand is this for Lucario newbies.. ._. I kind of agree with Kami~ about this guide being a waste of time to read (for fairly experienced Lucario mains or maybe anyone)...Yooo like I mean I don't know about anyone else here but I think there is a difference (or should be) between "combos" and playing Smash. Alright, think about it.. up-throw into u-air..ummm lolwut. If the opponent is above you even noobs will OBVIOUSLY DO A UP-AIR. If the opponent is knocked in front of you well use THE DAM FORWARD AIR..f-air to f-air, an aggressive noob will have used all of these already..You can reject me like Kami~.. I just wish there was a combo thread for experienced or more competitive players.. =_=



^
^
^ <- <- <- constructive critism ftw..?

 

[ChillySundance]

you're not really understanding the point of this guide, and that's hardly constructive criticism either. You can use all the awkward accents you want, but it's not covering up the contempt behind your post.

Because smash is a game with such a high amount of variables, not everything you think is going to combo will actually combo. Lucario even being able to combo up throw into Fair, or Fair into Fair s a luxury that a lot of other characters do not share, even though it may seem natural to string together moves like that. The game just doesn't allow it outside of specific circumstances for specific characters.

Take Duck Hunt dog for example. An 'aggressive noob' as you would put it, would want to do down throw into jumping forward air, because it's intuitive right? However, that is not a combo even though lot looks like it absolutely should be one.

These combos may seem straightforward, but in order to actually get them to land correctly under optimal circumstances, you need to account for a lot of other things, like player DI, positioning, etc. That's what this guide talks about, as well as serving as a detailed list of all known and functional combos for Lucario. This isn't something that's obvious for a lot of players. Without knowing what moves actually combo into others, a player may just throw out moves in the hope that they're doing a legit combo. And that's not even accounting for some of the specific stuff, like needing momentum in order to carry a combo or landing the opener at a certain range.

You can't compare Smash 4's combo style to a highly technical combo-oriented game like Blazblue or Tekken, where you have to account for multiple string inputs and positive-frame links. So yes, up throw to up air needs to be listed as a combo, because it IS actually a combo in a game where doing that with many other characters would result in the opponent being able to air dodge.

You can't really have a combo thread for more experienced or competitive players in this game, because true combos rarely extend beyond 2-3 attacks. What are you going to talk about? All of lucario's POSSIBLE KNOWN combos are covered here in detail. If you want a guide for more competitive application, then you should be reading a guide on Lucario's neutral game, yomi, or non-combo oriented stuff like setups, edgeguarding and strings that lead into openings. (a bit of that is actually covered in this guide too, the strings part that is)

This is a list of all Lucario's true combos, how to do them, when to apply them, what they do, and under what conditions they'll work, as a topic of reference. It's very standard fare and you will see guides like these for any fighting game. I don't get why people seem to be struggling to comprehend this.

The Greninja boards have exactly the same kind of guide and I noticed nobody was doing it here, so took it upon myself to do so. All of this stuff has to get documented eventually and put into a readable format. So don't be ignorant.

 

[User52]

Yo, nice(?) guide..?? (no sarcasm-->?) I don't understand is this for Lucario newbies.. ._. I kind of agree with Kami~ about this guide being a waste of time to read (for fairly experienced Lucario mains or maybe anyone)...Yooo like I mean I don't know about anyone else here but I think there is a difference (or should be) between "combos" and playing Smash. Alright, think about it.. up-throw into u-air..ummm lolwut. If the opponent is above you even noobs will OBVIOUSLY DO A UP-AIR. If the opponent is knocked in front of you well use THE DAM FORWARD AIR..f-air to f-air, an aggressive noob will have used all of these already..You can reject me like Kami~.. I just wish there was a combo thread for experienced or more competitive players.. =_=



^
^
^ <- <- <- constructive critism ftw..?

1. Smash isn't like that, there's variables like their damage, your rage, your aura, their DI, air dodges, ect.
2. There are new players and people who want to be better (like me), and putting it all in one place helps with both of those things, not to mention all the info on conditions being helpful. You might know this stuff, but not everyone does.
3. How exactly are you going to have any combos longer than these in Smash 4? Anything longer is a chase and mind games.

I really don't see why this is a waste, or why Kami~ is being so hateful.

Anyway, good guide, I completely forgot F-Air>Aura Sphere. As for D-Throw vs. U-Throw, it's completely based on fall speed and percent and DI. I prefer U-Throw mostly but it doesn't work all the time, so I mix it up. Really though, start off by using the one that works better on the opposing character. No need to argue about it, either, the better one will always work more and people will learn.

 

[Jay-kun]

you're not really understanding the point of this guide, and that's hardly constructive criticism either. You can use all the awkward accents you want, but it's not covering up the contempt behind your post.

Because smash is a game with such a high amount of variables, not everything you think is going to combo will actually combo. Lucario even being able to combo up throw into Fair, or Fair into Fair s a luxury that a lot of other characters do not share, even though it may seem natural to string together moves like that. The game just doesn't allow it outside of specific circumstances for specific characters.

Take Duck Hunt dog for example. An 'aggressive noob' as you would put it, would want to do down throw into jumping forward air, because it's intuitive right? However, that is not a combo even though lot looks like it absolutely should be one.

These combos may seem straightforward, but in order to actually get them to land correctly under optimal circumstances, you need to account for a lot of other things, like player DI, positioning, etc. That's what this guide talks about, as well as serving as a detailed list of all known and functional combos for Lucario. This isn't something that's obvious for a lot of players. Without knowing what moves actually combo into others, a player may just throw out moves in the hope that they're doing a legit combo. And that's not even accounting for some of the specific stuff, like needing momentum in order to carry a combo or landing the opener at a certain range.

You can't compare Smash 4's combo style to a highly technical combo-oriented game like Blazblue or Tekken, where you have to account for multiple string inputs and positive-frame links. So yes, up throw to up air needs to be listed as a combo, because it IS actually a combo in a game where doing that with many other characters would result in the opponent being able to air dodge.

You can't really have a combo thread for more experienced or competitive players in this game, because true combos rarely extend beyond 2-3 attacks. What are you going to talk about? All of lucario's POSSIBLE KNOWN combos are covered here in detail. If you want a guide for more competitive application, then you should be reading a guide on Lucario's neutral game, yomi, or non-combo oriented stuff like setups, edgeguarding and strings that lead into openings. (a bit of that is actually covered in this guide too, the strings part that is)

This is a list of all Lucario's true combos, how to do them, when to apply them, what they do, and under what conditions they'll work, as a topic of reference. It's very standard fare and you will see guides like these for any fighting game. I don't get why people seem to be struggling to comprehend this.

The Greninja boards have exactly the same kind of guide and I noticed nobody was doing it here, so took it upon myself to do so. All of this stuff has to get documented eventually and put into a readable format. So don't be ignorant.

hahaaa lol :3 if you wanna pretend i have contempt about your guide be my guest ... i don't think these are all the "known"(as u put them) combos for Lucario, I think you exagerating a little

1. Smash isn't like that, there's variables like their damage, your rage, your aura, their DI, air dodges, ect.
2. There are new players and people who want to be better (like me), and putting it all in one place helps with both of those things, not to mention all the info on conditions being helpful. You might know this stuff, but not everyone does.
3. How exactly are you going to have any combos longer than these in Smash 4? Anything longer is a chase and mind games.

I really don't see why this is a waste, or why Kami~ is being so hateful.

Anyway, good guide, I completely forgot F-Air>Aura Sphere. As for D-Throw vs. U-Throw, it's completely based on fall speed and percent and DI. I prefer U-Throw mostly but it doesn't work all the time, so I mix it up. Really though, start off by using the one that works better on the opposing character. No need to argue about it, either, the better one will always work more and people will learn.

Thx man, I always like ppl supporting (some) of my values )