Losing all hope for Ike

[One Handed Sword]

After playing 400 matches I think I can say I find Ike to be really bad. I will start explaining.

• No good meteor/off stage attacks. Yes I guess one can say Fair is a good off stage attack but I find it to be really lacking. I have had 60+ instances when I knocked someone off the stage with a well timed Fair at 130% and they survived. Dair feels extremely weird to use off stage and I can rarely find myself spiking them with this move. I have only had 6 matches where I actualy spiked someone with it.
• Defenseless vs zoning types characters. After facing loads of villagers,Mega men,Sheiks,Zero suits and dark pits ALL my matches against them were extremely tedious. I think others can say the same.
• Eruption. What kind of use is there to this move? I find it to be one of the worst specials in the game unless proven wrong.
• Other characters do Ike's job better. Characters like Bowser and other heavy weights tend to do Ike's job alot more better due to their more consistent kill rates and actual decent off stage tools.

I really like Ike's character + the way he plays but he just gets his but kicked by alot of members from the cast and it's so frustrating. Hope someone can come and prove me wrong.

 

[san.]

It's a misconception from Brawl that Ike is easy to use or for low level play. It requires good spacing and some knowledge to beat out opponents in this game, same as Brawl.

 

[One Handed Sword]

It's a misconception from Brawl that Ike is easy to use or for low level play. It requires good spacing and some knowledge to beat out opponents in this game, same as Brawl.

I know Ike is hard to use. And after using using Dudley for a long time I am used to having to use all my pokes,frame traps and reads best I can. But I feel that Ike has no shining redeemable qualities in his game play.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The real competition for Ike is Shulk, who has superior mobility and edgeguard options compared to Ike as well as better range on several moves which serve similar purposes. Well, until customs are involved. Ike's customs are a lot more useful than Shulk's last time I checked.

Eruption is ok, it can be used to edgeguard due to its large vertical hitbox that can potentially outrange ledge sweetspots with really good timing. Not a great move, but it has a use.

Real reason to play Ike over other heavyweights is he's smaller than most of them, and his U-smash and B-air are both very good.

 

[One Handed Sword]

The real competition for Ike is Shulk, who has superior mobility and edgeguard options compared to Ike as well as better range on several moves which serve similar purposes. Well, until customs are involved. Ike's customs are a lot more useful than Shulk's last time I checked.

Eruption is ok, it can be used to edgeguard due to its large vertical hitbox that can potentially outrange ledge sweetspots with really good timing. Not a great move, but it has a use.

Real reason to play Ike over other heavyweights is he's smaller than most of them, and his U-smash and B-air are both very good.

Shulk is miles better than Ike. You can never say that Shulk is too slow,does bad damage,terrible knockback or bad recovery because his arts improve on those points.

You see if 2 people spent a month learning Ike/Shulk the person who was training with Shulk would win 10/10. Because someone who can use Shulk very well has 0 bad matchups due to the arts.

 

[-RedX-]

Shulk has a terrible grab game compared to Ike and more landing lag on aerials except for Nair. Ike is more rewarded whenever Nair hits because Shulk's Nair sends opponents forward while Ike gets easy followups. Shulk does kill easily with Smash Monado Ftilt though. Other than that, I don't think Shulk is that much better than Ike. In fact, I think he's a worse Ike but that could change until I see some usage.

 

[One Handed Sword]

Shulk has a terrible grab game compared to Ike and more landing lag on aerials except for Nair. Ike is more rewarded whenever Nair hits because Shulk's Nair sends opponents forward while Ike gets easy followups. Shulk does kill easily with Smash Monado Ftilt though. Other than that, I don't think Shulk is that much better than Ike. In fact, I think he's a worse Ike but that could change until I see some usage.

Landing lag/grabs are the only cons Shulk has.

Better pokes than Ike
Better kill power than Ike
Faster than Ike
Better recovery than Ike

And somehow Shulk is weaker than Ike? Shulk is one of Ike's worst matchups man.

 

[-RedX-]

Those cons are bigger than you think because it means Shulk is weaker than Ike vs shields. And Ike has more ways to recover which helps out in being slightly more unpredictable so it's harder to edge guard Ike. Again, I would need to see more Shulk footage because he may be able to get around that with Jump Monado.

 

[One Handed Sword]

Those cons are bigger than you think because it means Shulk is weaker than Ike vs shields. And Ike has more ways to recover which helps out in being slightly more unpredictable so it's harder to edge guard Ike. Again, I would need to see more Shulk footage because he may be able to get around that with Jump Monado.

You may want to check the footage. Jump monado solves all of Shulks air game problems apart from landing lag.

 

[⑨ball]

Maybe Ike's just not a fit for the playstyle you want?

 

[Mario766]

I feel like a lot of those match-ups you talked about aren't that bad. Mega Man's projectiles aren't that amazing, Metal Blade is probably his best projectile, because of how he can use it. Sheik is an entirely different beast that doesn't have to do with needles, it just makes things even worse.

Fair isn't as bad as you think off-stage because of how much space it takes up and it has pretty decent knockback at kill percents where MOST recoveries won't recover, though a lot of recoveries are pretty massive in this game...Have you tried going for Back Airs? Much faster, better kill ability. All of Ike's options are also safe to use because Ike has a better time getting back to the stage with Aether. Try using Eruption more as well, some match-ups the recovery pretty much doesn't connect before Eruption hits for a free edgeguard, it's a timing problem though.

I don't really see what you mean by more consistent kill options, Ike kills pretty early compared to most. Shulk has a pretty harsh time killing without Smash, the main characters with more consistent kill options at the percents Ike can...is Bowser. Ike can kill floaties at 80-90 with un-charged up-smash unless VI'd amazingly, and most characters die around 110-120 to Back Airs/Up tilt/Smashes.

 

[One Handed Sword]

Maybe Ike's just not a fit for the playstyle you want?

He is exactly what I want. However I find him to be trash.

 

[⑨ball]

The character =/= the playstyle. Not intending to offend, but you sound like somebody that's angry his girlfriend doesn't do the things he's heard other girls do.

Nobody does Ike's "job" better than him because nobody has Ike's tools. If we're trying to reduce characters down to shallow concepts like KO power or weight then there are a plethora of characters that are simultaneously better and worse than each other all over the board. It's the combination of everything that makes them what they are that supports or discourages certain playstyles and by extension players.

If you think he's a bad character, then that's just that. However, if you think he's bad because he doesn't perform well in the playstyle you want, you should take some time to re-evaluate if perhaps you're not trying to use options you don't have and if there's not a better way to play him.

 

[One Handed Sword]

The character =/= the playstyle. Not intending to offend, but you sound like somebody that's angry his girlfriend doesn't do the things he's heard other girls do.

Nobody does Ike's "job" better than him because nobody has Ike's tools. If we're trying to reduce characters down to shallow concepts like KO power or weight then there are a plethora of characters that are simultaneously better and worse than each other all over the board. It's the combination of everything that makes them what they are that supports or discourages certain playstyles and by extension players.

If you think he's a bad character, then that's just that. However, if you think he's bad because he doesn't perform well in the playstyle you want, you should take some time to re-evaluate if perhaps you're not trying to use options you don't have and if there's not a better way to play him.

You got a good point. I will play Ike for a month longer then I will judge. It's just that Ike's worst matchups are the chars that frequently pop up online so it is very frustrating. But maybe I am missing something. Who knows.

 

[Naisora]

Ike isn't that bad imo. He's still a heavy punisher. Actually I like him a lot more in this game because I feel like he's really faster for some reason. Main reason I didn't use Ike in brawl because he felt more sluggish in that game. Although I am finding it harder to do jab cancels

 

[Blubolouis]

I think Ike will shine (well... shine more, not sure he'll be all that great tbh) on wiiU. It required very good, and very consistent spacing to be good at Ike. Overall I'm pretty sure he'll still struggle against the fast and the campy characters, but on the other hand he won't be shut down by MK this time. So he might actually be more viable overall.

 

[Sol0ke]

Yeah he won't get shut down by MK

Shiek and Rosalina though...

 

[⑨ball]

You got a good point. I will play Ike for a month longer then I will judge. It's just that Ike's worst matchups are the chars that frequently pop up online so it is very frustrating. But maybe I am missing something. Who knows.

Maybe try some local play too? Online is a really bad place to gain an opinion on a character's value, which should be obvious given that 90% of online play is rolling,dash attacks, jabs, and fully charged smashes. Bad things work online that don't otherwise and when you're using a character that has a high skill cap like Ike, he's bound to suffer.

 

[Spirst]

Ike isn't that bad imo. He's still a heavy punisher. Actually I like him a lot more in this game because I feel like he's really faster for some reason. Main reason I didn't use Ike in brawl because he felt more sluggish in that game. Although I am finding it harder to do jab cancels

It's been a while since I played Brawl but from what I've gauged thus far, Ike doesn't feel a lot faster to me. Part of the issue with Ike is that he doesn't seem to have changed much in comparison to some other vets. Also, I didn't know jab cancels were still a thing. I've been trying to do so now and I can't get it. I can't crouch right after a jab.

 

[One Handed Sword]

It's been a while since I played Brawl but from what I've gauged thus far, Ike doesn't feel a lot faster to me. Part of the issue with Ike is that he doesn't seem to have changed much in comparison to some other vets. Also, I didn't know jab cancels were still a thing. I've been trying to do so now and I can't get it. I can't crouch right after a jab.

Just do two jabs then down throw them for a good amount of damage. Also I don't really see Ike as a spacer due to his awful pokes in this game. Ftilt and Dtilt are the only few good pokes I have and they are both incredibly unsafe.

 

[Oblivion129]

I play both Ike and Shulk and I can say Ike is better at KOing, racking up damage, and recovery. Shulk has a good poking game, though, and faster running speed (I normally use Monado Speed).
I recommend seeing some Ike videos like this one: http://www.twitch.tv/gatorgaming/c/5249752
or playing other Ikes.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Shulk has a pretty harsh time killing without Smash, the main characters with more consistent kill options at the percents Ike can...is Bowser.

As a Shulk main in the making, I can attest to this.

Edit: Shulk's smash attacks have lag on them, making Shulk's smash attacks punishable and risky to pull off. Shulk's up smash attack has good vertical hit boxes, but little to no horizontal hit stun.

Shulk's down smash prolongs for too long of a time making it very easy to punish.

The majority of Ike's jabs/tilts has better killing potential than those of Shulk.

 

[Warlock*G]

After playing 400 matches I think I can say I find Ike to be really bad. I will start explaining.

• No good meteor/off stage attacks. Yes I guess one can say Fair is a good off stage attack but I find it to be really lacking. I have had 60+ instances when I knocked someone off the stage with a well timed Fair at 130% and they survived. Dair feels extremely weird to use off stage and I can rarely find myself spiking them with this move. I have only had 6 matches where I actualy spiked someone with it.
• Defenseless vs zoning types characters. After facing loads of villagers,Mega men,Sheiks,Zero suits and dark pits ALL my matches against them were extremely tedious. I think others can say the same.
• Eruption. What kind of use is there to this move? I find it to be one of the worst specials in the game unless proven wrong.
• Other characters do Ike's job better. Characters like Bowser and other heavy weights tend to do Ike's job alot more better due to their more consistent kill rates and actual decent off stage tools.

I really like Ike's character + the way he plays but he just gets his but kicked by alot of members from the cast and it's so frustrating. Hope someone can come and prove me wrong.

That's the kind of things I thought about Brawl's Ganondorf.

Did I find out he was secretly good? That not all hope was lost for him?

No! So I dropped him.

Ditch Ike.

 

[EvilShadow777]

That's the kind of things I thought about Brawl's Ganondorf.

Did I find out he was secretly good? That not all hope was lost for him?

No! So I dropped him.

Ditch Ike.

In Brawl characters like Ike/Ganondorf sucked because winning in Brawl was all about juggling, aerials, and gimping. The ledge mechanics made it super easy to gimp these kinds of characters due to their limited recovery options and low priority. Both characters have been buffed substantially in Smash 4 and many mechanics have changed around them that keep them relevant in the meta. Ofc zoners are hard matchups but Ike is about spacing and punishing. His side b charges ridiculously fast and his diagnal up b pushes you through the stage a bit and has a ridiculously huge hitbox and that thing is potentially legal for tournaments.

Vanilla Ike does have a bit of a little mac syndrome though. Since your options are either GO UP or GO SIDEWAYS you can easily be gimped. Recovering from above is much, much easier than from below though and since you basically fly across the stage it can be easy to stick to the stage, get some hits on your opponent, and make comebacks from high %s with your powerful punishes. His jab, grab, and down smash are a lot more responsive and his aerials have good range and are powerful so if you use him right he's pretty awesome.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

Without saying what everyone else has said... Eruption is an excellent edge-guard, if timed properly.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

By the way, Bair is your aerial kill move. Uair is a lingering attack that you fast-fall with your enemy against, for the max possibility of connecting. Fair will kill, but it's far weaker than Bair. Dair has shorter range than it did in Brawl, so it's very situation based. Use it only when your heart feels that it will connect. Nair is a good sub for it off-stage hitting below opponents, for damage. Unlike Brawl, Nair off-stage is usable and will not kill you, unless you use it really far down.

 

[One Handed Sword]

By the way, Bair is your aerial kill move. Uair is a lingering attack that you fast-fall with your enemy against, for the max possibility of connecting. Fair will kill, but it's far weaker than Bair. Dair has shorter range than it did in Brawl, so it's very situation based. Use it only when your heart feels that it will connect. Nair is a good sub for it off-stage hitting below opponents, for damage. Unlike Brawl, Nair off-stage is usable and will not kill you, unless you use it really far down.

After some matches using Eruption it is a pretty good edge guard tool.

However 60 instances of a Fair not killing at 100%+ is unexcusable.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

Do you use Fair often and connect with it often in the match? If so, it may be getting stale moved.

Eruption though can be tricky to time against high level opponents, who will stall their recoveries, and not leave much error in their recovery.

 

[One Handed Sword]

Do you use Fair often and connect with it often in the match? If so, it may be getting stale moved.

Eruption though can be tricky to time against high level opponents, who will stall their recoveries, and not leave much error in their recovery.

It was not the stale I can assure you that.

 

[EvilShadow777]

After some matches using Eruption it is a pretty good edge guard tool.

However 60 instances of a Fair not killing at 100%+ is unexcusable.

I generally don't have trouble killing with Fair. I find it to be more of a bullying tool than anything. Most of my kills will actually come from pressuring my opponent around the edge from 50-80% and popping them forward with Fair. From there another Fair will amost definitely kill and landing any other aerial will land the gimp. However if you're fighting center stage upsmash is your best bet for a kill, though you can't really force a kill as Ike. You want to bully and hard read until you see an opportunity to go in.

 

[⑨ball]

Also I don't really see Ike as a spacer due to his awful pokes in this game. Ftilt and Dtilt are the only few good pokes I have and they are both incredibly unsafe.

Huh? Ike lives off of spacing and reads. Spacing nairs and fairs is like 80 percent of my game. Both Ftilt and Dtilt are relatively safe at the ranges they should be used and being able to dash pivot ftilt is a huge boon for Ike.

 

[One Handed Sword]

Huh? Ike lives off of spacing and reads. Spacing nairs and fairs is like 80 percent of my game. Both Ftilt and Dtilt are relatively safe at the ranges they should be used and being able to dash pivot ftilt is a huge boon for Ike.

Sorry my bad. I was very oblivious to those facts.

 

[⑨ball]

Nothing to apologize for. Just something you can look into to make your Ike play more efficient. At the end of it all, your playstyle should be prioritized so you can have the most fun playing.

 

[One Handed Sword]

Nothing to apologize for. Just something you can look into to make your Ike play more efficient. At the end of it all, your playstyle should be prioritized so you can have the most fun playing.

You see the thing is that I completely forgot about quick drop so I missed loads of my hits so I think my spacing game is getting there.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I mained Ike in Brawl and I've heard that he's really improved his game this time around. Maybe Ike just isn't for you. I'm just like you where I main the character I find most interesting, so I don't base it off the moveset. Unfortunately, it can leave you disappointed like you are now.

In Brawl i was disappointed about ike being a slower character since i was expecting a middle-weight kind of Ike (though he seems faster now!).

Try learning his strengths and weaknesses and I'm sure eventually you'll feel very comfortable with him.

 

[KingTeo]

I mained Ike in Brawl and I've heard that he's really improved his game this time around. Maybe Ike just isn't for you. I'm just like you where I main the character I find most interesting, so I don't base it off the moveset. Unfortunately, it can leave you disappointed like you are now.

In Brawl i was disappointed about ike being a slower character since i was expecting a middle-weight kind of Ike (though he seems faster now!).

Try learning his strengths and weaknesses and I'm sure eventually you'll feel very comfortable with him.

I always liked Ike in Brawl. He seemed lie the perfect mix of speed and strength. Like, absolutely perfect. his smash attacks are as strong as the heaviest people in the game, and a good amount of his other attacks are quick and powerful. that jab combo, the back air, acting immediately out of side B. I mained Ike in brawl, what am I in for in Kerfuffle? Nothing but good times? Or is his playstyle different because of rebalnces or something?

433

 

[Evello]

I always liked Ike in Brawl. He seemed lie the perfect mix of speed and strength. Like, absolutely perfect. his smash attacks are as strong as the heaviest people in the game, and a good amount of his other attacks are quick and powerful. that jab combo, the back air, acting immediately out of side B. I mained Ike in brawl, what am I in for in Kerfuffle? Nothing but good times? Or is his playstyle different because of rebalnces or something?

433

Overall Ike is fairly similar to his Brawl incarnation, so he'll feel familiar to you. Bair is still great, and Quick Draw feels almost identical to me. Most of Ike's moves look and feel the same. Ike received a few small, interesting tweaks, though, so he shouldn't be played quite the same way as before.

For example, Ike's jab isn't as amazing as in Brawl, but in return his dtilt was made much faster. Dtilt is now one of Ike's best moves, while jab is frequently escapable. Thankfully Ike can no longer be easily gimped while using Nair, so it is a much more reliable option as well. And best of all, if Quickdraw connects you can act out of it. On the flipside, Ike can no longer grab the ledge during an Aether facing away from the ledge. There are other tweaks too, these just give you a good idea what kind of changes you're in store for.

 

[Yoh]

I feel more comfortable with Ike in this game and I think I will feel even more comfortable with the wii u version, with proper spacing and being able to react better against fast characters.
There are indeed some harder matchups like Sheik/Greninja, but they don´t feel nearly as bad as MK in Brawl. Ike has in my opinion a better recovery here, better defensive options and he even has some good combos, less lag on aerials, better counter, his killpower is still good. The only worse things that come to mind is the weaker Jab and this fair...I mean yeah fair is still good, but I just don´t like this move, I really miss Brawl fair.
Also the new ledge mechanic helps him alot and not being able to airdodge like you want because of lag.
Don´t get me wrong I don´t think he is that good but I´m positive that he will do better than in Brawl here.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Overall Ike is fairly similar to his Brawl incarnation, so he'll feel familiar to you. Bair is still great, and Quick Draw feels almost identical to me. Most of Ike's moves look and feel the same. Ike received a few small, interesting tweaks, though, so he shouldn't be played quite the same way as before.

For example, Ike's jab isn't as amazing as in Brawl, but in return his dtilt was made much faster. Dtilt is now one of Ike's best moves, while jab is frequently escapable. Thankfully Ike can no longer be easily gimped while using Nair, so it is a much more reliable option as well. And best of all, if Quickdraw connects you can act out of it. On the flipside, Ike can no longer grab the ledge during an Aether facing away from the ledge. There are other tweaks too, these just give you a good idea what kind of changes you're in store for.

Couldn't have said it any better. I can see quickdraw becoming a signature move in the meta if it's as good as everyone says.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Ike sucks he's just a Devil May Cry clone without guns.

0/10 would not RAAAAAAUUGH