List of things to buff Mewtwo

[Browny]

P.S. I know all throws got nerfed.. But how do we make up what is known as the strongest up throw in the game, get randomly overtaken by Charizards in a patch.

http://gfycat.com/NecessaryBlissfulGrizzlybear

 

[MagiusNecros]

http://gfycat.com/NecessaryBlissfulGrizzlybear

Do that in a actual match and not in training and I'll be that much more convinced. Since you know Rage and freshness/staleness of moves is not factored.

 

[meleebrawler]

Do that in a actual match and not in training and I'll be that much more convinced. Since you know Rage and freshness/staleness of moves is not factored.

Well in an actual match DI almost completely counteracts any benefit rage may give Charizard. It takes an absurd amount of rage before Zard's uthrow starts convincingly outperforming Mewtwo's. Meanwhile Mewtwo only needs a modest amount of rage to significantly improve his.

 

[MagiusNecros]

And that's only if you stay alive. But if you play Mewtwo well you probably won't ever get to rage mode.

 

[meleebrawler]

And that's only if you stay alive. But if you play Mewtwo well you probably won't ever get to rage mode.

Rage isn't a mode that just switches on when you get past 100%. It's a passive buff that scales with damage and starts as low as 50%.

People really need to stop treating Mewtwo's early deaths like an inevitable brick wall that will stop you no matter how hard you try. Because if that's all you can think about when playing as Mewtwo you're always going to lose.

It's like expecting Ryu to always KO below 100% because of his shoryuken combos, but the truth is playing smartly against him can make those combos very difficult to pull off consistently.

As for the claim that Mewtwo's position on japanese tier lists prevent him from getting buffs, maybe instead of just dismissing japanese meta as different and inexplicable (it is different, but not exceedingly so), consider that Mewtwo actually HAS people playing him there and thus can give a more accurate idea of his capabilities. Whereas here in the west most people won't even touch him because of bad word of mouth and as such can hardly give any constructive criticism other than he's really light.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Rage isn't a mode that just switches on when you get past 100%. It's a passive buff that scales with damage and starts as low as 50%.

People really need to stop treating Mewtwo's early deaths like an inevitable brick wall that will stop you no matter how hard you try. Because if that's all you can think about when playing as Mewtwo you're always going to lose.

It's like expecting Ryu to always KO below 100% because of his shoryuken combos, but the truth is playing smartly against him can make those combos very difficult to pull off consistently.

As for the claim that Mewtwo's position on japanese tier lists prevent him from getting buffs, maybe instead of just dismissing japanese meta as different and inexplicable (it is different, but not exceedingly so), consider that Mewtwo actually HAS people playing him there and thus can give a more accurate idea of his capabilities. Whereas here in the west most people won't even touch him because of bad word of mouth and as such can hardly give any constructive criticism other than he's really light.

50% is already a danger zone IMO.

Your comment on Ryu means little. If it lands around that percentile of damage he will still likely KO you, of course if you play smart and avoid it it won't KO you because it never hit you.

Japanese tier lists are irrelevant(they are relevant to us but not everyone) when a majority of changes are centered around casual play and the For Fun Online modes and Conquest results. If any data goes into For Glory and ideally 1v1 I suspect very little data is looked at in that regard. Tournaments might be monitored and I hope they are since we can see possible changes from that but one problem with that is at those big tournaments is anyone gonna run Mewtwo in one if they are playing to win? Right now? No.

As far as buffs go it's only ever been percentage chances angling and amount of knockback increased or decreased. The only game changing "changes" were Bowser's Flying Slam and now Charizard's throws.

And maybe this new shield change. Which I think keeps the higher tiers where they kinda were and helps the slower characters that do shield push and big shield damage a lot more.

 

[Browny]

Do that in a actual match and not in training and I'll be that much more convinced. Since you know Rage and freshness/staleness of moves is not factored.

Even with rage, it is still decently weaker than mewtwos upthrow. Mewtwos upthrow kills Mario at 111% at 100 rage with full DI. At 100 rage Charizards kills at... wait for it... 132%.

at 150 rage, charizard kills at around 117%. Mewtwo kills at 116% with only 80 rage.

I did that test a while back.

 

[godogod]

You forgot Lucario stole the whole damaging ball charge thing.

Crap, I forgot about that.. And I honestly hate the extra recoil it has in mid air. Its just totally useless offensively to me in air. I've rarely if ever been in a position where I would have t use shadowball to recover back into the stage. If people try to gimp me, its when I"m facing the stage..

But the extra kill power makes up for both.. I I can see how sakurai really tried differentiating between all the charged projcetiles.. Though I would either have the recoil reduced to be used offensively or that charge damage..

50% is already a danger zone IMO.

Your comment on Ryu means little. If it lands around that percentile of damage he will still likely KO you, of course if you play smart and avoid it it won't KO you because it never hit you.

Japanese tier lists are irrelevant(they are relevant to us but not everyone) when a majority of changes are centered around casual play and the For Fun Online modes and Conquest results. If any data goes into For Glory and ideally 1v1 I suspect very little data is looked at in that regard. Tournaments might be monitored and I hope they are since we can see possible changes from that but one problem with that is at those big tournaments is anyone gonna run Mewtwo in one if they are playing to win? Right now? No.

As far as buffs go it's only ever been percentage chances angling and amount of knockback increased or decreased. The only game changing "changes" were Bowser's Flying Slam and now Charizard's throws.

And maybe this new shield change. Which I think keeps the higher tiers where they kinda were and helps the slower characters that do shield push and big shield damage a lot more.

I Tell that to the smash developers. DO you really think they'd predominately meet the demands of american/wesern tier lists? My evidence already suggests their following Japanese tier lists by buffing everyone on the E tier list significantly since that tier list was made in mid June. I personally don't think it was coincidence.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Crap, I forgot about that.. And I honestly hate the extra recoil it has in mid air. Its just totally useless offensively to me in air. I've rarely if ever been in a position where I would have t use shadowball to recover back into the stage. If people try to gimp me, its when I"m facing the stage..

But the extra kill power makes up for both.. I I can see how sakurai really tried differentiating between all the charged projcetiles.. Though I would either have the recoil reduced to be used offensively or that charge damage..

I just hate seeing a great mechanic Mewtwo used to have and it is gone for little reason other to differentiate a similar Projectile.

 

[Furret24]

I just hate seeing a great mechanic Mewtwo used to have and it is gone for little reason other to differentiate a similar Projectile.

So do I, but it seems Sakurai is okay with making characters worse just to differentiate them from other characters. Just look at Doc.

 

[godogod]

50% is already a danger zone IMO.

Your comment on Ryu means little. If it lands around that percentile of damage he will still likely KO you, of course if you play smart and avoid it it won't KO you because it never hit you.

Japanese tier lists are irrelevant(they are relevant to us but not everyone) when a majority of changes are centered around casual play and the For Fun Online modes and Conquest results. If any data goes into For Glory and ideally 1v1 I suspect very little data is looked at in that regard. Tournaments might be monitored and I hope they are since we can see possible changes from that but one problem with that is at those big tournaments is anyone gonna run Mewtwo in one if they are playing to win? Right now? No.

As far as buffs go it's only ever been percentage chances angling and amount of knockback increased or decreased. The only game changing "changes" were Bowser's Flying Slam and now Charizard's throws.

And maybe this new shield change. Which I think keeps the higher tiers where they kinda were and helps the slower characters that do shield push and big shield damage a lot more.

lol irrelevant? Tell that to the smash developers. DO you really think they'd predominately meet the demands of american tier lists? My evidence already suggests their following Japanese tier lists by buffing everyone on the E tier list significantly since that tier list was made in mid June.

I just hate seeing a great mechanic Mewtwo used to have and it is gone for little reason other to differentiate a similar Projectile.

Same. He was the original charged projectile user that had a hitbox. ff

 

[godogod]

It's that time of the month again where we guess what "buffs" Mewtwo will get.

Mewtwo's up throw kills 10% sooner, surpassing Charizard's up throw
Mewtwo's shadowball has a hitbox when chsthrf
Mewtwo gets his melee weight back.
All of his hitbox problems gets fixed
..
OH whoops I mean realistically
-down throw gets 1% damage increase
-maaybe gets the wii fit grab hitbox fix for shorter characters

 

[Xzsmmc]

It's that time of the month again where we guess what "buffs" Mewtwo will get.

Mewtwo's up throw kills 10% sooner, surpassing Charizard's up throw
Mewtwo's shadowball has a hitbox when chsthrf
Mewtwo gets his melee weight back.
All of his hitbox problems gets fixed
..
OH whoops I mean realistically
-down throw gets 1% damage increase
-maaybe gets the wii fit grab hitbox fix for shorter characters

Come now, let's be realistic. He'll get nothing.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

It's that time of the month again where we guess what "buffs" Mewtwo will get.

Mewtwo's up throw kills 10% sooner, surpassing Charizard's up throw
Mewtwo's shadowball has a hitbox when chsthrf
Mewtwo gets his melee weight back.
All of his hitbox problems gets fixed
..
OH whoops I mean realistically
-down throw gets 1% damage increase
-maaybe gets the wii fit grab hitbox fix for shorter characters

I'm guessing up-air gets a 2% damage increase, forward smash kills 5% earlier, and up-tilt's hitbox duration is increased by 3 frames.

All I really care about now is getting hitboxes to match the attack trails, make down throw follow up into something, and make teleport easier to sweetspot. Weight increase would be fine but it's not really needed, despite the whining I've done about weight in the past. But i'm not expecting any of these changes to be implemented either.

 

[meleebrawler]

It's that time of the month again where we guess what "buffs" Mewtwo will get.

Mewtwo's up throw kills 10% sooner, surpassing Charizard's up throw
Mewtwo's shadowball has a hitbox when chsthrf
Mewtwo gets his melee weight back.
All of his hitbox problems gets fixed
..
OH whoops I mean realistically
-down throw gets 1% damage increase
-maaybe gets the wii fit grab hitbox fix for shorter characters

People just won't accept that Mewtwo's uthrow is the best vertical killing throw overall no matter how many times clear evidence is presented, huh? OMG, someone has an uthrow that's also good at killing! It must be better 'cuz it isn't Mewtwo's! Why isn't Mewtwo's absolutely uncontested like it was in Melee!? WAH!!

And to everyone; how about instead trying to wish for dreamland buffs or pessimistically trying to guess "insignificant" ones, you try not guessing at all? You get the benefit of no shattering disappointment and no pessimistic attitude beforehand.

 

[godogod]

Come now, let's be realistic. He'll get nothing.

Oh come on.. We all know Shadowball is getting a one frame hitbox duration decrease.


But looking back.. We've got some pretty amazing buff

-Charizard getting a crazy ass up throw kill out of no where
-wii fit trainer getting a 30% in kill power with her down b
-a bunch of characters getting several multiple damage increase buffs, including wft

Mewtwo getting a down smash buff( ~10% sooner is not too shabby). Of couse that doesn't mean we'll get anything big.



[QUOT]And to everyone; how about instead trying to wish for dreamland buffs or pessimistically trying to guess "insignificant" ones, you try not guessing at all? You get the benefit of no shattering disappointment and no pessimistic attitude beforehand.[/QUOTE]
Because it would be boring not to speculate? I'm not expecting anything significant since the last patch..

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

And to everyone; how about instead trying to wish for dreamland buffs or pessimistically trying to guess "insignificant" ones, you try not guessing at all? You get the benefit of no shattering disappointment and no pessimistic attitude beforehand.

Yeah, good luck with that one.

 

[meleebrawler]

Yeah, good luck with that one.

Oh, I have been having it. Helps to be actually trying to see what makes Mewtwo work and the good tools he has instead of moping around about his placement on tier lists.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

Oh, I have been having it. Helps to be actually trying to see what makes Mewtwo work and the good tools he has instead of moping around about his placement on tier lists.

I meant good luck with getting other people to think that way, not you.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I'm still in the camp that Mewtwo hasn't gotten buffed because Japan seems to think he's mid tier.

 

[Furret24]

I'm still in the camp that Mewtwo hasn't gotten buffed because Japan seems to think he's mid tier.

I'm still not sure what they see in him.

If we rally hard enough though, he'll still get buffed. Luigi got nerfed hard despite Japan thinking he wasn't good.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm still not sure what they see in him.

If we rally hard enough though, he'll still get buffed. Luigi got nerfed hard despite Japan thinking he wasn't good.

More than just getting juggled and dying early, which is all anyone this side of the coast seems to care about when discussing him, and is all anyone will know by just relying on general word-of-mouth or a token trial of Mewtwo.

Though people around here also tend to overrate Japan's perception of Mewtwo. Mid-tier is the most optimal placing, generally he's in mid-low so it's not like they don't think he's flawed, just that they recognize he's got some good things going for him.

Oh come on.. We all know Shadowball is getting a one frame hitbox duration decrease.


But looking back.. We've got some pretty amazing buff

-Charizard getting a crazy *** up throw kill out of no where
-wii fit trainer getting a 30% in kill power with her down b
-a bunch of characters getting several multiple damage increase buffs, including wft

Mewtwo getting a down smash buff( ~10% sooner is not too shabby). Of couse that doesn't mean we'll get anything big.

+ a 2% buff on fthrow.

Also realize the characters you listed were around way longer than Mewtwo and considered underwhelming the whole time as well. You can't really expect the same kind of treatment for Mewtwo when he was only out for a few months.

The buffs he got addressed moves that were clearly undertuned and were easy to fix without inadvertently causing additional problems.

 

[420quickscoper]

Honestly, it seems like you guys just won't appreciate the good tools that Mewtwo has and instead mopes on and on and on and on and... on about he needs buffs.

Guys, please.

I'm kind of a hypocrite since I use to do this, but since I'm not into that anymore, here's my two cents on this.
You guys are too unthankful.

I'm really just going to have to agree with meleebrawler over here.
Sure, Mewtwo gets juggled and dies early,
but he actually has a pretty good kit.
Just saying that he dies early and gets juggled doesn't mean he has things going for him.

Also, wouldn't buffing his weight kind of taking away the purpose of how Mewtwo's made?
I'm pretty sure they made Mewtwo to be a glass cannon.

Just realize the things that Mewtwo has.
I would personally like it for Shadow Ball to do damage while charging so it can chain into other attacks, but that's it.

-420

 

[Xzsmmc]

Also, wouldn't buffing his weight kind of taking away the purpose of how Mewtwo's made?
I'm pretty sure they made Mewtwo to be a glass cannon.

I see the glass part, but not the cannon part. If he had the power of Bowser or DK, I'd see it. Other than Upsmash, Dair andFair, none of his moves are particularly killer. Compare that to Bowser, who can kill with all of his smashes and aerials, as well as side and down specials. And it wouldn't kill them to buff his weight to Melee level, where he was light, but not feather in outer space. Fact is, being a big target and lightweight is a bad combination, unless you have functioning hitboxes and can ignore basic game mechanics like Rosalina.

And yeah yeah yeah, git gud and all that, but getting good with a character who is such high risk/low reward does not yield results for me like it has for Wario and Mega Man. Whenever I use Mewtwo online, I have to work so much harder to get results than I do with the previously mentioned two.

With all that said though, I do enjoy playing as him, and the reason I'm so critical of his flaws is because I really do want him to be good. He doesn't need to be top tier, but any sort of improvement would make him much more enjoyable to play as.

 

[Furret24]

This post is no longer necessary.

 

[godogod]

People just won't accept that Mewtwo's uthrow is the best vertical killing throw overall no matter how many times clear evidence is presented, huh? OMG, someone has an uthrow that's also good at killing! It must be better 'cuz it isn't Mewtwo's! Why isn't Mewtwo's absolutely uncontested like it was in Melee!? WAH!!

And to everyone; how about instead trying to wish for dreamland buffs or pessimistically trying to guess "insignificant" ones, you try not guessing at all? You get the benefit of no shattering disappointment and no pessimistic attitude beforehand.

Because it would be boring not to speculate? I'm not expecting anything significant since the last patch..

Honestly, it seems like you guys just won't appreciate the good tools that Mewtwo has and instead mopes on and on and on and on and... on about he needs buffs.

Guys, please.

I'm kind of a hypocrite since I use to do this, but since I'm not into that anymore, here's my two cents on this.
You guys are too unthankful.

I'm really just going to have to agree with meleebrawler over here.
Sure, Mewtwo gets juggled and dies early,
but he actually has a pretty good kit.
Just saying that he dies early and gets juggled doesn't mean he has things going for him.

Also, wouldn't buffing his weight kind of taking away the purpose of how Mewtwo's made?
I'm pretty sure they made Mewtwo to be a glass cannon.

Just realize the things that Mewtwo has.
I would personally like it for Shadow Ball to do damage while charging so it can chain into other attacks, but that's it.

-420

Nobody here is arguing that he isn't underrated, but Mewtwo doesn't have enough strengths to cover his weaknesses. We know because we use him so often, we know what works and don't works with him, his matchups, and as a legit fans we aren't blind to his weaknesses(we do take his strengths into accoun) and want him to to be better.

It really doesn't help that he's the second lightest character(who just happens to also have a large hit box) with half a dozen of his attacks don't match with his hit animations.. His recovery can end up sabotaging players with an SD as well.

There was no good reason to nerf his weight(it should have been retaining his melee weight or approaching 100, IMO), because none of the buffs he got in this game justifies him getting killed early. He's far from being a glass cannon. His power is slightly above average at best, but he's not exceptionally powerful enough in raw power and combo potential to make up how how light he is.. He can easily die earlier than the % he can kill. He doesn't have a high risk, high reward style. There' s more risk than reward.

I don't think most Mewtwo fans want him to be top tier. Someone who is competant to use at tournaments and mid tier level is enough for most people. Melee weight bac to average weight, all his hitbox animations issues fixed(grab, up air, up tilt, back air, forward air, forward smash), fixing teleport for earlier+long invincibility times+no SDing, and a shadowball that does damage while charging(like in melee), to name a few, isn't asking a lot. It may seem significant to you, probably because you're used to having Sakurai just trickles out buffs. Finally, Mewtwo has been out for 7 months now. At least 6 of those months they got a feel of how the fans like him.. Lets hope Nintendo isn't just following the Japanese competitive scene.

 

[godogod]

Anyway, I'm not expecting anything significant tomorrow in regards to buffs(assuming we get a patch tomorrow). Don't want my hopes up. The reality is that we never get exactly what we want. Sakurai's reality is very different from what we want, which I believe are buffs that the majority of fans want him to have to be viable.

 

[godogod]

I made a smash bros bingo card.. ._.

Note:
-whatever gets revealed today(stages, characters, new modes), doesn't have to come out today.

This general nintendo direct from neogaf is pretty hilarious.

 

[420quickscoper]

Because it would be boring not to speculate? I'm not expecting anything significant since the last patch..


Nobody here is arguing that he isn't underrated, but Mewtwo doesn't have enough strengths to cover his weaknesses. We know because we use him so often, we know what works and don't works with him, his matchups, and as a legit fans we aren't blind to his weaknesses(we do take his strengths into accoun) and want him to to be better.

It really doesn't help that he's the second lightest character(who just happens to also have a large hit box) with half a dozen of his attacks don't match with his hit animations.. His recovery can end up sabotaging players with an SD as well.

There was no good reason to nerf his weight(it should have been retaining his melee weight or approaching 100, IMO), because none of the buffs he got in this game justifies him getting killed early. He's far from being a glass cannon. His power is slightly above average at best, but he's not exceptionally powerful enough in raw power and combo potential to make up how how light he is.. He can easily die earlier than the % he can kill. He doesn't have a high risk, high reward style. There' s more risk than reward.

I don't think most Mewtwo fans want him to be top tier. Someone who is competant to use at tournaments and mid tier level is enough for most people. Melee weight bac to average weight, all his hitbox animations issues fixed(grab, up air, up tilt, back air, forward air, forward smash), fixing teleport for earlier+long invincibility times+no SDing, and a shadowball that does damage while charging(like in melee), to name a few, isn't asking a lot. It may seem significant to you, probably because you're used to having Sakurai just trickles out buffs. Finally, Mewtwo has been out for 7 months now. At least 6 of those months they got a feel of how the fans like him.. Lets hope Nintendo isn't just following the Japanese competitive scene.

You're taking the idea of a glass cannon as someone who hits as hard as Bowser but dies like Jigglypuff.
Yeah, Mewtwo's not that.
But he compensates that for a ton of good tools, which is what characters like Bowser kind of lack, when you think about it.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

There is a difference between speculating buffs, and whining and moaning about buffs that we haven't gotten yet.

The fact is that very few people are going to pick up Mewtwo unless they buff his weight. That's just the one major turn off for people, even if it is not the main problem. Unless that gets remedied, which it never will, Mewtwo will most likely continue to be one of the game's least popular characters, and never see much tournament representation at all outside of Japan.

 

[420quickscoper]

There is a difference between speculating buffs, and whining and moaning about buffs that we haven't gotten yet.

The fact is that very few people are going to pick up Mewtwo unless they buff his weight. That's just the one major turn off for people, even if it is not the main problem. Unless that gets remedied, which it never will, Mewtwo will most likely continue to be one of the game's least popular characters, and never see much tournament representation at all outside of Japan.

But people are seriously whining about it. I don't knowif a weight change is possible.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

But people are seriously whining about it. I don't knowif a weight change is possible.

I don't think it is possible either.

 

[godogod]

You're taking the idea of a glass cannon as someone who hits as hard as Bowser but dies like Jigglypuff.
Yeah, Mewtwo's not that.
But he compensates that for a ton of good tools, which is what characters like Bowser kind of lack, when you think about it.

No, I also said someone with lots of good combos to rack and kill relatively easy, which he doesn't have as well.

I just don't see him as a glass cannon remotely. He doesn't have enough offensive capabilities and power to really be called one to make up for his weight and I've stated why already.. I don't want him to be a glass cannon either anyway. I don't want to delve in to this argument anymore. There's already an entire thread that's dedicated to arguing about Mewtwo being a class cannon or not.

Anyway, just one more month.

 

[420quickscoper]

No, I also said someone with lots of good combos to rack and kill relatively easy, which he doesn't have as well.

I just don't see him as a glass cannon remotely. He doesn't have enough offensive capabilities and power to really be called one to make up for his weight and I've stated why already.. I don't want him to be a glass cannon either anyway. I don't want to delve in to this argument anymore. There's already an entire thread that's dedicated to arguing about Mewtwo being a class cannon or not.

Anyway, just one more month.

If you think Mewtwo's combo game is bad, then you're just looking at the fact that Mewtwo doesn't have throw combos.
And, I'm gonna be honest here, having throw combos would make me more upset than happy. I can explain why later.

 

[LRodC]

Mewtwo does have combos. They're not easy-bake though and require a lot of knowledge of opponent weights, fall speeds, and percents. We have an entire thread on the possible ones, but a lot of people don't want to put in the time to master them since they can just pick up someone more rewarding like Ryu and learn his instead. Combos aren't always caused from throws. I'd definitely support the addition of down throw combos or strings, but it's not like he has zero now. They're just tough to master and pull off.

 

[Metalex]

This is the buffs i think is important that would make Mewtwo a threat in tournaments:

- Increase his weight slightly - A character this size shouldn't be as light as Jigglypuff due to being so vulnerable to combos and strings.

- Remove the hurtbox he has on the base of his tail - When he's standing upright this is not a problem since the trunk is in the Z axis so it's not vulnerable, but when he's in a tumble position and in certain attacks this hurtbox goes into the X axis and that is what makes Mewtwo get hit by things he seemingly shouldn't.

- Increase the grab range slightly, and grab hitbox - It has very bad range as it is, and often misses when it shouldn't especially short characters.

- Make Utilt hit all the way around mewtwo - The back where it often misses now. It should be more similiar DK's (don't remove the different hitboxes though)

- Make Uair hit easier in front and back of Mewtwo so it matches the animation - It can only hit taller grounded opponents at the moment when spaced correctly, and can miss when they stand inside of the tail animation. (Maybe have lower ending lag even if it isn't necessary)

And then maybe:

- Fix the hitbox for Bair It can not hit many opponents if shorthopped even if they stand inside of the tail animation. Some people says it would be overpowered but im still not seeing it, wouldn't it be similiar to Ike's Fair in that case?

- Make Dthrow a combothrow - Charizard got this treatment and it would help Mewtwo alot.


And to the people saying Mewtwo is too little cannon i don't really agree since he has many combos that deals a good chunk of damage and is easy to hit with from moves like Dtilt, Nair, Jab, Utilt, Fair and Uair, and also has the threat of a 25% damage punish in Shadowball so i personally don't think he needs any damage buffs.

 

[LRodC]

This is the buffs i think is important that would make Mewtwo a threat in tournaments:

- Increase his weight slightly - A character this size shouldn't be as light as Jigglypuff due to being so vulnerable to combos and strings.

- Remove the hurtbox he has on the base of his tail - When he's standing upright this is not a problem since the trunk is in the Z axis so it's not vulnerable, but when he's in a tumble position and in certain attacks this hurtbox goes into the X axis and that is what makes Mewtwo get hit by things he seemingly shouldn't.

- Increase the grab range slightly, and grab hitbox - It has very bad range as it is, and often misses when it shouldn't especially short characters.

- Make Utilt hit all the way around mewtwo - The back where it often misses now. It should be more similiar DK's (don't remove the different hitboxes though)

- Make Uair hit easier in front and back of Mewtwo so it matches the animation - It can only hit taller grounded opponents at the moment when spaced correctly, and can miss when they stand inside of the tail animation. (Maybe have lower ending lag even if it isn't necessary)

And then maybe:

- Fix the hitbox for Bair It can not hit many opponents if shorthopped even if they stand inside of the tail animation. Some people says it would be overpowered but im still not seeing it, wouldn't it be similiar to Ike's Fair in that case?

- Make Dthrow a combothrow - Charizard got this treatment and it would help Mewtwo alot.


And to the people saying Mewtwo is too little cannon i don't really agree since he has many combos that deals a good chunk of damage and is easy to hit with from moves like Dtilt, Nair, Jab, Utilt, Fair and Uair, and also has the threat of a 25% damage punish in Shadowball so i personally don't think he needs any damage buffs.

I support all of these. The changes that would make the biggest difference would definitely be the hitbox additions/fixes and changes to his tail attacks. Weight would make a difference, but in the end, I don't think it would change a hell of a lot unless it was a major change (doubtful).

 

[420quickscoper]

This is the buffs i think is important that would make Mewtwo a threat in tournaments:

- Increase his weight slightly - A character this size shouldn't be as light as Jigglypuff due to being so vulnerable to combos and strings.

- Remove the hurtbox he has on the base of his tail - When he's standing upright this is not a problem since the trunk is in the Z axis so it's not vulnerable, but when he's in a tumble position and in certain attacks this hurtbox goes into the X axis and that is what makes Mewtwo get hit by things he seemingly shouldn't.

- Increase the grab range slightly, and grab hitbox - It has very bad range as it is, and often misses when it shouldn't especially short characters.

- Make Utilt hit all the way around mewtwo - The back where it often misses now. It should be more similiar DK's (don't remove the different hitboxes though)

- Make Uair hit easier in front and back of Mewtwo so it matches the animation - It can only hit taller grounded opponents at the moment when spaced correctly, and can miss when they stand inside of the tail animation. (Maybe have lower ending lag even if it isn't necessary)

And then maybe:

- Fix the hitbox for Bair It can not hit many opponents if shorthopped even if they stand inside of the tail animation. Some people says it would be overpowered but im still not seeing it, wouldn't it be similiar to Ike's Fair in that case?

- Make Dthrow a combothrow - Charizard got this treatment and it would help Mewtwo alot.


And to the people saying Mewtwo is too little cannon i don't really agree since he has many combos that deals a good chunk of damage and is easy to hit with from moves like Dtilt, Nair, Jab, Utilt, Fair and Uair, and also has the threat of a 25% damage punish in Shadowball so i personally don't think he needs any damage buffs.

I agree with all of these, except for Dthrow being a combo throw.

 

[LRodC]

I agree with all of these, except for Dthrow being a combo throw.

Can you explain why?

 

[420quickscoper]

Can you explain why?

It's just that I'm kind of mad that pretty much every character has one except for some. And, personally, I think it'd make Mewtwo easier to learn as well... which I don't want his high learning curve going away from him.