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Official Let's Get King Dedede Buffed! An Official Patch Request

Soul Train

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We are now down to the final - or one of the last - patches in Smash coming up next month. But our beloved King has yet to get a patch despite his glaring issues and every other heavy getting critical buffs. He's got glitchy close-range attacks, is too fat+slow to play far away, can't kill without a read, and is easily beaten by shield. Those are huge flaws for a heavy!

As time goes on, more will learn of these weaknesses, and our beloved King will only become more frustrating to play. But as Nintendo has repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to listen to the community and a desire to make all characters fun...

It's time. It's time to post and share and comment, it's time to get loud and let Nintendo know what we think,
it's time to fight for the character we love.

To be clear: this is not about whining, complaining, or being defeatist. We fully agree that other characters need buffs as well, and we'd be happy to help with those efforts as well! But this is about our King, and we want to make our voices heard! We love King Dedede, we love Smash Brothers, and want to have competitive fun with the King.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO:
  1. Watch this Official Patch Request video, then Part 2 here, please like/comment/share!
  2. Upvote and comment on the Reddit thread
  3. Share it with Nintendo on Facebook, Twitter, etc. Here's their Facebook page, here are their US, UK, Europe, and Japanese Twitter accounts.
  4. Draw the attention of relevant big internet personalities - tweet them, facebook them, etc. Example: we know Sakurai has tweeted his videos - let's get Etika to notice this! Hit him up on Twitter right here, and here's his youtube channel. If we can get someone more well known to jump on this, we'll be that much closer to making our dream a reality. Other ideas, with links to their twitters - hit them up!
  5. Please do come up with more ideas! Let's get some ideas flowing of how else we might get Nintendo's attention!
Flawed Flawed , last time we talked you mentioned using some facebook groups to spread the word, is that still a thing?
@Girthquake is already working with a friend to see if we can get the vid translated. Anyone else got any knowledge of Japanese?


To be specific, here are our General Patch Requests:
  • Improved Mobility
  • Safer/Faster Attacks
  • Killthrow / Killing throw followup
And we don't want anything to be out of character or broken! We just want the King to be competitively viable.

The Detailed Breakdown: summarized as balancing risk with reward
  • Mobility: just a bit faster in air, from .65 to .7~.72, still the slowest in the game. Potential slight buffs to run and walk speed as well - all would hugely help this unsafe character play neutral better - just like Lucario or Kirby's old buffs
  • General reduction of damage in exchange for faster startup/endlag on: Fair, Jab, Ftilt, Utilt, and Dair would be GREAT- just like the old Ike patch
  • Jab: all hits should to connect on hit at all ranges - speed up the first two swings. Make the first swing come out frame 6-7 at least.
  • Dtilt: fix hitbox so it connects with close opponents.
  • Dash Attack: clearly designed to be a roll punish, so let it punish rolls. It needs to either slide farther or get cut endlag in exchange for a damage nerf, because right now it's so slow and stubby it easily misses even with correct predictions
  • Fair: speed up so it autocancels on shorthop - it does less damage and has a worse hitbox compared to Bair, but Fair is more punishable?
  • Dair: slow speed and huge sourspots mean this move is incredibly hard to land. Charizard, DK - both have spikes that work as they should. Dair needs to either be sped up or have its sweetspot enlarged.
  • Upsmash: fix hitbox so it connects with short opponents. Either reduce its extreme endlag, or take away its sourspots - the move barely kills and has a very small hitbox for its endlag frames.
  • Inhale: massively reduce cooldown frames. Huge startup and endlag does not justify a measly 9-10%.
  • Gordo: either raise the reflect ceiling to 4-5% so opponents have to invest as much as the King does with "Gordo ping-pong", or decrease endlag on the move, so Dedede can actually hit the Gordo back sooner. Currently, Little Mac can be over half the stage away and reflect Gordo back with a Jab before DDD can respond.
  • Jet Hammer: it's almost useless - terrible endlag, damages Dedede, and Fsmash kills sooner. Let us short hop with it and B-reverse in the air like all other Special moves, and let a full charge break shields.
  • Killthrow Setup: exactly like Bowser, DK, or Charizard. Currently Dthrow kills sooner than UThrow. Either buff Uthrow / Bthrow to kill ~130%, or reduce knockback on Dthrow to allow a Bair/Uair at kill %s.
Now let's get on this and get our penguin patched! Post here with any ideas or even if you just shared or tweeted this stuff!
 
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ccthirteen

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I never have much of an issue getting KOs with KD3, but if the opponent is in control by juggling me, it isn't easy to get control back if they're making their most optimal choices and getting good reads.

For this reason, I'd agree with less startup and end lag for fair, and preferably a completely different dair as well as less startup and end lag on all of his specials.

The other ideas are good, but I don't know that they would buff his air speed all that much since he seems to have the best recovery of any of the heavies.
 
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D

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So glad you got around to doing this, Soul Train! I'll try to spread this around as best as I can.

Has anybody posted this in Character Competitive Impressions yet?
 

PeliPenguin

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I've tweeted at Etika the patch request video, if we want the attention of a big personality we need to be aware of each others actions and support with favourites/retweets. For this reason I'm going to leave my tweet here.

https://twitter.com/peligodhunter/status/690299648607649793

I think we should all be supporting each other on social media, so I request that everyone leaves their twitter/facebook links so we can support each other :).:4dedede:
 

Flawed

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Doing some spreading right now atm. Hoping for a miracle
 

Ekkie

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Some other personalities that might be interested in sharing, since i don't have a twitter I'll mention them here: Lythero, hes played the king a bit in the past and he seems to respond to a lot on twitter, Alpharad I'm sure wouldn't mind, and Botanix Sage I've seen pick DDD a lot in his past streams.
 

Sneaky boy Nick

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What if down throw tech chased and up throw was his combo throw? it would be kind of neat. I miss tech chase throws.

Here's my king dedede wish list.

1. hitboxes fixed on down tilt and jab
2. slight increase on dash, walk and air speed.
3. inhale has reduced cooldown
4. dair has massively increase sweetspot and auto cancels in a short hop ( would be neat)
5. fair autocancels in a short hop
6. gordo takes 5% to be reflected back with less endlag
7. speed up dash attack and remove the sour spot
8. Brawl grab range
9. throws dealing more damage
10. More satisfying sounds for his hammer
11. Up tilt similar to brawl

Not every character need a kill throw or kill throw set up but I do feel like king dedede should be a grappler at heart.
 

Soul Train

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FYI, the second video is up and done! I'll update the OP too. Did my best there to nicely address the negativity this idea's gathered.

Some other personalities that might be interested in sharing, since i don't have a twitter I'll mention them here: Lythero, hes played the king a bit in the past and he seems to respond to a lot on twitter, Alpharad I'm sure wouldn't mind, and Botanix Sage I've seen pick DDD a lot in his past streams.
Fantastic ideas. Is anyone here on a more friendly basis with those people, so that they'd actually read what you say? Anyways, everyone tweet them up!
And please do post the links to your tweets as well, so we can retweet each other's stuffs. If anyone knows a good way to organize/share tweets and such, let me know.

EDIT: added Omni to the list, how did I not think of him.
EDIT2: created a twitter account! Follow me and retweet the Dedede stuffs: https://twitter.com/ThatSoulTrain
 
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Silly Symphony

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Would it be a good idea to contact Bill Trinen? He actively follows the competitive scene and also has a good Yoshi and Rosalina. I'm just not sure about contacting a high-up representative at NoA about it. I also don't follow him nor does he know me.
 

SalsaSavant

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Been a long time since I've been here, saw this, and immediately knew what I had to do.
 
D

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Anybody had any success in spreading this around as of far? I REALLY want this to make rounds around the Smash community. It needs to.
 

Soul Train

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Anybody had any success in spreading this around as of far? I REALLY want this to make rounds around the Smash community. It needs to.
I'm about to post in the Moderator forums; where else do you think this would be valuable?

In terms of priority: Girthquake's translator friend just bailed on him, so right now getting a Japanese translation of the requested changes is critical. Does anyone know Japanese or a Japanese player here? Or just know someone with relevant skills who might be willing to help?
 
D

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I'm about to post in the Moderator forums; where else do you think this would be valuable?

In terms of priority: Girthquake's translator friend just bailed on him, so right now getting a Japanese translation of the requested changes is critical. Does anyone know Japanese or a Japanese player here? Or just know someone with relevant skills who might be willing to help?
Crap. That sucks, I don't know any Japanese players.

Maybe posting this in Character Competitive Impressions would be a start? I really am not sure. Any response from Etika or the other notable Smash celebrities at all either?

WAIT WAIT. WE CAN GET THE GUY WHO TRANSLATES STUFF FOR SOURCE GAMING
 
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Putuk

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Seems there's a few people trying to shoot all of this down, since this is anti-competitive, too comfortable/easy/whiny or even just argue "back in Melee/Brawl we didn't have balance patches".

Seems a bit silly. Balance patches are, as of now, the norm with every update. They aim to fix glitches and adress certain flaws characters have.
There's no reason against fixing certain aspects of the game that seem flawed. They're simply aiming for a more polished product. They've improved certain characters greatly, and others slightly.
This is a good thing. It lets developers adress oversights that may have happened.
 

Silly Symphony

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Seems there's a few people trying to shoot all of this down, since this is anti-competitive, too comfortable/easy/whiny or even just argue "back in Melee/Brawl we didn't have balance patches".

Seems a bit silly. Balance patches are, as of now, the norm with every update. They aim to fix glitches and adress certain flaws characters have.
There's no reason against fixing certain aspects of the game that seem flawed. They're simply aiming for a more polished product. They've improved certain characters greatly, and others slightly.
This is a good thing. It lets developers adress oversights that may have happened.
I can understand why people think it's anti-competitive, "just pick a better character" was the default reaction in 64/melee/brawl. Except, these games had balance testing up until it was released, not after.

Dedede has missing hitboxes on Dtilt, UpTilt, Fair, Bair and UpSmash animations, and I can't remember that Gordo getting stuck glitch being fixed. These are not even balance issues, just the team not having looked at the character in greater detail. There is no reason to accept these things as set in stone. Telling people "just pick a better character", calling them scrubs or asking for more creativity isn't productive in this case.

While tiers will probably exist forever, with balance patches and bug fixes, there is little to no reason for any character to fare poorly against the majority/all the cast. And with this I'm also looking at poor Jiggs and Zelda.
 

supersage400

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Let's just use Google translate, because I'm sure the end result would be hilarious.

Seriously, though, there's a translator-for-hire named Glitterberri who is mostly interested in translating developer and beta information for games like Zelda from Japanese to English. Before it got an official localization, she was very active in translating Hyrule Historia into English, for example. She has a hire page, and if someone is interested enough and has some cash to spare, it might be worth asking if she is willing to do English to Japanese instead of the other way around: http://www.glitterberri.com/hire/
 
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Soul Train

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Let's just use Google translate, because I'm sure the end result would be hilarious.

Seriously, though, there's a translator-for-hire named Glitterberri who is mostly interested in translating developer and beta information for games like Zelda from Japanese to English. http://www.glitterberri.com/hire/
I've emailed her, awaiting on a reply.

@Feelicks how might be we best contact the guy behind source gaming?

And to everyone: where's the Japanese equivalent of Smashboards, and how do we get in contact with them? If we could 1. coordinate with our Japanese D3 brothers, and 2. Potentially find one that's English-speaking, we're in the money.
 

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Last I heard there wasn't really a Japanese equivalent to Smashboards.

This was YEARS ago however so things may have changed.
 
D

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I've emailed her, awaiting on a reply.

@Feelicks how might be we best contact the guy behind source gaming?

And to everyone: where's the Japanese equivalent of Smashboards, and how do we get in contact with them? If we could 1. coordinate with our Japanese D3 brothers, and 2. Potentially find one that's English-speaking, we're in the money.
We could potentially ask @PushDustIn.
 

Muskrat Catcher

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Wasn't there like a Smash Asia site that launched recently? And does Japan use that site or is it just mainland Asia? It was on the front page of smashboards a little while back
 

BCMYYYNINJA

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FYI, the second video is up and done! I'll update the OP too. Did my best there to nicely address the negativity this idea's gathered.



Fantastic ideas. Is anyone here on a more friendly basis with those people, so that they'd actually read what you say? Anyways, everyone tweet them up!
And please do post the links to your tweets as well, so we can retweet each other's stuffs. If anyone knows a good way to organize/share tweets and such, let me know.

EDIT: added Omni to the list, how did I not think of him.
EDIT2: created a twitter account! Follow me and retweet the Dedede stuffs: https://twitter.com/ThatSoulTrain
I so agree with everything you have here. Well done
 
D

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Guys, we NEED to be quick about this. February is literally 2 days away and we lack a translator.
 

Soul Train

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Guys, we NEED to be quick about this. February is literally 2 days away and we lack a translator.
So. I have a translator. He's super good, and quoted me $55. I'm willing to front that just for love of D3 - but is anyone willing to donate $5 or $10? Paypal would probably be the simplest option, PM me for my paypal link if you want (and even a pic of the receipt if you so desire).

While I'd love to get it translated for free by a japanese smash fan, no dice so far. I've posted in a few other places on the site, and absolutely no one has gotten back to me. Right now this looks like the best option.
 
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randomguy1235

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So. I have a translator. He's super good, and quoted me $55. I'm willing to front that just for love of D3 - but is anyone willing to donate $5 or $10? Paypal would probably be the simplest option, PM me for my paypal link if you want (and even a pic of the receipt if you so desire).

While I'd love to get it translated for free by a japanese smash fan, no dice so far. I've posted in a few other places on the site, and absolutely no one has gotten back to me. Right now this looks like the best option.
Does the smash team have enough time to patch D3 in the meantime though? If so I got you bruh
 

SalsaSavant

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There won't be enough time. The patch is likely done by now. Any new changes would have to be retested.

However, people have noticed Marth buffs, so there's hope. And I wouldn't be surprised if a few people stayed on in case of any glitches with Bayo and Corrin, so they might do some more in the meantime.
 
D

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There won't be enough time. The patch is likely done by now. Any new changes would have to be retested.

However, people have noticed Marth buffs, so there's hope. And I wouldn't be surprised if a few people stayed on in case of any glitches with Bayo and Corrin, so they might do some more in the meantime.
People noticed Marth buffs?

I really hope they patch the game further, it'll give us more time.
 

Soul Train

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There won't be enough time. The patch is likely done by now. Any new changes would have to be retested.
To be clear: since these efforts began towards the end of January, getting D3 patched in the Corrin/Bayo update was never the goal. I guarantee Nintendo has a set process for patching, most likely involving weeks of procedure and testing before patches are approved. If we wanted to be part of this next patch, we would've had to start this mid-December at the latest.

Instead, we are aiming for the NEXT patch after the one this week. And yes it is highly likely that there will be one. While this patch releases the final DLC characters, Sakurai himself said that they will be continuing to monitor and tweak the game post-Corrin/Bayo. As such I for one will keep on here. The goal: to get anything near a "we hear you" from someone at Nintendo.

ON THAT NOTE: the Japanese translation is finished! Click here for the Japanese translation, and here for the original English. While we had originally planned to tweet/share this ASAP, right now I'm thinking we'll wait until we see the patch changes on Feb. 3rd. If D3 gets great buffs, wonderful! If not, we'll immediately jump on this, collaborate on sharing (like tweeting to @Sora_Sakurai and whoever else we can), and get things moving.

If anything else, we're King Dedede players. We don't give up
 

SalsaSavant

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People noticed Marth buffs?

I really hope they patch the game further, it'll give us more time.
Yeah, his Fair did 13% instead of 10% in the video with him against Bayo, Corrin, and Pit.

So this patch has SOMETHING. Something for Dedede? Who can say. Fingers crossed.
 

Silly Symphony

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Yeah, his Fair did 13% instead of 10% in the video with him against Bayo, Corrin, and Pit.

So this patch has SOMETHING. Something for Dedede? Who can say. Fingers crossed.
That's a sizable buff, not bad. Hope it's a big one all round. But I still remember 13% on De's Fair being too much, who know what's going on in their mind.
 

supersage400

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So I noticed that in the translation, the terms "forward tilt," "Forward air," "reflect cieling," "gordo ping pong," and possibly others are written using Katakana, which means they'll be read just like that, as Japanese pronunciations of English words. My concern is that I don't know if Sakurai or Japanese players will necessarily know what those English terms refer to. They might have their own words for them in Japanese. Do Japanese and Western communities use the same words to refer to these moves?
 

Soul Train

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So I noticed that in the translation, the terms "forward tilt," "Forward air," "reflect ceiling," "gordo ping pong," and possibly others are written using Katakana, which means they'll be read just like that, as Japanese pronunciations of English words. My concern is that I don't know if Sakurai or Japanese players will necessarily know what those English terms refer to. They might have their own words for them in Japanese. Do Japanese and Western communities use the same words to refer to these moves?
A good thought. But I talked that through with the translator as well. In the end, the point really isn't "NINTENDO MAKE THESE EXACT CHANGES PLZ", it's just to make them aware of 1. our passion and 2. the major issues of D3. Both are easily translatable, and the translator especially said were clear in both the English and Japanese documents.

Otherwise, the specifics per move are just ideas we had. If Nintendo honestly even reads them great, they can easily ask for clarification. But again, not even the point. Just getting the "hey, remember this character? We love him buff plz" heard is huge.
 

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Well if you change your mind I know a bit of the lingo. E.g. forward air is usually called 空中前 in Japanese. If not, great. Looks good.
 

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Alright. No buffs? No big deal. At least now Soul Train's videos didn't go to waste. Who should we tweet first? Samurai? Etika? Omni?
 
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Soul Train

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Alright. No buffs? No big deal. At least now Soul Train's videos didn't go to waste. Who should we tweet first? Samurai? Etika? Omni?
Ha the vid wouldn't have been a waste either way, it's already generated a lot of awareness. That and it's also improved my D3 game at least - you can't improve until you know your weaknesses better than anyone.

With next steps: our efforts here will kick into high gear for sure - but not...yet. Let's allow the Corrinetta hype and tech craze to die down a bit for a few days before starting here in earnest. I'm without internet this weekend too, so that works out. Until then, discuss: what do you think are the best ways to get noticed by Nintendo? Where else could we use our Japanese translation of the patch request (we could snail mail it, hah)?

Success is getting any kind of response from them, just to know we're heard. Example: setting up a Tweet schedule to spam Sakurai + any other Nintendo peeps we can find? Lol maybe not. Personally I'd like to ask around in the Zelda/Puff board, see if they'd like to coordinate. The more people, the louder we are.
 
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Putuk

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Flat out calling Nintendo is probably pretty useless. You'd get incontact with some IT person who probably doesn't really know what to do with the info we'd provide.

But really that's the only thing I know.

I heard someone mention Bill Trinen being somewhat knowledgeable about the smash scene, so maybe that's a lead?
 
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