K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[toadster101]

The world is so hungry for K. Rool merchandise that we're starting to make our own. Love it. What I want to see next is K. Rool cosplay. Or better yet, Kaptain K. Rool cosplay. That's like... cosplay-ception! I better get started on my Halloween costume, though I don't think anybody would recognize me. I'll give it a few more years before I start investing my time and money into such an ambitious undertaking. Wario was the first ever character I dressed up as, and he certainly won't be the last.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

The world is so hungry for K. Rool merchandise that we're starting to make our own. Love it. What I want to see next is K. Rool cosplay. Or better yet, Kaptain K. Rool cosplay. That's like... cosplay-ception! I better get started on my Halloween costume, though I don't think anybody would recognize me. I'll give it a few more years before I start investing my time and money into such an ambitious undertaking. Wario was the first ever character I dressed up as, and he certainly won't be the last.

Ebay has some cool Crocodile masks if you want to check them out.

 

[FalKoopa]

A DeviantArt user named DreamingBaku is working on a new K. Rool model, incorporating elements of his Rare and Paon designs, plus inspiration from Tropical Freeze's art style. This is an image of the work in progress.

Personally, this is right along the lines of what I'd like to see for a potential character redesign. What do you all think?

I love it.

The face, the krown and the hands are based on the Paon, while the rest appear to be based on Rare.

thats pretty cool
but if they made a dk game with that k rool model then kids would be looking under thier bed for him.....he looks like a crazy monster

Probably because he hasn't been coloured yet. The first one just scream 'Psycho'.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Can we discuss Konspiracies here about King K.Rool's probable 'rejection' for Smash? The fact he was out-prioriticed by other newcomers (due to more relevance, shamefully).

I feel that Bowser's moveset revamps and Bowser Jr.'s existance are both his biggest reasons of exclusion. The way Bowser stands upright is a stance I easily could see K.Rool taking for example. Outside of Bowser's Inside Story, Bowser is always mostly hunched over as in Melee and Brawl.

We've seen that outside of King K.Rool, most biggest requested characters made it in. MegaMan is probably the best example. And he got revealed early in development, just like Bowser. Ridley also has his own reasons for exclusion as we know, but he might be scrapped with K.Rool early on. And as we know, Bowser Jr. almost didn't make the cut.

King K.Rool might've probably either been too similar to Bowser for them to continue development, or he was partly created but scrapped due to lack of recent appearances and other ideas they had to work on (Shulk, Duck Hunt, PacMan, Mii- all rather late additions). Moves I speculate he could have had are: Bowser's F Smash, Bowser Jr's Neutral B, Bowser's Custom Side B, Bowser's new aerials, Charizard's new Forward Air. My base for this theory is Mewtwo's exclusion from Brawl, and Lucario, Lucas, Wolf and Charizard inherriting some moves from him (Neutral B, F Smash, F Air, D Smash, N Air, F Tilt). So it's not like it's the first time this has happened. Villager and Snake sharing similarities is another thing that has got me thinking this.

K.Rool might simply be rejected cause they needed more time for him, or they wanted to include him when they got more to work with due to a new appearance. Bowser Jr. might once have been low priority, but maybe the idea of including all Koopalings and giving him a Side B that references the almighty Mario Kart subseries and Mario Kart 8 needing it's attention made Sakurai focus his attention on Bowser Jr. instead. Not sure how to word this properly but, Bowser Jr. kind of has a playstyle that many expected K.Rool to have. An aggressive zoner, relying on projectiles to get stage control. But Bowser Jr. is a lot lighter, smaller and has his mech of course.

I truely believe K.Rool was once considered as a playable character. It just doesn't make sence that he wouldn't. Not sure if am digging too deep here, but it's fun to speculate about.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If he's a popular choice, then he's likely been considered during roster development.

 

[Wintropy]

King K.Rool might've probably either been too similar to Bowser for them to continue development, or he was partly created but scrapped due to lack of recent appearances and other ideas they had to work on (Shulk, Duck Hunt, PacMan, Mii- all rather late additions).

Duck Hunt was planned from the beginning.

Source.

 

[toadster101]

Duck Hunt was planned from the beginning.

Source.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if this were true, the link you posted says no such thing. The only definite late additions we know of are Bowser Jr. and the clone characters. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a concept for K. Rool planned but never went forward with it because they wanted to prioritize characters who have appeared in recent games, sans Duck Hunt. It must be a really slow news week, since it seems like we've already had this discussion multiple times. I'm sure we'll have a lot more to talk about after E3.

 

[Wintropy]

Though I wouldn't be surprised if this were true, the link you posted says no such thing. The only definite late additions we know of are Bowser Jr. and the clone characters. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a concept for K. Rool planned but never went forward with it because they wanted to prioritize characters who have appeared in recent games, sans Duck Hunt. It must be a really slow news week, since it seems like we've already had this discussion multiple times. I'm sure we'll have a lot more to talk about after E3.

Wait, what?

Sorry, wrong article~ Bear with me, I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere. I'll post my results shortly.

Okay, my apologies. I somehow got that article conflated with this article and presumed it meant the Duo were planned from the get-go. Still, I think the fact that Sakurai talks about their importance suggests they were always planned.

 

[BKupa666]

These discussions are always intriguing. On one hand, we have no idea how "last minute" last minute was for Jr. On the other, Bowser had his new stance, N-Air and F-Smash back at E3 2013, so I don't think those were late changes at all.

The biggest smoking gun toward "less relevant" characters being planned and scrapped is in Sakurai's quote about them being low priority and existing as cut characters (will dig up the interview when I'm not on mobile). Could've referred to Wolf and Lucas, of course, but when other "irrelevant" veterans made it back without a hitch, it would seem to reference some newcomer(s) instead. Out of those, K. Rool and Isaac seem probable candidates (with the latter, I could definitely see Shulk pushing him out just based on superficial similarities).

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

K.Rool had to have been considered at some point. I feel like Brawl may have been his strongest point of consideration. Honestly looking at this all from a glass half full point of view, K.Rools fanbase which is actually increasing believe it or not due to the Kremling Kampaign (added to the large fanbase he had even earlier) is getting louder and Nintendo has to be listening. Sakurai has commented on Ridleys omittence and even Takamaru yet K. Rools absence is never discussed. Maybe he is being considered as DLC as we speak. If Retro is making a DKC3 in their series hopefully the King is going to return and what better way to market the return of Rool than having him as a newcomer to Smash as DLC. Mewtwo was number one to come back and boom he's DLC. King K. Rool is currently THE number one requested newcomer for Sm4sh. It's stated in multiple articles that he's the top wanted newcomer in Japan and here in the states those who have excepted the unfortunate fate of Ridley are pushing for King K. Rool making him top over here aswell. It's a win win for Nintendo to please fans by bringing him back. You also have to figure Nintendo has something powerful held back for this years E3 especially since Zelda is being pushed back beyond 2015. That's a serious blow to Nintendos 2015 plan, DK is a strong franchise here in the US and has grown more popular in Japan over the past few years. K. Rools Japanese popularity plus the overall popularity of the series anything K.Rool related, smash related or not would make a hype announcement at E3 especially if it's a DKC game where the formula is similar to DK64. There's also the possibility of Diddy Kong Racing 2 which opens an opertunity for K.Rool. Maybe.....MAYBE they've been planning to make him DLC and were holding him for a good opportunity. It could also be a good indication of how possible Smash DLC will be released, Wolf coming back along side the new Star Fox? Isaac coming alongside an unannounced Golden Sun game? The possibilities are there. Those who are naysaying us for hoping for these things have to atleast see that Nintendo is embracing DLC, look at Mario Kart, Hyrule Warriors, Mewtwo in Smash, it's not unreasonable to come to these conclusions. Smash is a great window to hype their other games.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

K.Rool had to have been considered at some point. I feel like Brawl may have been his strongest point of consideration. Honestly looking at this all from a glass half full point of view, K.Rools fanbase which is actually increasing believe it or not due to the Kremling Kampaign (added to the large fanbase he had even earlier) is getting louder and Nintendo has to be listening. Sakurai has commented on Ridleys omittence and even Takamaru yet K. Rools absence is never discussed. Maybe he is being considered as DLC as we speak. If Retro is making a DKC3 in their series hopefully the King is going to return and what better way to market the return of Rool than having him as a newcomer to Smash as DLC. Mewtwo was number one to come back and boom he's DLC. King K. Rool is currently THE number one requested newcomer for Sm4sh. It's stated in multiple articles that he's the top wanted newcomer in Japan and here in the states those who have excepted the unfortunate fate of Ridley are pushing for King K. Rool making him top over here aswell. It's a win win for Nintendo to please fans by bringing him back. You also have to figure Nintendo has something powerful held back for this years E3 especially since Zelda is being pushed back beyond 2015. That's a serious blow to Nintendos 2015 plan, DK is a strong franchise here in the US and has grown more popular in Japan over the past few years. K. Rools Japanese popularity plus the overall popularity of the series anything K.Rool related, smash related or not would make a hype announcement at E3 especially if it's a DKC game where the formula is similar to DK64. There's also the possibility of Diddy Kong Racing 2 which opens an opertunity for K.Rool. Maybe.....MAYBE they've been planning to make him DLC and were holding him for a good opportunity. It could also be a good indication of how possible Smash DLC will be released, Wolf coming back along side the new Star Fox? Isaac coming alongside an unannounced Golden Sun game? The possibilities are there. Those who are naysaying us for hoping for these things have to atleast see that Nintendo is embracing DLC, look at Mario Kart, Hyrule Warriors, Mewtwo in Smash, it's not unreasonable to come to these conclusions. Smash is a great window to hype their other games.

So far he only mentioned characters who already have a role, IC being the exception. Chrom, Ridley and Takamaru. Chrom being the only non BS one

 

[Dre89]

I don't think there's any big mystery to his exclusion.

No recent appearances, not retro and isn't guaranteed a future in the DK series.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I don't think there's any big mystery to his exclusion.

No recent appearances, not retro and isn't guaranteed a future in the DK series.

Of course if the rereleases of the original Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong Land games mean anything, not to mention his appearance in King Of Swing for GBA which is also on the VC E-Shop.

 

[BKupa666]

I don't think there's any big mystery to his exclusion.

No recent appearances, not retro and isn't guaranteed a future in the DK series.

I don't think anyone's questioning that this hurt his standing, just questioning how significantly it did. . .was K. Rool denied immediately on the basis of "not in a new game" or did he get considered/developed at all before getting the axe?

 

[Dre89]

I don't think anyone's questioning that this hurt his standing, just questioning how significantly it did. . .was K. Rool denied immediately on the basis of "not in a new game" or did he get considered/developed at all before getting the axe?

I think he would've been considered, but tons of way more insignificant characters would have been considered too.

I just think he wouldn't have been considered important enough. Sakurai seems to consider DK a Mario sub. Most unique newcomers were higher priority than K. Jr and Rosa represent the new gen of Mario and are marketable. WFT is modern and reps the third largest franchise. Mega and Pac are more iconic. DHD was probs less popular but has greater historical significance due to being bundled with the original NES. Don't know anything about Robin. Palutena was because of Uprising popularity and bias.

If you look at the franchises didn't get new rep, they're mostly the mid level ones that don't have new mainstay characters. If TF came out well before Smash and was hugely successful, I think Dixie would have been more likely.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I think he would've been considered, but tons of way more insignificant characters would have been considered too.

I just think he wouldn't have been considered important enough. Sakurai seems to consider DK a Mario sub. Most unique newcomers were higher priority than K. Jr and Rosa represent the new gen of Mario and are marketable. WFT is modern and reps the third largest franchise. Mega and Pac are more iconic. DHD was probs less popular but has greater historical significance due to being bundled with the original NES. Don't know anything about Robin. Palutena was because of Uprising popularity and bias.

If you look at the franchises didn't get new rep, they're mostly the mid level ones that don't have new mainstay characters. If TF came out well before Smash and was hugely successful, I think Dixie would have been more likely.

TF did come out before Smash and was hugely successful.

 

[Dre89]

TF did come out before Smash and was hugely successful.

I said 'way before' because the roster had already been decided before TF came out. TF got no real content in this game except for music and trophies rushed in at the back end of development.

And it hasn't been that successful. It was only months after the Wii U Smash had been released that TF reached over 1 million sales of physical copies. Compare this to Returns which sold over 6 million copies (pretty sure that's not including the 3DS port).

 

[Arcanir]

You have to remember that the Wii U has a substantially smaller install base then the Wii, so it surpassing 1 million is a good thing considering the majority of the games on the system aren't even close to reaching that number.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Any game on Wii U surpassing 1 million copies sold is a miracle. TF didn't get any higher because it was on Wii U, not because DK isn't popular anymore. Animal Crossing would probably suffer the same, probably even a WORSE fate because Animal Crossing is a casual game. I have my doubts we'll even get an Animal Crossing game on Wii U precisely for this reason.

 

[ShinyRegice]

I don't think there's any big mystery to his exclusion.

No recent appearances, not retro and isn't guaranteed a future in the DK series.

I'm sorry but I think the "retro" argument really has no value. I mean, why should an obscure game protagonist from the 1980s have the advantage over someone from the 2000s? The "retro" factor only mattered once with the Ice Climbers, as Sakurai wanted a NES character predating Super Mario Bros. I believe, and even then he choose them over many other potential choices because they inspired a gimmick no one else could have. Other "retro" characters were chosen for their historical value (G&W, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt) or, in Pit's case, because Sakurai wanted to reinvent his universe, as proven by the heavy redesigns in Brawl and later confirmed with his own creation in the form of KI:U, but overall I believe the "retro factor" barely means anything. I think this is proven further by how the Ice Climber universe getting no special treatment from Nintendo made cutting the ICs easier for Sakurai and how he rejected Takamaru in spite of being interested in him because he was "too obscure" (in other words, he doesn't want to reinvent his universe by himself like he did with KI and is waiting for someone else to do it before putting him as a playable character in Smash).

tl;dr The fact that King K. Rool comes from the 1990s and not the 1980s means absolutely nothing. Though I agree with the other arguments you said (even though I hope the "no future" one is proven wrong sooner or later).

Oh, and btw, these are the "Retro reps" we all need:

Spoiler

 

[IMainKingKRool]

I was just reading a discussion on the prospect of additional Wario characters in Smash, and the idea that Mario sub-universes shouldn't get too many representatives was brought up. Someone then placed Yoshi, Wario, and Donkey Kong under this classification of sub-Mario. Can I just say, I HATE it when people call DK a sub-division of the Mario franchise. But could this perhaps have had a hand in K. Rool's and/or Dixie's dismissal?

 

[Wintropy]

Whatever about Yoshi, which is as spinoff a series as they come, Wario and Donkey Kong's series are very much their own universes.

 

[FalKoopa]

I was just reading a discussion on the prospect of additional Wario characters in Smash, and the idea that Mario sub-universes shouldn't get too many representatives was brought up. Someone then placed Yoshi, Wario, and Donkey Kong under this classification of sub-Mario. Can I just say, I HATE it when people call DK a sub-division of the Mario franchise. But could this perhaps have had a hand in K. Rool's and/or Dixie's dismissal?

For all we know, it's only the players who categorise it like that. We don't know Sakurai's stance on it.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I was just reading a discussion on the prospect of additional Wario characters in Smash, and the idea that Mario sub-universes shouldn't get too many representatives was brought up. Someone then placed Yoshi, Wario, and Donkey Kong under this classification of sub-Mario. Can I just say, I HATE it when people call DK a sub-division of the Mario franchise. But could this perhaps have had a hand in K. Rool's and/or Dixie's dismissal?

I kinda doubt it. It is ridiculous how DK is always attributed to being a sub-division of Mario, rather, it was one franchise that was split into two franchises. Yoshi and Wario started off as part of the Mario franchise. Donkey Kong and Mario started off in the "Donkey Kong" series of games, then Mario split off, then Donkey Kong did. Donkey Kong didn't even start appearing in Mario spinoff games until Donkey Kong Country came out.

If you look at DK's representation in Smash Bros., DK has always had pretty good representation on his own. The DK franchise did not get a second character until Brawl, but that's probably more due to Rare than anything else. The buyout years were the worst time for DKC since there wasn't anything going on for the DKC franchise, so they were just creating spinoffs and adding DK characters to Mario games. In recent years, only DK himself has been appearing in Mario spinoffs, while DK's allies, who have no connections to Mario save for the vague connection through DK himself, have not been appearing at all.

Plus, DK is the only "so-called" Mario spinoff franchise to have more than one playable character.

Whatever about Yoshi, which is as spinoff a series as they come, Wario and Donkey Kong's series are very much their own universes.

The problem with saying that is Wario would not have existed without Mario. Wario even started as a spinoff of Mario Land, and Wario tends to appear fairly often in Mario games. The only time I can recall DK ever appearing in a non-sports/racing Mario game is Yoshi's Island DS, where he appears as Baby Donkey Kong. Granted, the last time I recall Wario appearing in such a thing (he was also in Yoshi's Island DS) is Super Mario 64 DS, where he was added as a playable character. Other than those two games Wario has only ever been in Mario sports games ever since Super Mario Land 2, I believe.


Still, it is important to note that both Wario and Yoshi's franchises started off as sequels to main Mario games, with Wario Land started off on Game Boy and Yoshi's Island being the subtitle for "Super Mario World 2." Donkey Kong and Mario both debuted in the same game and both spun off from that game, so they're more like sibling franchises than DK being a sub-franchise of Mario.


WarioWare admittedly is completely separate and distinct from Mario, and has no similarities to the Mario games whatsoever. The Wario franchise I'd still argue is closer to a sub-franchise than DK is.

 

[Wintropy]

- Snip -

Yeah, I'm referring to WarioWare specifically.

 

[Thelimomon]

I think we all can agree with this:
Yoshi's Islad/Story/etc. and Wario Land/World/etc. are Mario spinoffs but WarioWare and Donkey Kong are seperated franchises.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think we all can agree with this:
Yoshi's Islad/Story/etc. and Wario Land/World/etc. are Mario spinoffs but WarioWare and Donkey Kong are seperated franchises.

What's hilarious about this is that WarioWare effectively counts as a separate franchise... even from the other Wario games (Wario Land). I call Wario a semi-spinoff because of Mario Land, and because of the fact that Wario would not inherently exist without Mario in the first place. Technically, in the original Donkey Kong games, Donkey Kong was really the star of the game anyway. They didn't even give Mario a real name (except for "a man that jumps"... Jumpman).

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

Hey Kutthroats I don't want to derail the current conversation, I just wanted share the finished product of my K. Rool figure with you guys! He's not 100% done I have to paint on the embroidery at the bottom of his cape. For the most part though here is





Funny thing is about considering DK a "sub-series" I don't even think Nintendo considers it that way. DK himself only
Appears in crossovers due to his past history with Mario but notice the lack of other Kongs and DK enemies in most crossover titles, Mario Kart and Super sluggers being the exception. Mario party has yet to feature any other DK characters, strikers did have Kritter goalies but they weren't major. I think Nintendo attempts to keep the main line DK stuff separate from the Mario stuff. Look at the current Mario Kart no Diddy, no Funky, no new Kong appearances just DK.....

 

[King_K_Rules]

Hey Kutthroats I don't want to derail the current conversation, I just wanted share the finished product of my K. Rool figure with you guys! He's not 100% done I have to paint on the embroidery at the bottom of his cape. For the most part though here is

View attachment 44877 View attachment 44878 View attachment 44879



Funny thing is about considering DK a "sub-series" I don't even think Nintendo considers it that way. DK himself only
Appears in crossovers due to his past history with Mario but notice the lack of other Kongs and DK enemies in most crossover titles, Mario Kart and Super sluggers being the exception. Mario party has yet to feature any other DK characters, strikers did have Kritter goalies but they weren't major. I think Nintendo attempts to keep the main line DK stuff separate from the Mario stuff. Look at the current Mario Kart no Diddy, no Funky, no new Kong appearances just DK.....

Wow. Good job on the figurine. I so want one.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

Wow. Good job on the figurine. I so want one.

Thank you! I wish I could mass produce them I would deffinetly share them with my fellow K.Rool enthusiasts!

 

[TallT]

Can I join King K. Rool's Kutthroats. I've actually been supporting his inclusion and lurking in this thread for over a year and hope he can join soon as DLC.

 

[BravadoMan_13]

Can I join King K. Rool's Kutthroats. I've actually been supporting his inclusion and lurking in this thread for over a year and hope he can join soon as DLC.

Welkome aboard new Kutthroat!

Hey Kutthroats I don't want to derail the current conversation, I just wanted share the finished product of my K. Rool figure with you guys! He's not 100% done I have to paint on the embroidery at the bottom of his cape. For the most part though here is

View attachment 44877 View attachment 44878 View attachment 44879



Funny thing is about considering DK a "sub-series" I don't even think Nintendo considers it that way. DK himself only
Appears in crossovers due to his past history with Mario but notice the lack of other Kongs and DK enemies in most crossover titles, Mario Kart and Super sluggers being the exception. Mario party has yet to feature any other DK characters, strikers did have Kritter goalies but they weren't major. I think Nintendo attempts to keep the main line DK stuff separate from the Mario stuff. Look at the current Mario Kart no Diddy, no Funky, no new Kong appearances just DK.....

Looks pretty awesome! Nice work!

 

[Dre89]

Funny thing is about considering DK a "sub-series" I don't even think Nintendo considers it that way. DK himself only
Appears in crossovers due to his past history with Mario but notice the lack of other Kongs and DK enemies in most crossover titles, Mario Kart and Super sluggers being the exception. Mario party has yet to feature any other DK characters, strikers did have Kritter goalies but they weren't major. I think Nintendo attempts to keep the main line DK stuff separate from the Mario stuff. Look at the current Mario Kart no Diddy, no Funky, no new Kong appearances just DK.....

Mario Strikers Charged had Diddy too

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes, and I loved Diddy in that game! His deke was so fun, jumping over the goalies and whatnot. Mario Strikers Charged was a game I played almost as intensively as Smash with my Smash buddy (who I play Smash 4 with, don't own a Wii U myself).

Am actually cool with Kongs appearing in the Mario spin-off games, but not at the expense of no Donkey Kong games obviously. Sure, if Diddy was in Mario Kart 8 like he was in Wii and Double Dash I'd love it. But I'd love Diddy Kong Racing back even more so.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hey guys.

Soon. pic.twitter.com/Ytvyoumr8w

— Playtonic - Wishlist ELSIE! (@PlaytonicGames) March 31, 2015

Rare's back

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Hey guys.

Soon. pic.twitter.com/Ytvyoumr8w

— Playtonic - Wishlist ELSIE! (@PlaytonicGames) March 31, 2015

Rare's back

I get a very good feeling that Playtonic will be involved with the third DKCR game wether Retro is still involved with it or not. The Kremlings are pretty much back.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I get a very good feeling that Playtonic will be involved with the third DKCR game wether Retro is still involved with it or not. The Kremlings are pretty much back.

I don't get where people suggest that... It'd be cool, yeah, but just because they're starting to come back into the picture people suddenly think they'll be up working with Nintendo again?


Kremlings are pretty much back, that I'll agree on.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I don't get where people suggest that... It'd be cool, yeah, but just because they're starting to come back into the picture people suddenly think they'll be up working with Nintendo again?


Kremlings are pretty much back, that I'll agree on.

Yes nothing has been made official but someone on the team did say they were interested in working with nintendo again or at least making a game for them.

 

[cephalopod17]

Do you guys think we will see any K. Rool/DK related news in the Nintendo Direct tomorrow?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Do you guys think we will see any K. Rool/DK related news in the Nintendo Direct tomorrow?

Likely not but I'd love it