Smash 3DS 3DS Japanese Release Build Demo Event Day II (Keep questions for AMA after event) [TY Zipzo's Wife]

[Une]

do you mean you can cancel the INITIAL dash with shield, or the later running animation?

Everybody is saying you can cancel RUN with shield and I can only assume they mean DASH. Because you could already cancel run with shield in Bawrl. It's just kinda annoying/confusing because there is a BIG difference between DASH and RUN.

But yeah if you can cancel DASH with shield you might have some kind of pseudo dash-dancing in the game. Dash>Shield, repeat in other direction.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Sonic does not have the disjointed hitbox on his utilt anymore.

 

[MMM_AJ]

You need more evidence beyond no characters having been unlocked after dozens of matches played?

Sorry, was just curious since a lot of people seem to be watching offsite stuff like twitter and I'm mostly just camping this thread. I'll stop being a hassle.

 

[mark welford]

that palette swap for fox in no way deconfirms wolf those are not wolf colors wolf is grey fur, blue scouter and blue clothes not dark fur, purple scouter and grey clothes.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Sonic does not have the disjointed hitbox on his utilt anymore.

Did you notice Bandana Dee in King Dedede's victory scene?

that palette swap for fox in no way deconfirms wolf those are not wolf colors he described wolf is grey fur, blue scouter and blue clothes not dark fur, purple scouter and grey clothes.

Wario deconfirmed. Since Mario palette swap.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, like, Marth is literally about his range and his tippers. That's the entire design around his character. Nerfing the hell out of that is like making Captain Falcon slow.

I never actually mentioned the tipper, although I did mention his range.

I also mentioned his strong aerial game (which is of low priority now), his ability to control space, and his ability to combo.

You can disagree with those specific arguments, but don't pretend like one or the other is my only argument.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

True, but you don't have to take away pretty much all of his strengths.

Something similar to Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, and Captain Falcon from Melee to Brawl, and they all turned out horribly.

Then there's Kirby in Melee, which I still think Kirby hasn't recovered from.

It just seems like instead of taking the DOTA 2 "make the weaknesses greater to balance them" approach they went the LoL "NERF THEM INTO OBLIVION" route.

The LOL balance one is entirely wrong in of itself but not gonna go into it here.

Dunno the full details as it relates to the cast outside of theory so I do think this will hit him, but to what extent is still in the air. Shaya think it will be hefty, but I'll wait and see when the full cast can be compared.

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

Yeesh, Marth got the nerf bat pretty hard. I guess he did manage to avoid it for like 10 years. I'm more excited than ever about Shulk though, I'd love to hear more about him.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

that palette swap for fox in no way deconfirms wolf those are not wolf colors wolf is grey fur, blue scouter and blue clothes not dark fur, purple scouter and grey clothes.

It's not dark fur. It literally makes fox GRAY. The actual color. A light gray.

 

[FlynnCL]

I'm interested to see how Bonus Fruit will affect Pac-Man's playstyle. He looks so fun and weird to play as.

Does anyone know if Pac-Man can hold the charge? I also wonder if there's more after the Galaxian Starship...

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

Yeesh, Marth got the nerf bat pretty hard. I guess he did manage to avoid it for like 10 years. I'm more excited than ever about Shulk though, I'd love to hear more about him.

Didn't Marth's counter get buffed? I know he's getting nerfed and all, but what are his current strengths?

 

[mark welford]

It's not dark fur. It literally makes fox GRAY. The actual color. A light gray.

but wolf's scouter is blue not purple kind sir so no that does not deconfirm wolf.

 

[Das Koopa]

I don't really think it debunks Wolf either especially given the scouter/blue clothes. Even if, we still have things like the Mario and Kirby color palettes that are meant to represent other characters.

Also, is Blood Falcon an alt or is there a Black-Shadow theme color scheme?

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Didn't Marth's counter get buffed? I know he's getting nerfed and all, but what are his current strengths?

His counter has KO power now. I can confirm this as my pants are still wet from the moment when that poor bowser attacked me while clumped up on everyone.

 

[S£NPAI]

She's a clone of Marth, so I don't see how this info helps her in any way

her power is distributed through the Falchion, unlike Marth's

 

[Johnknight1]

Dunno the full details as it relates to the cast outside of theory so I do think this will hit him, but to what extent is still in the air. Shaya think it will be hefty, but I'll wait and see when the full cast can be compared.

Very true, but all this is based on the demos that are old.

But again, every top Melee Marth player but M2K responded negatively. PPMD (the world's best Marth), PPU, and even Ken (although he kinda backtracked) had negative things to say about Marth's design. Even Mike Haze (the best Brawl Marth) responded negatively to Marth's design changes.

If their opinions remain unchanged on Marth on Smash 4 in the final build, they're probably right, much like Captain Falcon and Jigglypuff mains on their thoughts on those characters in Brawl.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Does anyone know all confirmed Diddy color palettes? I want to know if Dixie-color one is in or not.

 

[Sqid]

Keep in mind if Dixie palette is in or not, Mario still has a Wario palette, yet he's also in.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

You need more evidence beyond no characters having been unlocked after dozens of matches played?

I don't think it's out of the range of possibility that there may need to be 50-100 matches played for a character to unlock. Depending on how long this event is, and how long it's run each day, we may see a character unlock by match numbers.

If not, then either every character is unlocked some other way (unlikely, imo, since match numbers are one of the easiest ways to unlock) or they disabled it in this demo version only.

 

[Hukuzo]

Didn't Marth's counter get buffed? I know he's getting nerfed and all, but what are his current strengths?

Marth's counter in the earlier demo had knockback relative to the attack received, easily KOing characters.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

but wolf's scouter is blue not purple kind sir so no that does not deconfirm wolf.

Well you're right in that it doesn't deconfirm him.

 

[mark welford]

Well you're right in that it doesn't deconfirm him.

thank you.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Marth can probably still do most of what he could do before, just in a more low tier kinda way. He was kinda like this in the E3 demo, basically just a worse version of his old self. Remember what happened to Jigglypuff in the Melee to Brawl transition? It's too early to be sure, but I'd brace yourselves for Marth being the same this time (maybe not quite as brutally wrecked), and I struggle to see how Lucina is going to save the moveset since he's still a spacing based swordsman no matter how you slice it, and having no tippers is just a bad thing. It's okay though; not every character can be a winner, and if Marth is the unlucky loser this time, so be it. He wasn't more deserving of high tier than any other character, and from what we've seen and heard so far, there aren't a lot of characters as unlucky as he is.

That Pac-Man clarification is interesting and kinda in-line with what I was expecting from the earlier reports. The description of him having "quirky" movements likewise is encouraging that his mobility may not be so bad, just different. Like in Brawl G&W's movement parameters are not so good when direct compared to the important parameters on other characters, but then he has this special ability to decelerate in the air really, really fast that effectively gives him great aerial movement once the player figures it out. I'm hoping Pac-Man is the same with "quirky" meaning he has some non-traditional movement parameters that average out to good in the end.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

What's the deal with the balancing these games? Marth is getting the Captain Falcon treatment from Brawl. Know what they have in common. They are both solid characters who didn't rely on gimmicky crap (besides a few risky character specific things)to succeed. There abilities were completely dependent on the player and his/her creativity. No laser camping, no illusioning across the stage, no absurd jab locks, no shine spikes and no smash spam. Just good clean fighting.

Why are they nerfing honest characters?

 

[Demon-oni]

I think also I heard Marth's up throw having KO power. Which just sounds....awkward to me, but I'll get used to it. That is if it's still around from the E3 build.

 

[DarkShadow20]

So are things being unlocked as people are playing matches?

 

[Johnknight1]

Marth's counter in the earlier demo had knockback relative to the attack received, easily KOing characters.

My brother played Marth and used it on my Toon Link in the middle of Rainbow Road and it KO'd me at I think 78%.

That is a very useful strength that was added. I will say that. I fear for what Ike's counter's strength is like though... *shivers*

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

I never actually mentioned the tipper, although I did mention his range.

I also mentioned his strong aerial game (which is of low priority now), his ability to control space, and his ability to combo.

You can disagree with those specific arguments, but don't pretend like one or the other is my only argument.

Hey, buddy, no need to get snappy. The post of yours that I responded to was this one:

"True, but you don't have to take away pretty much all of his strengths.
Something similar to Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, and Captain Falcon from Melee to Brawl, and they all turned out horribly.
Then there's Kirby in Melee, which I still think Kirby hasn't recovered from.
It just seems like instead of taking the DOTA 2 "make the weaknesses greater to balance them" approach they went the LoL "NERF THEM INTO OBLIVION" route."

This post makes no mention of Marth's specific strengths, so there's no reason for you to get mad. I was merely agreeing with what you said in the post that I responded to.

 

[Kamikam70]

Before all this, I thought I would use Robin as my new main (due to Awakening being one of my favorite games ever)...
But now, I'm 120% sure. He's strong AND fast ? What else could I ask for ? That's absolutely great.

I wonder what Robin's alt colors look like...

Anyway, thanks a lot for all these informations, Zipzo. I'm more hyped than ever !

 

[GameDragon]

What's the deal with the balancing these games? Marth is getting the Captain Falcon treatment from Brawl. Know what they have in common. They are both solid characters who didn't rely on gimmicky crap (besides a few risky character specific things)to succeed. There abilities were completely dependent on the player and his/her creativity. No laser camping, no illusioning across the stage, no absurd jab locks, no shine spikes and no smash spam. Just good clean fighting.

Why are they nerfing honest characters?

As widely liked as Marth is, he quite honestly he deserved the nerf imo.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

It sounds like Marth's focus has more or less shifted, though in total it's probably going to amount to a nerf. I don't think Marth really needed a nerf though, he's fine in Brawl where his range was already nerfed from Melee, the only characters I'd nerf from Brawl are Meta Knight, Ice Climbers, Diddy Kong, Olimar and Snake, the rest are either fine or need a lot of buffs. Luckily it sounds like Meta Knight and Diddy have received some very justified nerfs, Olimar has probably been nerfed in the long run too, and ICs and Snake are simply just not in the game.

Anyways, here's hoping Lucina can deliver where Marth doesn't.

 

[Johnknight1]

I take offense to that. If anything, R.O.B. has a very well made moveset with a variety of strategies to use with it. The only two mediocre moves are his side b and his down air. But let's not delve into this here.

ROB's style in Brawl revolves around camping, a set style that goes against what Smash 4 is based around. Smash 4 is intended to be more "action packed" and projectiles seemed to have been nerfed. The removal of most long range projectiles likely means ROB will similarly change.

Naturally adjusting that camping style to where ROB still relies on projectiles in close range is what would thus need to happen at the very least.

Similar things happened with Pit it seems, and they were for the better. I am hoping ROB ends up looking a lot like how Pit looks, because I think Pit in Smash 4 looks incredible.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I made a new thread since mods deleted my post. I thought people would have been interested and thought it would be helpful/useful but I suppose not.

It'll get swept away in here anyway, putting in a place people will see it might be better anyhow.

AMA starting soon!

 

[Maraphy]

her power is distributed through the Falchion, unlike Marth's

I know that, but like, I'm assuming all of this "less range" and "nerfed f-air" stuff would apply to her as well

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

I think also I heard Marth's up throw having KO power. Which just sounds....awkward to me, but I'll get used to it. That is if it's still around from the E3 build.

That does sound strange. Normally, characters with magic grabs, like Zelda or Rosalina, tend to have more KO power than sword wielders.

I also can't shake off this feeling that all down-special counters have some sort of start-up lag... I thought I saw this during the E3 demo. I wonder if that's still the case.

 

[Noctes]

I made a new thread since mods deleted my post. I thought people would have been interested and thought it would be helpful/useful but I suppose not.

It's not that it wasn't helpful/useful, it was just off-topic.

Edit: I should probably say something on-topic as well while I'm posting here, so here's my personal thanks to Zipzo for taking the time to take all of this information from the event and posting it here for us.

 

[S£NPAI]

I know that, but like, I'm assuming all of this "less range" and "nerfed f-air" stuff would apply to her as well

Not if she has different properties in her moveset overall. It could be just like the difference between Roy and Marth.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

So are things being unlocked as people are playing matches?

No, no one has been unlocked, it is still the starting roster. There haven't been enough matches to tell for sure whether anyone will eventually be unlocked by the time the event is done, though.

 

[Alex Night]

What's the deal with the balancing these games? Marth is getting the Captain Falcon treatment from Brawl. Know what they have in common. They are both solid characters who didn't rely on gimmicky crap (besides a few risky character specific things)to succeed. There abilities were completely dependent on the player and his/her creativity. No laser camping, no illusioning across the stage, no absurd jab locks, no shine spikes and no smash spam. Just good clean fighting.

Why are they nerfing honest characters?

I think the problem stems from how Marth has a lot of depth to him, but it is easy to understand/pick up on it. I mean, you gotta admit that Marth is very prevalent because of how much of a spacing monster he is. He can basically lead you into spacing traps from his throws for KO potential or extending combos. Honestly, Marth might be fine aside from being outclassed by other characters with range like Shulk; just that he won't be as guaranteed to understand immediately to actually be skilled with him.

 

[AEMehr]

It's not dark fur. It literally makes fox GRAY. The actual color. A light gray.

Sounds more like a reference to Wolf's appearance in Melee than a straight disconfirmation, but we'll see what happens.