Jigglypuff Discussion

[Pink_Kirby]

In normal English there are two common meanings for the word "drill". One is for training exercises (like fire/evacuation drills) and the other is for making holes in things with sharp rotating objects (drill bits). So the language conservatism part of me cringes a little when drill is used for all multi-hit attacks, even ones that look nothing like drills.

However true drill-like attacks aren't really different from any other multi-hit attack as far as the game mechanics are concerned. All multi-hit attacks can be DI'd out of with varying degrees of difficulty which has very little to do with whether or not the attack looks like a conventional "drill". So, singling out those attacks as a separate category doesn't seem particularly useful.

To be pedantic, the use of "drill" (which itself only strictly applies to some multi-hit attacks), to refer to all multi-hit attacks (this is what smashwiki does btw), is an example of a language construct called "synecdoche". It's a "figure of speech" and in my (biased) opinion most figures of speech simply cause confusion while accomplishing little and should be confined to the literary realm. I think it would be much easier to find a better name for multi-hit attacks (like, how about "multi-hit attack"? Or, the previously suggested "auto-combo" is quite accurate as well) and that way we can avoid the debate and confusion caused by using figures of speech.

 

[ballin4life]

Yeah I use the term drill to mean a certain classification of attacks based on how you can follow them up.

That's why I wouldn't consider Samus's upB or usmash to be drills, because you use them differently.

 

[asianaussie]

If you refer to a drill as a class of aerial, it should be defined with a technical mechanic or gameplay purpose in mind, not based on aesthetics.

Yoshi D-Air is a drill, Samus U-Air is a drill, Pika/Kirby F-Air is a drill, all spinning multi-hit D-Airs are drills.

 

[The Star King]

drills are Mario/Luigi/Fox/Jigg/Kirby Dair, Kirby Fair and Samus Uair because they look like drills. Imo Yoshi Dair isn't a drill. Why calling it a drill if it doesn't look like a drill?

This.

Yoshi's dair is not a drill.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Looks like a drill to me.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

^^^ Yes!!!
imo, it doesn't have to actually "look" as a drill (as the actual meaning for the word) but in the game I'd say it counts as a drill.

 

[dch111]

I like s2j's indirect definition for all practical purposes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0LrNKTdaxA#t=0m59s

 

[killmaster]

I used to main jigg and puff can be really strong or make huge comeback with 0 to death but pika can screw jigg well since it's impossible to grab him

my fav starter combo are
1 : fthrow, uair ,dair, up tilt, rest (work at 0% on pika or 9-13 % on falcon)
2 : fthrow, uair, uair, rest (work at 0 % on kirby :o or 9-13 % on pika)
3 : fthrow, up tilt, up tilt, fthrow, up air, up air , rest ( work at 0 on falcon and link)

I may put % for other character if u want ..as you me know against advance player it's hard to plug these combo but i was able to comeback some match with these + i thought it will be better to talk about puff related than what's a drill <_<

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

pika can screw jigg well since it's impossible to grab him

MindGames!

my fav starter combo are
1 : fthrow, uair ,dair, up tilt, rest (work at 0% on pika or 9-13 % on falcon)
2 : fthrow, uair, uair, rest (work at 0 % on kirby :o or 9-13 % on pika)
3 : fthrow, up tilt, up tilt, fthrow, up air, up air , rest ( work at 0 on falcon and link)

That doesn't work, why...? DI!
-Gigglypuff -> fthrow -> uair = X wrong, breaks because of DIing down after the uair most of the cases so the DI user will land before you could attack him again, with the option of a shield jump to avoid another grab if that gets to be the case and so mny more options.

 

[killmaster]

well first of all there a lot of player who don't know how to DI or DI properly so it's not a big deal plus if they DI downward you just follow with a drill

Jigg drill is a good DI chaser and i don't think jigg is so weak ..
yeah she can have hard time with some matchup like luigi ... but still she have decent edgeguard game against predictable recovery character

and mind games is not all against pika since if you shield any of is attack he can grab you before you can move -_-, anyway at least he have a good size to be rest at a decent %

finally were supposed to give advice with jigg not only blame her that she can't do stuff at a higher level .. cuz I saw boomfan and smasher74 and jigg was awesome :O

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

if they DI downward you just follow with a drill

Wrong...

the DI user will land before you could attack him again

...because of thet: ^^^

finally were supposed to give advice with jigg not only blame her that she can't do stuff at a higher level

Is not blaming her, is actually giving the advices of what NOT to do with her. xD

cuz I saw boomfan and smasher74 and jigg was awesome :O

And yes, of course, any character can be awesome in a good player's hand.

 

[killmaster]

Is there anyone who have tips for me ...

I can generally do pretty well against pika, fox , dk, falcon

but i'm having super hard time against kirby ... and hard time vs luigi

I was wondering what is the better strategy to fight them ....

cuz good kirby are hard to approach and you can't drill them since they'll punish you with up tilt
I need help please but i don't want to hear use nair everytime you can -_-

 

[asianaussie]

If you don't want to hear that, then there's not much you can do. N-Air is ok if he's facing towards you and is basically you best option (plus techchasing or something).

Air camp him, he can't do much from below except U-Tilt, which can be beaten by timing puffs. Fail and you'll take an U-Tilt to the face, but meh.

 

[SSBPete]

I like s2j's indirect definition for all practical purposes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0LrNKTdaxA#t=0m59s

yoshi's dair is considered a drill in that vid

 

[th3kuzinator]

You're gonna need to air camp nairs until you can get him with a spaced (ff) dair. From there, cancel the dair if he is shielding, dont cancel it if he is not and proceed to grab/utilt/rest him depending on the situation,

For edgeguarding, use dsmash.

Dair and nair are really his only good offensive aerials, approaching with fair or bair is dumb.

 

[asianaussie]

Edgeguarding with N-Air from above beats like everything he has, and Jiggs actually gets ok vertical height if none of her jumps have been used. D-Smash is okay, but it might lose to Kirby N-Air or F-Air (it generally trades hits though) and does nothing against Kirby from above (if he's coming from above then just let him recover and don't risk getting spiked, because U-Air has pathetic range).

 

[ciaza]

If you go out to edgeguard kirby with jiggs there's a chance you'll get a dair to the face. I'd say Fmsash/Dsmash regardless if they come in high or low. (This is assuming the Kirby needs final cutter to recover.)

Against Luigi half of jiggs game is taken away lol. Don't be afraid to be a total dog and bthrow/edgeguard for some easy gimps if possible.

 

[killmaster]

yeah I just bthrow and gimp luigi when he recovers because it's like the only way to kill him -_-....
but thx for the advise vs kirby guys ...

so i'm gonna air space kirby forever and use nair advantage
still the only way to edgeguard a kirby who still have his jump is to nair him from above but it's risky ...

I personnaly think it's easier to fight pika with jigg than kirby with jigg...
and I had play some good pika :O

 

[Gammelnorsk]

i just nair people alot with jiggs

 

[NixxxoN]

Just a question on jiggs...

The combo fthrow->usmash->grab+fthrow->uair->rest on falcon works all the time vs a CPU, but is it reliable vs real players?

 

[ballin4life]

Don't think fthrow usmash grab combos

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

fthrow -> uptilt x2 -> regrab is a better option

 

[greenblob]

Yeah, uptilt to grab is better. But I think usmash works if there's a slope.

 

[ciaza]

I believe a TASer proved that it does not combo in response to a combo Blackshadow made not too long ago. However it can take some players who don't know of the "combo" by surprise but experienced players will do to jump at the right time to avoid the second grab.

Just use Fthrow>utilt>utilt>grab IMO (and two others apparently, I got NINJA'D) it doesn't technically combo either but I think it's almost impossible for them to escape.

 

[blaze3927]

Just use Fthrow>utilt>utilt>grab IMO (and two others apparently, I got NINJA'D) it doesn't technically combo either but I think it's almost impossible for them to escape.

im pretty sure it does technically combo if your fast enough on the turn around grab, but most players can di the utilt anyway.
and black shadows combo disproved was the fthrow pivot grab.

 

[The Star King]

Just use Fthrow>utilt>utilt>grab IMO (and two others apparently, I got NINJA'D) it doesn't technically combo either but I think it's almost impossible for them to escape.

I think it does. It can be DI'd up to avoid the grab, but then you can throw in another utilt. If they DI hard enough that it still doesn't bring them low enough for a grab, you can chain a ton of utilts on them -> rest lol

 

[ciaza]

im pretty sure it does technically combo if your fast enough on the turn around grab, but most players can di the utilt anyway.

I think it does. It can be DI'd up to avoid the grab, but then you can throw in another utilt. If they DI hard enough that it still doesn't bring them low enough for a grab, you can chain a ton of utilts on them -> rest lol

I'll take your word's for it then. Looks like this combo starter is the way to go then lol.

and black shadows combo disproved was the fthrow pivot grab.

Ah yes yes sorry got confused.

 

[NixxxoN]

k then why never ever the dumb cpu tries to get out by all means? Cpus are stupid but to an extent, and I thought they usually try different stuff if something doesnt work
I can always do that upthrow->usmash->grab in a plain zone

 

[blaze3927]

k then why never ever the dumb cpu tries to get out by all means? Cpus are stupid but to an extent, and I thought they usually try different stuff if something doesnt work
I can always do that upthrow->usmash->grab in a plain zone

same reason i can always stand right behind a cpu and have them roll back.

 

[The Star King]

Just replace grab with jab to check if it's a legit combo, you'll see that it's not NixxxoN.

 

[Gammelnorsk]

real men use reverse fair to side b

 

[blaze3927]

jigglypuff for date **** smasher,
sing to sleep
pound
rest once finished

 

[Kingbuilder]

real men use reverse fair to side b

Isn't reverse fair a bair? Excuse me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, I'm a noob so dair to Rest FTW!

 

[ciaza]

Reverse fair is using the reverse hitboxes of the fair to send them in the opposite direction they would normally go.

 

[blaze3927]

implying your also moving back with them so reverse fair pushes them right back into a rest hitbox.

 

[killmaster]

I found it a little easier to do it with the weak bair but meh it's almost the same thing ...
I also like the combo grab, fthrow, uptilt, uptilt, grab, fthrow, uair, uair, side b to rest I think it look great :D but i know oppenent can DI ... like everything else -_-
anyway it's harder to DI single hit compare to multi-hit attack...

oh and drill to rest is like the worst idea ever lol
even when the opponent does not DI you can miss ...

Is there anyone who can help me with the matchup yoshi ??

I was surprise at first but he can escape lot of things with is dj,djc

 

[Olikus]

Any tips on how to aproach samus with puff? I just get baired in the face >_<

 

[Sangoku]

Only approach with nair, combining normal ones and teleported ones.

Or even better, don't approach.

 

[ciaza]

Approach from above, but that's hard because Samus can get above you quickly. Air camp I spose lol.

 

[Olikus]

Just checked the match up chart, and puff hapens to be samus best matchup. No wonder it aint easy! But yeah dont get too hasty with aproaching sounds smart, but I like my puff agro (maybe why I get baired in the face all the time).