Is Samus even relevant now as projectile specialist?

[SmashWolf]

So in Smash 4 Samus' missiles seem to be exactly like Brawl's, except slower because of lack of missile canceling, a very vital technique. They don't reach very far, homing missiles have especially horrible range, and the charge shot seems to once again not be charge-able in midair.

The fact Samus has only had 3 projectiles(homing, super, and charge) in most games didn't matter because all of her projectiles were incredible(even if missiles couldn't kill at all in Brawl), and 3 projectiles was more than any other character could really wish for. However, now Megaman, Mii Gunner, Robin and even the villager have a big variety in projectiles, and everybody and their dog now has a charge shot(not to mention THEY can charge in midair T-T )

So.....with missiles becoming weak AND slow, and the oppertunity for charge shots decreasing everytime, Samus seems to be almost irrelevant as a projectile character. In all of her games, Other M excluded, Samus' mostly fights exclusively with her beams. There are technically also the morph ball bombs and the screw attack, but the bombs seem to be worthless again too....

Samus is easily Nintendo's most projectile-reliant character. So if you ask me, this would be a misrepresentation of her. Where did this fear of Samus' projectiles come from, and was this really necessary?

 

[im just peachy]

in my opinion, the fact at she has more than one projectiles, means she's still a projectile specialist.
not one character is better than the others, the mii gunner might have range, but im sure they're easy to kill.
samus on the other hand, is heavy. there are things that balance everything out, im 100% positive that samus will be great.

 

[Hapajin]

I actually think her Charge shot does look better in Smash 4 than it did in Brawl, but I can't tell yet if its as good as the Melee charge shot.

But I agree, the missile nerf is really discouraging, and I wish Samus was better represented as a projectile user. I'm glad she got some much needed close-range combat boosts, but I feel like she should be one of the most projectile-efficient characters, and instead it appears many other characters are outshining her in that area.

HOWEVER I am still hopeful that she may get some better ranged options with the custom movesets. I see a lot of potential for Samus with Custom movesets, and I can't wait to see how her ranged options will vary. Now there is the possibility that the other custom options are terrible and worse than her current moveset, which would be a real tragedy. but I'm deciding to withhold judgement on her ranged viability until we know more about her custom moveset options.

 

[Yugimoto-D]

I wish Samus had Mii Gunner's down smash (shooting to both sides) or make her Up Smash shoot into the air. >:

I've always felt her moveset is not a good representation of her character but I thought that it was okay because no character had ranged attacks not tied to their specials. (Until I saw that MegaMan, Mii Gunner and Villager have ranged attacks for aerials and smash attacks. >_>)

I hope she is more viable than Brawl. At least she has some more KO potential.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Projectiles are being nerfed across the board. It might be a slight misrepresentation, but that's less of a priority than giving her healthy and unfrustrating play patterns. Her projectiles are still useful even if they're not the strongest aspect of her moveset.

 

[SmashWolf]

Projectiles are being nerfed across the board. It might be a slight misrepresentation, but that's less of a priority than giving her healthy and unfrustrating play patterns. Her projectiles are still useful even if they're not the strongest aspect of her moveset.

That is very true, but if all projectiles are worse,(and they never were that great in the first place) how can Samus be a viable character now? Her entire playstyle requires her projectiles for mindgames, devastating punishes, and approaching. Playing Samus without (good)projectiles would be like eating dry bread. And it's still a little grating how she gets completely outdone by others character's projectiles.

I actually think her Charge shot does look better in Smash 4 than it did in Brawl, but I can't tell yet if its as good as the Melee charge shot.

Sakurai said it would be both faster to charge AND be more powerfull, but I didn't see much of a power difference just yet in footage. Also, it also seems Samus again can't charge it in midair. It might just be me, but in gameplay footage her charge beam's hitbox seemed a lot smaller than usual. But I'll be happy to provide Sakurai's miiverse post.

The Speed and Power of Samus’s Charge Shot has been drastically improved. However, that could potentially put her in danger in occasion.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

That is very true, but if all projectiles are worse,(and they never were that great in the first place) how can Samus be a viable character now? Her entire playstyle requires her projectiles for mindgames, devastating punishes, and approaching. Playing Samus without (good)projectiles would be like eating dry bread. And it's still a little grating how she gets completely outdone by others character's projectiles.

The general consensus is that her close-combat game has been buffed considerably. Her missiles will help her with approaches and stopping enemy approaches while building up damage, her charge shot acts - as it always has - as a surprise KO move and her A moves are more powerful than ever. I'm very optimistic about her in Smash 4.

 

[Hapajin]

Sakurai said it would be both faster to charge AND be more powerfull, but I didn't see much of a power difference just yet in footage. Also, it also seems Samus again can't charge it in midair. It might just be me, but in gameplay footage her charge beam's hitbox seemed a lot smaller than usual. But I'll be happy to provide Sakurai's miiverse post.

If you look at the charge shot in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLqgyC3Nhyw&list=UUkvbflAF8OIaYN4ZzeTCgLA(2:58 and 3:19) , it already looks a lot faster than Brawl's charge shot, which is just pitiful, so I'm kind of hopeful for charge shot still. However, like I said earlier, if there are other good neutral B special options in Samus' custom there's a good chance I'll use that instead.

The general consensus is that her close-combat game has been buffed considerably. Her missiles will help her with approaches and stopping enemy approaches while building up damage, her charge shot acts - as it always has - as a surprise KO move and her A moves are more powerful than ever. I'm very optimistic about her in Smash 4.

While I agree with the consensus that her close-combat abilities have been buffed since Brawl, I don't think that's saying much, considering that
1. Samus' close-combat abilities from Brawl were pretty terrible. So really any changes to her CQC combat options would've been a buff.
2. Most of the rest of the character roster appears to have a stronger close-range combat game than Samus. Even if her CQC abilities were buffed from Brawl, that doesn't mean she has a good competitive edge against other characters who are much more centered around close-combat. Lots of other characters received buffs too, but now Samus lost crucial range options that made her more diverse.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still really excited for Samus in Smash 4. Just for different reasons. For example, I think her custom moveset options have SO much potential. Of course they could be terrible, which would be a real shame, but I am still optimistic! However, I would find it discouraging if she just became another close-up brawler which would be both out of character and ineffective in a competitive sense.

 

[Empyrean]

Even without missiles, I agree that Samus still has potential to be at the very least good in this game. Assuming lagless zairs stay the same, she might have one of the best approaches in the game. She's also blessed with an OoS option with a lot of knockback and all her moves have been sped up. She's obviously nowhere near the strongest like Sakurai stated her to be (I still am baffled about this, lol), but she still has some good options, just not as a projectile specialist.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I don't think projectiles will be quite as useless as everyone else seems to believe. Sure, they may be slower and more limited, but airdodges also have more lag, and shields seem to take more damage and regenerate slower. Projectiles, especially stronger ones like Samus', could prove useful in terms of whittling away opponent shields and opening up shield poke opportunities, and Samus can poke all day with her Z-air.

 

[IsmaR]

Having played the game, I can tell you she's still much more of a specialist than people are making her out to not be. Half of my kills were from Charge Shots, while missiles still seemed effective when combined with full hop/Z-air rather than trying to missile cancel. Bombs are as questionable as ever, though I can't really say I didn't use them a lot considering FFAs.

I wouldn't worry about Mii's considering they're Mii's, but Mega Man was obviously going to be as/much more projectile-reliant. Technically Rosalina and WFT, as well. It's still too early to say, but I think Palutena and Robin will also be big contenders for best ranged specialist (adding on to Samus/both Link/characters reliant on a single projectile). I think it's cool that Samus prefers getting up close and personal, since that's how I always preferred playing as her (to stupid success).

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Bombs might end up once again being relegated to recovery-only, as they were in Brawl; them not exploding on contact is a poor design choice in my opinion, as it renders their offensive application basically non-existent.

 

[IsmaR]

I'm almost convinced they did that so they could leave classic/proximity bombs as a Custom Move Swap choice.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I'm almost convinced they did that so they could leave classic/proximity bombs as a Custom Move Swap choice.

That is true. I'd be fine with it if that were the case. I'm really hoping for power bombs (stripped down somewhat) to be a custom move of hers as well.

 

[<π]

On paper right now it doesn't look too good, but we will have to wait and see. It is going to depend on a lot of things. I was a samus main in brawl and I stopped using her because I felt like her projectile game got so much less powerful. (Charge beam was a joke, and missles did nothing! And please don't get me started on bombs...)

once we hit the lab we made find out short hop homing missle cancels and is a unbeatable approach option. or full hop homing zair to fsmash breaks sheilds! we've gotta wait and see.

Missles will likely still control space and bet a very real and meaning ful threat to people who HAVE to land. and charge beam is likely going to be a threat again, just the threat of having a long range kill option when ever your opponent messes up or just guesses wrong is SUCH a huge advantage in the head space alone.

I'm actually all for no more land canceling projectiles if that means I don't hav eto deal with falco short lazer hop anymore.

 

[RPK]

Samus not being a ranged specialist...Thats so dumb that people thing her ranged game got nerfed.
zair zair zair zair zair zair zair zair zair zair zair zair zair zair zair zair zair zair
Full jump homing missile -> zair
Full jump double zair

This iteration of Samus is going to be more like Brawl Samus, but that isnt a bad thing. Her missiles wont be controlling the space like in melee, but zair. I was incredibly pleased when I played the new Samus in smash 4. She was a lot like her brawl counterpart, but everything got a buff. Especially her Zair. Her Zair now does more damage, can be combo'd off of, and feels just as long, if not longer in this iteration of the game. In addition to that, just like in brawl, besides being a great zoning tool that can easily get people into the high percents without ANY trouble, ITS LAGLESS!! NO LAG! NONE! ZIP NADA!!! And it can also be performed out of an AIRDODGE!! Why is that a big deal?? Just think about that for a split second why that makes her Zair so incredibly powerful. Also with the addition of hitstun, when I played the game, I was able to get Zair->Dash Attack->Up+B combo multiple times during the match that I played. And if people start fearing the up+B and airdodge, it makes them an easy target for a short hopped dair. Also as dirty as it is with the range that it has, the game doesnt count Zair as a projectile.

In addition to that, her charge shot getting buffed, and the inclusion of pivoting makes charge shot incredibly good in this one as she was one of the few characters unable to do this in brawl...Thats going to be a big thing to play around with now. Or even using an uncharged shot was also a great way to use her in brawl. It was a decent size, and wasnt the fast moving which meant its great for space control. This combined with slow moving homing missiles, zair, and on top of that, a giant nerf to air dodging would make taking to the air against samus really really really really bad. Also with the addition of pivoting she can run away to make space, charge, and will be completely safe because it can still be canceled into a shield. Which also means she can jump out of her charge shot and zair, or if theyre stupid enough to touch your shield at a high percent...Screw Attack :V

Even though her missiles did get nerfed by not being cancelable, with the addition of easy pivoting, missiles are still one of the best projectiles to throw on the ground imo. With the ability to move backwards from a dash, and then fire a grounded missile will be a great asset. In addition to that, it will be great catching people landing on the ground since most people wont be able to avoid it coming from the air. Though I do wonder if it can be edge canceled...But we'll have to wait and see for that one.

Also I do agree that bombs were pretty useless, but theyre actually still going to come in handy. Especially with the new ledge rules. And that its easy for samus to refresh her ledge grab if you ledge jump, bomb, regrab. Because you were on stage, your stuff just got refreshed :V Other than that, like you guys said, its going to still be used mainly as recovery, but whatevs.

You guys might say it doesnt look good on paper, but it does and it works. I got lucky and had a best buy near my place, and after playing it its so easy to see. Her projectile game in Smash 4 is definitely strong if not, just as strong as her brawl counterpart. Thats saying a lot considering she loved projectiles in Brawl. Charge Shot getting buffed, easy pivoting for an even more obnoxious ranged/keep away game, zair getting buffed for more damage, and more stun. On top of that she finally has kill moves now with one of them of course being screw attack :'D

She's going to be absolutely amazing and her projectile game is going to be just as amazing if not more so than it ever has been.

 

[meleebrawler]

I feel that Other M did an important thing:

It showed us that Samus is better at close combat than Megaman.

 

[Storm Eagle]

I wish Samus had Mii Gunner's down smash (shooting to both sides) or make her Up Smash shoot into the air. >:

I've always felt her moveset is not a good representation of her character but I thought that it was okay because no character had ranged attacks not tied to their specials. (Until I saw that MegaMan, Mii Gunner and Villager have ranged attacks for aerials and smash attacks. >_>)

I hope she is more viable than Brawl. At least she has some more KO potential.

I just wanted to say that I love your avatar! You know what's up!

 

[RPK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st5uGy37Jbw&index=25&list=UUhQVJzSKe5VfyT-SIMu9Qhg

So, my post was about her normal moveset. HER CUSTOM MOVE SET THO!!!! AHHHHH!!! Those slow moving missiles are so godlike, and that custom moveset in general tho

 

[pinkdeaf1]

Samus is still a projectile specialist. Her missiles are actually very spammable, and charge shot is self-explanatory. Though, now Samus isn't restricted to projectiles as her main tools! She can still kick butt without her projectiles rather easily.

 

[SmashWolf]

Samus is still a projectile specialist. Her missiles are actually very spammable, and charge shot is self-explanatory. Though, now Samus isn't restricted to projectiles as her main tools! She can still kick butt without her projectiles rather easily.

Okay, so now I've had my own chance to try this out, I can officially debunk Samus as projectile specialist. Not only are her Super Missiles slow, lack missile canceling, and have a worthless knockback trajectory, but there's even more bad news. You can only have 1 Super Missile out on the field at once. You try having any more, Samus just pretends to shoot a Super Missile but doesn't. Who's idea was this?!

Her charge shot can't be charged in midair either, but when it finally does fire, it's relatively powerfull. So at least that's something.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Just use customs.

The relentless missile seems so much better than the normal missile that there's literally no reason to not use that (or the other custom) over it. You can only have 3 missiles out at a time: 2 Homing, 1 Super

That said, Super missiles with Relentless custom allow you to shoot one from near full screen and walk behind it as an approach/mixup tool. Fire a homing missile start an offense. If you get hit or whiff your punish, the missile will cover you and combo break your opponent.

The only reason I'm putting a serious amount of stock in Samus is that she has ridiculous approach with those missiles, she has a bomb that guarantees an FSmash on hit, and her Shine Spark Up B kills mid weights around 70~80%.

 

[n00b]

That may be true, but it doesn't help to "just use custom moves" when most rulesets (that I've seen, like ktar and For Glory) deem them illegal.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

That may be true, but it doesn't help to "just use custom moves" when most rulesets (that I've seen, like ktar and For Glory) deem them illegal.

I was at KTAR. They were legal.

 

[n00b]

my mistake… i should look into unlocking those after all then :x