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Is Sakurai being biased on some franchises?

Raijinken

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I'm going to be biased and a bit blunt and say "Kirby gets old references because the older games were significantly better."

As for others, while I'm as sick as the next player of Mario and Pokemon characters being added, it makes sense. I just wish we'd finally get a second F-Zero character, and someone besides Samus from Metroid.
 

D-idara

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I think Mario deserves it because of sales, and I think Fire Emblem deserved some bias because of Awakening. I....didn't really like Kid Icarus: Uprising, the actual game and the story were great, but....the controls....augh, if they make a sequel it must have analog control, I can't STAND the stylus controls, that might just be my personal preference, but the KI bias did rub the wrong way, at first.

However, at the end of it, I don't really think bias is the way to go for a game like Smash, some people like their franchises better than others, and I feel bad for Zelda and DK fans, but I can live with it myself.
Uh, no? The touch controls were easily one of the best parts of the game, and like you said, Awakening was an amazing game.

Also, implying the Mario series doesn't deserve it because of unending quality.
 

CRASHiC

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I think it's hilarious kids these days think Donkey Kong is a very small series when it's worst selling game is still a higher selling game than the best selling Kid Icarus or Fire Emblem game. Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem are the very small, niche series in Smash Bros., just because hipsters and waifu/hasubando freaks think they are popular, they are not
VG Charts is not an accurate website. Do not source VG Charts. Even Wikipedia does not allow CG Chats.
Fire Emblem is bigger than it has ever been. Its most recent entry ranks among one of the highest 3DS games.
Please go back to 4chan
 

KaZe_DaRKWIND

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Fire Emblem doesn't deserve more than two characters, three is the max. What makes you think it "deserves" three? There is no reason it should have four fighters
I generally don't count clones in these arguments because they're just copy pasta with a couple altered moves.
I'm going to be biased and a bit blunt and say "Kirby gets old references because the older games were significantly better."

As for others, while I'm as sick as the next player of Mario and Pokemon characters being added, it makes sense. I just wish we'd finally get a second F-Zero character, and someone besides Samus from Metroid.
I played triple deluxe and I agree. The stuff with Hypernova was cool but it doesn't even come close to all the abilities in the crystal shards.

I also agree that I wish they'd add more to the series with less than 5 characters in the game.
 
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LancerStaff

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I think Mario deserves it because of sales, and I think Fire Emblem deserved some bias because of Awakening. I....didn't really like Kid Icarus: Uprising, the actual game and the story were great, but....the controls....augh, if they make a sequel it must have analog control, I can't STAND the stylus controls, that might just be my personal preference, but the KI bias did rub the wrong way, at first.

However, at the end of it, I don't really think bias is the way to go for a game like Smash, some people like their franchises better than others, and I feel bad for Zelda and DK fans, but I can live with it myself.
Asking for analog controls in KIU is like asking for analog controls in Skyward Sword: It'll work, but barely.
 

Champ Gold

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Bias for his stuff has been expected. We seen in Melee when Kirby had 3 stages(despite Kirby being godawful) vs Zelda(a relative large series at the time) who had only 2.

Brawl with Kirby/DeDeDe/Meta Knight getting large focus in SSE, Meta Knight's balance in general(although Sakurai had little control since the balance team had much worst bias than him for MK).

Smash 4 was obvious that Kid Icarus would get it as well. Problem was that most of stuff was only items, Smash Run enemies(which seems irrelevant since every franchise sans FE got enemies there. Then there's Mr. Pitto himself who went from a costume to a full fledged clone character which only happen because Sakurai needed to pad the roster. He's the main reason why people are so pissed since he's giving franchises unneeded reps.


Here's my issue and why everyone's complaining about roster, AT and stage representation with other franchises like DK, Metroid and Mother(although that franchise is MUCH smaller than KI and FE and has ended), WE HAVEN'T SEEN EVERYTHING YET.

Remember the 3DS version doesn't everything have what the Wii U version will have.

Wii U will trump 3DS in stages, content and possibly ATs and even characters in the future. Heck, maybe all the 3DS stages will receive a HD update and be DLC to the regular Wii U roster.

Now for a franchise that has been screwed over longer than this was Zelda and that makes me believe that Sakurai hates Zelda
 

LancerStaff

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Bias for his stuff has been expected. We seen in Melee when Kirby had 3 stages(despite Kirby being godawful) vs Zelda(a relative large series at the time) who had only 2.

Brawl with Kirby/DeDeDe/Meta Knight getting large focus in SSE, Meta Knight's balance in general(although Sakurai had little control since the balance team had much worst bias than him for MK).

Smash 4 was obvious that Kid Icarus would get it as well. Problem was that most of stuff was only items, Smash Run enemies(which seems irrelevant since every franchise sans FE got enemies there. Then there's Mr. Pitto himself who went from a costume to a full fledged clone character which only happen because Sakurai needed to pad the roster. He's the main reason why people are so pissed since he's giving franchises unneeded reps.


Here's my issue and why everyone's complaining about roster, AT and stage representation with other franchises like DK, Metroid and Mother(although that franchise is MUCH smaller than KI and FE and has ended), WE HAVEN'T SEEN EVERYTHING YET.

Remember the 3DS version doesn't everything have what the Wii U version will have.

Wii U will trump 3DS in stages, content and possibly ATs and even characters in the future. Heck, maybe all the 3DS stages will receive a HD update and be DLC to the regular Wii U roster.

Now for a franchise that has been screwed over longer than this was Zelda and that makes me believe that Sakurai hates Zelda
Same roster between games.
 

Erimir

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VG Charts is not an accurate website. Do not source VG Charts. Even Wikipedia does not allow CG Chats.
Fire Emblem is bigger than it has ever been. Its most recent entry ranks among one of the highest 3DS games.
Please go back to 4chan
It's accurate enough. It says FE Awakening has 1.3 million in sales.

Nintendo's website does not list Awakening among the 3DS "top selling software sales units", meaning it has less than 1.85 million in sales: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/3ds.html

Donkey Kong Country Returns port to 3DS sold more than 1.4 million copies: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2014/140130e.pdf

And DKCR on Wii sold several million copies, hitting ~5 million copies back in 2011: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2011/110426e.pdf#page=5

So... now that there are references that aren't from VG Chartz* that say the same thing anyway... What do you say about the point instead of just criticizing the source?

Awakening sold well, of course, and I'm not denying that. But where this notion came from that Fire Emblem is now one of Nintendo's top top sellers, I don't know.

*Personally, I don't know where all the hate for that site comes from. Whenever I've cross referenced its numbers to other sources like official Nintendo reports, they've come out fine, while sites like Wikipedia often have out-of-date numbers that are thus less accurate. There is an argument against using publicly available sales data in general, in that Nintendo doesn't release eShop/VC sales numbers, so we don't know how lucrative digital-only and classic games from different series are. For example, we know that Earthbound has sold well on the eShop relative to other eShop titles... but we don't know how that compares to retail sales.
 
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HipsandChips

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I think it's hilarious that people complain about Donkey Kong. It's cool and all but in reality it's a very small series, and a spin-off at that.
DKCR and DKCR3D sold much more than FE: A, and KI:U,...
Edit super ninjad
 
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Champ Gold

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It's accurate enough. It says FE Awakening has 1.3 million in sales.

Nintendo's website does not list Awakening among the 3DS "top selling software sales units", meaning it has less than 1.85 million in sales: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/3ds.html

Donkey Kong Country Returns port to 3DS sold more than 1.4 million copies: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2014/140130e.pdf

And DKCR on Wii sold several million copies, hitting ~5 million copies back in 2011: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2011/110426e.pdf#page=5

So... now that there are references that aren't from VG Chartz* that say the same thing anyway... What do you say about the point instead of just criticizing the source?

Awakening sold well, of course, and I'm not denying that. But where this notion came from that Fire Emblem is now one of Nintendo's top top sellers, I don't know.

*Personally, I don't know where all the hate for that site comes from. Whenever I've cross referenced its numbers to other sources like official Nintendo reports, they've come out fine, while sites like Wikipedia often have out-of-date numbers that are thus less accurate. There is an argument against using publicly available sales data in general, in that Nintendo doesn't release eShop/VC sales numbers, so we don't know how lucrative digital-only and classic games from different series are. For example, we know that Earthbound has sold well on the eShop relative to other eShop titles... but we don't know how that compares to retail sales.
Mostly because majority of the information is backwards and is old. Punch Out Wii said to have sold less than Xenoblade when in retrospect Punch Out outsold Xenoblade and became a Nintendo Select Game
 

SuperNintendoDisney

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VG Charts is not an accurate website. Do not source VG Charts. Even Wikipedia does not allow CG Chats.
Fire Emblem is bigger than it has ever been. Its most recent entry ranks among one of the highest 3DS games.
Please go back to 4chan
When did I source VG Chartz?

Please go back to 4chan

Fire Emblem is "bigger than its ever been"? It was on the verge of being discontinued, it took almost two years for Awakening to even get localized in America. If "bigger than its ever been" is supposed to mean "finally selling a decent amount of units", I guess its "bigger than its ever been"

Please go back to 4chan

Ranks as one of the highest 3DS games? No, sorry, wrong. Above 3 millions units would be one of the highest 3DS games

Please go back to 4chan

While VG Chartz isn't 100% accurate, it gives a ballpark estimate, it isn't like these people are pulling numbers out of their ***. Do the math, With only three games, Star Fox sold more than the entire Fire Emblem Series combined. Since you think Wikipedia is so reliable and the gospel of best selling video game franchises, why not take a look?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

Star Fox is listed with 11.5 million units sold, with most of the sales coming from just two games. Fire Emblem, not even worth a mention on this almighty list

Please go back to 4chan

Does the truth hurt? That your waifu/hasubando characters come from niche, much less popular series? From the looks of your avatar (a typical anime/waifu/cartoon image of some character), it appears like you are the person who came from 4chan just to tell me how popular Fire Emblem: Waifu Hasubando Edition is

Please go back to 4chan

How can any of these series be more popular than Donkey Kong when something such as the completely new Kid Icarus: Uprising didn't sell much more than the three year old port Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D, as another poster already pointed out?

Please go back to 4chan

Of course, I will be the one to get scolded for being to mean to you, even though you cast the first stone with your snide remark to being with, but anyway

Please go back to 4chan
 
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Stupid Yoshii

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He most definitely is bias with Kid Icarus I mean Palutena got a filly animated trailer with voice acting and everything and im expecting Dark Pit to have a high production value trailer also
 

CRASHiC

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It's accurate enough
*Personally, I don't know where all the hate for that site comes from.
It is not accurate enough. It has shown large discrepancies and doesn't cite its sources. It has one had a 3 MILLION unit duscrepency that was confirmed by Sony. VGCharts is an absolutely useless website and I really don't know why I bother posting on this site anymore.
 

StarLight42

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Asking for analog controls in KIU is like asking for analog controls in Skyward Sword: It'll work, but barely.
This is for another discussion, but how do you know? You've never played KIU with analog control.

Uh, no? The touch controls were easily one of the best parts of the game, and like you said, Awakening was an amazing game.

Also, implying the Mario series doesn't deserve it because of unending quality.
In my opinion, it wasn't one of the best parts of the game, and I know a lot of reviews that agree with that, so let's just agree to disagree.

Also what? I never said the Mario series doesn't deserve bias, in fact, I think it deserves bias, it's my favorite Nintendo series.
 
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moneyfrenzy

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Its clear that he is bias not only towards kid Icarus, but Kid icarus uprising in general.

I honestly don't care that it was "a great game." You know what else was a great game? Metroid Prime. Oh and prime 2 and 3.

Where is Dark Samus? A palette swap? Okay thats fine that it is a pallete swap, i mean no other "evil" forms of characters are full on characters, O wait!! A character that appears as a supporting character in one game gets in before the main villian of two games?

At least we get Ridley with his twelve unique specials

And don't even get me started on DK... I could go on for days about how the 4th biggest franchise is getting less content than almost anything in the game
 

SwagzillaForilla

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I just realized that, so far, the only DK content revealed in the game is 2 Smash Run enemies. No new characters, stages, assist trophies or items... just the bare minimum of Smash Run enemies.

Talk about unfair.
 

Sobreviviente

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Dark Pit is very popular in japan, just saying :p
Now, I'm not saying there's no representation. We see Ultra Sword Kirby as a Final Smash, as well as (supposedly) a Galacta Knight costume for Meta Knight. And yet, we haven't seen a stage for the games like Squeak Squad, Canvas Curse or Mass Attack. "But those aren't iconic locations in Kirby's universe!", you might say.

Hyrule Temple? Rainbow Cruise? Rumble Falls? Pac-Land? They made 'em work. So, what does Sakurai do for the Kirby stage? Dream Land. on a Game Boy.

While I like the classic things, I feel a lot of the newer stuff has been ignored. We still haven't seen anything from Epic Yarn, Masked Dedede is nowhere to be found, and still no sign of characters like Magolor, Bandana Dee, etc.
Hyrule Temple was just the retro side of zelda being represented (2-d sidescrolling plattaform action part of zelda), we also got great bay from its last entry back in the day, and is pretty much just a veteran stage now.
Rainbow Cruise is pretty damn iconic, actually, mainly because is a mixture of many iconic mario things to begin with...

Pac-land same as great temple, rumble falls same as rainbow cruise, so, is confirmed that the gameboy stage is kirby only? good to know :B

I would say that he is indeed biased but we got music from both squeake squad and K64 last time, also as you said "We still haven't seen anything from Epic Yarn", so is early to tell man.
 

Erimir

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It is not accurate enough. It has shown large discrepancies and doesn't cite its sources. It has one had a 3 MILLION unit duscrepency that was confirmed by Sony. VGCharts is an absolutely useless website
So, a long while back I compiled sales figures for every franchise in Smash and all the other Nintendo franchises with several games or large sales. And I heard all this back then. So I checked over the numbers with other sources, and like I said... they were pretty much where they should've been in every case. Yeah, VGChartz sometimes had higher numbers but since the numbers I found elsewhere were always at least a couple months out of date the discrepancies were what you'd expect. There is missing data for some of the Nintendo games (and it has no digital sales data, as I said), but I couldn't find any sources that showed they were wrong to any significant degree on the series I looked at. And where the data was missing, I generally couldn't find it anywhere else either.

So in any case, what are the discrepancies with regards to Donkey Kong, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, Star Fox or any of the series under discussion? Can you tell me how wrong they are? Is the bias systematic or just sporadic? Just because they have occasional errors doesn't mean that the comparison between Awakening and DKC Returns is wrong, or even likely to be wrong (and, as I pointed, in this case it isn't wrong! As can be verified by looking at Nintendo's own sales reports). I don't think "absolutely useless" means what you seem to think it means. Perhaps you meant "take it with a grain of salt"?

In any case, it's irrelevant since you don't need VGChartz to know that Fire Emblem's sales are puny compared to Donkey Kong's. Is nitpicking about that all you want to say, or do you actually have a point?
and I really don't know why I bother posting on this site anymore.
:rolleyes:

Go cry about it. And then come back with a point that actually justifies such a superior attitude.
 
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LancerStaff

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This is for another discussion, but how do you know? You've never played KIU with analog control.
Did you know KIU's timer stops at 999 hours? How do I know this? Personal experience. And I also have a month's worth of experience in using ABXY for moving and the pad for aiming after losing a stylus. You can even play with the d-pad and CPP if you really wanted to. It doesn't really matter either way to me, since it just doesn't work. Obviously, the biggest problem was aiming, even with high-homing weapons. Eyetrack Stinkin' Orbitars couldn't even make it work.
 

Xsyven

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Sakurai did okay in previous games, but this time around, he's totally tooting his own horn. There is WAY too much Kid Icarus representation.
 

Morbi

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Everyone is inherently biased and it will influence their decisions and/or perspectives to a certain extent. Sakurai's bias is more overt; however, I would not assert that it is negative. If he was not in charge, someone else with different innate biases would saturate the game with something else.
 

Enderman1021

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in my opinion here is a list of how many reps each series should get
mario: 7
pokemon: 6
legend of zelda: 6
donkey kong: 4
star fox: 4
kirby: 4
metroid: 3 or 4
fire emblem: 2 or 3
kid icarus: 2
mother: 2
f-zero: 2
wario: 1
yoshi's island: 1
ice climber: 1
pikmin: 1

then there is also extra series like wii fit, punch out, retro, and etc. that only need one

also no more third parties, 3 is enough
 

Starcutter

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Everyone is inherently biased and it will influence their decisions and/or perspectives to a certain extent. Sakurai's bias is more overt; however, I would not assert that it is negative. If he was not in charge, someone else with different innate biases would saturate the game with something else.
If I was directing the game I'd be biased towards DK and Yoshi.


Back on topic, yeah, Sakurai is pretty biased. Not so much Kirby, but holy crap kid Icarus.
 

IceAnt573

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Honestly, the reason why I believe Fire Emblem has as many characters as it does is because characters drive the franchise and Smash should reflect that. Fire Emblem's representation besides 4 playable characters is two stages and one assist trophy who guess what? Is a main lord of her game. Where are the Fire Emblem items? Where are the Fire Emblem enemies in Smash Run? If Fire Emblem can't get any representation in those areas, then it might as well be through playable characters.
 
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ChikoLad

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Asking for analog controls in KIU is like asking for analog controls in Skyward Sword: It'll work, but barely.
I don't understand this comparison. My brother actually plays Skyward Sword on a particular version of Dolphin emulator with an Xbox 360 controller. He maps the sword controls to the right stick. It's literally the exact same as using the HF Blade in MGS2, and works just fine. He's played the game for a good few hours.

If you mean KI:U wouldn't work with analog control with the 3DS's layout, I would agree, but take any modern console controller and it could work just fine. You'd just have to make some adjustments, like adding a quick turn around button to replace spinning the camera 180 on the touch screen.
 

Frostwraith

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Everyone is biased. That isn't news.

And the whole idea should the number of characters from each series be proportional to sales/popularity/whatever is just a fan-made concept with no foundation in reality whatsoever.

Think about it: people want Donkey Kong and Metroid stuff because those are series they like. I can't blame them for wanting stuff from games they like.

This coming from someone who's played Kid Icarus: Uprising and likes the Fire Emblem series.

And I don't feel like the FE and KI series got 4 and 3 characters, considering Lucina and Dark Pit are just last minute additions and were going to be alts like Alph. They're extra additions the development team managed to sneak in because they were low cost and not as time consuming.
 
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D-idara

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People salty about sales...we've reached some low points. Look, I'm a Ridley and K.Rool supporter, a huge one...

But IF they don't make it in, you'll see me complaining alright, but I won't be directing my complaints at another game series that has brought me lots of fun and great times.

You sound like children complaining about how the other children's toys are better...

Or a better analogy, it's like complaining about an Olympic Athlete who hasn't participated in anything in 25 years, then comes back and wins all the medals...oh 'BUT HE DOESN'T DESERVE IT BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE WON MEDALS WHILE HE WAS GONE'.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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He's probably being biased

He's not a machine
 

Baskerville

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Yes.
It makes no sense how Sakurai is perfectly fine with making Alph becomes an alt costume for Olimar and not for someone like Dark Pit, who is really just black recolour in terms of appearance. That, and after how successful Returns was, the DK series still hasn't gotten anything new in terms of new characters, stages, items or even assist trophies.
 

Cap'nChreest

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I think the people that say he isn't being biased say that because the word biased has a negative connotation.

I'm personally fine with him being biased towards Kid Icarus. I love that game.

He definitely favors putting in more Kid Icarus things. He's even been stated as saying that he made the Uprising items with the intention of putting them in smash bros. I really don't get how he isn't being biased.
 

cmbsfm

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I hope he works on the next DK game or Metroid game..
 

topspin1617

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I just need to say this...

I think we'd all be a lot more pleased with the roster if we try to stop thinking of it in terms of which series "deserves" more reps than another, coming up with arbitrary numbers of reps that each series "should" have, etc. Now, this is coming from someone who lists Ridley and King K. Rool as two of his most wanted newcomers. I'd definitely be disappointed at their exclusion. At the same time, the current roster is fantastic, and I'm certainly not going to blame either of those characters' exclusion on something like Dark Pit.

I really don't think "bias" is the correct word. As for items and Smash Run enemies, it is true that Uprising received more content "than it should". At the same time, none of that content is forced. In my opinion, none of it looks like something that shouldn't be in Smash, but Sakurai shoehorned it in anyway. Around here, we seem to like to count things; playable characters, items, ATs, Smash Run enemies... and then enrage ourselves over these numbers. I think that's completely backwards. Instead of setting down an arbitrary number and saying "_____ series CANNOT exceed this many Smash Run enemies", I believe Sakurai is only trying to make the game as engaging as possible, and his experience with Uprising produced many things that just fit in Smash. He's even said that he was thinking of Smash while making Uprising. My final point on items and Smash Run enemies is that many people won't even deal with them due to disabling items and not playing Smash Run extensively, but when we DO use items or that mode, no sane person is going to be concentrating more on which series each item/enemy is from as opposed to just enjoying the game. It's really, truly not a big deal.

Playable characters are a bigger deal, but people are still getting themselves worked up too much. It seems that the mere existence of Dark Pit on the roster has triggered many to obsess over the fact that "Kid Icarus has 3 characters and DK and Metroid don't". But there are many issues with that statement, the largest being, in my opinion, that Dark Pit is likely a clone. The most likely reason for his inclusion is the most likely reason for Lucina and Dr. Mario: they were supposed to be alts that were promoted to playable characters, either due to small gameplay differences or to pad the roster. As much as I want Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo, Isaac, I'm not foolish enough to think all or any of them would be in but for the existence of Dark Pit. I just don't think that's realistic.

Finally, I'd like to address the "better choices for clones" argument. If we honestly step back and consider the entirety of the process, I have to say that Dark Pit is probably one of the "best" choices for a clone Sakurai could have made. Let's start by listing Nintendo characters that are similar enough in body structure to a current member of the roster to feasibly be made into an alt/clone, and who are also characters one could at least envision in Smash:

Dr. Mario
Dark Pit
Lucina
Dixie Kong
Dark Samus
Daisy
Shadow Link
Toon Zelda
Impa
Lucas
Wolf

There are probably more, but I think the above list is pretty good. Now, let's think a little deeper. Which of the above characters could actually be a clone in Smash while still respecting the character's source material? In my opinion, this narrows the list to

Dr. Mario
Dark Pit
Lucina
Shadow Link
Toon Zelda

Dixie Kong being a clone of Diddy just wouldn't sit right in my opinion; the amount of changes from Diddy needed to respect her abilities would exceed the changes made to Wolf from Fox. Dark Samus canonically shares basically no abilities with Samus. Further, Smash already has two Samuses; even though Dark Samus is a completely different entity, I think this would be a fact lost on non-Metroid fans who would see only that there are three characters on the roster with "Samus" in their name. Is this a good reason to not be included? Not entirely, but if we were discussing it in the context of Dark Samus being a clone of Samus, I think it would in fact be a deal breaker. Daisy playing like Peach would make absolutely zero sense to me, as Peach's moveset draws heavy inspiration from multiple appearances and unique abilities... floating, turnips, Toad meat shield, none of that would make sense. As for Impa, as often as we see people say she could replace Sheik or be a clone of Sheik, I just don't see it. I feel like that line of thought has more to do with wanting a Zelda newcomer and looking to Impa as one of the few important recurring characters outside of the Triforce holders in the Zelda series. I just don't get the feeling that Impa as a clone of Sheik would be well-received, especially given the recent uniqueness given to Impa in Hyrule Warriors (which, yes, is a (non-canon?) spin-off, but I still think that being a clone of Sheik in Smash would be entirely underwhelming given that iteration of Impa). Lucas and Wolf, finally, probably could work as clones of Ness and Fox respectively. Their issue, ironically enough, is being fairly unique vets from Brawl. People would be outraged, I believe, if Lucas and Wolf were actually made clone-ier for Smash 4 just for the sake of getting them on the roster. I could definitely see them being cut for this reason; if neither were in Brawl, I think very few people would scoff at the idea of Mother and StarFox "only" having 1 and 2 reps, respectively. I think Sakurai may have taken this into account when deciding the roster; that Ness and Fox/Falco represent their series very well already, and Lucas and Wolf aren't really... necessary, I guess. They're unique enough to take more work than a normal clone to implement, but at the same time taking their uniqueness away just wouldn't feel right.

Now to finish narrowing the list. Shadow Link is unnecessary. For the most part, Shadow Link has been an entity totally unimportant to the story of Zelda, and serves as a random boss. He also has the same issue as Dark Samus, being that we have two Links on the roster already, and a third is just too much (I see it as the same issue of the 3 Landmasters from Brawl, but on a larger scale since we're talking about entire characters). Toon Zelda is workable I suppose, but with the potential for transforming into something like Tetra gone (with the mechanic removed from Smash 4), I don't feel that she has much going for her. Not to mention that I think Toon Link is already pushing it, and to have TWO toonified clones from the same series would be somewhat irritating.

Now let's look at Dark Pit. He's a mirror of Pit who possesses the same abilities as Pit, and so to see them fighting similarly is not weird at all. He's also completely his own character which, in my opinion, puts him above Mario-in-a-doctor's-outfit. Finally, he would be exceedingly easy to make starting from Pit, so he would require quite a small investment of resources. In fact, of the clones we look to be getting, Dr. Mario would get me upset LONG before Dark Pit would.

I think these are things we should all take into consideration before getting upset over "overrepresentation" of Kid Icarus, or (basically) equivalently, underrepresentation of franchises such as DK and Metroid. I'd be very happy to see both of those series receive more love... I just really, honestly don't feel that it was a situation where KI is the reason they're not receiving as much, where Sakurai sat down and decided "more KI, less DK". To close, yes, we can compare representation between series... but as I said above, I don't believe it's anywhere near as simple as just comparing sales data or popularity polls. Much more goes into the decision for content in Smash, and I think appreciating that fact can go a long way to appreciating Smash 4 for what it is.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
It is impossible to not be biased. When someone forms an opinion or makes choices based off what he wants, there is bias. When Sakurai choose his characters, bias played a major role.

Now keep in mind that bias isn't always a bad thing. It can be in certain cases (seriously, almost no new DK content?), but it can also be good (just look at how well done most of the newcomers are in comparison to previous games). Overall, bias will be bias and it doesn't have to carry a negative connotation; only when someone chooses to interpret it as such.

So anyone who claims that "we need an unbiased director" because of the roster choices have no idea what they're talking about because there is no such thing as an unbiased director. If Sakurai or someone else was over-representing DK instead of Kid Icarus, there would still be bias involved.
 

Dark Phazon

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
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London, England
I think it's hilarious kids these days think Donkey Kong is a very small series when it's worst selling game is still a higher selling game than the best selling Kid Icarus or Fire Emblem game. Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem are the very small, niche series in Smash Bros., just because hipsters and waifu/hasubando freaks think they are popular, they are not

Real Fact #1993: Star Fox is a more popular series than Kid Icarus
The RealTalk is strong in this one
 

ThatPersonGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Messages
45
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I really don't know.
Dark Pit had lots of chances for a unique moveset. Remember how everyone was going crazy over the staff visible in his picture on the leak?

That's not the point. Sakurai doesn't care AT ALL about source material (KI doesn't count since it's own source material was pretty much ripped from Smash to begin with, and Kirby is Kirby) to begin with, e.g. 3 games of Falcondorf, so it's not like Dark Pit was the perfect candidate either.
 
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