Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[Moozle]

I think Garchomp will move back to OU. Porygon2 destroys it so badly. Salamence will too probably. I sure as hell hope Deoxys A goes to ubers, I hate it so much.

I've made a successful Sunny Day team that doesn't rely on subseeding :D

 

[xxmoosexx]

So thats it?
Because Porygon2 will destroy Garchomp your going to assume he's coming back to OU?
Why salamence?

I've never dabbled in Sunny Day teams. They use (what i think is the worst typing) Grass type and hope for some reason they will get past that horrible typing for a sweep. But then Mence will come in on a grass attack and Dragon Dance and its game over.

 

[xxmoosexx]

I predict that this is going to be the metagame of OU.
IF these pokemon are banned: Salamence and Garchomp to Uber alongside the previous Uber pokemon
Then this is what its going to look like once Ninetales and Politoed is released by Nintendo.

1. Weather battles between Sandstorm,Rain,Sun. Sandstorm is predicted to be the best..then Rain...then Sun. Hail is just too bad lol.

2.Teams will be built to counter the weather teams IF there are any.

3. Counters to those teams will be made.

4.Weather is back in.

That sort of cycle will continue until something is banned. Just like Mence metagame. Everyone ran 1-2 dragon(s), 1 to 2 steel(s), a water, a ghost, and a lead.
THEN Magnezone went up and so did Jirachi. Because they could **** steels and waters and to an extent Salamence.
THEN Mence was banned which resulted in Shaymin coming back and GWF Cores emerged due to the fact that offense was harder to do without Mence.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I think people just needs the BALLS to set up and sweep with more fun stuff. that doesn't lose to itself. lol.

that or everybody will start using bulky boosters that can't be revenged by ditto.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Agiligross without EQ lol?

I dunno. I wish I was better at pokemon.

My most successful team was given to me by Zeal Elite that was made by Loki and it was an extreme stall team.

But the most successful team I've made oriented around Scizor-Kingdra-Rotom-Ttar.

I don't understand why people don't use ScarfTar more often. That thing is a beast and most importantly eats Ghosts and the super frail hyper offensive Starmies that you see everywhere now-a-days.

I'd like to dabble in MixNite. I want to use Gliscor. I want to use Zapdos.

I want to win with offensive teams.

Those are my interests in Pokemon right now.

 

[Gates]

i really wish i could go on serebii to see what landlos was....

Ground/Flying Legendary.

So those of you who played back when Garchomp was in OU what were the most effective ways of using him

idk about when he was legal in OU, but in Ubers his most effective set has always been Scarf. The extra 2 points of speed don't seem like **** but they make all the difference in revenge killing.

ScarfChomp is like CBScizor...you could run other sets, but what's the point.

Agiligross without EQ lol?

Balloon Agiligross might work.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Yeah but the point is to NOT get killed by a Ditto. And any priority move could remove that baloon and game over. Or while you setup you get hit.

AND if you have to use a sweeper that doesn't lose to itself then how do you beat the ditto that just transformed?

I have a good disucussion topic/question-
What sweepers can combat a transformed ditto AND can switch out to a wall that will cripple ditto.

Honestly...I've used ditto on PO and I've swept teams...ALOT. Actually right now im using;
Lead:Kerudio
Wall:Nattorei
Wallsupporter/Wall remover: Shadow Tag Shandera
RevengeKiller: Ditto
Core Cracker- Salamence- Dragon Dance, Fire Blast, Outrage, Earthquake
Late Game Sweeper- Focus Sash Garchomp

Most of the time I sweep with ditto. And it's not late game. Its more like I let them setup on my Nattorei and let them kill him after i setup leech seed. Then ditto comes in and wrecks everything.

What can stop Ditto?

 

[kirbyraeg]

Faster scarfers.

SD Onono->Scarfchomp, for example. I think with scarf there's a 50% chance of a tie, since the scarf is applied after copying base stats/stat boosts.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Faster scarfers.

SD Onono->Scarfchomp, for example. I think with scarf there's a 50% chance of a tie, since the scarf is applied after copying base stats/stat boosts.

So...basically if the sweeper isn't using speed boosts to sweep and then Ditto comes in and kills it ,(or you switch out), and you throw in a Faster pokemon that can kill it.

So what "sweepers" are there that can't be ruined by Ditto and in return can kill him?...I dont think there are any. As stated before only sweepers that don't lose to themselves can kill a Revenge Killing Ditto but that means it can't exactly win against itself either. So I guess the best way to combat ditto is to carry the counter to your own sweeper on your team.

Thoughts?

That and Landlos is one'o htem genie things ain't he?

 

[kirbyraeg]

Any defensive booster renders ditto useless. Calm minders, bulk up sweepers, etc. are all able to set up and not be beaten by a ditto because of the advantage leftovers gives them over a standard choiced ditto. They get destroyed by taunters, but seriously, a water absorb crocune is absolutely untouchable by ditto, because of its limited PP, regardless of when it comes in as you're setting up.

 

[xxmoosexx]

note to self

Use Defensive sweepers to sweep.

If ditto doesn't get banned I can see him on every team to be honest.

 

[M.K]

Anyone else think Choice Scarf Ditto is going straight to Ubers?
It's not simply the fact that it can decimate 1 Pokemon, but it compromises any sort of effort to set up and sweep, then completely reverses the tables without any effort on the Ditto's part.

 

[xxmoosexx]

I think it should.

I have a Salamence and a Garchomp on my team and both of them combined have maybe 1/16th of how many times my ditto has swept a team.

I actually switched my ditto in on a Salamence with Overconfidence.

I locked myself into outrage and by the time the opponent had switched in his Max defense Skarm I was at +6 atk. I let the Mence DD twice and killed 4 of his poke's. I OHKO'd the Skarm with Outrage.



I really hope weather doesn't take over the metagame. It just wouldn't seem like pokemon to be honest...it'd just be...weather battling itself.

 

[Retroend]

hey guys where are you playing this stuff? can someone give me a link or pm it to me? thanx.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

http://www.pokemon-online.eu/

Download Pokemon Online, and you're essentially good to go. Q & A Thread could have also worked.

 

[Retroend]

http://www.pokemon-online.eu/

Download Pokemon Online, and you're essentially good to go. Q & A Thread could have also worked.

thanx. sorry i shouldve tried that too.

 

[mood4food77]

ditto is dumb, seriously

i don't have much of a problem with it but it's too easy to use and it ruins the game

in comes kingdra, i DD, in comes ditto to **** everything

it basically takes a misprediction to beat ditto

 

[Wave⁂]

My ONLY problem with Ditto is that it requires no effort or thinking to use effectively.

Whether or not that's a reason to ban it is another story.

 

[Hobobloke]

I'm torn, I love ditto when I'm using it because it's amazing, but when other people use it it's a cheap pokemon that rewards people for playing badly.

 

[mood4food77]

hold on a sec guys

i feel like we discussed this exact thing already

 

[kirbyraeg]

we did at one point i think

but that's ok

ditto has a few shortcomings, let's discuss them:

1: ditto can't transform into an already-transformed ditto.
2: ditto can't transform into a zoroark that still is in its illusion form.
3: ditto can't transform into something behind a substitute
most of those are situational, but are still quite useful, especially #3.

depending on item choice, ditto might be ill-suited to muscle through defensive boosters with limited PP. unique situations might also arise which would give you an advantage i.e. ditto comes in to copy a guts bulk-up roobushin and yours is poisoned, giving you the offensive edge and letting you recover with drain punch. Sub+3 attack sets will be popular over setup, as being able to throw out two attacks against that specific opponent is exactly the same as throwing out a +2 attack as far as damage is concerned. calm minders/bulk up/stallers will all work effectively to beat a ditto, and sub+setup is still viable to block boosts from being stolen. Not carrying moves to hit yourself super effective is also an option, like a dd gyarados running dd/taunt/waterfall/ice fang to both give it more setup opportunities and to also weaken an opposing ditto to the point where priority can finish it off. forcing ditto to spend PP via pressure/protect might also be a nice last-ditch option. items like balloon can give you a situational advantage where ditto can't otherwise prey on your weaknesses, and red card might also be a nice way to get an out of control ditto off the field. luring a ditto in with a pure stat booster might also be a good option, but relying on the fact that ditto can only revenge you if you're choiced means you can play around it. Consider SDChomp paired with Skarmory, or SDLucario paired with Scarf Shandera, or Blaziken paired with Gyarados.

 

[mood4food77]

i actually meant those exact words were used before, the last 3 posts on the last page

but with your analysis, it seems like effective ways to deal with ditto but that could overcentralize the metagame, like how Gen IV garchomp did

but no, it won't be like that but it could be to some degree

 

[Circa]

My ONLY problem with Ditto is that it requires no effort or thinking to use effectively.

Whether or not that's a reason to ban it is another story.

I'm torn, I love ditto when I'm using it because it's amazing, but when other people use it it's a cheap pokemon that rewards people for playing badly.

Quite the opposite, the effort to using Ditto at max effectiveness is by forcing yourself to play badly. And making sure your opponent is dumb enough to not consider that you have a Ditto waiting in the midst to wreck every bit of their efforts and ultimately turn the game around. :3

Granted, for this to work most often, you'll have to act like a complete scrub the entire game.

 

[xxmoosexx]

I think it should be banned.
It will dominate anyone and everyone below the 1000 CRE mark.
It will just make the bad players better via pokemon, not by true adaption and "skill" at the game.

I think it should be banned but I can see why it wouldn't be.

Any other poke's that yall think should be banned?
I think the ability of shadow tag should be banned. The ability to trap any pokemon you want and react accordingly is too good. Before people wanted to get wall and counters of their sweepers out of the way and then find a way to throw in a wall breaker. That process took thought, careful planning, and an infernape(just an example) who is already frail as poop. I mean Shanderaa can cripple/weaken/kill any pokemon it wants to with few exceptions and just takes away from the skill of the game.

 

[Wrath`]

If seeing your opponet's team becomes the norm, you would be able to tell if they had ditto, meaning you would play diffrent and not set up SD/DD/ECT.. Same with shanderra, you would not send out your *insert Shanderra bait here* untill it was crippled or taken care of. I highly doubt Ditto and unrealeased Shadow tag Shanderra are going to overcerntrilize the meatgame.

 

[Fuelbi]

I doubt Ditto will, but something tells me that Shandera might overcentralize the game a bet.

The worst that they can do to Shandera might be just ban Shadow tag and let that be the end of it

 

[xxmoosexx]

Thats the way I feel about it. Just ban Shadow Tag. And I don't think seeing the other team will be the norm. Well if it does then oh well. But I won't like that change.

 

[Hobobloke]

I really haven't found Shandera that overwhelming. I don't think it or Ditto will be banned, they aren't that overcentalising, people talk them up a lot more than they should.

 

[xxmoosexx]

I dont know but maybe its just my personal experience with dittos. They just always seem to cause problems. I haven't lost to one yet but my ditto wrecks stuff up.

And I don't like Shanderaa trapping my Nattorei >:

 

[Hobobloke]

Run a shed shell then, even if shandera wasn't legal you'd still have to worry about magnezone. Ditto is indeed annoying but certainly not impossible to manage.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Yea. I've already implemented Shed Shell but people don't seem to like going to Magnezone. He's like an untapped power source that hasn't gotten the light he needs.

I think Im going to start running a Shandera with Shadow Tag.

 

[Hobobloke]

I'd say the reason for his lack of use is the fact he's essentially just an inferior shandera.

 

[Wave⁂]

i actually meant those exact words were used before, the last 3 posts on the last page

Last three posts? Okay.

I'd rather use Payback. 84.3% - 99.6% to 0 / 0 Shanderaa, OHKO with Stealth Rock, or some Spikes.

I just played him as well.

I gave up after i realized that my team had no way to muscle through bulk up landlos.

and yeah he is actually kevin garrett.

i really wish i could go on serebii to see what landlos was....

So those of you who played back when Garchomp was in OU what were the most effective ways of using him
That and does anyone think that any previously banned pokemon will come back to OU?

 

[xxmoosexx]

Well I even found that in 4th gen. People just forgot about the fact that Magnezone can kill all the pesky steels that would stop your dragon sweep.

 

[kirbyraeg]

So I think i found a great stallbreaker:

Gligar.

Most stall is sandstall, Gligar is neutral to rock and immune to spikes/tspikes, and he is much more defensive than Gliscor with Prevo stone while remaining fast enough to taunt most stallers.

 

[Fuelbi]

Shadow Tag Shandera should be banned, I mean, he just made 2 types of pokemon entirely unviable: Choiced fighters and choiced normal types. You switch in to these pokemon, and they're screwed as ****. That just opens Shandera to sub and Calm Mind till he's got enough to wreck a team. That right there has overcentralized the game a bit too much to pokemon who really need that extra boost, like Kojondo

 

[xxmoosexx]

What does Prevo Stone do?

Why is he much more defensive?

Explain to me why he is better than Gliscor and what causes him to be so please.

 

[Wave⁂]

What does Prevo Stone do?

Why is he much more defensive?

Explain to me why he is better than Gliscor and what causes him to be so please.

Pre-evolution stone boost the defense and special defense stats of NFE and NEE Pokemon by 50%.

 

[Hobobloke]

Shadow Tag Shandera should be banned, I mean, he just made 2 types of pokemon entirely unviable: Choiced fighters and choiced normal types. You switch in to these pokemon, and they're screwed as ****. That just opens Shandera to sub and Calm Mind till he's got enough to wreck a team. That right there has overcentralized the game a bit too much to pokemon who really need that extra boost, like Kojondo

Really, choiced normals...I struggle to think of one choice user who would want to use a normal type move.

Choice fighters is something more realistic but you exaggerate how much of a liability they are, the most obvious thing to do is not use fighting moves o your choiced poke until you've scouted the team but I understand that can be somewhat unreasonable. Magnezone can threaten the same thing against CB Scizor, albeit not as effective as Shandera. The problem with both of them doing that is they can be revenged, no matter how many CM's shandera gets a faster pokemon (not too much to ask to outspeed base 80) can likely OHKO with EQ, Waterfall, crunch, 'other SE physical move'. Easily stopping Shandera "wrecking" the whole team. I don't think it's too much to ask that if you're running a pokemon with choice fighting that you have a revege killer for Shandera as even if you don't your team will likely have one anyway.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Or laugh as you use a ditto to steal their boosts.