Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[mood4food77]

denchura is currently top 50 most used on dream tier AND i've gotten my team to 1200 record on both tr server and beta server using it as a lead

choice specs on that thing is no joke, it has a great speed stat so it doesn't need a choice scarf, and you have great neutral coverage with thunder/bug buzz/energy ball

even people on smogon say it's awesome, it's a great late game clean up poke

i'm saying shell break is dumb cause it makes defensive pokes able to sweep, i have no problem with shell break pokes outside of omastar and that's cause i run a rain team, in which kingdra can take him down

 

[Wave⁂]

Denchura is very awesome. It's just not OU material.

 

[UltiMario]

It's #47 because of Hype.

Latios is #74 God****, usage means how hyped Pokemon are right now, not how good they are yet. Wait for the Metagame to Stablize a little, and you'll see Denchura fall to UU (where I'd love to see it to help deal with Milotic)

Also Omastar has Swift Swim right?

+4 Spe Omastar outspeed and OHKO Kindgra? IDK

 

[mood4food77]

i can see it being OU for lead purposes, cause it's seriously too frail to do much else outside of revenge killing, most fighting moves deal 75% to the thing

the choice specs set does serious damage, i'm not sure if UU stuff could handle it, it's thunder almost OHKO's even the most bulky milotic

 

[UltiMario]

UU that CAN be used as a OU lead but still isn't really that good.

I don't think any Poke has gotten up to OU from being a good anti-lead, has there? Yeah...

 

[M.K]

Lol@ Denchura being awesome (Only thing it has going for it is Thunder. It's worthless otherwise, and with that, it's STILL worthless.)

Lol@ a team with no priority. Seriously, Shell Breakers get ***** by Priority, and Cloyster can only set up on Neutral or resisted Physical attacks. Other Shell Breakers have other issues, mostly with speed. (+2 Spe at Base 55 =/= fast)

The only thing you are saying here is "Lol@Your own team's weakness/a Pokemon's weakness", which every team/Pokemon has. You'd be surprised the number of times I come across teams without priority. I don't put in my Shell Break Omastar until I get rid of the Roopushin/Scizor anyways. My Omastar is invaluable.

 

[Fuelbi]

****, how the hell do you guys get so far up in the ladder. I mean, I'm at 3847, but I win pretty often :/

 

[mood4food77]

i think it's thunder may be too strong for UU play

when you have a 91%, 180 move coming off of a 439 SpA, it seriously leaves a dent in anything that doesn't resist it and even those who do, take at least 50% from it

a Calm, 252 HP/252 SpD Milotic takes 75.1% from a 252 SpA Timid Choice Specs Denchura, which is a clean 2HKO no matter what

and the most specially defensive grass pokes (Rotom-C, Nattorei, Cradily, and Birijion) will probably be OU and still take a huge chunk of damage from bug buzz, with Birijion not being able to avoid a 2HKO (it takes 56.5% minimum while running 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm)

i mean, we'll have to wait but i think because of it's thunder, it may be too much for UU play


i went onto the Beta server, did 6 matches and never lost, mostly due to rage quits but seriously, as long as my team doesn't come across Rohpusin or Zapdos, it wins

 

[UltiMario]

The issue is do to the stupid speed tiers you have to deal with now (such as Dory basically outspeeding the entire game in SS), you'll only get so far without some sort of Priority, which is now even more needed in Gen V than in Gen IV, and we all know how much Priority meant then, especially pre-Mence ban.

Also, Denchura ISN'T good. All Pokemon have weaknesses, sure, but Denchura has more weaknesses, as most UU/NU Pokemon do.

Want a good electric type? Sure. I guess Jolteon isn't that bad for a choice, Zapdos isn't either, especially with Zapdos when you have good synergy. What's that? You want a Gen V electric type? ABSOLUTELY! Electric genie is here for your Electric type needs with decent sweeping Potential!

...Yeaaaaaah. There are better options...

I'm at 3847

wat

when you have a 91%, 180 move coming off of a 439 SpA, it seriously leaves a dent in anything that doesn't resist it and even those who do, take at least 50% from it


a Calm, 252 HP/252 SpD Milotic takes 75.1% from a 252 SpA Timid Choice Specs Denchura, which is a clean 2HKO no matter what

We have fast, strong sweepers like Rotom in current UU that can 2HKO Milotic with Specs Thunderbolt. Is it BL? No. Why? Because I switch in my Ground type and now you're locked into Thunder with me at the advantage. Rotom even boasts better resistances and immunities (albeit a pursuit weakness)

and the most specially defensive grass pokes (Rotom-C, Nattorei, Cradily, and Birijion) will probably be OU and still take a huge chunk of damage from bug buzz, with Birijion not being able to avoid a 2HKO (it takes 56.5% minimum while running 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm)

The thing is, there's better options. If you really want to use Bug Buzz on Grasses, get Urgomoth, or if it doesn't get banned, Genosect. The ladder can also fire off Thunderbolts as well.

i mean, we'll have to wait but i think because of it's thunder, it may be too much for UU play

You've also got to realize the insane power creep this Gen. Stronger and stronger Pokes will fall to UU, and Denchura probably won't make the top-cut of the insanely strong new OU.

i went onto the Beta server, did 6 matches and never lost, mostly due to rage quits but seriously, as long as my team doesn't come across Rohpusin or Zapdos, it wins

Booh-hoo, six matches. That's not much. The first day the /tr/ server was hosting Gen V, I grinded up and never lost until I got to the #1 guy. Later, I got #1 from battles that didn't include him (it seems he left the server for the day). Six ragequit matches don't mean anything.

 

[mood4food77]

but they don't have the 91% accurate thunder that denchura does

it's a huge plus

 

[kirbyraeg]

Rotom-H+Randorosu for best defensive synergy ever.

 

[Circa]

but they don't have the 91% accurate thunder that denchura does

it's a huge plus

Borutorosu used Nasty Plot! Jolteon used Charge Beam! Politoed's Drizzle made it downpour!

Denchura has what now?

EDIT: Yes I know that the first two aren't as foolproof as a 91% accuracy Thunder, but both are generally better anyway. And Zapdos is still the bulky mother****er with its coolio typing that it always has been. Even moreso with Lightningrod now.

 

[UltiMario]

Edited my post.

Also:

but they don't have the 91% accurate thunder that denchura does

it's a huge plus

The fact is, Electric Genie's Thunderbolts are probably about as strong as Denchura's Thunders, even if they're a little weaker, they still don't miss. Zapdos's are probably pretty close too, but unlike Denchura, it can take a hit, so it can afford it.

The 30% chance of Para may or may not make up for the accuracy loss. I'm more of a Acc > Power person unless I need to score a vital OHKO, and I don't see that here, so I'll take no for now.

 

[Wave⁂]

Paralysis chance isn't even that great for a sweeper. If you want para support, Erufuun, Jirachi, and Pory2 are better. By far.

 

[Pluvia]

Maybe it's not timid, or Pokemon are scarfed?

It is Timid. How is that Ground/Steel mole outspeeding him? Like seriously wtf.

 

[UltiMario]

Sandstorm, maybe?

Sand Power doubles his speed in Sandstorm.

 

[PowerBomb]

You mean Sand Throw?

God I hate that mole. IMO base 88 speed is a bit annoying, but Gamefreak trolls whatever.

 

[Pluvia]

Ah probably sandstorm.

So far no Gen 5 Pokes that I've come across have shaken up my team enough for me. I'm just using my Gen 4 Pokes and I'm still winning quite a lot.

Also I feel bad for the people who use that Fire/Bug. 50% health lost from SR and completely ruined as a lead thanks to Trick.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Alright, so this is me being dumb and feeling stupid for using 'broken' mons.

But when I see a team of Shaymin-s, Darkrai, Chomp, Latios, Hippowdon, and Doryuuzu, I want to cry.

Should I wait for banlist or just suck it up and use things like that too?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Don't be ghayyyyy. Ubers are for losers.

The Pokemon used now, not the tier.

 

[Kofu]

None of those are Ubers except Shaymin-S and Darkrai. Well, maybe. I don't see Garchomp and Latios being declared Uber this time around, though.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Chomp- yeah, probably not this time around.
Latios with Soul Dew still seems too powerful for OU, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Moozle]

I can see Chomp going back to Ubers with even more sandstorm going around.

 

[Kofu]

I didn't say that Latios with Soul Dew wouldn't be Uber.

Nintendo itself bans Soul Dew when it allows Latios/Latias into typical battles, which should say something.

 

[Pluvia]

I love teams that try running Phazers with Leech Seeders. Cradily with Curse, Recover, Rock Slide and Earthquake completely walls them.

Plus it's even better if they lay down Toxic Spikes, switch him in once they've set down one and you now have a Crad that can't be statused and can't be badly poisoned out. And if you run Tyranitar for the Sp.Df boost it's even better.

Also that stupid Grass spike ball thing killed my Scizor with freaking Flamethrower?!?

 

[Kofu]

Also that stupid Grass spike ball thing killed my Scizor with freaking Flamethrower?!?

Sounds like you got trolled by a Zoroark.

 

[UltiMario]

Chomp- yeah, probably not this time around.
Latios with Soul Dew still seems too powerful for OU, but that's just my opinion.

You can't even get Soul Dew in Gen V as of yet.

 

[Pluvia]

Ah looks like I did.

Anyway I finally found a Gen 5 worthy of my team. Erufuun. It completely walled my Gengar, Bronzong and Scizor.

Scratch that. I thought I'd found a Pokemon that was impossible to attack but turns out you can kill it pretty easily.

 

[PowerBomb]

Dem defenses bro. All you need to do is hit it hard and it dies. Nattorei can Gyro Ball it's face when it Taunts you (which is god **** predictable).

 

[mood4food77]

nattorei learns worry seed, which means it can do something against shandera switch-ins, which is kinda cool

and hihidaruma is awesome

 

[Pluvia]

I like the fact that Scizor still isn't banned. Quite literally the only things that can stop my Scizor in it's tracks is Heatran, Magnezone and Zapdos. Thanks to Life Orb, SR and SD everything else is OHKO or 2HKO (one hit if I manage to get 2 SD's off, something that's surprisingly easy) by him.

Like seriously why was Mence banned in Gen IV over him? Scizor has been unaffected by this transition to V.

 

[UltiMario]

Scizor was used so much to help check mence, taking outrages and Meteors well and hurting with Bullet Punch.

Oh, also, Heatran is on like a quarter of every team, and Magnezone/Zapdos aren't THAT rare either.

Unless you're talking about Gen 5, in which you'd still be pretty wrong.

 

[kirbyraeg]

SubSalacDrum Hihidaruma. Y/N?

Trap politoed, get sun out and kingdra gets KO'ed by fire punch after SR, either nature. KINGDRA.

 

[mood4food77]

scizor was beat by pretty much every fire and water type in the game

salamence punched babies

i've been using choice scarf hihidaruma with EQ/SE/Flare Blitz/U-turn and it's awesome, it pretty much decimates enemies

yea, his flare blitz is stupidly powerful with encourage, it 2HKO's everything (obviously except those who are immune to fire)

what's with his 2nd form, if you use his ability darma, he goes all non-firey and becomes super defensive when his health dips below 50%

also, if porygon2 isn't either a top 5 poke or banned, i'm boycotting all those who don't use him

 

[UltiMario]

SubSalacDrum Hihidaruma. Y/N?

Trap politoed, get sun out and kingdra gets KO'ed by fire punch after SR, either nature. KINGDRA.

Did you just say

Kingdra

YES

 

[Rubyiris]

the fact that mence was banned in the first place shows me that shoddy is a joke.

get better at pokemon little kids.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

the fact that mence was banned in the first place shows me that shoddy is a joke.

get better at pokemon little kids.

I believe by Shoddy you meant Smogon. Smogon decides the tiers, not Shoddy.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Adamant hihidaruma can also ko suicune with +6 fire punch (in sun) and survive a CB Scizor bullet punch behind a reflect.

I'm going to keep talking about this because i can.

 

[mood4food77]

what about flare blitz, cause that thing has like 250 BP or something stupid

 

[Pluvia]

Scizor was used so much to help check mence, taking outrages and Meteors well and hurting with Bullet Punch.

Oh, also, Heatran is on like a quarter of every team, and Magnezone/Zapdos aren't THAT rare either.

Unless you're talking about Gen 5, in which you'd still be pretty wrong.

scizor was beat by pretty much every fire and water type in the game

Heatran and Magnezone are easily dispatched by a Pokemon that knows Earthquake (aka everything) and Zapdos by something that knows Stone Edge (aka Tyranitar).

Once they're out of play Scizor will be able to power through teams like they're butter. He laughs off Water types or bulky Steels (Bronzong, Grass/Steel thing) thanks to Bug Bite.