I'm too slow at this game.

[MooseEatsBear]

I've been getting into competitive smash for a long time now, and I've been getting better, but very very very slowly. There are pros that have been competitive smashing for less time than I have, and are so much faster than me. I can only shine bair Peach at 300, can't waveshine with Fox, can't multishine more than 4 times with Falco, and none at all with Fox. My shines get canceled after, like 15 frames. I can't even bat drop with Falcon. I can only do 2 FC nairs consistently with Peach... I'm just too slow for having practicing smash religiously for three and a half years. What can I do to make myself faster?

 

[ETWIST51294]

Wow dude, ALL of that stuff you wrote are ALL unnecessary to learn in high level play exept for waveshining. I can only multi shine twice with falco because It's useful for shield pressuring. Although I can multi moonwalk with falcon but the only reason I know how to do that is because he's my main.

 

[MooseEatsBear]

Wow dude, ALL of that stuff you wrote are ALL unnecessary to learn in high level play exept for waveshining. I can only multi shine twice with falco because It's useful for shield pressuring. Although I can multi moonwalk with falcon but the only reason I know how to do that is because he's my main.

True, but that was just to explain that I'm slow compared to how long I've been playing. Wavedashing with Fox is still hard for me. I can't keep consistent combos in, and some things that I see are so easy for some people, is still so hard for me to do.

 

[Tee ay eye]

use marth, sheik, or jigglypuff

 

[X1-12]

you're trying to do loads of unnecessary stuff


why would you learn to multi shine with both spaceis, FC with peach and use falcon? how many characters do you main? just pick one and learn that chars abilities if you focus on one thign you'll get it down

also shine-bair with falco kills peach at like 120? no need to do it at 300 and multi-shining is pretty useless tbh

 

[gm jack]

Practice. Sit down and do ti again and again until you can do it on demand. There is no magic trick. Some people will find it easier than others. The rest of us just have to put in the hours to keep up.

EDIT - X1-12, where abouts are you from?

 

[MooseEatsBear]

why would you learn to multi shine with both spaceis, FC with peach and use falcon? how many characters do you main? just pick one and learn that chars abilities if you focus on one thign you'll get it down

Falco, Sheik, Jiggs, Falcon, Marth and maybe Peach.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Falco, Sheik, Jiggs, Falcon, Marth and maybe Peach.

I would say main Falco and Sheik as your secondary. Having 6 mains will make you worse.

 

[MooseEatsBear]

I would say main Falco and Sheik as your secondary. Having 6 mains will make you worse.

I'll throw falcon somewhere in the mix, there. I'll practice with them now. Gotta get ready for mah first tourney. *Pound* 4, here we come.

 

[gm jack]

Why would you need Falcon if you have Falco and Sheik down well? Start learning one or two characters to begin with and then expand. I have heard people saying that it is a good idea to pick up Fox early on as his techs are most numerous and complex. After learning fox, you should know more or less everything you could need.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Falcon is fun to play as thats probably why he wants to 3rd him.

 

[X1-12]

Why would you need Falcon if you have Falco and Sheik down well? Start learning one or two characters to begin with and then expand. I have heard people saying that it is a good idea to pick up Fox early on as his techs are most numerous and complex. After learning fox, you should know more or less everything you could need.

I disagree a little bit with this, i think if you start with fox and then change to other characters your mind may be running too fast for the other characters, for example i learnt the wavedash with mario, who's jump take 5 frames(i think) I then tried to do it with falco who's jump takes 6 frames, this one frame difference totally messed me up and i kept pressing R to early and full hopping, similar things may happen if you learn fox first, you can learn techs really fast that will become useless and maybe make it harder for you to master other characters later

 

[TresChikon]

What's wrong with playing 6 characters?

PC Chris is the spontaneous magician with his mystical bag of tricks.

Say goodbye to bad MU's.

 

[MooseEatsBear]

What's wrong with playing 6 characters?

PC Chris is the spontaneous magician with his mystical bag of tricks.

Say goodbye to bad MU's.

I was thinking Azen, but yeah, I agree with this. I kinda wanted the best of spacies, to normals, to heavies, to floaties.

 

[X1-12]

I was thinking Azen, but yeah, I agree with this. I kinda wanted the best of spacies, to normals, to heavies, to floaties.

if you try to learn 6 characters it'll take you 3 trillion times longer than learning them one at a time

I can't say cause I've never asked PC Chris or Azen but I'm pretty sure they learnt one character then learnt another until they had learned lots of different ones, not learning loads of characters all at once

 

[gm jack]

I disagree a little bit with this, i think if you start with fox and then change to other characters your mind may be running too fast for the other characters, for example i learnt the wavedash with mario, who's jump take 5 frames(i think) I then tried to do it with falco who's jump takes 6 frames, this one frame difference totally messed me up and i kept pressing R to early and full hopping, similar things may happen if you learn fox first, you can learn techs really fast that will become useless and maybe make it harder for you to master other characters later

But it's easier to slow something down then speed it up. SHFFLing with Fox is slightly tricker than with Bowser.

 

[MooseEatsBear]

if you try to learn 6 characters it'll take you 3 trillion times longer than learning them one at a time

I can't say cause I've never asked PC Chris or Azen but I'm pretty sure they learnt one character then learnt another until they had learned lots of different ones, not learning loads of characters all at once

That's what I've done. I started with Falco, then it was Marth, then Jiggs, then Sheik, then Falcon, then I went down the list. Samus, Link, Ganon, Peach, Luigi. I've spent a good month to month and a half with each character, switching around occasionally to keep myself on my toes.

 

[X1-12]

learning to play all the characters would be a cool party trick but even Azen and PC Chris have mains which they'll stick to in tourneys. if you're practising for a tourney you should practise with only 2 or 3 characters, you dont get points in a tourney by being average with everyone

 

[gm jack]

That's what I've done. I started with Falco, then it was Marth, then Jiggs, then Sheik, then Falcon, then I went down the list. Samus, Link, Ganon, Peach, Luigi. I've spent a good month to month and a half with each character, switching around occasionally to keep myself on my toes.

That's also possibly the problem. You keep moving on at the point where you should be really looking deep into the characters. I doubt many, if any characters could be taken to tourney level in that time by most pros, let alone us mortals. People like the spacies take time to get down, and require a high level of tech skill resulting in **** near perfect control over them on command. It takes a while to get that.

 

[ETWIST51294]

VANZ is the only person I know that plays 5 characters in tourny. He plays Jiggs, Peach, IC, Ylink, and Sheik. Azen almost always goes Marth when he's playing against someone thats good. Same for PC.

 

[MooseEatsBear]

That's also possibly the problem. You keep moving on at the point where you should be really looking deep into the characters. I doubt many, if any characters could be taken to tourney level in that time by most pros, let alone us mortals. People like the spacies take time to get down, and require a high level of tech skill resulting in **** near perfect control over them on command. It takes a while to get that.

Alright... Falco, Falcon, Sheik.

 

[TresChikon]

Here's an insightful post on having secondaries and tertiaries by Dogy.

[insert fighting game lesson plug]
You better realize that, as long as you live in America or any area that is ruled by the double elimination format, people are going to have counterpick (characters) and secondaries. That's what the format implies.

It's not the same as japan where they get one shot in they're done, so they're more inclined, sometimes forced, to learn horrid matchups instead of using previous info and switching to a more favorable, or even advantagous matchup.
[/fighting game lesson plug]

So yeah, you can try to fault people for not sticking to one character all you want. I hope you realize you're playing a specific game in a specific format that screams "You need to know more than one character."

Generally, I do agree with ETWIST, you should focus your efforts on two or so characters, I just didn't want you to think that it's the only strategy however.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Maybe instead of focusing on the unnecessary technical things you should get your basics down with a character. Being able to move comfortably all the time, and control your character will make you better than technical feats like Shine Bairs at 300%.

On that note, with your current finger dexterity, if you can do most of what you say, it sounds like you're struggling with timings as opposed to actual finger speed deficiencies. If you can FC Nairs in succession and Shine Bair at 300, I strongly, strongly doubt that your issue is speed as opposed to lack of consistent muscle memory in your basics. This seems to be a trend amongst some newcomers...

 

[MooseEatsBear]

On that note, with your current finger dexterity, if you can do most of what you say, it sounds like you're struggling with timings as opposed to actual finger speed deficiencies. If you can FC Nairs in succession and Shine Bair at 300, I strongly, strongly doubt that your issue is speed as opposed to lack of consistent muscle memory in your basics. This seems to be a trend amongst some newcomers...

Well, I'm the best person that smashes in my group of friends, so I don't necessarily think I'm bad...

 

[victra♥]

Well, I'm the best person that smashes in my group of friends, so I don't necessarily think I'm bad...

Thats not a very good mindset lol...or logic for that matter.

But hey, just take it easy. You're focusing on really fancy stuff. There's no real point in learning how to shine->bair or multishine or anything if you're just gonna get ***** in an actual match. You'll just look like a douche bag. XD

Either way, everyone kinda said it better than I did. XD If I came across mean I didn't mean it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Well, I'm the best person that smashes in my group of friends, so I don't necessarily think I'm bad...

Oh god you're a friends only player who's never been to a tournament.

*flees thread*

 

[LAX_]

yeah almost everyone in the world can get good techskill by practice alone.
the only difference is that some will master it faster than others.

i used to play luigi a lot, so he was the first char i learned ATs on.
first i leanred how to WD and L cancel.
at the time i watched a ton of Pakman vids since his luigi was(is) beast.
and there was this part where he slap chopped someone to the opposite side of FD, and he did 3 wavedashes really fast to get to the person. i was like WTF how does he do that! Now obviously i can do it really easily since i have practiced so much.

same thing with Fox and Waveshining.
before i couldnt. i would spend days trying. then i took a break (week or so) then came back and i can do it pretty well now (still need practice though).

point being is that you just need to practice and stick to it. everyone learns at a different pace.

 

[MooseEatsBear]

Oh god you're a friends only player who's never been to a tournament.

*flees thread*

I've been to two tournaments.

 

[Cleo555]

Oh god you're a friends only player who's never been to a tournament.

*flees thread*

Actually I think the quality of the tournaments are important too. The tournies I find around here are usually extremely local and so no pros that anyone has heard of goes there. I feel like Ohio is extremely secluded...like if u go to game junkie's website the first thing u find there is only one tourney theyre hosting at a school 10 mins from where i live =P they went out of business but still hold tournaments =( i guess it doesnt matter much since i suck at smash bros anyway but id still love to see some pros go at it in person.

 

[Siglemic]

Bro don't go to pound 4 as your first tourney

you'll walk in there and wtf hard

 

[MooseEatsBear]

Bro don't go to pound 4 as your first tourney

you'll walk in there and wtf hard

It's my first major tourney. not my first.

 

[Zunari]

Get good with one character and your other characters will get better with much less effort.

 

[TresChikon]

and there was this part where he slap chopped someone to the opposite side of FD

Slap Chop?

Anyways, I wouldn't be so much in a rush to Pound, you should get used to the tourney scene before going there.

How comfortable you are really affects your gameplay.

 

[Holty]

I've been getting into competitive smash for a long time now, and I've been getting better, but very very very slowly. There are pros that have been competitive smashing for less time than I have, and are so much faster than me. I can only shine bair Peach at 300, can't waveshine with Fox, can't multishine more than 4 times with Falco, and none at all with Fox. My shines get canceled after, like 15 frames. I can't even bat drop with Falcon. I can only do 2 FC nairs consistently with Peach... I'm just too slow for having practicing smash religiously for three and a half years. What can I do to make myself faster?

You're too slow? Play Brawl

 

[Oracle]

If you really want to get good, go to lots of tournaments. I mean lots of tournaments. Experience at top level play is how people get really good *looks at PC*

 

[gnosis]

Tech skill's more about timing than it is speed. I don't think I have particularly fast hands but when I mess up a tech it's usually because I'm moving too fast and/or mistime something. Edit: not to say you can't go too slow, obviously you can, but I think I have pretty slow hands and I can go fast enough for most stuff; speed doesn't seem to be the limiting factor on tech skill as often as finesse/consistency/timing is.

So, the important thing is to really analyze what it is you're trying to do, and practice doing the right motions in the right order. Thinking clear about the technique like this at least helped me figure out how to do a lot of things in an easier way and with more consistency. Another thing that helped me a lot was when I started using 'shortcuts'. Quarter and half circles, for example, are really useful for a variety of techs, especially for spacies.

Also, practicing for hours on end can be really bad if you lose focus and start training incorrect muscle memory. I think practicing in short but frequent sessions is the best way to learn both correct technique and have it stick with you. ~15 mins every day of focused practice is a lot better than something like a two hour session once a week. But maybe that's just me!

 

[Charlesz]

play brawl bro

 

[Tichinde925]

Bro don't go to pound 4 as your first tourney

you'll walk in there and wtf hard

My first tournament was at KoreanDJ's house.

 

[ETWIST51294]

don't play brawl bro

 

[KHON™]

you'll get faster naturally