Ice Climber's grabs and desynces

[KingDozie]

How to d-throw combo floaties? Regrab at very low %s is fine but then. Nana side-b doesn't really lead to a regrab, I havent that much success with Ice Block ( regrab probably only works on bad DI against floaties). Maybe just fair or is Blizzard an option?

I dont really have much for Dthrow combos on floaties except Dthrow to Upsmash. You could use Blizzards or fair to set up for a regrab.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Double post sry

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Hm tried Nana up-smashing (after a little forward walk with her) don't know if it is DIable but otherwise you can follow up with another Popo aerial. Might be a setup for the Dairchain I will keep testing. Fair->regrab is most solid though probably. Blizzard doesn't really work on floaties but on semi-floaties it was kind of successful and I got regrabs until around 40%.

 

[Foxy K]

Try doing Fthrow to Fair and i also like up throw to fair as well but it doesn't always work.

That's the problem though- it doesn't always work. I need to figure out how to always make it work. I've done fthrow->fair, especially when I'm a little too far away from the edge and am not confident about landing another regrab, but I want consistency.

Is there a way to help Nana get more distance forward? She's magnetized to me pretty hard and it looked like Hylian was getting some better distance with her in the videos he posted.

 

[Hylian]

I always do dthrow fair, just maka nana dash before she jumps if you need more distance. If you are doing uthrow fair you need to handoff to nana first so that you can jump high enough with popo to hit the fair.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

When the d-throw-> fair regrab percentages are over, are their regrab combos that work on higher %s? Nana side-b and blizzard only worked on lower %s from my testing but I am not sure about Ice Block and other options I didn't really think of

 

[KingDozie]

When the d-throw-> fair regrab percentages are over, are their regrab combos that work on higher %s? Nana side-b and blizzard only worked on lower %s from my testing but I am not sure about Ice Block and other options I didn't really think of

I really dont know man i usually just do a finishing combo at high %

 

[Iceman]

Has anyone found a practical use for the Squall desynch?

 

[Foxy K]

Has anyone found a practical use for the Squall desynch?

I use synced squall a lot (not really sure if I should be necessarily, but eh), so it could be a way to cover yourself when it ends by immediately acting with Nana and then going from there.

 

[Iceman]

I don't know how often you guys browse the Melee Ice Climbers thread, but I was trying the new desynch Fly Amanita was talking about in the general thread. The Shield hitstun desync. It is pretty sick, and I'm having tons of fun with it. Has anyone else tried it yet?

 

[KingDozie]

I use synced squall a lot (not really sure if I should be necessarily, but eh), so it could be a way to cover yourself when it ends by immediately acting with Nana and then going from there.

Just use synced squall

 

[KingDozie]

I don't know how often you guys browse the Melee Ice Climbers thread, but I was trying the new desynch Fly Amanita was talking about in the general thread. The Shield hitstun desync. It is pretty sick, and I'm having tons of fun with it. Has anyone else tried it yet?

Also what is the trick iceman?

 

[Iceman]

Here is what Fly posted:"Some of you already know about this from Twitter, Twitch, or talking to me elsewhere, but I haven't made a post about it yet and I think it's pretty useful in some circumstances:

A lot of the time when ICs are synced and have the same shield size, an enemy's attack will hit both ICs' shields at the same time. Popo and Nana hence exit shieldstun at the same time. Since Nana reads inputs 6 frames late, this means that if I input a command within 6 frames of shieldstun ending, Popo will ignore it since he's still in shieldstun, but Nana will receive it after exiting shieldstun and hence act on it. There are a lot of things you can do out of this, but the most useful one to me seems to be telling Nana to jump and blizzard while Popo continues shielding. Ice block instead of blizzard seems better in some circumstances, as well, like when you're confident the enemy will stay near the ground and not throw out a move that will clank with the ice block, or when you don't have a guaranteed punishment OoS and the enemy is outside of blizzard range.

More explicitly, the main application I see of this is to punish or reverse the pressure caused by high damage moves that ICs have a difficult time retaliating against out of shield. For example, Falcon kneeing a shield over and over can be punished with this; it can also be used to retaliate after Ganon fairs your shield, which can be a pretty threatening situation, especially when you're cornered. You can even squeeze a blizzard between two Marth fairs, but the timing for that is pretty strict and much more difficult on your end than Marth's.

In a lot of ways, this is like doing belay OoS -> blizzard after an attack hits your shield, but other than being more difficult than that, it's essentially strictly better. For one thing, doing belay OoS requires inputting the belay after Popo's shieldstun ends, meaning Nana isn't going to jump and start a blizzard (or whatever else you might want to do) at least 6 frames later. With this shieldstun desynch, you can have Nana jumping up to 6 frames before that. Aside from that, the solo belay animation is terribly laggy, and you generally can't expect to get any sort of punishment off of the blizzard (or ice block/etc). With the shieldstun desynch, you can have Popo act OoS as soon as you want him to. To give a sloppy example of this desynch in action, here's an instance of me using it at TNE (the time being 8:16 if the timestamp doesn't work for you). I hit down after shieldstun ended and hence accidentally spot-dodged, and reacted poorly after that as well, but I hope that clip suggests how this can actually be useful.

The last thing I'll say about this is that the timing varies a ton depending on the move, and also a bit on the move's staleness. When a move hits your shield, you first go through hitlag (almost always just a function of move damage) and then go through shieldstun (purely a function of move damage), so the time you exit shieldstun tends to vary a lot depending on the damage of the move hitting your shield. This means that the 6 frame window in which you want to tell Nana to jump occurs in pretty different places depending on what hits your shield, so it's really hard to do this on a whim. I recommend learning the timing for specific high-damage moves which are difficult to punish OoS, such as the aforementioned knees and Ganon fairs. There are plenty of other examples across the cast."

 

[cloudz]

what chall know about that cloudz combo?
F-throw/Dthrow, Desynched F Smash, ice block, nanapault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLJkiJCygHk

will this work in project m?

 

[KingDozie]

what chall know about that cloudz combo?
F-throw/Dthrow, Desynched F Smash, ice block, nanapault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLJkiJCygHk

will this work in project m?

It should try it out.

 

[Foxy K]

I had an idea similar to this, except you do a shffled nair (they probably have to be at low-medium percent and/or crouch cancel it, but whatever), L cancel desynch Popo ice block, shorthopped nanapult. Completely untested in any capacity, just sounded cool on paper. Not sure how well the nair knockback sets them up for this though, and it wasn't meant to be a comboing tool, more of a pressuring/cornering tool.

 

[cloudz]

Ill try both of them out tonight, let you guys know,

 

[Foxy K]

Can someone help me with handoff timings? I can nail popo dthrow -> nana regrab pretty consistently on just about any character, since the visual cue is easy: once they hit the ground, regrab, with a tiny walk forward beforehand.

But I can almost never land nana fthrow -> popo regrab. The one time I landed it on Peach, I walked forward way farther than I had been when I wasn't getting it, but now I"m trying it on Falcon and I can't get it. I don't know if it's timing or spacing or both. Are there any visual cues I should be looking for? I've heard wait until the hammer hits them and I've also heard wait a split second until after the hammer hits them. How much should I walk forward?

 

[Hylian]

You pretty much just can't do it Foxy. It's possibly, but unreliable because of a throw release point bug.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Think of it as 20 frames slower obviously. Don't think there are any visual cues, maybe on certain characters' height after the throw but also that is dependent on several factors.
EDIT: Oh, OK, didnt know about that bug. Hm, Nana up-throws most of the time either way

 

[Foxy K]

You pretty much just can't do it Foxy. It's possibly, but unreliable because of a throw release point bug.

WHAT.

Good to know, lol, now I can quit practicing. This is good because I bet I could get it down if it worked, but only IF the PMBR is working on it/thinks they can fix it. Please tell me that's the case.

Also I can do it decently well on Fox, so go me?

 

[Iceman]

I've also had a problem with the second handoff. I thought that I just wasn't moving forward enough for the second handoff, but I guess there is still a technical issue. So should we just give up on handoffs until it is fixed? Have you found any interesting PM ICs tech Hylian?

 

[Hylian]

I just like handoff -> popo spike. I have some other interesting stuff but really I'm just spending my time trying to fix them :/.

 

[Iceman]

Appreciate all the effort bro. Keep going strong!!

 

[Foxy K]

I appreciate the work you do, Hylian. As long as we're talking about fixing stuff, I'm curious as to the ice block situation. I've heard that in Melee, aerial ice blocks floated a bit before dropping, protecting us better, and that they do not in Brawl/PM? I've never looked for myself (I don't really play Melee now that I have the Smash I've wanted since Brawl came out), but I'm just curious to know if it's true and whether or not they plan on changing it or leaving it as is.

BTW: I've been able to really consistently recreate the bug where Nana doesn't immediately throw by holding all the way forward when I dthrow handoff to her. But only at the ledge. She throws up like normal in the middle.

 

[Iceman]

Is it still possible to the belay out of shield desync in this game?

 

[BigglesWorth]

Has anyone else messed around with dashdance roll buffer desyncs? By "DD Roll Buffer Desync", I mean you can do a semi circle forward motion while shield grabbing to get nana to roll behind the opponent while shield grabbing and if you do back>forward>shield-semi circle-a within frames of each other then there is a timing to buffer nana to shield grab herself or do a smash attack (a similar input for fmsash works). She turns and grabs immediately like a pivot boost grab when you input the grab so its probably the turn around-grab that is registered instead of the shield grab that popo does since it is all within frames of each other. If you input a smash attack, she will do it while sliding back towards popo after the roll. I was thinking about the uses of it creating tech chase situations where they will grabbed if they stayed or rolled. It's also a decent fakeout since nana will do the grab for (feels like olimar's grab XD) and throw them up for an aerial. am also wondering how effective shieldstun desyncs work in PM, if anyone has done some labbing with a friend on them.

 

[Iceman]

Has anyone else messed around with dashdance roll buffer desyncs? By "DD Roll Buffer Desync", I mean you can do a semi circle forward motion while shield grabbing to get nana to roll behind the opponent while shield grabbing and if you do back>forward>shield-semi circle-a within frames of each other then there is a timing to buffer nana to shield grab herself or do a smash attack (a similar input for fmsash works). She turns and grabs immediately like a pivot boost grab when you input the grab so its probably the turn around-grab that is registered instead of the shield grab that popo does since it is all within frames of each other. If you input a smash attack, she will do it while sliding back towards popo after the roll. I was thinking about the uses of it creating tech chase situations where they will grabbed if they stayed or rolled. It's also a decent fakeout since nana will do the grab for (feels like olimar's grab XD) and throw them up for an aerial. am also wondering how effective shieldstun desyncs work in PM, if anyone has done some labbing with a friend on them.

It seems like the shieldstun desynch still works in this game. You just have to know which moves will help you perform it effectively. It is a good thing to have in your bag of tricks if you are forced to shield an attack.

 

[RideTheLine]

I've been playing these dudes since the day 3.0 came out. I play them in Brawl and Melee, and they've always been my best character, but I don't play a very "Ice Climbers" Ice Climbers.

I'm learning to work with the both of them. Smashing out of grabs is always great, and I'm a fan of the yo-yo (fthrow-Squall), but what are some practical applications for a lot of the desyncs listed here? I'd just like a few examples of when you guys would desync.

 

[KingDozie]

What grab button do you guys use to do infinities and cg chain?

Edit:The typo

 

[RideTheLine]

The Sopo dribble mixed with an occasional yo-yo. I'm currently working on dthrow-fair for tech chase opportunities. Any tips on how to make sure I get the spike from Nana?

 

[Iceman]

The Sopo dribble mixed with an occasional yo-yo. I'm currently working on dthrow-fair for tech chase opportunities. Any tips on how to make sure I get the spike from Nana?

You want to downtrow with Popo first and then make Nana jump and Fair. So basically I grab, flick down the c-stick, press x, and then flick the c-stick forward

 

[Iceman]

I've been playing these dudes since the day 3.0 came out. I play them in Brawl and Melee, and they've always been my best character, but I don't play a very "Ice Climbers" Ice Climbers.

I'm learning to work with the both of them. Smashing out of grabs is always great, and I'm a fan of the yo-yo (fthrow-Squall), but what are some practical applications for a lot of the desyncs listed here? I'd just like a few examples of when you guys would desync.

This is a pretty complicated question to answer since it changes from matchup to matchup. The spot dodge and dash dance desync are usually used for quick desyncs and I use them if I'm ok with my current position. The roll desync is useful when you happen to change positions with a roll. You probably shouldn't be rolling all the time, but when you do it super helpful.

 

[Iceman]

What sort of OOS options do the Ice Climbers have in this game? I don't think Belay out of shield is possible and I'm pretty sure that the Ice Climbers jump out of their shield at the same time meaning that can't lead to a desync. Are the only options roll, spot dodge, aerial OOS, shieldstun desync, or flicking up on c-stick to do a smash?

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I know a chaingrab d-throw footstool jab reset regrab and the d-throw footstool an lead to kill moves like up smash,down smash,forward smash

 

[KingDozie]

When you dthrow chain someone around the ledge, cant you hold them for a while and finish them off with a smash attack? I remember someone saying that i just want to be confirmed if its true then tell me how you do it.

 

[Nguz95]

@ Hylian or whoever can answer this. I've been practicing the Melee handoff near the ledge a lot, but I've been encountering an interesting problem. Sometimes Nana fthrows like I expect, but other times she remains under my control, meaning I can do whatever throw I want. Is there something I'm doing to keep Nana under my control, or is it random? The reason I ask is if I can consistently keep Nana synced, then I could potentially do a dthrow chain.

Note: this happens regardless of where I am on the stage.

 

[KingDozie]

@ Hylian or whoever can answer this. I've been practicing the Melee handoff near the ledge a lot, but I've been encountering an interesting problem. Sometimes Nana fthrows like I expect, but other times she remains under my control, meaning I can do whatever throw I want. Is there something I'm doing to keep Nana under my control, or is it random? The reason I ask is if I can consistently keep Nana synced, then I could potentially do a dthrow chain.

Note: this happens regardless of where I am on the stage.

Same thing as well sometimes that happens to me. Its probably a random Nana AI thing.

 

[Hylian]

@ Hylian or whoever can answer this. I've been practicing the Melee handoff near the ledge a lot, but I've been encountering an interesting problem. Sometimes Nana fthrows like I expect, but other times she remains under my control, meaning I can do whatever throw I want. Is there something I'm doing to keep Nana under my control, or is it random? The reason I ask is if I can consistently keep Nana synced, then I could potentially do a dthrow chain.

Note: this happens regardless of where I am on the stage.

This sometimes happens when you hold A down when throwing. It cannot be done every time AFAIK.

 

[Nguz95]

Thanks Hylian! I heard your Ice Climbers were doing well at SKTAR. Can you elaborate on what you were doing?