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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
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If she recovers from below, you can cover all her options by grabbing ledge. If she recovers from above, she has a number of mixups. Depending how close she is to the stage, what stage it is, and how high she is, she can land far enough away so that you can't catch up to her with ledge dash in time to punish her lag. This happens when she recovers downwards at a diagonal obtuse angle and lands directly on the stage, so she's in less lag than if she were to reappear above the stage and have to fall to it. If you ledge dash preemptively to catch this, she could potentially sweet spot, land behind you or at any number of locations (think of it like a bunch of angles on a plane), land on a platform, or even edge cancel off a platform. Most of the time, you're better off covering the ledge and then just maintaining control instead of trying to cover every option. She's so bad in the neutral that it doesn't matter. Point is, her recovery can be good if you know what you're doing.
 

Diosama

Stand User
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I think there's too large of skill a discrepancy between the two, matchups are based off players of equal skill after all.
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
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Oh and back when I used to practice Zelda tech, I found that there were positions offstage where you could either ledge cancel the up-b or sweet spot. Can't do it anymore, but it's some neat stuff.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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You still think that after facing M2k 2-3 times? rofl.
He's rusty af, and at the time he made that assessment Emilio was so ahead of his time I can't blame him lol. And the sheik metagame was **** compared to now.

Should I dig up the post where you claimed Ganon vs falcon and Ganon vs sheik are 50/50? Lol. Opinions change.
 

Coastward

Smash Lord
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Nov 6, 2010
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Pumpkin Hill
since there seems to be a surge of new ganon players, videos, etc, i think it's time i made another combo video. i've been itching to make one again and this song i've had stuck in my head for the past few days feels so right.

so if you can help me and send me clips you think are good just reply to this or message me on smashboards or on twitter/facebook. i feel like i can do better than my last one.
 

F. Stein

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
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Wyoming
Totally do it, i'd love to see a new combo video. Always helps to have something to watch between tournament matches.
 

Swagic

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
406
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Indianapolis or South Florida
Oh ****, Tampa?
SUPPOSEDLY he'll be at the Ft. Myers monthly tomorrow, and SUPPOSEDLY there will be at least one recording setup, with a possibility of streaming. First time in a new venue, so we're not certain on the internet situation, but there will definitely be recording. He apparently hasn't lost one of these since back when Shiz was living in Naples, so I'm fully expecting him to make it to WF and GF, which will definitely be recorded, provided the guy with the setup comes.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
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Messages
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The back country, GA
Dennis is a better smasher overall than me too, considering consistency. But I'd bet on myself in dittos. Played his DK before, that would definitely be harder.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Messages
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The back country, GA
PS thinking about never banning FD vs Fox again.

Marth.

The thought is to ban DL64 against campy foxes, which would bait the FD pick.

This might be because my grab punishes are one of the strongest pieces of my game. OCCASIONALLY (like one 0-death per game), I can techchase like wizzy w/falcon, and cg like m2k with Marth, and can chaingrab fox hard with doc. I can just practice Marth DD and chaingrab and be a much bigger threat to a top level fox on that stage than any Ganon could be.
 
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Swagic

Smash Journeyman
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Indianapolis or South Florida
If a matchup is harder than a ditto, how is it not worse than 50/50????
They're just very different. The Ganon ditto is 50-50 because it's a ditto, but it's easier than a lot of 50-50 mus because it's a relatively simple rock-paper-scissors. Other 50-50s are similar in structure, but have many more moving parts.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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The back country, GA
DK matchup isn't too complicated, you just have to respect certain things (like bair, uair, dd grab dtilt/ftilt, mash out fast, etc), and know he's very capable of gimping Ganon. You can't let up at all, but Ganon definitely wins.

He doesn't have an answer for good use of bair really. Switching between AC bair and bair into dj options frustrates him. And you can cg him, and any edgeguard is stomp city.

:denzel:
 
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Linguini

Smash Master
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Jul 17, 2006
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Weston, Florida
You still think that after facing M2k 2-3 times? rofl.
Actually....not too much has changed lol. Maybe 65-35 in sheik's favor but that's only a 5% shift lol. Last time I played m2k I hadn't played against a sheik in years so it wasn't exactly the best representation of the matchup. Still think it's winnable...
 

itsbme

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Slippi.gg
BME#828
I'm not an expert myself but the little I played on netplay Ganon vs sheik seems okay. If the sheik stayed grounded and tried like tilts I could like land f smashes or bair while she whiff'd. I probably can't express it well, but his power and range and the way his body morphs can help Ganon make sheik pay because sheik is that perfect weight to get nailed and her range is just short enough for him to out range her. I'm not good with Ganon myself but just some opinions I have.

Tl; dr I'm ruining your thread so don't read this!
 

YvngFlameHoe

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Jan 19, 2015
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Dade County
I'm not an expert myself but the little I played on netplay Ganon vs sheik seems okay. If the sheik stayed grounded and tried like tilts I could like land f smashes or bair while she whiff'd. I probably can't express it well, but his power and range and the way his body morphs can help Ganon make sheik pay because sheik is that perfect weight to get nailed and her range is just short enough for him to out range her. I'm not good with Ganon myself but just some opinions I have.

Tl; dr I'm ruining your thread so don't read this!
you are a crazy person
 

Diosama

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You can jump out after 2 at low %. If he grabs you after, you'll usually only be hit by 1, unless he full hops and then djs for another one.
 

spider_sense

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More vods yo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMPIWCoknvw

This is the sheik i lost to in pools. Definitely could have one, but I flub way too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v06eWg0S0bk

This is the fox/marth I beat that formerly beat me.
Very nice set. The only thing I would say you really have to work on is making sure to wd oos and work on your finishers vs Fox, you seem to hesitate whenever Fox would illusion onto the stage. Jab/sh uair that ****. lol I like the usage of platforms as well, but you have to be cognisant of where Fox is, zone him in with fair and be sure it makes contact with fox, you'll be safe if you mash out jab but beware of the u-smash oos, which can be answered with a bair oos or up-b oos. Your shield drops are looking crisp but try to incorporate some NIL into the fray; it'll make your Ganon much faster off the platforms. Also, try to grab more since the followups on the spacies afterwards are usually guaranteed. You murdered that Marth tho; so beating that pretty boy's face in is a great accomplishment in itself.
 
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DCW

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Oct 18, 2015
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Georgia
More vods yo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMPIWCoknvw

This is the sheik i lost to in pools. Definitely could have one, but I flub way too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v06eWg0S0bk

This is the fox/marth I beat that formerly beat me.
For chaingrabbing Sheik, once she's at mid percent it's good to pummel at least once per throw. That increases the percent damage you inflict per regrab and gives a rhythm to the throwing. That rhythm helps me time my regrabs, which is important for the chaingrab on Sheik.

Man, that near-comeback in game two versus the Fox was inspiring. I need to learn from your neutral game vs Fox.

I'm not an expert myself but the little I played on netplay Ganon vs sheik seems okay. If the sheik stayed grounded and tried like tilts I could like land f smashes or bair while she whiff'd. I probably can't express it well, but his power and range and the way his body morphs can help Ganon make sheik pay because sheik is that perfect weight to get nailed and her range is just short enough for him to out range her. I'm not good with Ganon myself but just some opinions I have.
Netplay isn't a good indicator of matchups. Ganon does have tools versus Sheik, some of which you point out, but Sheik has better and stronger tools to use versus Ganon. For example:

https://vods.co/v/nvnzxd?position=34&list=Xu_r8D2XWh9TWv4lr4kRJgKgISdE0vydcld10AdpX3o
 
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X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
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Lowell, MA
Ty for the advice guys. Reason I don't pummel is some sheiks, like this guy, are good at mashing. Although technically I could pummel once and buffer dthrow, if I'm even a little off, they'll get out. My CG game was pretty ****ty that set, but I am capable of 0 deathing with it now, so it'll just get more consistent from here.

lol I like the usage of platforms as well, but you have to be cognisant of where Fox is, zone him in with fair and be sure it makes contact
Are you talking about using fair off platforms, or in general? And what did you mean by mash out jab?
 
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