Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[RedmanSSBM]

I'm finding it to be the opposite when I play Falcon and I've been playing Falcon for 3 and a half months now. Every time I want to combo with him I end up overextending or not extending enough and it annoys me to no end. It's almost like he's too fast for me. I actually prefer comboing with Ganon cause his combos just feel like they hit harder, while Falcon combos just feel standard.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

get your **** together fl streamers

 

[RedmanSSBM]

NaH just **** that guy who choked cause typically FL streamers are pretty nice (CFL and SFL weeklies are always streamed on polaritygg and versus gaming).

 

[X WaNtEd X]

idk man how many times have i come to this thread with linguini or spider sense talking about sets they played that weren't recorded. pisses me off

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo happy bday to half of the SFL ganon crew lol

 

[Linguini]

Thanks!

Yeah I suppose the stuff was just way to raw to be recorded lool. Was doing some new technology **** too

 

[spider_sense]

Welp, I did manage to go to Versus and actually got some matches recorded lol. I'm starting to become the king of flubs lmao. Very close set with Zidane's fox. I lost the set but I did a special combo for Pasta and my birthday lol. They should still be on the twitch/vsgaming. I wasn't really expecting to play smash (wanted to play League) so my heart wasn't really in this one but meh. I got 5th so I could have done much better, but I just wanted to chill with the SFL homies.

-ACE- SFL has found a new chant.

 

[-ACE-]

spider_sense **** yeah. All of Florida (not just Ganons) should get on that 20GC lmao. GOTEM CITY

Had to forfeit out of winners, because girlfriends have better neutral games than smashers. "I have everything I need and a ride, stay at versus as long as you want I really don't mind" IS TOO GOOD OF A BAIT NERF plZz. Knew I'd hear a bunch of **** if I stayed late lol.

In friendlies, battlefield. Low plat, outermost side. Fox, 0%. Land a stomp, he doesn't DI, misses tech, stomp again, he DI's left. I dashed left (toward him/center stage) for a second and jumped back to where I was, hard reading his techroll to the right. No DI, jump, reverse wf spike offstage LOL.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I feel like League just kills people's enthusiasm about Melee rofl.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

spider_sense **** yeah. All of Florida (not just Ganons) should get on that 20GC lmao. GOTEM CITY

Had to forfeit out of winners, because girlfriends have better neutral games than smashers. "I have everything I need and a ride, stay at versus as long as you want I really don't mind" IS TOO GOOD OF A BAIT NERF plZz. Knew I'd hear a bunch of **** if I stayed late lol.

In friendlies, battlefield. Low plat, outermost side. Fox, 0%. Land a stomp, he doesn't DI, misses tech, stomp again, he DI's left. I dashed left (toward him/center stage) for a second and jumped back to where I was, hard reading his techroll to the right. No DI, jump, reverse wf spike offstage LOL.

See now that's A good one, 20GC, i'm all for that

 

[-ACE-]

See now that's A good one, 20GC, i'm all for that

Well, that's a relief.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

http://ikneedata.com/calculator

This is insane.

 

[tm]

Sup guys. Been too long. Whats new

 

[X WaNtEd X]

So I'm ****ing around with this new app, and I'm finding some cool DI. You can pretty much use this site to figure out optimal DI off every possible attack at every percent.

One interesting thing I didn't know about is that the optimal DI off 3 of the 4 hitboxes of Marth's fair is at 316 degrees, assuming he's facing the right. This sends you quite a bit farther away than just DI away.

You can also figure out all kill percents for every move from every location.

But what I'm trying to make some DI trajectory pics to optimize locational usage of dthrow/uthrow on fast fallers.

What I need to know is at what vertical distance does Ganon throw from? I can approximate this, but I'd like to be exact if possible. And I can't seem to find anything on smashboards that accounts for all the character heights or what vertical distance grabs take place from.

Next, does anyone know what approximate, or better yet, exact percent ranges uthrow can chaingrab off no DI and slight DI away? There are resources on Ganon's dthrow chaingrab, but not so much on uthrow. I would like to test this in 20XX, but I only have one controller right now, so I can't dictate exactly where a CPU DIs.

With this information, we could figure out all the positions and percents on all platform stages on all fast fallers where uthrow will either lead to a regrab or a platform tech chase.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

http://ikneedata.com/calculator

This is insane.

Holy **** this is insane. So much information here that I can easily digest, especially on kill moves. I now know that I haven't really been DIing down and away for a lot of moves because holy crap does that DI send you at more favorable trajectories more than unfavorable.

Sup guys. Been too long. Whats new

Good to see you around again on the boards. Any updates on those MB Smash vids? I wanna see you wreck Sheik face.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I now know that I haven't really been DIing down and away for a lot of moves because holy crap does that DI send you at more favorable trajectories more than unfavorable.

Yessss. I started doing this kind of DI on things like Sheik's dthrow, ftilt, and other moves when I was really bad. So it feels good to see that many of the DI habits I formed early were good.

 

[tm]

RedmanSSBM yeah there are a few more, lemme go find them
here's the recent vids of me beating sheiks

vs Beach
vs Heartstrings
vs MB-Smash
vs MB-Smash

 

[X WaNtEd X]

http://ikneedata.com/calculator?ver...9t=0&9u=65.4&9v=65.4&9w=65.4&9x=65.4&9y=00000

Approximate zones where you can either regrab or platform tech chase falcon on BF. Red is uthrow. Yellow is dthrow. This is accounting for only if you're facing right. All DI on dthrow is inward. All DI on uthrow is away.

 

[-ACE-]

Damn I might take a look at that when I have access to a computer.

Also I just remembered I did another funny thing in pools Saturday. Amsah tech'd REST and punished with warlock punch. Lol.

 

[-ACE-]

RedmanSSBM yeah there are a few more, lemme go find them
here's the recent vids of me beating sheiks

vs Beach
vs Heartstrings
vs MB-Smash
vs MB-Smash

Getting better man. Good consistency on ledge techs, shield drops and chaingrabbing. I'm going to fully test dthrow to fsmash finisher sometime soon. I want to know exact percents for DI more so than kill percents. Having a good general idea just doesn't cut it nowadays

 

[PseudoTurtle]

RedmanSSBM yeah there are a few more, lemme go find them
here's the recent vids of me beating sheiks

vs Beach
vs Heartstrings
vs MB-Smash
vs MB-Smash

So much sheik. I feel bad for you, man lol. Saw your set with KJH by the way, you're getting closer and closer every time

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo Eddie J. Mutha****in Howells appearance at Rubicon on Saturday. I asked if he wanted to team. Wasn't planning on going, but this would be pretty legendary.

I'll keep y'all posted

 

[X WaNtEd X]

-ACE- already ahead of you

FSmash Kill Percents on Sheik

These are all unstale.
The height at which the FSmash hits Sheik off a dthrow is approximated.
The stages and DI with trajectories in multiple places indicate the kill percent depends on position.
To account for regular DI away as opposed to optimal DI away, add about 3%.

BF

Spoiler

Optimal DI Away
DI Up and Angled
No DI: Regular FSmash vs. Angled Up FSmash
DI Away Angled Up FSmash

Highest Percent: 104%
Lowest Percent: 62%
Highest Angled-Up Percent: 83%

FD

Spoiler

Optimal DI Away
DI Up and Angled
No DI: Regular FSmash vs. Angled Up FSmash
DI Away Angled Up FSmash

Highest Percent: 106%
Lowest Percent: 71%
Highest Angled-Up Percent: 80%

Yoshi's

Spoiler

For Yoshi's, I divided it into rough quadrants to account for its size.
Optimal DI Away
DI Up and Angled
No DI: Regular FSmash vs. Angled Up FSmash
DI Away Angled Up FSmash

Highest Percent: 84%
Lowest Percent: 53%
Highest Up-Angled Percent: 74%

FoD

Spoiler

I also divided FoD into quadrants.
Optimal DI Away
DI Up and Angled
No DI: Regular FSmash vs. Angled Up FSmash
DI Away Angled Up FSmash

Highest Percent: 101%
Lowest Percent: 63%
Highest Up-Angled Percent: 84%

DL

Spoiler

Optimal DI Away
DI Up and Angled
No DI: Regular FSmash vs. Angled Up FSmash
DI Away Angled Up FSmash

Highest Percent: 114%
Lowest Percent: 74%
Highest Up-Angled Percent: 96%

Pokemon

Spoiler

Optimal DI Away
DI Up and Angled
No DI: Regular FSmash vs. Angled Up FSmash
DI Away Angled Up FSmash

Highest Percent: 104%
Lowest Percent: 65%
Highest Up-Angled Percent: 78%

Using this, you can figure out when you should fsmash Sheik out of dthrow for the kill. The important thing to take out of this is that angling your fsmash can make a big difference! I didn't even test for how early it will kill on DI up. I imagine it will kill even faster than optimal DI away on the far side of the stage for regular fsmash in some cases. Regardless, if you're thinking about getting good at killing Sheik off dthrow with fsmash, practicing angling your fsmash up will, for most DI, save you time.

 

[Swagic]

So what I'm hearing is that the cg on Sheik is a legit 0-death on most stages. No edgeguard needed. Am I interpreting that right? And if I am, HOW DO I GET GRABS

 

[-ACE-]

No, usually you need an edgeguard, and a lot of times it'll require a small read. That's why fsmashing whenever possible is good, end it there. ASDI grab her tilts and jab, shieldgrab dash attack, stomp into grab, etc.

spider_sense ordered a cube. Now we just need a 1.02 disc lol

 

[RedmanSSBM]

brb gonna upangle all my fsmashes from here on out.

Any advantages to down-angling your fsmashes? Oh wait I can look this up myself.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Holy ****. So theoretically, if a Ganon gets super good with the CG, he can legitimately 0-death her. JC grab her from 0-55, dash grab for 56-100, and finish with fsmash at 80 on and stage but Dreamland, where you would do it at 95. You just gotta make sure that you up-angle that fsmash cause it really does kill a lot earlier. You'd fsmash between like 80-100 and after 100% you just bair, fair, upair and edgeguard. If there was a Ganon who was 90%+ consistent on the CG and finishing, then that'd be a deadly Ganon vs Sheik. Platforms of course will come into play, but I'm sure if you practice enough, you can get the percents where Sheik will land on the platform, and then just follow up from there.

I also looked at some Ganon v Puff stuff and found that if you space a low upair at 0% on a crouching puff and you are not fading in, then her fsmash right afterward (this is what Sprankles does a lot) will not hit you. Also she can't CC upair past 55% so keep that in mind. Crouching Puffs can be the bain of your existence but if you know how to hit her and still be safe then you should be fine.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

There's no advantages to down angled fsmash IMO.

And yes, this is a true 0 to death on all stages. The only factors we're not considering here are staleness, SDI, and ASDI.

 

[-ACE-]

Is regrabbing slight DI around 70+ really guaranteed? On any port? DI behind is the only one that's guaranteed to super high percents...

it's only possible for this to be a 100% legit 0-death on all legal stages if you can cg above 90.... And honestly fsmash whiffs a lot at high percents. I'm gonna test this myself soon enough

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I'm gonna say no, it's not. Not from personal experience, but just from looking at when sheik generally jumps out. Also, magus says it ends around 90% at that DI and even then it isn't truly guaranteed.

 

[tm]

FYI platforms force a 50/50 strong punish (regrab / fair), or a guaranteed uair (weak as ****, never going to kill). Typically I'll go for the fair if it's a stage with higher platforms or if I don't respect their timing / ability to get the tech (covers tech in place / no tech, and sometimes tech towards the nearest edge. It's possible that it can cover all 4 on yoshis / PS if they land on the side you're closest to, but I'm not sure). I'll go for the regrab (covers tech roll left or right, and tech in place -> shield <scrub option>) if I think they are going for the tech or if it's yoshis / PS because 1. it's easier, and 2. they'll be too low % to kill off fair. If it's someone that knows the MU I just mix it up.

I'm of the belief that you can definitely CG sheik at and even beyond 80% if you grab her feet/legs at the right point in her animation. Also the extra frame from being higher port is a big advantage IMO. I always RPS for it now

 

[-ACE-]

Also the extra frame from being higher port is a big advantage IMO. I always RPS for it now

Me too from now on. Every time someone (rare) takes port 4 I'm salty inside.

 

[Swagic]

Okay, now I have to ask, why does port priority make a difference?

 

[-ACE-]

Okay, now I have to ask, why does port priority make a difference?

Back in the day everyone wanted the lower port because you have priority in small situations like where you and your opponent grab each other at the same time. It was later discovered that having the higher port gives all your throws an extra frame of stun. So higher port is preferred for chaingrabbing as it's harder for them to do a move/jump out.

And even if your current character can't cg, if your opponent can cg you, you'd rather have the higher port to escape his throws a frame earlier.

 

[Swagic]

So the higher port would be better against Sheik?

 

[-ACE-]

So the higher port would be better against Sheik?

For certainly.

 

[Swagic]

Does taking 2 or 3 have any benefits whatsoever if 1 and 4 are open?

 

[-ACE-]

Does taking 2 or 3 have any benefits whatsoever if 1 and 4 are open?

If they have #1, it doesn't matter which one you have. I just take #4 to ensure I get throw follow-up advantage (if you get to the setup first).

The easiest benefit to see will probably be jumping out of sheik's cg sooner.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

I played Ganon again the other day, per request and I did alot of pivot nair's in neutral xD i'm too far gone

 

[-ACE-]

I played Ganon again the other day, per request and I did alot of pivot nair's in neutral xD i'm too far gone

Switch that to uair/bair and you're onto something lol.