Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo mean the tippy? trololol

You gotta come out to Chicago bro lol origin of the big dorf. Kels will have his revenge from pound 4, you mark my words
But for real, how did you beat that dude?? I've taken one tournament game off him out of probably like 20 lol

Bizz if you figure something out, lemme know lol. I've been trying to edge guard fox for years. Sometimes hanging on the ledge is cool depending on their position and distance from the stage- you're already edge hogging for a side b, and if they up b, you have time to ledge hop and then bair or straight ledge hop uair.

 

[Linguini]

Super perfect tippy can edgeguard anything. there's the normal perfect and then "ar" perfect that only tipman does lol. I can get it sometimes but you gotta be super precise with the spacing and timing. lol kels...typical campy mw fox

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

If I had any tech skill at all I would be the campiest Fox in existence.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Super perfect tippy can edgeguard anything. there's the normal perfect and then "ar" perfect that only tipman does lol. I can get it sometimes but you gotta be super precise with the spacing and timing. lol kels...typical campy mw fox

What's the ar tipman? Does it have to be 100% frame perfect or something? Because I've noticed that I can't always get the spike on a firefox/firebird if they sweet spot.

And yooooo it ain't just his fox that's campy. He'll time you out with Marth if he gets the opportunity

 

[RedmanSSBM]

What's the ar tipman? Does it have to be 100% frame perfect or something? Because I've noticed that I can't always get the spike on a firefox/firebird if they sweet spot.

And yooooo it ain't just his fox that's campy. He'll time you out with Marth if he gets the opportunity

I'm thinking the ar tipman (what does ar mean lol) is when Ganon's upair acts like Pikachu's when it spikes down. Getting that specific hitbox is hard, but really good.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yo, guys, I'm sick of ganons missing edge-guards against spacies who side-bs perfectly right under the ledge. Have any creative ideas?

Tipman spike obviously does not work unless if they get nervous and miss their perfect side-b recovery.

angled down ftilt. that always works again side-b. and if they go straight at you, you can just jab. any higher and you can pop a uair off.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

also looks like there's a 90% chance i'm going to fight pitt with some western new yorkers. should be hella fun.

 

[VegiLohrd]

So....Fight Pitt will be my first tournament....all I want is to get out of pools. That's all I want. Dark Lord help me. Any advice?

 

[-ACE-]

Yo, guys, I'm sick of ganons missing edge-guards against spacies who side-bs perfectly right under the ledge. Have any creative ideas?

Tipman spike obviously does not work unless if they get nervous and miss their perfect side-b recovery.

Tipman spike DOES work. You just have to time it right. Use it to cover the option of an immediate dj side-b, then l-cancel and low tilt, covers basically any up-b option if they don't side-b. If you hit them with the Tipman spike at low% and they up-b fast enough that an edge hog won't do the job, dropzone dair or fair him. If the low ftilt hits he's dead.

Only reverse Uair and Dair can hit a true sweet spot. Low ftilt, bair, dtilt, utilt, and even a well timed fair all hit very low, but cannot hit perfect sweet spot attempts (namely from a side-b, up-b is easier to hit).

When in doubt when timing the uair spike, go a bit early. Most people miss the spike in a sweet spot because they are a tad late. Half the times I land this, I feel like Ganon's foot is already there when falco attempts to grab the ledge (as opposed to Ganon's foot hitting falco just before he grabs). Food for thought. The uair is Ganon's best edgeguarding tool.

 

[Renth]

Playing against tipman is a unique experience i swear he has action replay for eyes.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

ar, skytch, is action replay. At least that's what I'm thinking because tipman used to play around with it and that helped to develop a lot of the current ganon metagame. Eddie is the granddaddy of old and smart ganons, whereas tipman really brought the character to his full potential... His old guide is still pretty relevant and has tons of great tricks- if you're on the edge for example

 

[tm]

A nice trick is edge-canceled tipman -> grab ledge. If they shorten the sweetspotted sideB, then you can still grab ledge first (as opposed to just doing the tipman, which would miss). Also it covers the upB onto stage or straight up (depending on the timing), and if they upB to ride the stage perfectly to ledge, you can reach ledge first (although sometimes the fire will hit you first... holding away might help?).

I'm not convinced that tipman will cover a perfectly sweetspotted sideB at any timing. Comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FavIrJvy1I
http://imageshack.com/a/img841/590/g2gx.png
I suppose it would be extremely close either way, so if perfected it should almost always do the job.

 

[Linguini]

AR means action replay...and players like m2k and tipman have it lolol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Ganondorf playes I have to see more videos of:










All of you. Especially the Florida boys.

 

[Linguini]

going to a big tourney next weekend. If I get top 3 I get to fly out to mlg....expect vids and salt

 

[Renth]

going to a big tourney next weekend. If I get top 3 I get to fly out to mlg....expect vids and salt

I'm busy that weekend now, trash em up. Would have loved to go

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Hey guys Ganondorf is on the front of my new t-shirt design.

http://www.redbubble.com/people/skytch/works/11841623-melee-mid-tier-t-shirt?c=232279-melee-t-shirts

 

[Renth]

I want .

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Linguini at mlg? hype.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Looking Heeelllaa forward to those vids, Linguini. I want to see you back in action.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

we need more ganons at the high levels so people will shut the **** up with their ganon ignorance. legit, about 50% of people i meet at tournaments believe ganon is a low tier character.

 

[dERO!]

T Shirt looks sweet !

 

[cptjiggles69]

we need more ganons at the high levels so people will shut the **** up with their ganon ignorance. legit, about 50% of people i meet at tournaments believe ganon is a low tier character.

Yeah i hear ya. That kind of range and power.. No way he is low tier. And his moves are a fair speed

 

[-ACE-]

Take advantage of their ignorance.

#1 Thing for Ganons... If the hit isn't there, don't go for it. We all have our own style and overall approach to the neutral game so I'm not going to attempt to explain specifics, but if people would opt for a shff waveland instead of an aerial they'd have to L-cancel (when you know you'll whiff or you don't feel absolutely safe), they'd leave a lot less openings for their opponents.

Safest aerials to "spam": running away sh bair, retreating sh uair (you can dj after doing a sh bair or uair (and waveland onto a lower platform afterward) so this helps a lot)), auto-canceled bair
Safe-ish: retreating fair, very well placed dairs, uair/bair in place.
not safe: fair/dair in place, any approaching aerial

We all know our aerials. I can't stress increasing ganon's ground game enough. tilts jabs and grabs win games bros

 

[Coastward]

got back from a tourney, best performance yet.

got 2nd in pools, which is sick.

ended up getting 13th since i choked in a falcon match, last match last stock. kept trying to trade moves which is stupid. realized how overpowered ccing falcon is. probably coulda got 9th or 7th depending if i was still in a good mindset.

also got a good bit of knowledge for dealing with shield pressure against spacies, definitely gonna put it to good use.

overall best tourney yet, hoping to take the arcadian tourney win soon thats happening in the GTA.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

hoping to take the arcadian tourney win soon thats happening in the GTA.

Sorry but I can't let that happen.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

One of my big goals with Ganon is to get a lot of grabs. Getting grabs means taking stocks most of the time. I love getting reads off of grabs.

Chaingrabbing is fun too.

 

[dERO!]

Take advantage of their ignorance.

#1 Thing for Ganons... If the hit isn't there, don't go for it. We all have our own style and overall approach to the neutral game so I'm not going to attempt to explain specifics, but if people would opt for a shff waveland instead of an aerial they'd have to L-cancel (when you know you'll whiff or you don't feel absolutely safe), they'd leave a lot less openings for their opponents.

Safest aerials to "spam": running away sh bair, retreating sh uair (you can dj after doing a sh bair or uair (and waveland onto a lower platform afterward) so this helps a lot)), auto-canceled bair
Safe-ish: retreating fair, very well placed dairs, uair/bair in place.
not safe: fair/dair in place, any approaching aerial

We all know our aerials. I can't stress increasing ganon's ground game enough. tilts jabs and grabs win games bros

Amen to all that, in your opinion, when do you choose to "pressure/spam" in short hops ? Maybe i'm wrong but in most cases i like full hops to keep me out of punishes after the first aerial hits, and gives time to see what the ants are trying to do to escape the lords hits, i guess

Also at what point do you know what grounded tool to use ? i don't have an accurate approach between crouches/hit before being hit/shielding/wd back

i won't quote your words, just want your advice, input

good posts

 

[X WaNtEd X]

god dammit i wish i was at fight pitt. rides got conflicted last minute. **** looked really funny.

 

[-ACE-]

Depends on the matchup.... sh and fj aerials both have their place. Full hops will land you in some trouble against falcon for example. As far as ground moves... well timed ftilts and jabs will beat/trade with any approach, you just have to remember not to spam the ftilt (or the jab really) as it is very punishable... throw it out there occasionally when you think you have a read on his approach and/or when you happen to be the perfect distance away for proper spacing. It's safer versus slower characters obviously. Against fox/falco, and even falcon, jabs become slightly more important as you don't always have time for an ftilt. Tilts still **** though. CC'ing into jab or low ftilt is great. And shielding the approach and rolling when it's appropriate. Go with what the situation calls for, since you don't always have the option of controlling the space. Try not to force anything that isn't spaced well.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Take advantage of their ignorance.

#1 Thing for Ganons... If the hit isn't there, don't go for it. We all have our own style and overall approach to the neutral game so I'm not going to attempt to explain specifics, but if people would opt for a shff waveland instead of an aerial they'd have to L-cancel (when you know you'll whiff or you don't feel absolutely safe), they'd leave a lot less openings for their opponents.

Safest aerials to "spam": running away sh bair, retreating sh uair (you can dj after doing a sh bair or uair (and waveland onto a lower platform afterward) so this helps a lot)), auto-canceled bair
Safe-ish: retreating fair, very well placed dairs, uair/bair in place.
not safe: fair/dair in place, any approaching aerial

We all know our aerials. I can't stress increasing ganon's ground game enough. tilts jabs and grabs win games bros

Two questions:

1. How do you sh dj uair? I can do it with bair, but I have tried it with uair and can't do it

2. How do you sh uair and wd? I've seen you do it, but I can't get it. What's the timing?

 

[tm]

god dammit i wish i was at fight pitt. rides got conflicted last minute. **** looked really funny.

Fight Pitt 4 was the jankiest tournament of my life

 

[tm]

Two questions:

1. How do you sh dj uair? I can do it with bair, but I have tried it with uair and can't do it

2. How do you sh uair and wd? I've seen you do it, but I can't get it. What's the timing?

1. you just have to uair as soon as you leave the ground for the SH. There's enough time to DJ before you hit the ground again.
2. I'm pretty sure you can only do this when you ground you land (to waveland) on is below the elevation at which you started the jump. Maybe it's possible to do on a flat surface, but I haven't been able to do it in that circumstance


EDIT: Ace, and any others,
any tips on how to bait an approach from the opponent (safely)? Namely spacies

 

[X WaNtEd X]

1. you just have to uair as soon as you leave the ground for the SH. There's enough time to DJ before you hit the ground again.
2. I'm pretty sure you can only do this when you ground you land (to waveland) on is below the elevation at which you started the jump. Maybe it's possible to do on a flat surface, but I haven't been able to do it in that circumstance


EDIT: Ace, and any others,
any tips on how to bait an approach from the opponent (safely)? Namely spacies

1. I feel like I am, but maybe I'm just not fast enough. Maybe I should start using the claw grip or something.
2. So basically you can only do it on yoshi's. Interesting.

 

[-ACE-]

Yes, if you are uairing as soon as possible you will be able to dj afterward. If you can sh uair (bair works too), dj waveland on one of the platforms on DL64 you're doing it right. The timing window is easier on the waveland at PS/BF/YS since the platforms are lower but you still have to learn to hit uair on the first available frame.

Baiting approaches from opponents...
Full hop aerials.... input the aerial as soon as you've held jump long enough to make it a full jump. Once they see you jump and fair, or especially dair, most people think that you're about land and they'll be able to punish your lag... they don't know that you can dj after the dair is over but before you've hit the ground and punish/evade as necessary.

Mixing up platform/edge work.... lots of players react as soon as they see ganon jump for a platform. You can bait stuff by jumping up to a platform and wavelanding in place, for example. If they were expecting an immediate waveland > aerial approach and covered that option, you can now run off or drop through the platform and punish. Same thing with them expecting a ledgedash... ledgehop and fair, invincible jab, grab, etc. If they are expecting the ledge dash. Then when they start crowding the edge more mix in some rolls/RLD/run off dj bair's, etc.

Shorthop aerials also... the retreating uair can get people to approach in the same sense as the fulljump aerials can, then you have the dj + punishment option if they go in.

Upsmash... people still overestimate the cooldown time and approach trying to punish it, and they eat your jab.

Edge cancels... don't get repetitive or you'll lose your ability to surprise people but obviously they see a seemingly poorly spaced attack and then BOOM. got em.

Basically any well placed aerial can bait also. You need to be aware of your opponent's options in any given situation, so that you have an idea of what's safe and what isn't. Throw stuff out that is right on the line of being punishable, and see when he himself draws the line and tries to go in and take advantage of what he thinks is a free hit. Stuff that normally wouldn't be safe at all (but it is safe, because they're in lag or something) really tends to bring them in.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

To extend on what ACE said, you can also do risky baits by wavedashing in and fsmashing. The drawback from the fmash may throw off the spacing your opponent intended, and you get a nice fsmash hit. Same thing goes for side-b as well. I also think an empty short hop into a reverse waveland can bait your opponent to approach, or you can run away short-hop and then reverse waveland into an unexpected grab. Doing tomahawks like that, I think, would be really cool. It'd be even cooler if you could do a full hop dair to bait them in their shield, then fast-fall waveland to grab them.

Loving these ideas.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Tipman spike DOES work. You just have to time it right. Use it to cover the option of an immediate dj side-b, then l-cancel and low tilt, covers basically any up-b option if they don't side-b. If you hit them with the Tipman spike at low% and they up-b fast enough that an edge hog won't do the job, dropzone dair or fair him. If the low ftilt hits he's dead.

Only reverse Uair and Dair can hit a true sweet spot. Low ftilt, bair, dtilt, utilt, and even a well timed fair all hit very low, but cannot hit perfect sweet spot attempts (namely from a side-b, up-b is easier to hit).

When in doubt when timing the uair spike, go a bit early. Most people miss the spike in a sweet spot because they are a tad late. Half the times I land this, I feel like Ganon's foot is already there when falco attempts to grab the ledge (as opposed to Ganon's foot hitting falco just before he grabs). Food for thought. The uair is Ganon's best edgeguarding tool.

Frame data suggests that perfect side-b recovery goes way below the hitbox of u-air. Trust me, I've been trying the same thing against Fiction for many years, and it's super rare to get the tipman edgeguard.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

We need to get either Tipman or Magus here to figure this one out.

 

[-ACE-]

I'd like to see this frame data.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo bizz, nice job taking that tournament! Saw your facebook post haha. Any vids/notable mentions?