Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

someone bring me some florida water, that must be what gives you the triforce of power.

florida water is actually disgusting. when you come here and smell sulfur everywhere, you'll know why.

ranch is my new apprentice since my other ganondorf player apprentice decided to switch to fox. been teaching him things here and there. he's gonna turn heads soon.

 

[Renth]

STREAMING MELEE

www.twitch.tv/renth

 

[Renth]

Sorry double post

 

[Coastward]

having thoughts about dropping ganon for a bit.

i feel like he's holding me back in terms of technicality and decision making. i think i could learn more if i start playing more than just ganon.

feels.

 

[Upke]

Yo damn, look at Ranch going in. I feel like I probably Ganon ditto'd him at least once, so I'm going to say I trained him.

 

[Coastward]

yo guys, hosting mlg smash tourney in canada may 10-11. come. or else.

https://www.facebook.com/events/230161173856863/?context=create#

 

[Superspright]

Ganondorf is always evolving. You shouldn't give him up. It's like training and hitting a plateau. You should probably explore older options, or try to find new ones before you give up so.

 

[Coastward]

to all you florida ganons, do you know of a guy named prof down there?

hes one of my buddies who plays mewtwo(?). tell me how bad he is if youve played him.

 

[Renth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVAeMdLTGn4&feature=youtu.be

Played a bunch of friendlies with uber ice today, we decided to record a handful of them. More to come in the future vs. more amazing players.

The biggest thing you need to realize honestly is that it's a match of pure punishment. If you land a fair keep in mind NANA DOES NOT TECH STAY ON THAT HOE LIKE SHE OWE YOU MONEY.

Do everything in your power to not get grabbed. The name of the game is Bait and wait. Ice Climbers will use their superior wave dash speed to get in and out of your aerials try your best not to let yourself open with a big enough window for them to get inside of you.

PRESSURE IS KEY. The match up is a back and fourth struggle. Basically, when Uber Ice and I are playing. If he feels helpless I played well, If I felt helpless he played well. It's a match up of pure punish that both sides flourish at. Edge guarding (tho i ****ed it up a lot) Is very easy. Do not do anything flashy AT ALL seriously stand still. PoPo will side b to you just bait it out and f air / b air it. I unfortunately have way too much fun with movement and momentum abilities I often let easy edge guards/drop a lot of easy hits. (DO NOT BUILD THIS HABIT) It's slowly being beaten out of me.

Let me drop a few more tips:

Whenever PoPO down throws you and Nana down airs, the BEST way out if to Smash DI down and away behind Popo. As soon as Nana hits you with the D air try your damnedest to get the smash DI down and away.

From there you can buffer a roll, double jump, up b ect. Just a warning this takes a lot of practice and even when you understand how it works it is still Very difficult to achieve consistently.

Not much else to say, watch enjoy. Uber Ice is godlike.

 

[tm]

dropping mad knowledge. Thanks for posting

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

to all you florida ganons, do you know of a guy named prof down there?

hes one of my buddies who plays mewtwo(?). tell me how bad he is if youve played him.

i know him. he's not bad, but my mewtwo is better.

also if you drop the dark lord i don't know you anymore.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Did someone say Mewtwo?

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

you guys don't even know. my mewtwo is sick.

@ Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/502177819

2:30:45 watch that match. try to not have a heart attack.

 

[Renth]

I begin Ice Climber discussion |
Ganon forums become a hey I play mewtwo thread.

/slits wrist.

;

Learn as many nana mechanics as you can. The more you know the better you will do at the match up a few examples:

If you are by the ledge and Nana grabs you. She will ALWAYS forward throw you off the stage that's why you only see Ice Climber hand off combos in that position. As I mentioned earlier she does not tech so If you land a f air on both Popo/Nana a follow up f air on Nana is guaranteed. If they are on a platform above you let's say yoshi's at low percentage you can up air chain Nana zero to death fairly easily. You have to keep your eye on Popo at ALL times whilst killing Nana. Focus Nana is a key element to the match up but you need to do a lot of delayed aerials, empty jumps and baits for popo because that little douche is a lot faster than you think he is. He will try to interrupt you with quick wave dash/smashes or grabs.

Popo can SOLO chain grab you from 0-40% if you hit Nana away and are fighting Popo. He can chain grab you and wait for her to get back to him. If you are low percentage and you feel like you have advantage cause Nana is not in a favorable position it can come back to bite you on the ass.

Also, a key note to keep in your mind is. A good Ice Climber player will always have a superior Sopo game to whenever he has Nana with him. When people understand the match up a lot of ice climber players play without nana cause she's dead a lot of the time. Whenever I kill his Nana I feel like his actual game begins, whenever nana is alive he just wants to do grab/death combos. Basically, do not sleep on Sopo

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

you guys don't even know. my mewtwo is sick.

@ Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/502177819

2:30:45 watch that match. try to not have a heart attack.

Yuck doubles

I kept seeing you do stuff and thinking "Why didn't he hover/teleport to continue the combo?" and then I remembered that it wasn't PM lol

I begin Ice Climber discussion |
Ganon forums become a hey I play mewtwo thread.

/slits wrist.

 

[Coastward]

I begin Ice Climber discussion |
Ganon forums become a hey I play mewtwo thread.

/slits wrist.

;

Learn as many nana mechanics as you can. The more you know the better you will do at the match up a few examples:

If you are by the ledge and Nana grabs you. She will ALWAYS forward throw you off the stage that's why you only see Ice Climber hand off combos in that position. As I mentioned earlier she does not tech so If you land a f air on both Popo/Nana a follow up f air on Nana is guaranteed. If they are on a platform above you let's say yoshi's at low percentage you can up air chain Nana zero to death fairly easily. You have to keep your eye on Popo at ALL times whilst killing Nana. Focus Nana is a key element to the match up but you need to do a lot of delayed aerials, empty jumps and baits for popo because that little douche is a lot faster than you think he is. He will try to interrupt you with quick wave dash/smashes or grabs.

Popo can SOLO chain grab you from 0-40% if you hit Nana away and are fighting Popo. He can chain grab you and wait for her to get back to him. If you are low percentage and you feel like you have advantage cause Nana is not in a favorable position it can come back to bite you on the ***.

Also, a key note to keep in your mind is. A good Ice Climber player will always have a superior Sopo game to whenever he has Nana with him. When people understand the match up a lot of ice climber players play without nana cause she's dead a lot of the time. Whenever I kill his Nana I feel like his actual game begins, whenever nana is alive he just wants to do grab/death combos. Basically, do not sleep on Sopo

so much knowledge, into the book it goes.

 

[Renth]

Renth vs. RockCrock Ganon Dittos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08LMZ9ezSz0

He read/caught my double jump MANY times. I'll watch out for that in the future.


The long and short | Ganon Dittos.

It's another zoning match up ladies and gentlemen!

You spend the entire match up fishing for that one good hit, you follow up like you haven't eaten for a week and there is a giant tray of *insert food you love here* just on the other side of the person you are punching the living **** out of. It's a battle of out smarting/out playing your opponent. The less the person you are playing against knows your specific play style the better in this one (I mean.. that can be said all the time but.. Ganon dttos are harsh and if your opponent knows your habits/styles/approaches/mind games ect. then you are one cooked goose) I mean honestly, you will be Ganondorfs dinner he will eat you without a second thought do not get eaten my friends!

Which leads me to a short off topic story, I play with UberIce a lot. He and I go to tournaments and I know he is a strong player, I make it a point to only warm up with him before the event starts. Let's face it friends, Ganondorf has got a lot of gimmicks in his general game play. The less Marthfan1337 and FireFoxMasterSniper are comfortable/familiar with these "tricks" and general Ganondorf play the more chances you have to catch them by surprise in the future.

If you KNOW the other Ganondorf is going to approach with an f air (poorly spaced just throwing it in there hoping.) A short hop up air will beat it every time, back air will also win in this situation. Side b is risky but can lead to good follow ups, down smash is another risky option but the risk is often worth the reward. It all leads to that one good hit, do whatever you have to do SAFELY get that opening shot and take full advantage. Grabs ; I feel are under utilized in this match up. seriously... Grabs dominate Ganondorf dittos. They are easy to follow up, you can CHAIN GRAB, and it helps control your oppoent.

KEY NOTE :

Ganondorf has a phenominal roll trying to punish it is hard. The only time you should try to punish it is if the person you're playing has a "tell" a habit you've noticed in a situation and then is one of the only times it's worth trying to hit. A lot of times rolls against Ganondorf punish attempts happen and they get counter hit/shield grabbed for it.

Become confident with your edge guarding abilities seriously. Don't be a ****** like me and waveland all over the universe once your opponent is off stage. Grab the damn ledge, reverse up air, or whatever aerial you like and just hit him. This match up one where one HIT can change an entire match, It is by far the most frequent match where I see someone about to get 4 stocked be able to come back and win the match.



Operation revive ganon boards is a go ;

This is where all the lurkers come out and start discussing stuff about stuff.

Yes.

I mean you..

Reading this right now.

I'm going to post more sets/discuss match ups as I get the videos recorded.

So please

I encourage you and everyone else.

JOIN IN THE FUN

 

[tm]

Loving these posts. You aren't worried that you're going to give me too much advice for next time we play?

 

[Renth]

Loving these posts. You aren't worried that you're going to give me too much advice for next time we play?

I am far from selfish when it comes to helping others improve. I've conquered many walls and I still have many to fight my way through. If I can help you or anyone else even the smallest amount to get to your next level of game play then I will be happy.

If you beat me using information I have given you then I have done my job correctly. I want everyone to be the best they can be and if you defeat me then you deserve it well played. I've never been a fan of the Ganondorf ditto but I understand it (even If I do dumb things which I often call myself out for) but that is neither here nor there.

My existence in this thread is to help you rise to your next level. Hopefully through the text I am writing it gives me opportunity to reflect and think more deeply about what I am trying to get across. Thus helping myself reach a higher understanding.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

damn it mark. you're going to make me go out and buy a capture card now so i can make some sick write-ups about my matches.

 

[Laharl's_Wrath]

very appreciative of these posts, not much else I can say though

 

[Renth]

damn it mark. you're going to make me go out and buy a capture card now so i can make some sick write-ups about my matches.

You will be a part of these in the near future. I need a bowser break down

Also I am in the process of making my own thread where all of this stuff will be easier to locate, be discussed and whatever.

 

[Renth]

http://smashboards.com/threads/motivation-and-education-renth-leads-a-hand.350047/

 

[tm]

This is great, and that thread looks promising. You can be sure that I'll read all of it... and contribute where I feel that I have lesser-known advice (hopefully more as I develop). I'll be more likely to ask questions whose answers would be helpful. I also dabble in %s and situational specifics, which a lot of people deem unworthy of discussion / memorization, but I feel that every little bit helps when you're playing ganon.

Let the new-age begin

 

[Renth]

This is great, and that thread looks promising. You can be sure that I'll read all of it... and contribute where I feel that I have lesser-known advice (hopefully more as I develop). I'll be more likely to ask questions whose answers would be helpful. I also dabble in %s and situational specifics, which a lot of people deem unworthy of discussion / memorization, but I feel that every little bit helps when you're playing ganon.

Let the new-age begin

I hadn't thought to go that deep. I just want everyone to have a basic idea of how each match up works to be some what familiar with what the opponent is looking for and a decent understanding of how to handle the **** storm you are about to walk into for picking this character in the first place.

 

[tm]

Something you could add to your write ups:

What are the best punishes from a grab (depending on % and DI) ?

Obviously in the ditto the chaingrab is your best option (until 67%), but then...?
My guess would be dthrow -> bair / fair depending on DI (just try to setup an edgeguard), but I doubt the fair is a true combo. If the opponent DIs away and is fast enough to DJ /airdodge out, then turn around bair is probably the best bet (uair if you are prone to mess up the turnaround).

But what about ICs?

There is probably a good answer for each char based on their weight. Just something to think about because it's important to capitalize as hard as possible whenever ganon can get a precious grab.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

all i know is

you guys need to grab peach more in singles.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

http://shoryuken.com/2014/03/12/super-smash-bros-melee-joins-the-evo-2014-roster/

MELEE AT EVO 2014! I EXPECT TO SEE ALL OF MY GANONDORF BRETHREN PRESENT AT THIS GRAND SPECTACLE OF A TOURNAMENT.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Been practicing the odd technique I found for shield dropping. I don't know if I'd even call it a shield drop because it basically is a way for me to just drop through the platform even faster from a neutral standing position without entering my shield. Of course I use the normal method of finding a spot around 45 degrees down and going to it repeatedly in shield to drop from my shield when the situation calls for it.

What I do is press down and then press my shield really quick, almost instantaneously after. It works really well with dropping bairs and uairs for the most part. And it's just must faster. If you guys don't already do this, it's a very helpful technical skill that isn't that hard to learn.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Put Melee in my Wii for the first time in months today. Gotta practice for MLG qualifier!!

Still incapable of doing anything technical, but w/e I don't need good tech skill to fair people in the face.

 

[Renth]

Something you could add to your write ups:

What are the best punishes from a grab (depending on % and DI) ?

Obviously in the ditto the chaingrab is your best option (until 67%), but then...?
My guess would be dthrow -> bair / fair depending on DI (just try to setup an edgeguard), but I doubt the fair is a true combo. If the opponent DIs away and is fast enough to DJ /airdodge out, then turn around bair is probably the best bet (uair if you are prone to mess up the turnaround).

But what about ICs?

There is probably a good answer for each char based on their weight. Just something to think about because it's important to capitalize as hard as possible whenever ganon can get a precious grab.

I just down throw and follow DI. t.t

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Put Melee in my Wii for the first time in months today. Gotta practice for MLG qualifier!!

Still incapable of doing anything technical, but w/e I don't need good tech skill to fair people in the face.

it's true. but you do need spacing and consistency. it's the little things that matter.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

it's true. but you do need spacing and consistency. it's the little things that matter.

I play Jigglypuff in Brawl, spacing is the only thing I can do

 

[Coastward]

ok i've been trying to do something with ganon that i pulled off on either raynEX or loki a while back at a tournament., but i dont know if it was a fluke or not.

we were playing ganon dittos on FoD or FD, i forget. i knocked them off stage, and they decided to recover low. so i decided to just go for a dropzone fair.
what ended up happening was i did some sort of pivot right at the ledge, and i somehow managed to do a reverse bair. it looked cool as **** and people got hype.

what sucks is i cant do it anymore, i dont know whether or not my technical skillcap is limiting me, or if it was some kind of fluke. hopefully i can get the video of it soon.

 

[Superspright]

You can use the momentum of a waveland or wavedash to keep you sliding off if you hold the opposite direction you are going--for a single frame you'll turn around, but also still be sliding and get that turn around bair. It's easier to do when wavelanding on platforms. Try maximum waveland and then hold the opposite direction you went to. The ledge should cancel your wavedash but let you turn around and fall off backwards. You have to be holding the opposite direction, or rapidly moonwalk before you reach it. It's harder to do the perfect spacing/timing version of it, but it looks a lot cleaner. If you're good at it you can instant ledge grab from a wavedash/waveland toward your opponent [this is a good mix up because most opponents expect an aerial and may try to sweet spot ledge as a result], or quickly race across platforms and turn around really fast for a ledge-grab. I do this sometimes when my opponent may reach the ledge sooner than me.

Also, you have to be near the very end of your wavedash/waveland to do this. I haven't been able to do it from arbitrary distances or lengths. Maybe with impeccable timing I could, or with reallly rapid moonwalks but overall it doesn't seem to work. On Battlefield it's best to start the waveland at either side, but at least 1/5 of the way in. It's right before or on the first notch where the platform becomes more trapezoidal. Keep trying until you figure it out. I can do it if I warm it up, but it's no where near tournament consistency. I wonder if it will ever be.

 

[tm]

Superspright explained it pretty well. It's basically a PC drop, except from sliding instead of from walking (and ganon can't PC drop as far as I know).

Evo hype! I won't be there but I'll be watching.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Evo hype! I won't be there but I'll be watching.

uhhhhh why the hell not

also superspright you better be at one of these huge ass tournaments this year.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

uhhhhh why the hell not

also superspright you better be at one of these huge *** tournaments this year.

It was definitely not me who sad that, you're pretty bad at quoting

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

LMAO what the **** smashboards. i hate this new website.

 

[Coastward]

idk if im gonna be able to reach evo or mlg, no $$$ for the, at the moment. but im definitely reaching CEO.