Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Divinokage]

Tipman Special that they Dair before they can roll? Sorry but that's the improved kage combo. =)

 

[foxyisemo]

I think this might just be the original virusbluemage.

 

[foxyisemo]

Have you guys ever heard of the Dorsey Combo?

It's when you bthrow someone off-stage and then dair spike them. I invented it back in 2003.

 

[Superspright]

Tipman Special that they Dair before they can roll? Sorry but that's the improved kage combo. =)

I don't think you understand what I meant. They cannot tech. You are hitting them before they hit the ground but they pop back up again because the game thinks they were standing instead of flagged for being in the air and thus getting meteored but sent back up instead. It's very strange and I can't do it with any level of consistency like Tipman could.

If roll = tech in your mind then you're right...but I think you mean they are either laying on the ground or they miss a tech. I am talking about they are in the air still but get sent back up instead without getting even the option to tech. It's very hard to do and it has to be done near frame perfect.

 

[Renth]

Kage knows what it is, i've talked to him about it before.

Chaddd's combo video had him doing it like ten? times in a row at the start of it.

 

[Superspright]

Kage knows what it is, i've talked to him about it before.

Chaddd's combo video had him doing it like ten? times in a row at the start of it.

Can I see that video? I must not have seen it. Tipman used to do this stuff back in like ~2003 I heard.

 

[Renth]

Can I see that video? I must not have seen it. Tipman used to do this stuff back in like ~2003 I heard.

I tried to find it to link it,, the video is "unavailable" if you go to the youtube link someone removed it

 

[tm]

In what situation can ganon dair someone and true combo 2nd dair them before they hit the ground (or on the exact frame)? I imagine they would have to be floaty at low %, and you would have to jump off of a platform before the first dair, fastfall it, and barely get the second off before hitting the ground. Or something close to this scenario

EDIT: oops, didn't understand that the first dair was on the ground.

 

[Divinokage]

I don't think you understand what I meant. They cannot tech. You are hitting them before they hit the ground but they pop back up again because the game thinks they were standing instead of flagged for being in the air and thus getting meteored.

If roll = tech in your mind then you're right...but I think you mean they are either laying on the ground or they miss a tech. I am talking about they are in the air still but get sent back up instead without getting even the option to tech. It's very hard to do and it has to be done near frame perfect.

Umm.. I do this all the time when the opportunity is there, it's amazing. It only works if the opponent failed to tech which is why it's the Improved Kage combo. My regular combo was just downthrow ->> jab (no tech) to Fair but I discovered that when you do Dair with a good timing then they pop back up hence why it's the improved combo. Even the commentators knows this, and the other thing I have it named is the Dair through shield on the feet and then shield stabbing became a part of many players game because the thought of actually going for things like that weren't really thought of back in the day. Exploiting hitboxes to go through defenses.. it's quite something.

 

[Superspright]

I imagine he was doing it on another Ganon though since his stage hurtboxes are so big. Are you sure we're talking about the same thing? Character is still aerial but goes back up with no chance to tech.

@Kage It's not a failed tech. No offense when I say this: you don't know what I am talking about. Just read it again please. Maybe I need to clarify.

 

[Renth]

I'll let it go, cause i've complained about it before but I can look up 07 videos of "kage special" I've been doing it a long time

YOU CAN HAVE IT THO FUUUUUUUUUU

-
On that note, I think Ganon in general is just good at shield stabbing.

 

[Divinokage]

I imagine he was doing it on another Ganon though since his stage hurtboxes are so big. Are you sure we're talking about the same thing? Character is still aerial but goes back up with no chance to tech.

@Kage It's not a failed tech. No offense when I say this: you don't know what I am talking about. Just read it again please. Maybe I need to clarify.

Ya but there are no frames where you can actually combo something into dair where they would pop back up like that. They have to have failed their tech because the pop-up happens before they have a choice of normal get up or rolling.

 

[Superspright]

Ya but there are no frames where you can actually combo something into dair where they would pop back up like that. They have to have failed their tech because the pop-up happens before they have a choice of normal get up or rolling.

First dair pops them up as they are descending you plant the second one on them the frame before the tech-bounce and they end up going up again...this seems to only work when they are in special fall.

My hypothesis is that stage contact boxes are checked first I am assuming before stage hurtboxes and thusly it goes "Oh where is this character? Oh they have to be standing because their stage contact box is touching so up you go!" It doesn't see that the character hasn't really hit the ground yet...it doesn't check for that. It's just the melee engine being weird but it does work and they have no option from it aside from getting hit. It's a free ~40% from just the dairs...it's a combo to death if done perfectly.

Tipman invented it a long long long time ago. He is the only Ganon I've heard of to use it. My friend used to tell me all about the 'double dair' he'd do on people. I didn't believe him until I started experimenting and I found it. At first I thought he meant an edge-canceled dair into another dair immediately but it was this tech-glitch instead.

@Renth What exactly makes Ganon good at shield stabbing? I always felt he was mediocre at it.

 

[Divinokage]

A tech-glitch? Then that kind of technique should be able to be done by all characters that has a dair that can pop-up, are you absolutely sure its not because they failed to tech it or perhaps.. the stun isn't enough at 0% so they land straight instead of the ground? It would seem like no one in the world would be using this, I want proof.

 

[Superspright]

A tech-glitch? Then that kind of technique should be able to be done by all characters that has a dair that can pop-up, are you absolutely sure its not because they failed to tech it or perhaps.. the stun isn't enough at 0% so they land straight instead of the ground? It would seem like no one in the world would be using this, I want proof.

I have a strong feeling this is known but not exploited--perhaps it's not something one can do consistently. I know what you're saying about the last part--like they CC the dair and stay grounded? I know I didn't see missed tech animation [that green sunburst]. I noticed when I do it they would snap back to the stage as if they were standing then bounce back up. I only saw it for a few frames and I have a very hard time replicating it but I have done it on a Peach before. I was pretty ecstatic when I did it. As soon as I saw it I knew it was the thing that Tipman was doing to my friends.

This is probably known though...if you take two Ganons and have one jump and the other dair you'll see that sometimes when the Ganon is airborne he still bounces on the stage. I think that's an aspect of it. I really wish I could show you a video or something. I've done it a few times like I described just now, but also from a dair followed by another dair which instead of giving them an option to tech they just went straight back up. I think that it's because of forbidden DI they can't tech it. I've definitely witnessed this stuff. It's very hard to expound something visual.

To clarify even further:

It goes dair->they go into special fall and start to tumble back down->before they hit the stage and tech [probably the frame before] you dair again->instead of hitting the stage and getting a tech option they bounce up as if they were standing. This peculiarity is what fascinates me.

 

[foxyisemo]

You can't find one video on youtube that shows it? lol.

ps. you are bad

 

[Renth]

I messaged Chaddd and Tipman, I'll see if either of them stop by they might be able to shed light on whatever. The start of Chaddd's combo video had him doing the stomps in stamina mode from zero to death.

 

[Superspright]

You can't find one video on youtube that shows it? lol.

ps. you are bad

I can't find the 'kage special' either. Youtube has billions of videos...Renth can't find it either...lol

 

[Renth]

I can't find the 'kage special' either. Youtube has billions of videos...Renth can't find it either...lol

Kage special is something i've done for like ever but I don't feel like digging through youtube to find it. Someone shields their feet are poking out of the bottom. You stomp on top of them the d air goes through. There's really nothing special about it but when the commentators see it KAGE SPECIALLLLLL HAHHAHEHHEURHHURUHRHUR

 

[Divinokage]

Ya but the special got me wins... I could link it if you REALLLLYYY want... lol.

 

[Superspright]

I've been doing that for a bit, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't steal it from Kage. I tend to aim for ankles after I hit their shield a bit. The Kage Special will be pretty hard to pull off on a Falco or any other character with a highly tiltable shield. Hell--light shield throws a wrench in it. Ganon is just not good on shield at all, ever. I feel like people could bait your dair by leaving their ankles out then tilting the shield. Crap I may have even seen that before.

 

[Divinokage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vrOA6Fc0kGg#t=298 There you go.. Muahahaha!

 

[Superspright]

That was beautifully executed. You really had to hit the very back of her ankle there. Did you read that roll?

 

[-ACE-]

I think we all think. It's just that I think I know what I am talking about. I know the difference between a Ganon who can waveland and a Ganon who can waveland instant pivot ledge grab. Or the difference between a Ganon who can do shielddrops and one who can't. Or a Ganon who dairs someone and dairs them again on the frame before their tech so they pop back up [That's a tipman special]. etc.

Unfortunately I studied this game pretty intensely and practiced my tech skill until the point I have better tech skill than you. You're a stronger player than me by far though. Even Bizzaro doesn't do some of the stuff I do probably for good reasons, but still.

[EDIT] Spelling

Despite being a ******** ********* piece of ***** *** **** ****** *****, you're pretty entertaining.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL I can only hope there's more where this gem came from

 

[Divinokage]

Ya I guess but id say I read the shield more than the roll, it just so happened she was there so I took the opportunity.

 

[Superspright]

Despite being a ******** ********* piece of ***** *** **** ****** *****, you're pretty entertaining.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL I can only hope there's more where this gem came from

You truly are a man of diminutive ****.

 

[Renth]

RockCrock tells me Dorsey, Ace? you guys are coming to visit us this weekend?

 

[foxyisemo]

I am leaving for florida early tomorrow morning.. Coming into town wednesday evening. Ace will show up 5 days behind me. This is my first big job in this company, I'll be busy learning the ropes/safety orientation/etc. for awhile, but me and him will be there for about 3 months. Can't plan anything yet, but we will definitely smash and I can't wait.

 

[tm]

Something about Florida. Must be the Ganon state

 

[Renth]

I am leaving for florida early tomorrow morning.. Coming into town wednesday evening. Ace will show up 5 days behind me. This is my first big job in this company, I'll be busy learning the ropes/safety orientation/etc. for awhile, but me and him will be there for about 3 months. Can't plan anything yet, but we will definitely smash and I can't wait.

I'm leaving for PA on the 21st.

 

[-ACE-]

renth i will try to hit you up before you're gone. I will be in FL on the 10th or 11th, then I have time off the 18th to the 1st and I'm not leaving FL. During that time I'm scheduling an appointment at lashway motorsports in fort Lauderdale to beef up the engine in my truck, trying to smash, fish with some friends in Melbourne, visit a friend in Jupiter, and visit my dad in Miami. I'll try to make it all work out in the 2 weeks. If the appointment for my truck is going to take more than 2 days I'll get a rental car.

Getting a new camshaft and beefing up all the internals on my 5.3L v8....


Gonna sound like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2-2z-7FW3k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

and run like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP0lf6hwU_U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

looking forward to this. first warm winter of my life comin up!

edit: superspright: ***** ******* *** ******* **** ***** *** ******* *******.

 

[-ACE-]

edited: probably shouldn't post my license plate on the internet lol

 

[Divinokage]

Something about Florida. Must be the Ganon state

Well we now have a japanese Ganon that came to Montreal to study french and english, his name is Loki. He's actually pretty good, he said he was above average and then I played him, ya he knows his setups very well but he's not very precise, he whiffs a lot of aerials just like we talked about earlier.. the old Ganon way. This stuff needs to go away! The "hoping it hits" mentality is too deeply ingrained I think. lol. Other than that, he's kinda technical but only when he needs to, his style is close to what I did before.

 

[Renth]

I hate the neutral game vs. falcon so much now that I spam up angled filt way too often, shield way too much, get irritated and end up camping ledge most the game.

Teach me this stupid stupid match up. (Just the stupid neutral game please)

 

[spider_sense]

I'd body Renth for free.

 

[spider_sense]

Btw, someone help me convince Tipman to play again. Also, who's going to Apex?

 

[-ACE-]

Jason I'll hit you up when I'm in Miami. you got a setup? Or a place you smash at. 2 weeks-ish

finally you get to body a legend

 

[Divinokage]

I hate the neutral game vs. falcon so much now that I spam up angled filt way too often, shield way too much, get irritated and end up camping ledge most the game.

Teach me this stupid stupid match up. (Just the stupid neutral game please)

You need to move a lot and always be ready to counter-attack. Remember also to CC at lower % to get a grab or jab. Sometimes you just have to take the hit and then give yourself a better position. I think the best thing is try to knockdown Falcon as much as possible to easily techchase him. If the Falcon is campy you just need to slowly creep in, no need to rush, he's going to have to move eventually and throw out something which is often Nair, Knee. Think of Ganon as a big mountain, stand your ground! You need to disrupt Falcon's movement rather than throwing out any moves to try to hit him. Maybe you need to be faster with your reactions? Idk... You gotta be more specific then.

 

[Renth]

I'd body Renth for free.

<3.

About time you started coming back around.

Btw, someone help me convince Tipman to play again. Also, who's going to Apex?

I messaged tippy on facebook recently but I got nothing back from it

Btw, someone help me convince Tipman to play again. Also, who's going to Apex?

I had planned on going but I might bail, last year wasn't very fun over all. Didn't care for the experience of the event.. It was very crowded uncomfortable and friendlies were next to impossible.

You need to move a lot and always be ready to counter-attack. Remember also to CC at lower % to get a grab or jab. Sometimes you just have to take the hit and then give yourself a better position. I think the best thing is try to knockdown Falcon as much as possible to easily techchase him. If the Falcon is campy you just need to slowly creep in, no need to rush, he's going to have to move eventually and throw out something which is often Nair, Knee. Think of Ganon as a big mountain, stand your ground! You need to disrupt Falcon's movement rather than throwing out any moves to try to hit him. Maybe you need to be faster with your reactions? Idk... You gotta be more specific then.

I'll try to record with RockCrock or Gahtzu whenever I get the chance to give you a better idea what I'm talking about. I've always felt smash was hard to talk about without video to go along with it. I think you said what I wanted to hear, It's a matter of experience and adapting to the situation at this point. I think it's a very difficult match up but then other times it feels super easy. A lot of the problem I believe is impatience, I hate being dash dance camped I get bored and do stupid crap that never works lol. I need to start boxing them out rather then being the fly to their spider web.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya pretty much, if you know what Falcon is looking for depending on the range between you and him then it becomes a lot easier to deal with.. but it's REALLY important to capitalize and not let him move as much as possible. I think being mid range with Falcon is generally always good. Being point-blank is kinda rough though unless he's the one shielding then you have a few options.