Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[tm]

tm: ledgehop ftilt is never invincible.

I didn't mean the entire ftilt is covered by invincibility, just the startup

 

[Divinokage]

The problem with RLD is that if the opponent knows you are doing that, you are pretty much ****ed unless you go back on the ledge no matter what. Ganon's moves simply aren't fast enough to abuse ledge invincibility, ive gotten punished by doing WD to jab because all the opponent needs to do is hit you from the top or do a move that has greater range because at the end of the jab you are out of invincibility. The good thing with RLD is that you may be able to make the opponent whiff by hitting where you were and then he'll eat a Fair or Dair maybe bair could work out too. I like RLD with Falcon a lot more though, he's so much more mobile it's nice. =P

I wonder can you RLD then go on the BF platform on the side? I can do it with Falcon but I feel like Ganon doesn't jump high enough like that.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Kage, you can, but the timing is super strict. I can't do that one consistently. I find it's a lot easier to RLD, edge cancel a dair and then immediately waveland onto the platform. It's cool to use every now and again.

And superspright, if anyone uses these "underused and advanced techniques," its me, and I almost never suicide anymore- ask kage about our big house matches. They're really not that important though in my opinion, just little gimmicks, really. Take my matches vs kage again. I might have won, like, three out of 20+ if even that, even with all my gimmicks and tech skill.

 

[-ACE-]

His perfect waveland is easier because of this detail coincidental or design [and it's obviously design because video games are designed...LOL]. I never said he was 'designed for platforms' [WTF does that mean?] but his jump height is just enough to put him on top of them. I do not DJ waveland anything. It's always single hop. I just time it properly and do full wavelands. Most go the lazy way and DJ but that leaves you open to get killed too often. I haven't seen anyone really doing RLD or any of the things I described, consistently. I know everyone can do them, but no one is using them in tournament or they commit suicide 2-3 times a match when they try. I'm just not impressed. I haven't been experimenting. I've been doing.

Honestly, just about every one of you needs to go back to college and get your reading comprehension up...because I haven't said half of the **** I am accused of. Quote me next time.

Also I'm pretty sure you can invincibly ledge-hop ftilt. If you can wavedash and jab it shouldn't be hard to ftilt.

lol. when the doctor said tasks your Prozac "as needed" he means times like this. Chill out lil noob.

 

[Superspright]

Ace, when you learn how to use English properly and grammar then I'll take my 'prozac'. Are you really trying to make fun of me for being mentally ill? Are you some sort of sadistic asshole or just a *****? I cannot really tell at this point.

and LOL @ melee's design having ganon's waveland in mind.. seriously, keep 'em coming.

LOL @ Nothing because I never said it. Quote it. Oh wait, you can't because I never said it and you're slow in the brain.

 

[Superspright]

Tacos tacos tacos.

 

[foxyisemo]

jeez, someone's mad.

idk what's worse, your smack talk or ganon advice.

 

[foxyisemo]

Sorry for sparking this bros, I think I now see why no one typically bothers criticizing this guy. If I had been active on this site I'm sure I would've picked up on this.

 

[Renth]

The problem with RLD is that if the opponent knows you are doing that, you are pretty much ****ed unless you go back on the ledge no matter what. Ganon's moves simply aren't fast enough to abuse ledge invincibility, ive gotten punished by doing WD to jab because all the opponent needs to do is hit you from the top or do a move that has greater range because at the end of the jab you are out of invincibility. The good thing with RLD is that you may be able to make the opponent whiff by hitting where you were and then he'll eat a Fair or Dair maybe bair could work out too. I like RLD with Falcon a lot more though, he's so much more mobile it's nice. =P

I wonder can you RLD then go on the BF platform on the side? I can do it with Falcon but I feel like Ganon doesn't jump high enough like that.

I've gotten super consistent at RLD, I'll do it 1-5 times in a row and randomly during them i'll jump on the stage and side b, down b, tilt. ect. If you RLD repeatedly I find most people will just stand there and do nothing but watch you do it lol.

- unrelated:

I hate the neutral game vs. Falcon, it's dreadful. If you shield you are screwed, it's hard to tell in tech chases if you're going to get grabbed or knee'd in a lot of situations so I find myself shielding way too often while being tech chased. I play on the ledge / use a lot of up angled f tilts in the match but I feel like there's something I'm missing. Also, I always thought when they both used side b at the same time Falcon would always win and it would make me so angry but.. I'm so often in player slot #4. I was playing in #1 against falcons and my side b's were winning so I guess i'm asking if it's player priority which at this point I think it is..

I'm also learning that campy falcon is a hard counter to ganon, you cannot approach it. I've tried from every ganon trick in the book I dislike how safe I have to try to play in the match up but it's something I have to learn the hard way. I'll give you a SSFIV AE example: I play Akuma, There are some ultras like Abels Breathless? I think it's that one. If you throw a fireball even max range on the screen his ultra will fly through and hit you, there are anti-air ultras Hakan, zangief, seth ect.ect. Once I taught myself to stop approaching with demon flips once their gauge is full the match ups became much better. Same concept I believe, I got to adapt to the style.

Well I agree we should use more ledgedrop uair vs Marth, I hardly use that because its kinda scary as I dont have confidence of how to use it precisely without missing. Ill try to figure it out.

Eikelmann has been preaching to do this for a long time, I've been playing against a lot of marth recently and it's definitely good... if the Marth isn't ready for it. Like everything in melee, if you do something too much it becomes predictable. Marth will start up bing earlier, closer to the stage ect. I use it a lot now, falling b air works good too. I've been doing a lot of ledge hop up air against falcon, marth, ganon ect. I think I'm going to stop doing ledge hop up airs in a lot of situations... I think i'd rather jump on the stage run off up air, f air ect. unless they are hugging the stage blablablabla....

Sorry for sparking this bros, I think I now see why no one typically bothers criticizing this guy. If I had been active on this site I'm sure I would've picked up on this.

This isn't anything new.

Super gets butt hurt instantly all the time, after the 20th time it starts to lose it's effect.

 

[BTmoney]

wow this thread lolol

 

[Renth]

The biggest difference between Kage and the rest of us.

Kage reacts to how the opponent plays intelligently, the majority of us are fast paced, throwing out a lot of aerials using movement tricks to make our opponent react to us. We've tried to push the fast Ganondorf meta and frankly, it's not good enough. We all need play the match ups not play our own zoom zoom zoom game that we all have seemed to come to love.

All the times I laughed at Kage because I thought he was slow and unoriginal, the entire time he was playing the way we all should be.

Tricks are great to have, I have more tricks than I care to talk about. At the end of the day, a gimmick is a gimmick

 

[Divinokage]

The biggest difference between Kage and the rest of us.

Kage reacts to how the opponent plays intelligently, the majority of us are fast paced, throwing out a lot of aerials using movement tricks to make our opponent react to us. We've tried to push the fast Ganondorf meta and frankly, it's not good enough. We all need play the match ups not play our own zoom zoom zoom game that we all have seemed to come to love.

All the times I laughed at Kage because I thought he was slow and unoriginal, the entire time he was playing the way we all should be.

Tricks are great to have, I have more tricks than I care to talk about. At the end of the day, a gimmick is a gimmick

Well I used to play like that but I never had the movement tricks down very well. I mean I used to spam moves a lot as well, "hoping to hit" lol. But eventually when you go to a higher level, you just can't whiff at all, the precision is too important. Sometimes I feel like I can do everything which is nice though. =P

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Renth, I couldn't agree more with you on that. After I play someone for the first time, their general reaction is "whoa wtf who IS this ganon, I didn't know you could do that?!?" But... Then they realize that you CAN do that... And then that's it, no more tricks. I have the same answer for every situation and find it hard to mix it up. I think the best way to move ganon forward is to kinda combine the two styles, quick and smart. I think linguini did this to some extent, but he was still more on the flashy side I think.

That being said, I think I'm pretty fun to watch
Gathered a nice crowd vs kels' falco in some friendlies, super hype. Lol kage was there probably shaking his head.

 

[Renth]

Renth, I couldn't agree more with you on that. After I play someone for the first time, their general reaction is "whoa wtf who IS this ganon, I didn't know you could do that?!?" But... Then they realize that you CAN do that... And then that's it, no more tricks. I have the same answer for every situation and find it hard to mix it up. I think the best way to move ganon forward is to kinda combine the two styles, quick and smart. I think linguini did this to some extent, but he was still more on the flashy side I think.

That being said, I think I'm pretty fun to watch
Gathered a nice crowd vs kels' falco in some friendlies, super hype. Lol kage was there probably shaking his head.

Linguini is very campy he was never really that flashy I don't think

 

[Renth]

Renth, I couldn't agree more with you on that. After I play someone for the first time, their general reaction is "whoa wtf who IS this ganon, I didn't know you could do that?!?" But... Then they realize that you CAN do that... And then that's it, no more tricks. I have the same answer for every situation and find it hard to mix it up. I think the best way to move ganon forward is to kinda combine the two styles, quick and smart. I think linguini did this to some extent, but he was still more on the flashy side I think.

That being said, I think I'm pretty fun to watch
Gathered a nice crowd vs kels' falco in some friendlies, super hype. Lol kage was there probably shaking his head.

Are we competitors or are we entertainers?

My general theme towards smash is entertainment, I enjoy showing people glitches messing around and try to show people things they have never seen before. However, being a clown doesn't get you very far in a competitive scene.

ddddouble post

 

[Superspright]

Sorry for sparking this bros, I think I now see why no one typically bothers criticizing this guy. If I had been active on this site I'm sure I would've picked up on this.

Because I'm right when I talk? I can't help it that I strive to not be a dumb ass every day whereas most are complacent with their stupidity. You pounded your chest like a furious idiot exclaiming with conviction my ineptitude only to be ironically flipped on you when you cannot provide a verbatim quote of my alleged intellectually devoid transgression.

@Renth Who are you?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Are we competitors or are we entertainers?

Well, I'd like to compete at a higher level, but honestly, I think the entertainment factor is a big part. At least, it is for me, it's what makes the game fun for me (which should be the most important part I think).

And in friendlies, forget about it man, I'm gonna go all out flashy especially if there's a crowd behind me haha. I've never had a huge crowd behind me cheering and groaning like I did vs kels at big house and it felt pretty good getting the cheers when I made a really good read or did something people hadn't seen before.

Take hbox for example: he's a great player and he wins a lot of matches, but I would hate to always play against the crowd, like if nobody wants to see you win, what's the point? Everybody that's met him says he a really chill dude, and from what I've seen, I can agree... but there's no denying that nobody wants to see the dude succeed lol

To answer your question: at kage's level, I'd say his main goal should be to win and progress, but I'll probably never be that good lol, I just don't have the time anymore so might as well have fun with it!

Lol at spright's comment. Renth is an old school ganon who just returned from, like, a four year (close enough?) break, dude. The guy inspired me to use the waveland.

 

[Superspright]

I learned stuff from Tipman [the original G of Long Island]. He invented a lot of the Ganon stuff. I never heard of Renth before.

 

[Renth]

@Renth Who are you?

I'm not sure how to answer this, I also know you are cancer and responding to you generally leads to a wall of text that no one really reads anyway.

Hi, my name is Mark Strenko.

I picked my character because of my love for Ocarina of time, the idea of being able to USE GANONDORF excited me.

I've been playing competitive melee since 2005. I started in Pennsylvania with a group of people in high school, none of them play anymore. I eventually met The Cape and UmbreonMow, The Cape taught me virtually everything from the ground up as far as advanced techniques go.

The early days:

After a year I was ranked #10 on the PA power rankings. I won a handful of local events, I got 2nd place multiple times in Pittsburgh usually losing to Wesley (Mogwai) or Tim (Swiftbass)

After awhile I became less and less active, the nearest decent smash player to me was two hours away so practice was scarce. I feel I could have been a much better player had I been given the opportunity to play more often with players of a high caliber but you what you get. After high school I moved to Gainesville Florida. I met the Cake Eaters: Exach, Derf, Fenrir, and Rohins. They were on a higher level than me granted my lack of play time with good players that and Florida is a stronger region than Pennsylvania. I quickly became a staple in the area, I was generally liked by all the strangers I met through smash and I truly enjoyed the experience. I went to a tournament in Tampa where I met Fenrir for the first time, we teamed at that event and we won first place beating Col Bol and xYz. I got third at that event losing to Fenrir and Col bol.

As time went by I became more and more active in the scene but I didn't improve very quickly, I had become so invested in my own personal style I never took the time to practice and learn proper fundamentals. When I had first started competitive melee I was told not to pick my character because he was slow, he can't combo and was just not good I took that as a personal challenge of sorts I tried very hard to make Ganondorf a very fast character with strong combos. Today, I feel I have accomplished what I wanted to do as far as pushing the characters potential with the help of Thomas Tipman via. Aol instant messenger conversations.

vs. scar

vs. rockcrock

vs. silentswag

I drift in and out of smash very often, I'll go several months without playing at all then out of the blue I'll be playing non-stop.

I'm trying to push through my mental barriers and prove to myself I am more than just a smash entertainer.


A lot of the joy I had with smash was just playing the game, I never cared about combo DI, Spacing, match ups or any of the competitive things I was getting myself in to. Nakamaru and I felt the same way and it shows in our play styles, we are very aggressive, try to style and are very silly.

Nakamaru was a pittsburgh player who was also friends with The Cape so we became training friends and today I fear Nakamaru, I haven't been able to beat him in tournament in awhile. Last event I played him was a hotel tournament at the Big House 2. In Grand Finals he won 3-2.

Nakamaru and I present : We're sooo bored.

I feel differently about smash today than I did back when I was learning, general movements the smallest thing was so cool to me but now after years of seeing things.. Very little excites me and makes me be like WOW that was a cool movement or I really liked that trick. It will take some mental exercising to become that involved in the game again. I've been playing a lot more again recently, mostly with RockCrock and Uberice. They've been training me up for an upcoming Pittsburgh tournament I'm attending around the end of November. I feel confident in my abilities, I just don't have the drive, fire or passion I use to. I feel it hinders my ability to improve/learn because I don't have the same attachment I use to have. I am studying Kages old videos with a more open mind, my over-confident, cocky, douchey mindset is mostly gone but I still enjoy to style. I am re-learning a lot from the ground up as well as trying to be innovative with what made me love this game in the first place.

Any Questions?

edit:

I can go into a lot more detail. I had moved back to Pennsylvania for a few years

I didn't own a controller, a copy of smash or cared about the scene what so ever, Vudujin, randomly messaged me and asked me to come play with them. Jacob (Vudujin) drove 2 hours to pick me up, PGH Carroll gave me a brand new controller and my love for smash was reborn. I almost quit again recently but Eikelmann (Ian) Has been driving to my place frequently to keep my passion alive. I won't claim to be good at the game in a competitive sense because I'm not, I am literally an entertainer and my current goal is to prove to myself I can compete with knowledge and understanding.

 

[Divinokage]

Well it IS partly because of you guys that I was able to advance my game. Ya back in the day I was younger and I put up a front where I seemed like I didn't care for all the flashy stuff but you know eventually I started incorporating all the useful stuff that I could think of. My main strength is my memory which is why I can make someone else's experience mine, it's partly why I have my name as Kage. I steal everyone's technique and then make my own style with it... hehe.

Styling is fun though but my opponents knows how to defend against it so it's really hard to just let loose without care. lol.

Superspright... in this case it would be more WHO ARE YOU!? Never seen a vid of you ever.

 

[PGH Carroll]

A: Renth is the HOMIE.

 

[Renth]

Superspright... in this case it would be more WHO ARE YOU!? Never seen a vid of you ever.

For how much ridiculous crap he talks, I don't believe I've seen one either.

 

[Superspright]

~Snip~

I am not watching this old crap. Sorry. And I didn't want your biography I was just curious about who you are. You are still just some nerd playing a video game to me. I don't respect you at all, and I don't have to.

 

[Renth]

Because I'm right when I talk?

I am not watching this old crap. Sorry. And I didn't want your biography I was just curious about who you are. You are still just some nerd playing a video game to me. I don't respect you at all, and I don't have to.

You wonder why no one takes your posts seriously, you are hyper defensive and do nothing but attack people lol.

Grow up bro

Curious about who you are?

I think I summed it up pretty nicely, What did you want my name? my phone number? How can you call someone a nerd playing a video game, whenever you are playing the same exact game.. does that not also make you a "nerd" ?

Can you give me an example of what answer you would have preferred me to give you?


When did I ask for respect? When did I care what you thought of me? Do you even play smash?

I will bet money that "old crap" is better than anything you have done or ever will do you cocky douchebag.

Like I said before, You are Cancer.

 

[PGH Carroll]

"some nerd playing a video game."
Thats gonna hurt some feeling here on Smashboards.com

 

[Superspright]

Grow up bro

I'm 26. I don't want to grow up anymore.

I think I summed it up pretty nicely, What did you want my name? my phone number? How can you call someone a nerd playing a video game, whenever you are playing the same exact game.. does that not also make you a "nerd" ?

"I'm an old-school player who played in tournaments at X Y and Z and played so and so and so and so." That would have been sufficient...but you felt the need to show me something.

When did I ask for respect? When did I care what you thought of me? Do you even play smash?

1. When you 'demonstrated' your smash resumé.
2. When you 'demonstrated' your smash resumé.
3. Yes.

I will bet money that "old crap" is better than anything you have done or ever will do you cocky douchebag

You'd lose your money.

For clarification yes I am a nerd. But I don't expect you to respect me either. You're more of a dork really--nerds tend to be smart.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Renth, you used to be so bad at edge guarding

IS THE UAIR SPIKE THAT DIFFICULT??? (Talking about your rockcrock match)

Good stuff vs swag tho, forgot about that death combo uair, uair, fair my god

edit: yea spright, tipman was the creator of the new metagame (Eddie will always be the inventor of ganon of course), but renth was just as old school and really pushed the whole waveland thing to another level IMO. Oh, and I use dsmash more than any ganon because of him. If we wanna actually talk about GANON (crazy, right??), dsmash is great after a tech chase that you can't quite reach because it covers spot dodge and roll behind when they, inevitably, put up their shield. It is also safe on shield if spaced correctly.

 

[Renth]

$50 MM Apex?

 

[Superspright]

$50 MM Apex?

I'd love to go but I have real life problems at the moment. I've been trying to find a way out there. I'd MM you even if I was gonna lose. I don't give a ****.

But honestly if you aren't really trying to compete and just be an entertainer we could have a tech-off. I'm sure I am more technical than you if you haven't improved since those videos.

 

[Renth]

I'd love to go but I have real life problems at the moment. I've been trying to find a way out there. I'd MM you even if I was gonna lose. I don't give a ****.

Is your real life problems that you are a raging douchebag?

 

[Superspright]

Is your real life problems that you are a raging douchebag?

You're more astute than I originally had presumed.

 

[PGH Carroll]

I love when people respond to "Grow up" with their age. hahahahahhahah
IM 26! YOU GROW UP!

 

[Superspright]

I love when people respond to "Grow up" with their age. hahahahahhahah
IM 26! YOU GROW UP!

I'm glad you really liked that. I am especially amused when people repeat what I say and then guffaw like a jackass. Sorry that this humor has to be at someone's expense, i.e. you.

 

[Renth]

I won't claim to be good at the game in a competitive sense because I'm not, I am literally an entertainer and my current goal is to prove to myself I can compete with knowledge and understanding.

Should I quote myself where I claimed to not be very good at this game competitively, I don't know what this guy wants from me.

 

[Superspright]

I want your first born child. Honestly though if you think Bizzaro Flame's tech skill is good then you'd think the same about mine. I can do anything he does and a few more things.

 

[tm]

wow what an epic introduction. Well I appreciated it anyway. I think I knew you from the boards but saw your sweet movement at BH2. We'll play at fight pitt for sure

 

[Renth]

wow what an epic introduction. Well I appreciated it anyway. I think I knew you from the boards but saw your sweet movement at BH2. We'll play at fight pitt for sure

Can't wait to play with you.

 

[foxyisemo]

Superspright:

I will MM you for ANY amount in ganon dittos.. Yes, this dumb teenager is comfortable making this bet both competitively and financially. Since we're all entertainers here, i'd also agree to not use uair or bair, since you like these moves so much.

I don't know if I'll be at apex or not, but if I am, that offer will be always be good for you.

 

[Divinokage]

I want your first born child. Honestly though if you think Bizzaro Flame's tech skill is good then you'd think the same about mine. I can do anything he does and a few more things.

I think in this case, you THINK you have as good movement as him.. but.. I can't believe that.

 

[Superspright]

I think in this case, you THINK you have as good movement as him.. but.. I can't believe that.

I think we all think. It's just that I think I know what I am talking about. I know the difference between a Ganon who can waveland and a Ganon who can waveland instant pivot ledge grab. Or the difference between a Ganon who can do shielddrops and one who can't. Or a Ganon who dairs someone and dairs them again on the frame before their tech so they pop back up [That's a tipman special]. etc.

Unfortunately I studied this game pretty intensely and practiced my tech skill until the point I have better tech skill than you. You're a stronger player than me by far though. Even Bizzaro doesn't do some of the stuff I do probably for good reasons, but still.

[EDIT] Spelling