How "hardcore" would Smash 4 need to be for you to make the switch?

[Bowser D.X]

This is mainly targeted at the Melee only crowed. How deep and balanced would this game need to be for you to consider taking it up for competitive play, and to possibly replace Melee? Would you be happy if they simply did small things like removing tripping and balance tweaks with some things like L-cancelling brought back, or would it need to be as advanced as if not more then Melee for you to consider even looking at it?

 

[The Real Gamer]

As someone who greatly prefers Melee/Project M gameplay over Brawls...

I just want faster gameplay with more hitstun, faster falling speeds, AUTO L-Cancelling for easier followups, and a balanced roster. That's literally it.

Anyone who's expecting/hoping for Smash 4 to be as complex as Melee might as well just save money not even buy the game.

 

[nessokman]

Melee 9.0, melee with 500 new advanced techniques like WAVEDASHING! Everything from melee stays, as melee is perfection. Tons of hitstun and endless combos. No items in game, they are too random. Like, you know how "too big" Ridley is? Items are the equivelant of that but in randomness. Hell screw the rooster, fox, and peach only characters!

 

[nat pagle]

1.) Hitstun. Brawl was way too campy and defense oriented. The only time outs that ever occurred in Melee were Jiggs dittos or Jiggs vs. campy pocket char.

2.) L-Cancelling, or at least less lag.

3.) Speed. Melee was just so much faster than Brawl.


Smash 4 is not going to be anywhere near as technical as Melee, but it might be close to its speed. There won't be waveshines, wavedashes, etc., but it'll be better than Brawl's.

 

[Renji64]

Everyone mostly covered it. Give me speed i want fights to be fast paced and fun and acutal combos less campy game. I know there will never be another melee so it is settle with this or go back to the good product.

 

[κomıc]

If it plays like Brawl+ I'll be real happy.

Smash Bros is a fan service to me first and a competitive game last.

 

[PikaJew]

This is mainly targeted at the Melee only crowed.

So all of Smash Boards.

 

[link2702]

all I really want is to see the game is at least balanced more than anything else.

Sure having the game be more technical like melee would be a plus, and having things move a bit faster as well.

but ultimately, I just want to know that the game is at least balanced to a degree where the majority of the cast is viable.


of course sadly, this probably won't happen.

 

[Medaka444]

Are people who prefer Brawl allowed to speak? Because I want to say that I hope L-cancelling doesn't return, since I find it to be bad game design. I'd of course want the characters to be balanced - though I can not justify calling that "hardcore" - and I really, really hope that recoveries are better than they were in Melee.

I don't understand how people complain about the "lack" of advanced techniques in Brawl, when there are literally dozens of things you can do there but not in Melee.

 

[Renji64]

Are people who prefer Brawl allowed to speak? Because I want to say that I hope L-cancelling doesn't return, since I find it to be bad game design. I'd of course want the characters to be balanced - though I can not justify calling that "hardcore" - and I really, really hope that recoveries are better than they were in Melee.

I don't understand how people complain about the "lack" of advanced techniques in Brawl, when there are literally dozens of things you can do there but not in Melee.

Like tripping hur hur.

 

[Vkrm]

At this point I'll probably just stick with melee til I'm dead. Really what are odds that smash 4 is going to offer the same complexity that we're used to? No wired support is going to cause problems as well. Just like brawl I'll buy it and enjoy it for a time before putting it away forever. Melee is a master piece and it wouldn't surprise me if we never see another game on that level in the series.

 

[DonkaFjord]

I'd prefer the games to be vastly different to cover all bases so you can play a certain game depending on how you feel or what you like since you can always go back and play melee if you want melee or brawl if you want brawl.

 

[Chzrm3]

For me, it really doesn't need to be that complex. I've always preferred Melee's gameplay, but I still played the heck out of Brawl just because the roster was amazing. When I heard Sakurai mention in interviews that he was going to tighten/speed up the gameplay a bit, that was enough for me.

Smash 4 has Animal Crosser and Megaman, so even if it had ten times the tripping of Brawl, I'd still play it! : D The fact that that's gone is just gravy.

 

[Renji64]

At this point I'll probably just stick with melee til I'm dead. Really what are odds that smash 4 is going to offer the same complexity that we're used to? No wired support is going to cause problems as well. Just like brawl I'll buy it and enjoy it for a time before putting it away forever. Melee is a master piece and it wouldn't surprise me if we never see another game on that level in the series.

It is confirmed we won't. It was too hard as sakurai says which is strange because you can enjoy casually or competively can't say the same for the other release where he pretty much made it for casuals only.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Are people who prefer Brawl allowed to speak? Because I want to say that I hope L-cancelling doesn't return, since I find it to be bad game design. I'd of course want the characters to be balanced - though I can not justify calling that "hardcore" - and I really, really hope that recoveries are better than they were in Melee.

I don't understand how people complain about the "lack" of advanced techniques in Brawl, when there are literally dozens of things you can do there but not in Melee.

I personally don't want L-Cancelling in either, but I sure do want a lot less landing lag all across the board. L-Cancelling is by default not more than slightly annoying to do, and it might aswell be automatic. I use L-Cancelling all the time, obviously because you're forced to and there's no reason to not do it. That's my problem with it, if there's no reason not to do it, then just make it automatic and save us the hassle, in that way super-casual players can also enjoy it.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

It doesn't need the competitive depth of Melee for people to switch; all it needs is enough depth to motivate people to participate in tournaments. This competitive depth in itself is kind of an abstract concept, so if it's close, comparing the two games on that basis is often going to come down to opinion.

Really, all it needs is one thing: to provide players with the means to distinguish their skill level from their opponents at high-level play. If it ticks that box, we can expect people to play it. Hardcore.

 

[Phan7om]

Ok ok ok. I play Brawl as well as Melee, but I greatly prefer Melee even tho I probably suck at it compared to Brawl... but Brawl sucks so lemme insert my two cents.

• Brawl + like playstyle
• L-Canceling, or just much less landing lag overall.
• Balance
• Jump cancelable shines and psi magnet
• No infinites (kinda goes along with balance)
• Less floaty/more falling speed. Easier to gimp characters.

 

[Uffe]

Something better than Brawl.

 

[J1NG]

Ok ok ok. I play Brawl as well as Melee, but I greatly prefer Melee even tho I probably suck at it compared to Brawl... but Brawl sucks so lemme insert my two cents.

• Jump cancelable shines and psi magnet

Hmm...
It would be interesting to give other characters some cancel-able moves. I personally think that it would be awesome for Captain Falcon to be able to cancel the hitting animation of Raptor Boost(on ground or in air) with any of his other B-moves.

 

[Ussi]

Three things that bother me about brawl

Tripping
MK
Ice climbers


If smash4 addresses those issues, i'm sold

 

[HeavySmashGuy]

Pretty much just some gameplay very similar to Melee's. That probably won't happen and I'll probably stick to Melee and Brawl. I'll be a member of the pretty much abandoned SSBB stage building community on my ultimately-more-used-but-inaccessible-right-now All is Brawl account.

 

[Reznor]

Speed of Melee or faster
less landing lag or auto L-Cancel
maybe make it harder to do chain grabs (they can still be in game)
more hitstun
get rid of tripping

 

[LiteralGrill]

Just because it's constantly brought upyet everyone still says they want it out,

SAKURAI CONFIRMED HE REMOVED TRIPPING!

Now that you know, stop hoping it wont be there, IT WONT.

 

[Hydde]

For someone who played Melee to death, and hated brawl to the core.... ill add my 2 cents.

-First of all, FASTER GAMEPLAY and much less floatiness: This was a crushing factor for me in brawl. i already noticed SB4 is being sped-up a little and thats definitely a good sign. I was ignoring Smash4 until some days ago when i saw that ootage gamepplay and liked what i saw.

-HITSTUNS!: Without this, we cant set up combos and everything becomes a dodge/shield fest. Campers galore. Thats why i hated brawl so much. In melee, i used to play marth overly offensive and it gave me great results. In brawl... the more aggresive u played, the easier was to get camped and shieldgrabbed. With hitstuns, you could be able to do follow ups more properly the way theyw ere done in melee, and we wuld be able to see the marvelous combos of old.

-CHARACTER BALANCE: The balance of melee was bad... but Brawl was atrocious. Hated MK and Snake with passion.
Now it seems that Sakurai is willing to pay more attention to balance. He should seriously hire some seasoned pros from melee for that. SO if Sakurai is willing to do a better job at this, ill think about it.

-L-cancelling or AutoLcancelling is a must.

-Make the game thinking about both competitive and casuals, not just one community: Nuff said.


And last but not least.....I demand a focus on the Vs Player experience. No more Sub space bull**** fiascos.

We dont care about story mode... we want to destroy the **** out of each others in fashion . Thats what made a game like melee last for so long.

 

[greenluigiman2]

Speed of Melee or faster
less landing lag or auto L-Cancel
maybe make it harder to do chain grabs (they can still be in game)
more hitstun
get rid of tripping

 

[Reznor]

yes make it faster than Melee make it so fast I can run off stage over and over by accident

 

[Ulti-Bman]

As long as it plays as seen in Sonic's gameplay clip then I'm happy. In other words, speed in between Melee's and Brawls, less lag, easier combos, and decent character balance. It doesn't need to be overly complex, just good enough so fights can be action-packed, fair, and interesting. I think Sakurai's doing a good job on that so far.

 

[Renji64]

There was a combo in the sonic video a combo! a small ray of light has appeared.

 

[SmashChu]

This is mainly targeted at the Melee only crowed. How deep and balanced would this game need to be for you to consider taking it up for competitive play, and to possibly replace Melee? Would you be happy if they simply did small things like removing tripping and balance tweaks with some things like L-cancelling brought back, or would it need to be as advanced as if not more then Melee for you to consider even looking at it?

I'll answer that question on behalf of the community.

"It would have to be Melee. There is not game as great as Melee and there never will be."

 

[Vkrm]

I'll answer that question on behalf of the community.

"It would have to be Melee. There is not game as great as Melee and there never will be."

Well that explains all the flak that 64 gets from the melee community...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Have people ignored the blatant and obvious use of combos in the Sonic trailer?

 

[DakotaBonez]

The core would have to be tougher to chew through than a jawbreaker.
In all seriousness, I won't be able to resist the temptation of Megaman's unique fighting style.
I'll come crawling back to Project M on all fours if the online is total garbage in the wii u game.

 

[Jaedrik]

What, you don't like games with high skill ceilings? There's an incredible lack of these nowadays, especially in the FPS market.
In answer to the thread title: ULTRA HARDCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE
I'll play it anyways, hopefully it has a lot of complexity and depth.
Shoutouts to my fellow Stream Monsters.

 

[Alzi]

I will make the switch no matter what happens with the game, although I think if it just has the following then it would be good enough to satisfy some of the hardcore people:

- Faster gameplay than brawl (which we have already seen it does)
- Hit stun increased (something good enough where it will allow for at least some combo's)
- Faster fall speed (kinda goes with faster gameplay)
- Balance (an important one too nothing more lame then seeing the same characters being on top all the time, although it won't always be an easy job to balance every single character out as evenly as possible.)

 

[Johnknight1]

This is mainly targeted at the Melee only crowed. How deep and balanced would this game need to be for you to consider taking it up for competitive play, and to possibly replace Melee? Would you be happy if they simply did small things like removing tripping and balance tweaks with some things like L-cancelling brought back, or would it need to be as advanced as if not more then Melee for you to consider even looking at it?

First off, it won't replace Melee. Never. I'm playing Melee forever. That game is too fun. Maybe I'll play Project M forever too.

Second off, it doesn't need anything. I will play it competitively. If I enjoy it, I will keep playing. If I don't enjoy playing it competitively, I won't. I won't make my Brawl mistake again of playing the game for like 3 months after I stopped enjoying it hoping to rekindle my (newness-centered) love of the game.

Third off, if the balancing sucks, there is always mods.

Fourth off, even if the game isn't enjoyable to play competitively for me (like Brawl was for me), mods will inevitably come (like Balanced Brawl, Brawl +, Brawl -, or Project M) to make the gameplay amazing, fun, and have that "timeless" feel. Project M in particular is a mod I just can't get enough of.

But yeah, ultimately, it has gotten to be where even if the game sucks, the mods can make both games great.

No wired support is going to cause problems as well.

Wired USB support for keyboards was just confirmed in a Nintendo Direct yesterday, so the chances of wired USB support for controllers (GCN controller=??? just shot up.

Have people ignored the blatant and obvious use of combos in the Sonic trailer?

Nope. I've been pointing out the amazing looking gameplay since the first trailer(s).[/quote]

 

[210stuna]

Like Project: M & Gamecube controllers.

Yup.

 

[VhatDeHel]

I personally don't want L-Cancelling in either, but I sure do want a lot less landing lag all across the board. L-Cancelling is by default not more than slightly annoying to do, and it might aswell be automatic. I use L-Cancelling all the time, obviously because you're forced to and there's no reason to not do it. That's my problem with it, if there's no reason not to do it, then just make it automatic and save us the hassle, in that way super-casual players can also enjoy it.

I personally think if L-Canceling returns, it shouldn't be automatic. There's no reason not to do it, but the point is that if you mess up, you can get punished. If there was automatic L-Canceling, characters like Captain Falcon could just keep throwing out aerials and it'd be hard to hit him.

 

[Morbi]

I do not care how competitive the game is, I don't care about pacing or mechanics. I literally just want the roster to be balanced. That is all! We can hope for no S tier this time around. Hopefully there are only 3 tiers. That is my kind of game. I know it is A LOT to ask for. I have faith because Namco was on board. If it was only Sora Ltd. I would hope for more glitches made into Advanced Techniques. Haha.

 

[BarlessPianist]

Personally, I don't think it needs to be better than melee, or try to replace it at all. As it stands, I'm very interested in playing Smash 4 at tourneys even if it ends up being Brawl again. More than anything, Im just excited about having a fresh start and an even playing field again. We're all starting from scratch again with a new meta game to form, new tier lists to define, new techs to discover. To me, this is way more meaningful than wether or not L Canceling makes a return.

That said, I'd APPRECIATE something much faster than brawl. I can survive some tech skills being lost so long as the general pacing picks up. I'd love to be able to dash dance and wave dash and all of that in this new game, but if I can't, I won't be too disappointed, really. I have P:M if I really want my fix of high level technical play. I'm just looking forward to something new.

 

[shinhed-echi]

No tripping + slightly faster gameplay (slightlly, as in closer to N64 than Melee) + character balance = Perfect Smash Bros.