Houston Thread - No HOBOs and no WHOBOs. What do we do now??????????????????????????????????????????

[Infinitysmash]

I don't care either way about this rule, but seeing people complain about a rule and then saying you're going to make the rule even easier to break than it already is is a bad idea Xyro. Just giving you a heads up dude.

 

[Xyro77]

.........................

 

[Xyro77]

I don't care either way about this rule, but seeing people complain about a rule and then saying you're going to make the rule even easier to break than it already is is a bad idea Xyro. Just giving you a heads up dude.

explain how. most characters wont break this rule. and 50 was an IDEA. none of this is set in stone

The SBR's definition of Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs most end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling.

Planking is "Running away from an opponent to reach a better position". You can still actively attack someone who is planking, so under the Sbr's recommended "Stalling is Banned" planking is legal.

the fact that people use this tactic to beat people who would probably beat them is why im seriosuly considering it.

 

[Infinitysmash]

Because if people complain about something and instead of listening to them you make it even worse it tends to have a bad effect. Ask Kirby Kid.

 

[UltimateRazer]

So is repeatedly jumping back on the ledge for invincibility frames over and over stalling?

Just need clarification. If its not then the rule should be enforced.

 

[PhantomX]

Not if you're being proactive with the frames.

Oh, and Xyro, keep in mind that enforcing this would be a much larger burden on yourself, especially in larger tournaments, and it will only further time constraints, as some people may force a TO to organize and finalize the "loss"after rounds that it happens, meaning you'll physically have to go over there, say "yeah, you lose" and then they have to play out another round, where this could happen again.

Lol, imagine if there are 45 setups and this is happening at everyone one for every round. This is hyperbole of course, but ****, that would suck major ***.

 

[heytallman]

so, i may consider this grab rule. except ill lower it to 50. im so sick of this stuff. melee was never like this.

50 grabs = 1 ledge grab every 9.6 seconds
60 grabs = 1 ledge grab every 8 seconds
70 grabs = 1 ledge grab every ~ 6.86 seconds

And don't the Japanese play with a 10 minute timer? So if they play with the rule at 70 grabs within 10 minutes, that's ~ 8.6 seconds in between grabs. So our rule would have to be somewhere around 55 to be close to the Japanese. Actually, 56 gives the closest to their time. Just saying.

As for my overall opinion: I have yet to get gayed out by a ledgecamping MK, but I can imagine how bad it would suck to lose like that. Testing it at one random tournament here wouldn't really do much, because, as far as I know, Texas doesn't have too many ledgegrab-happy players, so enforcing a rule may not change much. But I think that it would be a good rule to have.

 

[Xyro77]

Because if people complain about something and instead of listening to them you make it even worse it tends to have a bad effect. Ask Kirby Kid.

what did he do? i didnt even know he played anymore

 

[Sethlon]

So is repeatedly jumping back on the ledge for invincibility frames over and over stalling?

This is not "Stalling" either. Assuming that they can get consecutive invulnerability, you can still grab the ledge yourself mid their jump to take the ledge from them.

@Phantom: I don't see why TGM would need to be called over. If someone calls them on it and their number is over 70, they lose, period. The only TO interaction needed would be confirming that the 70 rule is in place.

 

[PhantomX]

This is not "Stalling" either. Assuming that they can get consecutive invulnerability, you can still grab the ledge yourself mid their jump to take the ledge from them.

@Phantom: I don't see why TGM would need to be called over. If someone calls them on it and their number is over 70, they lose, period. The only TO interaction needed would be confirming that the 70 rule is in place.

How are they going to prevent liars or people arguing? There aren't always people watching the matches, lol. Generally a mediator is required, in this case the TO most likely, or someone that's supposed to assist him.

I guess some sort of "kicked out of the tournament" rule could possibly be enforced, but that could get ugly.

 

[Infinitysmash]

what did he do? i didnt even know he played anymore

He ran a tournament all ****ty style and when people complain he tried to blame it on us instead of taking responsibility. He runs a biweekly up here that I don't go to any more because of how he treated all of the out-of-towners when they came up (including Sethlon, Razer, DMG and Hylian)

My point here wasn't about the rule at all, just a heads up more than anything. I don't grab the ledge but maybe 30-40 times a match (yeah, I looked at it a few times after I heard about the rule at CoT4) so the rule doesn't matter to me personally. My point was to listen to the people whom it does bother. It looked to me like instead of listening to people complain you were trying to make the rule even more harsh, and I didn't want to see the community backlash at you because of this. I don't like drama, so I was trying to stop it from happening to you

 

[BlueJx23]

what if someone decides to count their ledgegrabs, save 30 or so, and in the last 30 seconds of the match, they ledgecamp 'til the clock is spent (with a lead, of course). this would still fall under stalling, right? on second thought, is ledgecamping considered stalling in the first place (since it doesn't force the opponent into an unplayable position, merely a rather difficult one)?

 

[Sethlon]

on second thought, is ledgecamping considered stalling in the first place (since it doesn't force the opponent into an unplayable position, merely a rather difficult one)?

Planking is "Running away from an opponent to reach a better position". You can still actively attack someone who is planking, so under the Sbr's recommended "Stalling is Banned" planking is legal.

10Repeatingmyselfs

How are they going to prevent liars or people arguing? There aren't always people watching the matches, lol. Generally a mediator is required, in this case the TO most likely, or someone that's supposed to assist him.

If you're really worried that people will lie about it, you could always just pull a random person over to see that he did indeed go over the number before bringing it back to the menu screen.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

is ledgecamping stalling?

Spoiler

for sethlon lol

 

[Espy Rose]

Man, why do people find this new rule so hard to understand?

I'm indifferent towards it. I don't mind if it's implemented into the tournaments either.

70 edgegrabs equates to appromixately 1 grab every 6.9 seconds.
How unlikely is that to happen if the person is deliberately trying NOT to plank?

And about people needing 70 edgegrabs for recovery...
Just play a match with someone, like usual. I guarantee you probably won't even break 30 without intentionally grabbing the edge often.

And if you're REALLY getting knocked off the level so many times that you grab it 70 times in a match, then you probably deserve to lose.

Besides, doesn't the rule only apply to matches in which the clock expires?

It punishes unwary plankers, and encourages actual "fighting" in the game. Nothing wrong with this rule, really.

 

[QUIVO]

I like the rule, but I think there are way too many ways around it for characters like MK and maybe GAW..

 

[The Real Inferno]

Kansas is planning on testing to find a number we might like best and iss fair (if we decide to to use this rule). We think 70 sounds too high. It also calls upon the problem of somebody just doing it 69 (lulz) times to be a **** if they bother to count. Planking is such a hard concept to ban as can be anything.

 

[kailo34ce]

the tier list is funny...why?they did the whole 1-15 thing its just funny that pointwise:

MK=Pokemon Trainer, Yoshi, Link, Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon all put together

=]


ban planking..its easy

if you see someone do it turn off the wii,stand up point at them and yell

PLANKER

me and sethlon will have the gasoline and rope ready.

we will have a designated zone for said "planker" and justice will be brought through the flame.

planking=burn in hell

yay

easier rule =3


so anyway, i agree with sethlon thats its getting a better position
but i also think its exploiting a major flaw in the game design
(some say the same about wavedashing,you decide if its the same idk)

i also agree with xyro but i say planking stays with a 50 grab cap
plank away boys

ill be on the stage waiting to fight

 

[Furbs]

it reduces plainking



no cause u can beat the airdodge ery easily. do multihitting attacks



that stuff gets u punished anyway

LOL!

yeah okay then

 

[BlueJx23]

sorry about that, sethlon.

so basically, this rule won't stop gay people from being gay. i still like the idea of it, though.

 

[Espy Rose]

so anyway, i agree with sethlon thats its getting a better position
but i also think its exploiting a major flaw in the game design
(some say the same about wavedashing,you decide if its the same idk)

I don't think planking exploits a major flaw in Brawl.
It exploits a flaw in the tournament ruleset.

Take the timer off. Then what?

Of course, we can't do that, because then tournaments would take forever.

 

[slikvik]

I don't mind this rule at all. It should probably be around ~50 if the japanese play with a 10 minute timer

Sethlon, what tools does a falco possess to deal with a G&W or mk planking excessively?

 

[DMG]

Ok listen, here are two problems with this rule:

1. If people start to plank later on in the match, they can do it non stop and still be under 70. They can still do this if you pick 50/40/even 30.

2. If you pick a number, there's no stopping someone from doing it until they reach that number, hence you pick 70 they can just do it for 60-69 and still be ok.

Now, while I am an advocate of camping with Wario lol, I am not endorsing Planking myself. I think that it kills the game and boils it down into MK dittos or something possibly like MK vs G&W. I'm just being realistic with this rule you are proposing Xyro.

 

[kailo34ce]

I don't think planking exploits a major flaw in Brawl.
It exploits a flaw in the tournament ruleset.

Take the timer off. Then what?

Of course, we can't do that, because then tournaments would take forever.

huh i meant the fact that you have so many invincible frames after a ledge grab..

when i think of planking thats what comes to my mind personally...i know its only part of it..but i figured thats the source

 

[Espy Rose]

Ok listen, here are two problems with this rule:

1. If people start to plank later on in the match, they can do it non stop and still be under 70. They can still do this if you pick 50/40/even 30.

2. If you pick a number, there's no stopping someone from doing it until they reach that number, hence you pick 70 they can just do it for 60-69 and still be ok.

Now, while I am an advocate of camping with Wario lol, I am not endorsing Planking myself. I think that it kills the game and boils it down into MK dittos or something possibly like MK vs G&W. I'm just being realistic with this rule you are proposing.

1. That's fine. The rule isn't trying to outright ban planking. It's trying to discourage it. Besides, the person trying to plank will be more troubled with trying to keep count of edgegrabs and deal with the opponent at the same time.

2. True, but once they pass that number, all the opponent has to do is kill the clock.

---

It works both ways. You plank too early and reach the max, then the other person can plank you til you lose.

There is, however, a problem if you decide to plank late...not sure how to get passed that one. But it does assume that they were fighting you earlier...which means that the rule affected them since they didn't want to plank too early.

It forces people who'd plank all match to limit their planking. While not outright banning the style because of how subjective the problem is, this rule forces them to work around the clock.

Then again, whatever happens, I don't care too much.

 

[Xyro77]

I don't think planking exploits a major flaw in Brawl.
It exploits a flaw in the tournament ruleset.

Take the timer off. Then what?

Of course, we can't do that, because then tournaments would take forever.

trust me. if timers were off. matches would last 30mins. if a plainker wants to run the timer, they will if you turn clock off they will do it untill the foe decides to quit. the rules sets are fine. if we banned meta things would be fixed(however, i cant really do that).

Ok listen, here are two problems with this rule:

1. If people start to plank later on in the match, they can do it non stop and still be under 70. They can still do this if you pick 50/40/even 30.

2. If you pick a number, there's no stopping someone from doing it until they reach that number, hence you pick 70 they can just do it for 60-69 and still be ok.

Now, while I am an advocate of camping with Wario lol, I am not endorsing Planking myself. I think that it kills the game and boils it down into MK dittos or something possibly like MK vs G&W. I'm just being realistic with this rule you are proposing Xyro.

few things.

1. if they start plainking later on in a match, thats fine i guess because it gives a chance for the other player to learn to kill early.

2. FORCE them to grab that one last time. it wont be hard if you block every other opton. and nonestly, i dont know one person who will be able to keep count of all thier ledge grabs during a whole match.

3. This rule could be only attached to metaknight(yea yea it seems unfair) but he is basicly the ONLY character that can plaink and cant be dealt with, so why punish ALL the other characters with this rules who ALREADY cant CP him or have an advantage on him.


again, these are just ideas, im thinking.

 

[The MC Clusky]

All this talk about stalling is silly.

What is camping? Staying away from your opponent trying to force him to approach and giving you the opportunity to read his moves and thus be able to get him in a weaker position.

Or staying away because you are currently winning.

What is stalling? When your position/tactic has no proven counter. This would include stalls that freeze opponents or places an opponent can not reach at all or without being wide open.

If people play gay GET OVER IT, don't try to make rules to appease people that don't like certain styles of play.

What's the point of a tournament if you're trying to tell everyone how to play?

If the best way to win the game is playing gay....... well maybe you should play a different game if it bothers you so much instead of trying to fix it with these open ended rules that always have flaws or loopholes in them.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

How about the time limit gets changed to 5 min? >_>

 

[Xyro77]

All this talk about stalling is silly.

What is camping? Staying away from your opponent trying to force him to approach and giving you the opportunity to read his moves and thus be able to get him in a weaker position.

Or staying away because you are currently winning.

What is stalling? When your position/tactic has no proven counter. This would include stalls that freeze opponents or places an opponent can not reach at all or without being wide open.

If people play gay GET OVER IT, don't try to make rules to appease people that don't like certain styles of play.

What's the point of a tournament if you're trying to tell everyone how to play?

If the best way to win the game is playing gay....... well maybe you should play a different game if it bothers you so much instead of trying to fix it with these open ended rules that always have flaws or loopholes in them.

*takes KM's comment*

*poops on it*









To everybody else: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6yShu3mHp0&fmt=18


I can feel it coming over me
I feel it all around me
I've been waiting for this moment all my life it's my destiny
There's a fire deep inside of me
it's waiting to come out now
no matter what, no matter how, I know I'll make it through somehow
cuz when the road feels too long
Ill still be holding on
I'm gonna keep on going, I know I'll be strong
Indestructible
I wont let nobody break me down
Indestructible
nothings gonna stop me now
Indestructible
gonna gonna make gonna keep on going
Indestructible
the last man standing
I'm ready for whatever
I'm never giving up
nothing can break my spirit
cuz it's indestructible
can't explain it, it's incredible
the strength I feel inside me
nothing is impossible
I know I'll find my way
through a storm through the darkest night
whatever comes it's alright
Not gonna turn around I'm ready, for the future now
and when the road feels too long
I'll still be holding on
I'm gonna keep on going, I know I'll be strong
Indestructible
I wont let nobody break me down
Indestructible
nothings gonna stop me now
Indestructible
gonna gonna make gonna keep on going
Indestructible
the last man standing
I'm ready for whatever
I'm never giving up
nothing can break my spirit
cuz it's indestructible
nothing is impossible
if you really want it
and I really want it
not gonna stop, no matter what, no
yeah this time, nothing can hold me back, no
nothing can break me down, my spirit's indestructible
Indestructible
I wont let nobody break me down
Indestructible
nothings gonna stop me now
Indestructible
gonna gonna make gonna keep on going
Indestructible
the last man standing
Indestructible
I wont let nobody break me down
Indestructible
nothings gonna stop me now
Indestructible
gonna gonna make gonna keep on going
Indestructible
the last man standing



I love this game and i love guile and i love this song and i love plainking and i love metaknight and i love people cry and being babies and i love to eat pizza

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

you are the biggest hypocrite lol

 

[Magitek_Knight]

great song xyro and game.... epic!!!

 

[Xyro77]

you are the biggest hypocrite lol

I can feel it coming over me
I feel it all around me
I've been waiting for this moment all my life it's my destiny
There's a fire deep inside of me
it's waiting to come out now
no matter what, no matter how, I know I'll make it through somehow
cuz when the road feels too long
Ill still be holding on
I'm gonna keep on going, I know I'll be strong
Indestructible
I wont let nobody break me down
Indestructible
nothings gonna stop me now
Indestructible
gonna gonna make gonna keep on going
Indestructible
the last man standing
I'm ready for whatever
I'm never giving up
nothing can break my spirit
cuz it's indestructible
can't explain it, it's incredible
the strength I feel inside me
nothing is impossible
I know I'll find my way
through a storm through the darkest night
whatever comes it's alright
Not gonna turn around I'm ready, for the future now
and when the road feels too long
I'll still be holding on
I'm gonna keep on going, I know I'll be strong
Indestructible
I wont let nobody break me down
Indestructible
nothings gonna stop me now
Indestructible
gonna gonna make gonna keep on going
Indestructible
the last man standing
I'm ready for whatever
I'm never giving up
nothing can break my spirit
cuz it's indestructible
nothing is impossible
if you really want it
and I really want it
not gonna stop, no matter what, no
yeah this time, nothing can hold me back, no
nothing can break me down, my spirit's indestructible
Indestructible
I wont let nobody break me down
Indestructible
nothings gonna stop me now
Indestructible
gonna gonna make gonna keep on going
Indestructible
the last man standing
Indestructible
I wont let nobody break me down
Indestructible
nothings gonna stop me now
Indestructible
gonna gonna make gonna keep on going
Indestructible
the last man standing

 

[kailo34ce]

no items ,fox only ,final destination would take care of this stalling business

ill be on the stage waiting to fight

EDIT:
those lyrics make think of a woman building a boat

and indestructable boat

 

[Xyro77]

no Items ,fox Only ,final Destination Would Take Care Of This Stalling Business

Ill Be On The Stage Waiting To Fight

Edit:
Those Lyrics Make Think Of A Woman Building A Boat

And Indestructable Boat

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[d4bA]

50 ledge grabs sounds awesome.

And wario running around air dodging may be gay...but it's not stalling.

 

[kailo34ce]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when i come over im going to sleep..

me sleepy...then brawl later..

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

50 ledge grabs sounds awesome.

And wario running around air dodging may be gay...but it's not stalling.

depending on the character you are using it can be >_>

but its still gay

 

[furiousduffmanx]

Man, why do people find this new rule so hard to understand?

I'm indifferent towards it. I don't mind if it's implemented into the tournaments either.

70 edgegrabs equates to appromixately 1 grab every 6.9 seconds.
How unlikely is that to happen if the person is deliberately trying NOT to plank?

And about people needing 70 edgegrabs for recovery...
Just play a match with someone, like usual. I guarantee you probably won't even break 30 without intentionally grabbing the edge often.

And if you're REALLY getting knocked off the level so many times that you grab it 70 times in a match, then you probably deserve to lose.

Besides, doesn't the rule only apply to matches in which the clock expires?

It punishes unwary plankers, and encourages actual "fighting" in the game. Nothing wrong with this rule, really.

Out of all replies fo this topic, i believe this one sounds a bit more logical.
Xyro: i think 70 i way too much too. 50 Ledge grabs sounds more than enough for any character.

 

[RT]

So, to anyone going to Beaumont tomorrow, if I do show up, feel free to record as many vids with my recording setup. Just don't hog it to yourself, or I will go ahead and delete ALL of the vids you record, lol.

 

[kailo34ce]

rocket trainer:

i think a priority is getting more vids for the ultimaterazer is inhuman thread

=]