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Houston Smash Ultimate Thread

RunC.T.

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So I'm a little confused... what's wrong with learning new mechanics, ideas, and possibilities?

if I recall correctly, alot of us brawl gens came from melee, and that was a huge switch,but we stuck with it and learned.

smash 4 has a few big tweaks, so I'm sure the same will happen right? we just adapt to gameplay...right?
 

Xyro77

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I don't think anyone here truly thinks this game is bad. How could we make a truly legit decision based off of 1 month of low level play being played on a terrible handheld?

That's the reason why I say "I hope the wiiU is better" and that's why I say "I will never do 2 stocks" and that's why I've never banned custom moves. It's to early to jump to conclusions and its WAY to early to change status quo ( 3 stocks). I'm giving this game a chance.
 
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gunterrsmash01

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Of course the complaining is gonna be the same as the melee to brawl complaints. This game is pretty much LIKE brawl, lol. We are complaining about the same stupid mechanics like rolling and camping. I just hope the characters are more balanced this time around. That can really offset the negatives of the game.

Also from a casual perspective, this game is an absolute success. This will be the most successful smash game in terms of bringing in casual players. (obvious)

Even though not the best competitively, I still think it's really cool to see smash go portable and they did a pretty good job of porting it.
 
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Xyro77

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Ozz, these are BRAWL players complaining about smash 4. This is their first time out living a game and seeing a new generation come in. They are experiencing what I have long ago. It's completely normal. What's not normal is making stupid comments like "do 2 stocks" based off of a terrible handheld port of smash. Wait til wiiu version (tournament standard) and THEN let's make changes.


Edit: MELEE players will always comain about anything not MELEE.
 
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alex mora

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Also Flip has diddy's up b recovery been nerfed? I have seen anyone use it as well as say Brawl Diddy or even PM diddy. It seems way too out of control to be used from below anymore.
 

TheJerm

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I'd say brawl should be 2 stocks. Just realized that way too late in the game to try and push that
 

RT

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I wonder if MegaMan will actually blink in the Wii U version.

I guess the 3DS couldn't handle all the processing power required.
 

Trela

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I think I'm just a little paranoid about the future of Smash 4 and what it could become already, despite how much little time the game's actually been out for. Some of those matches at that tournament were pretty painful to watch, and that was just our first tournament we've been to so far....

And maybe 2 stocks isn't even the answer, I don't know. Let's just not let Brawl happen again.......PLEASE.

But yeah, WiiU version it is. I think all this hate for the 3DS version is starting to get to me, fuuuuuuuu-
 
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alex mora

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Pretty much this, unfortunately people won't stop and will make outrageous claims. I can see this being very discouraging for newer players
All im saying is give the game a little time to develop. Not every game will develop a meta within weeks. Im hopeful for Smash 4 since it is everything that we wanted with brawl but with none of what made brawl bad. I can't wait for the Wii U version. Still gonna play 3ds though just cause its awesome to play smash at stop lights.
 

RT

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I think I'm just a little paranoid about the future of Smash 4 and what it could become already, despite how much little time the game's actually been out for. Some of those matches at that tournament were pretty painful to watch, and that was just our first tournament we've been to so far....

And maybe 2 stocks isn't even the answer, I don't know. Let's just not let Brawl happen again.......PLEASE.
The game is only as boring as the people who decide to play it in a boring fashion.

As seen in that example Facebook post, people already have their mind dead set on making the game boring and not fun. Instead of...you know, learning to PLAY the game and get better. This is what poisons the meta.
 
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TheJerm

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Unfortunately, I dont see too many ways this game, even the wiiu version, can escape the brawl fate. Naturally, competitive players worry more about the best options to win and not the options of traditional fun fighting each other.
Sad thing is, the players who like to actually fight each other over the players that dance around each other and play it safe usually do and play better than the ladder. Most of the top brawl players had a semi aggressive style at least. Or was pretty aggressive, like the ec players. ADHD, Nairo, Anti, etc. Even tx's better players like Trela and Espy. But are forced to slow their game down and play at a boring pace to beat higher tier characters and players who hit and run. The long, drawn out, uninteresting matches I think is what made brawl boring for alot of people. Seemed like it was all about who wanted it more, and who would do whatever it takes to win. Which again, is expected from competitive play. The options for that in this game are just not that interesting imo.
Thats my reasoning for trying two stocks. If you do decide to play "gay" like allan playing mainly the ledge with samus because he felt thats all his character can could do, it'll be for a less amount of time and shouldnt be as exhausting
 

Fliphopper

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Also Flip has diddy's up b recovery been nerfed? I have seen anyone use it as well as say Brawl Diddy or even PM diddy. It seems way too out of control to be used from below anymore.
Vertical distance is nerfed to a degree. You can't just press up b and expect to hit the ledge from like how Brawl. It'll take time to understand how much charge you need. As RT pointed out, momentum affects your up B, so if you're trying to UP B after being in tumble animation, you'll charge will falling down. Smash Side B helps a lot with the recovery issues. When the Wii U comes out, I have to figure out how to angle my Up B to make sure I can grab the ledge and not explode.

With the 2 vs 3 stock debate goes. You can watch me vs Jerm. It seemed exactly like a BRAWL match with a Smash 4 skin. New mechanics couldn't save it. At least it wouldn't go to 8 minutes if we did 2 stocks.
 

alex mora

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Vertical distance is nerfed to a degree. You can't just press up b and expect to hit the ledge from like how Brawl. It'll take time to understand how much charge you need. As RT pointed out, momentum affects your up B, so if you're trying to UP B after being in tumble animation, you'll charge will falling down. Smash Side B helps a lot with the recovery issues. When the Wii U comes out, I have to figure out how to angle my Up B to make sure I can grab the ledge and not explode.

With the 2 vs 3 stock debate goes. You can watch me vs Jerm. It seemed exactly like a BRAWL match with a Smash 4 skin. New mechanics couldn't save it. At least it wouldn't go to 8 minutes if we did 2 stocks.
Ah ok. I was playing a diddy this weekend and i dair'd off stage with yoshi and he tried to up b after i got him and he just fell through the blastzone. I have the video. ill post it. it just threw me off guard. Maybe ive played too many PM diddy aka Deep Kong
 

Fliphopper

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So in that case, his momentum pushed him down when he tried to UP B so it was a death if he didn't have a jump to remove the momentum.
 

RT

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The physics of the game are very wonky to say the least. It'll be a while before all of it is understood, but you'll eventually start seeing weird Brawl-like stuff if you are observant.
 

z00ted

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Off topic, but is Illmatic bashing on Skyward Swords best dungeon the Sandship, or did he mean the deserted hub world Skyloft and such?

Honestly and truly, I 100% SS about 2 years ago almost and 100% WW on gamecube 3 weeks ago maybe and already possibly 70% done with WW HD. I prefer the empty but incredibly smaller with no **** to do Skyward Sword hubworld with one of the comfiest places to be on (skyloft) compared to the huge as **** Great ****ing Sea with tiny islands that don't even matter outside of treasure charts (those ****ty reefs) or just those islands you go too once for a heart piece then never go too again.

Even with HD improving **** with Cruise actually being fast instead of moving slowly than a sloth, a twig no longer pushing you off the boat, and the swift sail. (which you have to be lucky with RNG to win at the auction, took 4th time. no big deal but still) I still prefer only taking 3 minutes to go from one end of skyloft to the opposite side while Gamecube would take prolly 15 minutes and Swiftsail 8 or so.
I was talking about like the DESERT area before you went into the actual dungeon on Skyward Sword. Where you have to repeatedly jump on the shells of those crawfish-esque enemies after expoding them w/ a bomb in order to get across the quicksand. I've never been so bored in my entire life playing a video game. That type of repeated A -> B action sequencing, "dousing", and a ton of other hold my hand while I cross the street type of design in Zelda games shouldn't ever be permitted in lol. So excited to hear that the new Zelda is open-world. Fi was so annoying lmao like why do we even have the option to get hints in a puzzle game INSTANTLY w/ no repercussions? At least take 200 rupees or something : (

Totally agree w/ you on the hubworld for Skyward sword though. That was outright incredible. The first hour or two of that game was probably some of the best pacing I've ever experienced. Set everything up perfectly for what to follow but... lol the game started treating us like we just got out of kindergarten. Hubworld was perfect though on size/comfortableness and character development.

Also just to chime in on what's being discussed atm (Smash 4's depth etc.) I wanna say that lmao of course I love Smash 4 and I'm definitely going to continue to give it a shot so I can wait and see how it develops. Xyro's spot on w/ describing how I feel about the switches from Brawl to Smash 4 and how it compares to Melee it's just that I think I was expecting something completely different and I feel jipped in a way from that, you know? The game feels life-less because it just has 20% new life (being generous) when compared to Brawl which became life-less to me (competitively) near the end of it's metagame. That's basically all that it is (imo), to answer your question, Run CT. It's not going to be about "adapting" to new mechanics in Smash 4 or looking for a new perspective on how to approach said changes in the engine because all of us honestly already know how to abuse and exploit them. Melee got a complete engine overhaul from it's game to Brawl. And the same goes from 64 to Melee. Here? HELL NO. The question that arises is how long can we try to play this game in a fun and competitive-friendly manner until players just give up and go right back to how we KNOW it will be played. Impending doom just this time without a tornado, sorta sad.

Illmatic is megaman still worst in game?
Nah. I don't think Megaman's the worst in the game anymore, Zoribrawl. It's really hard to tell who is but he's definitely got some nifty tools. People are gonna counterpick him hard though, I think he needs a good secondary to hold up in tournament.

Also also I don't mean to be rude but none of my claims come across as outrageous (imo) lol. Like, discussing Smash here in the Houston thread is going to happen regardless and this type of stuff won't directly affect players who want to enter a Smash tournament to see what it's all about either because they likely won't possess the knowledge or experience to understand any of this in the first place. If anything, this type of discussion is a GOOD thing so we can be efficient and cautious about our decisions now so poor choices don't trip up and avalanche into a Brawl disaster in this game's future. Two stocks seems to be on the table at the moment (despite Allan saying he'll never switch), but the custom move and stage legality debates earlier were really good.
 
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Zori

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My point is that I don't understand why you are so insistent on shoving your opinion down people's throats. You literally said "mega man sucks" (using this example while we are on topic) for 3 hours at austins house when the game had been out for what like 2 days?

There is nothing productive from random opinions and -1 day tier list, if creating good conversation is your intention then your going the wrong way about it imo

Like I said, my major compliant is that newer players will read this thread and think they are lesser because of walls of text saying the game won't succeed. Let's just play for now and analyze later
 
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z00ted

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"Megaman sucks" was blatant trolling. Surprised you didn't pick that up seeing as how you're Zoribrawl.

I don't shove my opinion down people's throats I'm just direct and honest about what I think lol. I've made like maybe four or so posts in the Houston thread within the last three weeks regarding Smash 4 and people blow up then think that I hate everything that breathes. No.. I'm just trying to give an honest and thorough/detailed (at least, attempted) explanation on what I've picked up. People seriously get the wrong impression because of "length" (I guess _?_). I'm a vocal person and my opinion ALWAYS is changing because I like to look at things from various perspectives, it's just who I am and I do the same thing w/ music or pretty much anything I enjoy. If I love something I'll give it just as much of a post, and in ninety percent of cases likely even more. And lmao @ random opinions, we'll progress nowhere and everyone's opinion would be random if you're gonna go by that logic. Communication is definitely productive. The -1 Day Tier list was for fun and it was pretty accurate based off of what I've been seeing. People flipping out over that seriously need to chill out / stop being hypocritical and just "play the game" ; - )

Regarding people scared by walls of text and their inferiority complex, LOL they'll suck and quit quickly anyways.

I will NEVER say MegaMan sucks
Megaman sucks.
 
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RT

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I will NEVER be as legendary as THE FALCHION BLADE
 

Xyro77

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I'm prob just gonna do shulk like I originally wanted. I don't care if I'm dog **** at the game compared to the other SHULK nerds. I just wanna have fun :(
 

Sync.

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Please two stocks. Complaining is okay but think about new players. Just because this game isn't what you want it to be, don't distort what the game is through exaggeration. That can be misleading/discouraging for people who want others' opinion (lurking new players). I agree with Jerm and Run C.T mainly. This game like every game will eventually boil down to choosing the best options (just so happens, being DEFENSIVE is usually the best options in this and many other competitive games). Just learn what this has to offer and if you don't like it, see ya! I never understood why persisting in doing something you don't enjoy is a thing in this community. Please please 2 stocks eventually Allan. Just consider it. You'll see at TGC (testing needs to be done right?) that this game would be tragic to have at 3 stocks.

Sorry this game wasn't what you guys really wanted, but I think you had unusually high expectations of Sakurai which is definitely not fair. I remember everyone swearing up and down that all they wanted was "something at least better than brawl" but all of a sudden that isn't good enough...
 

Xyro77

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As I've said before. I know this game is better than brawl. It's just not clicking with me. That's on me.
 
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Zano

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I'm prob just gonna do shulk like I originally wanted. I don't care if I'm dog **** at the game compared to the other SHULK nerds. I just wanna have fun :(

to be fair, Trela is the only shulk I've played so far that made me think he wasn't one of the worst characters in the game. It's silly how much further ahead he is even for this early.
 

RT

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It's because Trela isn't pants-on-head dumb. 100% serious.
 

Xyro77

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I'm hyped to see shirtless Shulk nips in HD. They might be better than Falcons metal nips.
 
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RT

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Would you buy his Amiibo if it was the shirtless one?
 

UltimateRazer

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Been at work all day. This thread has been beautiful today. Thank you for the tears everyone.

Anyways, Illmatic I call it whining when you say you'd rather play Brawl MK/Olimar/ICs than smash 4 lmao.

Also, I play aggressive as f in this game. Ask Trela. Or Zori. Or Jerm. Those last 2 camp. Calling you out now. Fish bait sitting back in the water while I side b in EVERY TIME.

 

z00ted

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Metaknight and Ice Climbers are such beautiful characters though : (
and lmao someone play me in smash 4 im trying to get back in this *****
 
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UltimateRazer

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Seriously speaking though, I know this game has it's flaws. But it also has positives and removed many of Brawl's toxic characteristics.

It's literally been like less than 3 weeks since this game has been out in the US. The metagame will change. I don't see this game having a polarizing character selection like MK/ICs. Keep calm and play the game. It really is it's own thing. It's similar to Brawl but still feels different...it feels like Smash 4. There are more offensive options in this game than Brawl. We just need to figure things out. Now 3 stocks vs 2 stocks seems to be the thing to look for. While 2 stocks can go faster...I prefer 3 stocks for adaptation time. You can say "don't be bad and suicide or get bodied" but when it happens to YOU and you feel like you would have won with 3 stocks...el o el.

Tea cup out trick fish slug suk.

PS, 3DS controls really do make the negative thoughts worse. WII U IS COMING.
 
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